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Cannon/Non-Cannon Ships part 2
seamusx447
Member Posts: 63 Arc User
I made a similar post a while ago, so for those who get confused easily, NOT CANON! What I mean by this is basically cannon vs beam loadouts, as well beams on a Defiant Class, cannons on Miranda and so forth.
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Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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As Spiritborn said above, Cannons will give you more damage output but they will also require more piloting skill to use effectively. Using Cannons, especially on larger ships takes some practice along with careful use of gear and traits that make things easier.
Torp and Science Builds done correctly however, currently put them both to shame and I wouldn't recommend either on the Defiant. Just build what you like and don't worry about being 'right,' you can handle any content with either build.
The only difference between a particle beam weapon and a cannon is time versus energy. Beam weapons fire at or near the speed of light. The object being targeted should not be able to dodge it. Canons, missiles, and torpedoes all take time to reach their target... unless you are Professor Soran and can fire your missile obviously faster than the speed of light into the sun. These slower objects can be dodged and I would expect counter measures (chaff) is going to make tracking hopeless. The movies (take your pick) show the torpedo moving through the vacuum of space slower than I would expect. The battle between Kahn and Kirk in the nebula has them fighting only a few thousand kilometers of each other. Yet we know objects outside the massive pull of gravity can get 25,000 km per hour without issue. This would mean any object fired at another object would act like a beam weapon at such near distance.
I will now return you to the wonderful world of fiction, try not to think too much about the science, just enjoy the show.
aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
either to conquer or to die for the Empire
Weapon loadouts should be whatever the player flying the ship finds most enjoyable.
We can advise people based on what they ask for, but no one has a right to tell anyone else what they should be using.
especially since apart from few exceptions the difference in canon wasn't as strict as in STO and the same emitter could fire beams, bolts or something between even within the same episode some times.
We know for a fact that phaser cannon technology exists as it was used in the Defiant-class and Peragrine fighters (there along with beam tech so it is clear those are not mutually exclusive either).
Honestly due to the vast amount of ships we've never seen fire on screen (which includes the California-class IIRC) it's safe to say that as far as weapon loadouts go canon says "I dunno".
Also those dual banks are exclusive to ENT/DSC/TOS-era, TNG and onward they used strips and even then they had single mounts as well.
> I don't like how Beam Banks in STO all face forward. Canon ships would have one in each direction, giving 360 degree coverage. Just saying.
Give beam arrays a chance then. They cover 250 degree, Omni even 360.
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Honestly, Front Facing beam builds using Dual Beam Banks have little use outside of maybe a specialized overload build. For must users in most cases, Dual Beam Banks should be avoided. It's not that they don't work, it's just that if you're going to limit yourself to front facing, you will get far better results with Cannons and if you like Beams, you usually get better results broadsiding single beams in a FAW setup. DBB's aren't in the best place in this game.
In either situation, from a damage perspective Cannons are superior. DBB's aren't 'bad' per say, their big challenge is that they require the same trade off as Dual Cannons while doing less damage. Outside of personal preference or if you are specifically doing an Overload build there is just no reason to use them. The ship layout doesn't matter, 1/1 DBB's are inferior to the Cannons you would put in that same slot.
Before I get yelled at by the usual forumites, I am not calling anyone using DBB's 'bad' or saying they are 'wrong' to use. I am just explaining that given a choice and being that both have the same trade offs with less upside, most will pick the Cannons. I have a character that runs DBB's just because it was what I wanted to do. It works just fine, just not as good as if I swapped the DBB's for Cannons.
Um.. ok. I can't think of anything with Broadsiding that requires you to stay on the move, I prefer to play it that way, but you can certainly charge in, stop and blast if that's what you're into. Just move out when it gets too hot. I have never seen the enemy AI use re-direct shields, but either way, they blow up too quickly for that to even matter.
I use Beams on my Discovery Connie for the exact same reason.
A phaser cannon defiant and a phaser beam discoprise are probably even the strongest options one can follow on those ships.
