I could be wrong but I don't remember singularity cores being mentioned until TNG.
Also, the whole "Klingons gave the Romulans D7s" was never mentioned until TNG either (it was their way of retconning it to make sense). Which is completely fine by me. My only point is, because of what I just said, there probably wouldn't have been any comment on whether those KDF>ROM D7's had singularity cores(or not) prior to TNG either.
I don't think singularity cores were talked about in canon until TNG, and even then I think some Romulan ships were said to have had warp cores before one particular episode that dealt with a singularity core. In the original version of The Enterprise Incident, all the Romulan ships were D7s. The remastered version changed one to a bird of prey, and also added the bird marking to the underside of the D7s. So in TOS/TNG canon Star Trek we don't know that singularity cores were used by Romulans in the TOS era at all. (There might be stuff in Disco/Picard I don't know about, but if there is, I don't want to know any spoilers.) At least one Romulan Science Vessel may have been equipped with a warp core instead of a singularity core in the TNG era. (TNG epidode "The Next Phase")
Now here in STO we have the T'Liss using a singularity core, so it's possible the Romulans could have put singularity cores into their Klingon built D7s. On the other hand, we also have a couple future mirror universe Romulan ships (29th Century) without cloaks and with warp cores. (R'Mor/Sui'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, and Talvath/Tal'aura.)
They had the chance to add the ENT Battlecruiser as skin (the one fron the Augment Storyline) for the Vor'cha AND the D7 but instead they chose to o add some non-canon Qo'nos One skins by adding some decoration pieces to the normal skins
They had the chance to add the ENT Battlecruiser as skin (the one fron the Augment Storyline) for the Vor'cha AND the D7 but instead they chose to o add some non-canon Qo'nos One skins by adding some decoration pieces to the normal skins
Since when is TNG and ST6 The Undiscovered Country "non-canon?"
The Gorkon D7 looks pretty spot on to me. The Vor'cha definitely is an invention though.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Some have said they don't like the Intel Spec, yet it's still very close to the seating shown here, even if not identical yet look what I identified in blue below however:
What I would have liked to see them do is swap the ships Miracle Worker and Intel specs, make it a full MW ship with an Intel secondary, that' is an extremely powerful combination (it's one of the things that makes the Vaadwaur Juggernaut so strong) and would have helped supplement the missing hangar bays. The game has an abundance of Intel ships as it is, another full MW spec would have been nice here.
Still that comment above is very fair criticism, while also pointing out it's not too shabby either.
I can't say if having Intel Commander, and Miracle Worker Lt Cmdr will make a great difference or not, perhaps this was intentional however because Vaadwaur don't have Battle Cloak either! It may not be quite the same, but it has other similar higher Hull & Shield Modifiers as the Juggernaut, and also has twice the turn rate of 12 not 6. So individuals just need to decide if they like the Ship, and consider what's offered...
*sigh*
This is clearly a good ship, even if it's not the Kelvin or Disco variant.
Not (too) shabby definition is - fairly good or quite good. For how good however, I guess we'll have to wait...
Some may say that the addition of a Romulan skin makes this a Romulan ship.
I don't care.
I don't consider it a Romulan ship because it is fundamentally of Klingon design. I have no interest in it.
Some may say that the addition of a Romulan skin makes this a Romulan ship.
I don't care.
I don't consider it a Romulan ship because it is fundamentally of Klingon design. I have no interest in it.
There is nothing wrong with that. If you buy the ship, you don't have to use that skin. If people always got their wish about certain ships not being in the game, we wouldn't have very many, if any ships to fly at all. You don't have to like something for someone else to enjoy it. Everyone should have all of the ships they want to fly.
I don't think singularity cores were talked about in canon until TNG, and even then I think some Romulan ships were said to have had warp cores before one particular episode that dealt with a singularity core. In the original version of The Enterprise Incident, all the Romulan ships were D7s. The remastered version changed one to a bird of prey, and also added the bird marking to the underside of the D7s. So in TOS/TNG canon Star Trek we don't know that singularity cores were used by Romulans in the TOS era at all. (There might be stuff in Disco/Picard I don't know about, but if there is, I don't want to know any spoilers.) At least one Romulan Science Vessel may have been equipped with a warp core instead of a singularity core in the TNG era. (TNG epidode "The Next Phase")
Now here in STO we have the T'Liss using a singularity core, so it's possible the Romulans could have put singularity cores into their Klingon built D7s. On the other hand, we also have a couple future mirror universe Romulan ships (29th Century) without cloaks and with warp cores. (R'Mor/Sui'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, and Talvath/Tal'aura.)
