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If Cryptic added Boarding Ships, would you be interested?
cbrjwrr
Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
Hypothetical, obviously. At the moment, boarding is basically ignored; it's just a small debuff you clear with Tactical Team and forget about, and players don't use it unless you are ridiculously keen on pet spam or similar.
BUT, lets say it has a complete revamp, using a conversion of the Commando secondary specialisation into a full specialisation. These new Commando ships are inevitably mainly going to be cruiser/carrier types, but I suppose you could also have a "strike team escort" or something, or a tachyon beam focused sci ship.
Supposing that the Commando specialisation was expanded to include space, with new kinds of Commando boff abilities that focus on things like knocking out enemy shields, or adjusting weapon damage to do more damage to shields without bleedthrough, or expands on ramming speed to allow transferring marines - things that aid the goal of being able to use the main Gather Intelligence/Innovation/Inspiration etc. mechanics that enable you to capture enemy NPC vessels.
Once captured, a vessel is treated as a bonus hangar pet until either destroyed or the end of the map, at which point it becomes a pile of Dil, EC, R&D materials or marks, or... whatever suits balancing. Based on it's ranking, so capturing a Dreadnought is worth a lot more than capturing an escort.
Obviously, it won't be a meta specialisation - it takes time to capture a vessel after all, estimating at least a minute, by which time a lot of stuff has been blown up. But, it could be an interesting new playstyle, and one with plenty of onscreen evidence to back it up.
Some basic ideas:
Starfleet:
Galaxy class Commando Cruiser - as documented in Yesterday's Enterprise TNG 3x15, while it isn't Starfleet's main role for the ship, the Galaxy class is able to carry 6000 marines. As well as that, being an Exploration Cruiser with large numbers of research labs and sensor thingys well employed throughout TNGs run for all kinds of weird and wonderful tasks makes the Galaxy class a good candidate for Commando conversion. Further, let's face it, the Galaxy class is pretty badly done by in STO, and this is an opportunity to give it a new specialisation that really makes the old ship shine. Failing that, some sort of fancy tricks with a deflector and secondary deflector is a very Starfleet thing to do.
KDF:
Let's face it, ramming your enemy and then jumping onto their ship with your Bat'leth in hand is the Klingon way. What Klingon ship wouldn't work for boarding? It's a defining tactic from TOS onwards, shown using... well, everything from shuttles upwards. Instinct says either a Bird of Prey as a strike team raider, or something like a Vo'devwl variant for ramming.
Romulan:
Not many on screen options here, as far as I can remember anyway. Perhaps a Reman avenue to explore? First Contact mentions Remans being used as shock troops in the Dominion War. I think a Reman Commando science ship could be an intriguing option to explore. Alternatively, drawing on the Suliban links already established could have a swarm of cell ship boarding parties.
Jem'Hadar:
Again, the nature of Jem'Hadar means they have a lot of options here, with the Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser fitting in straight from the Dominion War. Personally, I think a sci ship suits them the least.
What do people think?
BUT, lets say it has a complete revamp, using a conversion of the Commando secondary specialisation into a full specialisation. These new Commando ships are inevitably mainly going to be cruiser/carrier types, but I suppose you could also have a "strike team escort" or something, or a tachyon beam focused sci ship.
Supposing that the Commando specialisation was expanded to include space, with new kinds of Commando boff abilities that focus on things like knocking out enemy shields, or adjusting weapon damage to do more damage to shields without bleedthrough, or expands on ramming speed to allow transferring marines - things that aid the goal of being able to use the main Gather Intelligence/Innovation/Inspiration etc. mechanics that enable you to capture enemy NPC vessels.
Once captured, a vessel is treated as a bonus hangar pet until either destroyed or the end of the map, at which point it becomes a pile of Dil, EC, R&D materials or marks, or... whatever suits balancing. Based on it's ranking, so capturing a Dreadnought is worth a lot more than capturing an escort.
Obviously, it won't be a meta specialisation - it takes time to capture a vessel after all, estimating at least a minute, by which time a lot of stuff has been blown up. But, it could be an interesting new playstyle, and one with plenty of onscreen evidence to back it up.
Some basic ideas:
Starfleet:
Galaxy class Commando Cruiser - as documented in Yesterday's Enterprise TNG 3x15, while it isn't Starfleet's main role for the ship, the Galaxy class is able to carry 6000 marines. As well as that, being an Exploration Cruiser with large numbers of research labs and sensor thingys well employed throughout TNGs run for all kinds of weird and wonderful tasks makes the Galaxy class a good candidate for Commando conversion. Further, let's face it, the Galaxy class is pretty badly done by in STO, and this is an opportunity to give it a new specialisation that really makes the old ship shine. Failing that, some sort of fancy tricks with a deflector and secondary deflector is a very Starfleet thing to do.
KDF:
Let's face it, ramming your enemy and then jumping onto their ship with your Bat'leth in hand is the Klingon way. What Klingon ship wouldn't work for boarding? It's a defining tactic from TOS onwards, shown using... well, everything from shuttles upwards. Instinct says either a Bird of Prey as a strike team raider, or something like a Vo'devwl variant for ramming.