Even the occasional torp on a canon ship is hardly a performance hurter nowadays thanks to the respective traits and sets we have available.
Cryptic did a sound job there.
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Anyone trying to do a particular weapon loadout for whatever reason and wanting to make it as effective as possible should go over to the Shipyard forum and ask for more help there. While there is general wisdom that says use only beams or only cannons, that is because it is simple to do and very hard to get wrong for people who don't understand the intricacies of the game well.
Don't get me wrong, some Feds are canon cannons and some Klingons are non canon cannon so you can mix it up.
Either way. I personally enjoy DBBs because of the extra angle to fire with them and going BO. On the right ships it's awesome (ie ships like the Husnock etc.)
> > @seamusx447 said:
> > I don't like how Beam Banks in STO all face forward. Canon ships would have one in each direction, giving 360 degree coverage. Just saying.
>
>
> Give beam arrays a chance then. They cover 250 degree, Omni even 360.
I am very accustomed to BeamArrays, & Omnis are my favorite beam weapon. I typically use 2 Beam Arrays & 2 torpedos fore, & aft when applicable. I was just putting it out there that they are far from canonical. I'd have 4 Omnis & 3-4 torpedos if I could get more decent Omnis (anyone know of any specific mission that drops them? Thanks in advance).
Lastly, for the record, (& probably should have posted this in the original) this discussion is for me & others to see what is out there. As much as I appreciate the support, please refrain from the "you are free to use what you want" stuff. Each individual poster is allowed to be as selfish as they want with their own ideas/preferences. I play on Xbox & PC, & have anywhere between 5-12 captains on each, deleted 7 or 8 captains before getting my first T5-U because I couldn't advanced through the missions, & I have created others that I use solely to replay the tutorials & then delete.
> Broadsiding has its own shortcomings -- because you are constantly on the move, orbiting around your target, your damage is shifting from one shield facing to another as well. But most enemy ships are going to redirect their shield power towards your direction regardless, or your damage goes right through the shields, making them moot.
This is the one reason I hate broadsiding. To maintain it, you must be constantly circling with your target. Which is pointless if they are faster than you.
though beams on a Defiant is canon (it's been shown to have single beam at the center structure) it is more famous for using cannons.
Now I got nothing against people wanting to use canon builds if that's what they want to do, but insisting that everyone does so is a whole another deal though.
Yeah I was referring to warmonger's comment with that line.
As for the Defiant's beam array yeah I'm guessing it was secondary weapon meant mostly against shuttles, fighters or similar small and fast targets the Defiant wouldn't reliably engage with its main battery, which would explain why it was used so rarely as the Defiant class tended to engage ships bigger then itself or at smallest in the same size range as the Defiant class.
broadsiding is the easy way to have an effective build (and not really expensive), but this way of playing can become boring very quickly. Cannon builds are more funny, but like you said, it needs good piloting skills.
Currently, I have more fun with sci builds, this is why I change some of my tac-captains into sci-captains. But a science build is very very expensive.
> broadsiding is the easy way to have an effective build (and not really expensive), but this way of playing can become boring very quickly. Cannon builds are more funny, but like you said, it needs good piloting skills.
>
> Currently, I have more fun with sci builds, this is why I change some of my tac-captains into sci-captains. But a science build is very very expensive.
I rarely use Tac as Eng & Sci ground builds are way better imo. Everything I need Tac-wise I get from my Boffs, even if I have to purchase/research the manuals.
I say use what you want because everything works. Some may take more effort or particular traits to make them work very well, of course. If you want to use some particular build but struggle with making it work, again, people can help with the build over in the Shipyard forum.
> But a science build is very very expensive.
I think many percept it that way because one kind of starts from scratch when moving from an DEW build to EPG. Not much one can re-use.
Aside from that EPG is not more less expensive than anything else in game. If one has access to past event stuff I’d even consider it cheaper or less of an effort thingy to make a budget EPG build that works great. There are only few things that cost a lot but they are by no means required to get your build to highly impactful levels. I got 3 EPG toons by now, not all of them cost the world.
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