I think the problem talking about Romulans and warp cores is the fact that anything that lets a ship achieve warp travel is a warp core. Whether it is matter/antimatter or singularity or hamsters and chewing gum, if it lets a ship go to warp, it is fair to call it a warp core. Starfleet has only ever used M/AM cores, so there was never a need to differentiate it from any other warp core.
This is much the same thing that we have today if someone says "google it" doesn't literally mean use google to search, as any search engine can work, often better than google. But because google is so ubiquitous it has just become a word to describe internet search even if it doesn't specifically mean searching with Google search engine.
I'd say its only safe to assume that a warp core is something that produces enough power to generate a warp bubble, but that power could come from any number of sources.
Like many other veteran players in the game I made a Klingon alt during the recruitment event even though I already had other alts of the same faction. I've enjoyed the event overall and some of the rewards have been quite nice. I would have been happy to support the game by purchasing the discussed bundle but for me it's just not worth the money. Sixty dollars for one pixel ship is just too much. The rest of the bundle, for me at least, is filler and unneeded.
I'm enjoying reading all of the commentary about ship skins, warp cores, and first appearances and so forth; it's both entertaining and informative in some cases. For me, and I suspect others, the price for the bundle just seems a tad too high. Perhaps if they gave players the options of actually picking what they wanted and adjusting the price as they do, like ordering options for a car at a dealership, I and others might be more inclined to make the purchase. Regardless, thank you to the players buying this bundle and keeping the lights on as it were.
Slainte.
RIP (2022) : Officer Wilbert Mota, Corporal Charles Galloway, Detective Jason Rivera, Officer Fernando
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
For those continually stating that Romulans were using Klingon ships -
SPOCK: Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.
Design not ships. If you watched the episode, you'd know that interiors ( lighting, corridors, Cloak Room, etc.) were different.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Minns, did we see a KDF ship interior at all in TOS? I am pretty sure we did not.
There is a red wall on the view screen in Elaan of Troyius. If that is what you are referring too, than it is a very small sample.
The Enterprise incident interior was just a redress of the Enterprise. Presumably—if TOS lasted longer a KDF ship would probably look like a redressed Enterprise too.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I think the problem talking about Romulans and warp cores is the fact that anything that lets a ship achieve warp travel is a warp core. Whether it is matter/antimatter or singularity or hamsters and chewing gum, if it lets a ship go to warp, it is fair to call it a warp core. Starfleet has only ever used M/AM cores, so there was never a need to differentiate it from any other warp core.
...
I'd say its only safe to assume that a warp core is something that produces enough power to generate a warp bubble, but that power could come from any number of sources.
I think it's 'fair' to call something a Warp Core, regardless if the source is M/AM or Singularity.
Thank you giving credit to the Hamsters and their chewing gum, still they oversee Starfleet Engineers developing new Core's.
╘ hamsters are a family in our species, to think all the things Human's don't give us credit for...
> @qultuq said: > Lt. Minns, did we see a KDF ship interior at all in TOS? I am pretty sure we did not. > > There is a red wall on the view screen in Elaan of Troyius. If that is what you are referring too, than it is a very small sample. > > The Enterprise incident interior was just a redress of the Enterprise. Presumably—if TOS lasted longer a KDF ship would probably look like a redressed Enterprise too.
Pending how you treat TAS, you get a few brief looks there. First ine that comes to mind for me is More Tribbles, More Troubles" with the Klingons buried in a pile of Tribbles on their ship that we see a little bit of.
For those continually stating that Romulans were using Klingon ships -
SPOCK: Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.
Design not ships. If you watched the episode, you'd know that interiors ( lighting, corridors, Cloak Room, etc.) were different.
You do have a point as far as design vs ship, I have no doubt the Romulan D7 internals were different then their KDF counterparts. On the other hand, I can't really imagine the Romulans refitting their shipyards in order to create hulls designed by the "inferior" Klingon race, I think it's likely they got hulls (possibly new empty ones or possibly retired ships) from the Klingons and put their own internals in. That's just my opinion though.
> @qultuq said:
> Lt. Minns, did we see a KDF ship interior at all in TOS? I am pretty sure we did not.
>
> There is a red wall on the view screen in Elaan of Troyius. If that is what you are referring too, than it is a very small sample.
>
> The Enterprise incident interior was just a redress of the Enterprise. Presumably—if TOS lasted longer a KDF ship would probably look like a redressed Enterprise too.