Romulan:
Not many on screen options here, as far as I can remember anyway. Perhaps a Reman avenue to explore? First Contact mentions Remans being used as shock troops in the Dominion War. I think a Reman Commando science ship could be an intriguing option to explore. Alternatively, drawing on the Suliban links already established could have a swarm of cell ship boarding parties.
Jem'Hadar:
Again, the nature of Jem'Hadar means they have a lot of options here, with the Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser fitting in straight from the Dominion War. Personally, I think a sci ship suits them the least.
What do people think?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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I like the idea and would be interestet in it. I have a Klingon Negh'Var that is entirely build around boarding party, tractor beams with bombs, the commando spec and so on.
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The Negh'var would be another good candidate, especially given it suffers the same issues as the Galaxy does.
It definitely needs a way to be useful in TFOs even if you can't capture the vessel... If we're talking about hundreds, maybe thousands, of marines going in, then it won't be a long fight; that's enough marines to overwhelm the crew of the vast majority of ships, so perhaps the time could come down to say... thirty seconds? If everyone beams in to the right place and takes out their one target, it is possible to do it that quickly. And you could definitely say they cause enough chaos on board to say, knock out subsystems or force them to fire on other enemy NPCs.
Edit - what if strike team Commandos weren't there to capture the enemy ship, but to deploy bombs and sabotage things, so they act like a straight damage dealing ability? That would make them TFO useful.
It is an Admiralty card you get, not a Doff card. But it's a one time card you get, that gets replaced after you use it once you catch a similar type ship. IIRC there is 4 cards you can have, 1 for each 'basic' class type.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Um, no one has said or implied docking, or landing in enemy hangars. (although those are options once control of the ship is established of course) Certainly, I have in mind more like what Krall's forces did to the Enterprise in Star Trek: Beyond, if you are planning on having people physically fly craft out to the enemy vessel. (which has the substantial downside that it gives the enemy vessel time to prepare for boarding parties, which makes the task of seizing the ship much harder - a fully coordinated mass transport of thousands of personnel would be much more likely to succeed than launching small craft that could be shot down in transit and potentially fought off)
Giving all carriers - heck, dreadnoughts too, given the profile of dreadnoughts is similar to carriers - the ability to capture enemy vessels kind of makes one of the main special features of the specialisation expansion pointless, but they could certainly make use of the strike team bits if they were done as boff abilities.
Don't get me wrong, a carrier or a dreadnought would definitely have the resources to do strike teams, but that isn't what we are talking about in capturing a vessel to a TFO usable standard; think about it, we're talking about replacing the entire crew of a hostile alien vessel in a matter of well under a minute. And these aren't just random guys, but these are potentially two thousand plus highly skilled close-quarters combat specialists who are also able to instantly orientate in and take control in a hostile vessel, then fly it working as a crew.
A carrier isn't going to have the ability to do that - it's focus is on the command, maintenance and deploying of fighter/bombers and frigates, which is a highly focused task requiring a lot of on demand manufacturing capacity and sensor/communications equipment. Likewise, a dreadnought - which logically would have the marines to take over a ship after conducting multiple boarding actions - is not going to have the deployment capability needed to seize a ship the way I have in mind. (after all, to make this TFO usable, we need to be taking the ship in as little as 30 seconds or less; spending five minutes shuttling people to and from isn't good enough for what we need)
But, a dedicated ship could do this - quarters for all the marines, holodeck training rooms, a transporter pad per marine, several thousand tonnes of capacitors and targeting computers to ensure no one gets beamed into a section of hull takes up a lot of space, and it's space that a carrier (or a dreadnought for that matter) can't set aside.
This naturally leads to actually capturing ships being tied to Commando specialisation ships as one of the headline abilities of the Inspiration/Innovation/Gather Intelligence equivalent mechanics, while strike team missions were available as part of the boff abilities.
You could have strike teams to cause internal damage to hull (which increases with rank) or knock subsystems offline (increasing duration with rank) or cause them to fire on their former allies for a period of time (increasing with rank) etc.
Another option is to have Support Teams; useless when targeted to your own ship, but things like extra damage or massive heals for other players/friendly NPCs. Not sure how much players would use it, but it's a valid direction to consider.
Could also have a directed energy weapons enhancer that does extra damage to shields (possibly even harming all shields, not just the one facing? What do people think?) at a cost of no damage to hull (as in lore, you can't transport through shields, making taking them down a priority) which naturally leads to the idea of a torpedo high yield type enhancer by making your next torpedo strike some kind of EMP attack to take a shield offline.
While a Pilot/Commando ship would be quite an interesting combination, and I can definitely see the scenario under which such a vessel is used, I think you have the wrong thread...
I see. yes, that works just fine.
One-time use admiralty cards are pointless to many players -- I have dozens on all of my characters and have started wasting them even when not needed just to clear them out.
I'm just now getting the joke- the BOFF boarding party skill launches boarding shuttles that circle the enemy ship till a shield drops then beams over a handful of marines.
...why arent those shuttles beaming over 'transporter bombs' instead ?
Maybe the joke is a players boarding party sucessfully boards, then the player is whisked into the enemy ships corridors to do 3pv ground combat while an NPC pilots his ship against the other NPC hoards left in space ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Otherwise yes, beaming in explosives usually makes more sense. Stargate Atlantis did that against the Wraith.
Only problem is boarding party's using Transport, would or should need to take transporters down. But that's likely no different that traditional boarding party's who find a way around the docking ports or Hanger Bay Doors.
Nice! I will have to hunt that up for my Gorn.
Another nice addition! Thanks to you both for the tips!
> Umm...NO. Boarding parties would use transporters since enemy ships would probably lock their docking ports and hangars while in combat.
The boarding party engineer skill literally launches shuttles to board the other vessel, has done so since the game's beginning. They transport back to your ship, though.
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What if Commander rank Strike Team abilities were AoE effects?
Let's face it, if we're talking about organising the mass beaming of thousands of people to a single target, then ~10 people per ship or so to a dozen ships or more is much easier.
So, my current ideas for boff abilities:
Ensign, Lieutenant and Lt. Commander:
EMP Overload - next torpedo attack does major damage to shields, 30 second duration, 30 second CD
Tachyon Enhanced Weapons - weapons do double damage to shields with no hull damage, 10 second duration, 30 second CD
Boarding Party - taken from Engineering and made a Commando ability, given upgrades to make it more useful.
Restoration Support Team - small hull heal, small shield heal, extra hull and shield regen over time, AoE to allies within 10km on rank III
Lieutenant, Lt. Commander and Commander:
Subsystem Strike Team - lets face it, the big problem with subsystem targeting is that it isn't powerful enough. So, knocks two systems offline for duration at rank I, all four at rank II, AoE on rank III.
Detonation Strike Team - straight hull damage dealing ability, AoE on rank III
Offensive Support Team - gives a bonus to weapons and auxiliary power at I, plus bonus all damage rank II, AoE to allies within 10 km on rank III
Heglu'meH QaQ jajvam - the old fashioned way; all ahead full straight into the enemy captured by tractor beams, fire grappling hook cannons to lock them down once the void is closed, warriors in EVA combat suits flying from ship to ship, not just mere shuttles but the whole ship itself flown with terror chasing the doomed prey. It can't be a "meta" ability, so it may as well be glorious!
The shuttles probably cut thru the hull or use the shuttle transporters.
Edit: Fixed Trilogy to Duology
Why are you bringing up the US Navy on this? The benchmark is what appears in Star Trek, which has confirmed data indicating that the KDF and the Dominion use ships of this kind for deploying this many soldiers, mainly for planetary occupation missions admittedly, while Starfleet have been documented as using such vessels in an alternative universe. Further, back when crew counts were shown in STO, many substantial cruisers had more than a thousand crew. All I am doing is taking what is shown on screen, and drawing it to a logical conclusion of what could happen if you really specialised a ship for this task and then make as quick as possible for the sake of gameplay.
Boarding parties are already in the game, albeit nothing like as extreme as I've got figured out.
Of course it would, Star Trek from the beginning was the idea of a former serviceman.
That's actually my entire point right from the very beginning of the thread; these are ships specifically focused on the carrying and rapid deployment of marines, officers and technicians suitable for the task of completely replacing a battle operation crew aboard a hostile alien starship under battlefield conditions, with all my ideas being built around completely overhauling one of the specialisations that has no space application yet (Commando currently is purely ground only) into a full specialisation equivalent to Intel, Miracle Worker, Command and Temporal, where it has benefits on both ground and in space.
I have assumed that any full Commando Specialisation ship would most likely be a large, dedicated cruiser that started as a conversion of some of the biggest vessels employed by members of the Alliance, although I did say it might be possible for dreadnoughts, carriers, escorts and science ships to still use some but definitely not all of the abilities.
Further, these are NOT carriers - there is no second ship. Just one ship heavily focused on maintaining holodeck simulations for training, crew quarters and power generation to run the massive number of transporters this deployment strategy depends on; so many transporters that you could beam in (or out) an entire crew to run a ship. That's why the abilities I've outlined have such a strong focus on taking down shields, because one of the limitations on Star Trek transporters is that you cannot beam through a shield.
In the OP, I explicitly named one ship (Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser) that has the ability in the Prime Timeline to carry the number of marines needed for this tactic to work,and pointed out that in an alternate history Starfleet had a version of the Galaxy class that also carried marines (specifically, it was rated for 6000 marines) I then pointed out that while we don't see them, the Klingons are referred to as having ship classes able to carry the number of marines needed for the plan to work being used as part of conquests and garrison keeping on conquered worlds. The only part of my premise that isn't seen in the shows is the beaming of so many people at once, because we generally see boarding actions that focus on a small away team tasked with a specific job - but then, it is a logical expansion on what could be done using transporters.
I think you mean Armada duology, as there were only ever two games in the series.
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