Pending how you treat TAS, you get a few brief looks there. First ine that comes to mind for me is More Tribbles, More Troubles" with the Klingons buried in a pile of Tribbles on their ship that we see a little bit of.
If they ever create it, they need to add the option to turn on and off piles of Tribbles.
For those continually stating that Romulans were using Klingon ships -
SPOCK: Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.
Design not ships. If you watched the episode, you'd know that interiors ( lighting, corridors, Cloak Room, etc.) were different.
Remodelling a ship's interior is entirely possible, though, if they bought the ships from the Klingons. And if they just licensed or stole the designs and built the ships themselves its still a little silly to not consider them Klingon ships still. Just like when China steals intellectual property from everyone else, its still not their product.
For those continually stating that Romulans were using Klingon ships -
SPOCK: Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.
Design not ships. If you watched the episode, you'd know that interiors ( lighting, corridors, Cloak Room, etc.) were different.
Excellent valid point about the distinction of "design" versus "ship".
Does it automatically exclude the use of any "ship"? No, but it certainly excludes more than the assumption of including the use of a "ship" otherwise it would've been stated differently.
I also, think, there's precedent for such in ST using design features from other cultures & incorporating them while not just using the "ships" or "parts" always.
Such higher-minded discussions won't effect my decision upon buying this bundle or not though. I'm just going to weigh how much use & value I think I'll get out of it.
They had the chance to add the ENT Battlecruiser as skin (the one fron the Augment Storyline) for the Vor'cha AND the D7 but instead they chose to o add some non-canon Qo'nos One skins by adding some decoration pieces to the normal skins
I could be wrong but I don't remember singularity cores being mentioned until TNG.
In TOS, up until the Romulans were shown "using Klingon design" (more a production decision as they just paid for a new filmable ship model and Desilu wanted max ROI) - The Romulan ship 'power source was 'simple impulse'.
It was assumed in TOS nearly every FTL capable species that used physical ships used some sort of Matter/Anti-Matter power generation system. The specifics were left ton the viewer's imagination. Hell, the term 'Warp Core' didn't appear in Star Trek until TNG in 1987. In TOS the main drive was powered by the Ship's "Matter/Anti-Matter Reactor".
Now Berman era Trek has retconned and used the term in ENT, JJ Abrams used in the JJ Verse films - and the current Kurtzman Trek series have continued to use 'Warp Core' <--- and yeah I'm a bit disappointed with that as it just lumps all the various eras together (don't get me started with using the term 'Away Team' in ANY 23c era Trek - "Landing party" was the 23c term - and occasionally even "Shore Party"). "Away Team" is another term the newer Treks just use in any era now too
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I could be wrong but I don't remember singularity cores being mentioned until TNG.
In TOS, up until the Romulans were shown "using Klingon design" (more a production decision as they just paid for a new filmable ship model and Desilu wanted max ROI) - The Romulan ship 'power source was 'simple impulse'.
It was assumed in TOS nearly every FTL capable species that used physical ships used some sort of Matter/Anti-Matter power generation system. The specifics were left ton the viewer's imagination. Hell, the term 'Warp Core' didn't appear in Star Trek until TNG in 1987. In TOS the main drive was powered by the Ship's "Matter/Anti-Matter Reactor".
Now Berman era Trek has retconned and used the term in ENT, JJ Abrams used in the JJ Verse films - and the current Kurtzman Trek series have continued to use 'Warp Core' <--- and yeah I'm a bit disappointed with that as it just lumps all the various eras together (don't get me started with using the term 'Away Team' in ANY 23c era Trek - "Landing party" was the 23c term - and occasionally even "Shore Party"). "Away Team" is another term the newer Treks just use in any era now too
I blame First Contact for creating an alternative reality, Picard crew told the name to Zefram, so in Enterprise that's what they use.. at least, thats what i preffer to think
I could be wrong but I don't remember singularity cores being mentioned until TNG.
Also, the whole "Klingons gave the Romulans D7s" was never mentioned until TNG either (it was their way of retconning it to make sense). Which is completely fine by me. My only point is, because of what I just said, there probably wouldn't have been any comment on whether those KDF>ROM D7's had singularity cores(or not) prior to TNG either.
The Klingons wanted Cloaking; the Romulans wanted Warp Drive. It was a beautiful thing, for a time. But Romulans lack trust. Klingons love War. The hate between those two races flamed on until one day, a Federation starship Captained by a woman protected Klingons from Romulans.
I could be wrong but I don't remember singularity cores being mentioned until TNG.
Also, the whole "Klingons gave the Romulans D7s" was never mentioned until TNG either (it was their way of retconning it to make sense). Which is completely fine by me. My only point is, because of what I just said, there probably wouldn't have been any comment on whether those KDF>ROM D7's had singularity cores(or not) prior to TNG either.
The Klingons wanted Cloaking; the Romulans wanted Warp Drive. It was a beautiful thing, for a time. But Romulans lack trust. Klingons love War. The hate between those two races flamed on until one day, a Federation starship Captained by a woman protected Klingons from Romulans.
Are you saying that the Romulans didn't have warp drive before the D7? I find that hard to believe.
I'm not sure the Romulan's didn't have Warp capabilities myself...
I've often long suspected, the Romulan's likely gave or trade Cloaking technology to the Klingons. We do know it was on the D7 the Romulans had when they were briefly allied with Klingons while using those ships. I think one of the DEVs spoke about that fact on today's Ten Forward, saying when Enterprise came about it changed Cannon a bit claiming they had it earlier...
Still it seems my hopes were realized with the Romulan Skin for the D7, as I eluded to earlier if they might have a warbird on bottom.
Comments
Also, the whole "Klingons gave the Romulans D7s" was never mentioned until TNG either (it was their way of retconning it to make sense). Which is completely fine by me. My only point is, because of what I just said, there probably wouldn't have been any comment on whether those KDF>ROM D7's had singularity cores(or not) prior to TNG either.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Now here in STO we have the T'Liss using a singularity core, so it's possible the Romulans could have put singularity cores into their Klingon built D7s. On the other hand, we also have a couple future mirror universe Romulan ships (29th Century) without cloaks and with warp cores. (R'Mor/Sui'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, and Talvath/Tal'aura.)
Since when is TNG and ST6 The Undiscovered Country "non-canon?"
The Gorkon D7 looks pretty spot on to me. The Vor'cha definitely is an invention though.
Still that comment above is very fair criticism, while also pointing out it's not too shabby either.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Vaadwaur_Miracle_Worker_Juggernaut
I can't say if having Intel Commander, and Miracle Worker Lt Cmdr will make a great difference or not, perhaps this was intentional however because Vaadwaur don't have Battle Cloak either! It may not be quite the same, but it has other similar higher Hull & Shield Modifiers as the Juggernaut, and also has twice the turn rate of 12 not 6. So individuals just need to decide if they like the Ship, and consider what's offered...
*sigh*
This is clearly a good ship, even if it's not the Kelvin or Disco variant.
Not (too) shabby definition is - fairly good or quite good. For how good however, I guess we'll have to wait...
I don't care.
I don't consider it a Romulan ship because it is fundamentally of Klingon design. I have no interest in it.
That's fine.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
There is nothing wrong with that. If you buy the ship, you don't have to use that skin. If people always got their wish about certain ships not being in the game, we wouldn't have very many, if any ships to fly at all. You don't have to like something for someone else to enjoy it. Everyone should have all of the ships they want to fly.
We do NOT have a D5 Battlecruiser
We have a converted freighter.
You seem so obsessed with denying KDF one of the few canon ships we do not yet have.
I think the problem talking about Romulans and warp cores is the fact that anything that lets a ship achieve warp travel is a warp core. Whether it is matter/antimatter or singularity or hamsters and chewing gum, if it lets a ship go to warp, it is fair to call it a warp core. Starfleet has only ever used M/AM cores, so there was never a need to differentiate it from any other warp core.
This is much the same thing that we have today if someone says "google it" doesn't literally mean use google to search, as any search engine can work, often better than google. But because google is so ubiquitous it has just become a word to describe internet search even if it doesn't specifically mean searching with Google search engine.
I'd say its only safe to assume that a warp core is something that produces enough power to generate a warp bubble, but that power could come from any number of sources.
Especially if that Romulan could allay with the Tal'Shiar instead of being a Republic tool.
I'm enjoying reading all of the commentary about ship skins, warp cores, and first appearances and so forth; it's both entertaining and informative in some cases. For me, and I suspect others, the price for the bundle just seems a tad too high. Perhaps if they gave players the options of actually picking what they wanted and adjusting the price as they do, like ordering options for a car at a dealership, I and others might be more inclined to make the purchase. Regardless, thank you to the players buying this bundle and keeping the lights on as it were.
Slainte.
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
SPOCK: Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.
Design not ships. If you watched the episode, you'd know that interiors ( lighting, corridors, Cloak Room, etc.) were different.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There is a red wall on the view screen in Elaan of Troyius. If that is what you are referring too, than it is a very small sample.
The Enterprise incident interior was just a redress of the Enterprise. Presumably—if TOS lasted longer a KDF ship would probably look like a redressed Enterprise too.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I think it's 'fair' to call something a Warp Core, regardless if the source is M/AM or Singularity.
Thank you giving credit to the Hamsters and their chewing gum, still they oversee Starfleet Engineers developing new Core's.
╘ hamsters are a family in our species, to think all the things Human's don't give us credit for...
> Lt. Minns, did we see a KDF ship interior at all in TOS? I am pretty sure we did not.
>
> There is a red wall on the view screen in Elaan of Troyius. If that is what you are referring too, than it is a very small sample.
>
> The Enterprise incident interior was just a redress of the Enterprise. Presumably—if TOS lasted longer a KDF ship would probably look like a redressed Enterprise too.
Pending how you treat TAS, you get a few brief looks there. First ine that comes to mind for me is More Tribbles, More Troubles" with the Klingons buried in a pile of Tribbles on their ship that we see a little bit of.
You do have a point as far as design vs ship, I have no doubt the Romulan D7 internals were different then their KDF counterparts. On the other hand, I can't really imagine the Romulans refitting their shipyards in order to create hulls designed by the "inferior" Klingon race, I think it's likely they got hulls (possibly new empty ones or possibly retired ships) from the Klingons and put their own internals in. That's just my opinion though.
If they ever create it, they need to add the option to turn on and off piles of Tribbles.
Remodelling a ship's interior is entirely possible, though, if they bought the ships from the Klingons. And if they just licensed or stole the designs and built the ships themselves its still a little silly to not consider them Klingon ships still. Just like when China steals intellectual property from everyone else, its still not their product.
Excellent valid point about the distinction of "design" versus "ship".
Does it automatically exclude the use of any "ship"? No, but it certainly excludes more than the assumption of including the use of a "ship" otherwise it would've been stated differently.
I also, think, there's precedent for such in ST using design features from other cultures & incorporating them while not just using the "ships" or "parts" always.
Such higher-minded discussions won't effect my decision upon buying this bundle or not though. I'm just going to weigh how much use & value I think I'll get out of it.
You need to look at the actual model. There is a replica at https://www.kuhnglobal.net/studio-scale-klingon-kronos-one-replica/
In TOS, up until the Romulans were shown "using Klingon design" (more a production decision as they just paid for a new filmable ship model and Desilu wanted max ROI) - The Romulan ship 'power source was 'simple impulse'.
It was assumed in TOS nearly every FTL capable species that used physical ships used some sort of Matter/Anti-Matter power generation system. The specifics were left ton the viewer's imagination. Hell, the term 'Warp Core' didn't appear in Star Trek until TNG in 1987. In TOS the main drive was powered by the Ship's "Matter/Anti-Matter Reactor".
Now Berman era Trek has retconned and used the term in ENT, JJ Abrams used in the JJ Verse films - and the current Kurtzman Trek series have continued to use 'Warp Core' <--- and yeah I'm a bit disappointed with that as it just lumps all the various eras together (don't get me started with using the term 'Away Team' in ANY 23c era Trek - "Landing party" was the 23c term - and occasionally even "Shore Party"). "Away Team" is another term the newer Treks just use in any era now too
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I blame First Contact for creating an alternative reality, Picard crew told the name to Zefram, so in Enterprise that's what they use.. at least, thats what i preffer to think
The Klingons wanted Cloaking; the Romulans wanted Warp Drive. It was a beautiful thing, for a time. But Romulans lack trust. Klingons love War. The hate between those two races flamed on until one day, a Federation starship Captained by a woman protected Klingons from Romulans.
Are you saying that the Romulans didn't have warp drive before the D7? I find that hard to believe.
I've often long suspected, the Romulan's likely gave or trade Cloaking technology to the Klingons. We do know it was on the D7 the Romulans had when they were briefly allied with Klingons while using those ships. I think one of the DEVs spoke about that fact on today's Ten Forward, saying when Enterprise came about it changed Cannon a bit claiming they had it earlier...
Still it seems my hopes were realized with the Romulan Skin for the D7, as I eluded to earlier if they might have a warbird on bottom.
I took a screenshot showing the underside.