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Melee Attack needs to be improved

As a new Klingon Recruit I tried to gain the "Warrior's Blood" Objective and I found it is quite...suicidal.

First, if i need to use melee, I can NOT turn on autoattack.

Unlike autoattack for ranged weapon, autoattack for melee will simply make your character standing still and wielding weapon, never care if any target in attack range. If autoattack is turned on for melee then the character will never be able to move because he/she is too busy wielding weapon to move.

Also when you need to attack target you need to move within attacking range, and melee has extreme short range, so you have to manually move your character closing enough to target but you NEVER know if you are truely close enough to your target due to network latency. Not to mention your target will try to run away from you. So mostly what will happen is ... when I move my character to target and launch attack, either the attack will miss due to NOT actually within melee range, or target ran away when I was trying to get close.

I believe melee has to be improved, either add an auto-movement function to let character automatically move to target then launch attack, or add a check to see if any vaild target within range, stopping character to swing his/her weapon like an id***. otherwise holding a pulsewave blast and use melee attack will be far more effective than wielding a Bat'leth because enemies will actually trying to run TO you rather than running away.

Fascinating, but not interesting at all.
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Comments

  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,845 Arc User
    Some weapons have a short charge as part of their attack (eg. most swords and mek'letlh). The best melee "weapon" is the mind meld device from the Discovery rep set. It has a MASSIVE charge attack in place of the knockdown effect other weapons have, and it does TITANIC damage when an exploit hit lands.

    Having said that, I'm in total agreement. Melee combat needs to be improved upon in a bad way.
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  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Weirdly th eone really interesting thing in the otherwise completely annoying and infuriating "Play as J'ula" Know;edge is Power mission is how smoothly she shifts between guns and melee attack as needed. If only th eplayer characters could work like that. I got my new Klingon Character up to the 100 melee kill tier of Warriors Blood. The way your Batlef (sp?) evolves is gorgeous. But damn if its not painful. The only thing preventing me from dying horribly constantly is grossly overpowered BOFF's wielding uber reclaimed gear.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,757 Bug Hunter
    edited January 29
    I've never been a big Melee fan, and doing missions where Bridge Officer's have ranged does not help. Time to buy several Melee weapons for my Klingons to help boost the high melee defeat objective; if only that would work. :)
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,743 Arc User
    If I could have both my weapons without the clunky switch mechanic I'd be estatic...A lot of my drones go have a long range and short range loadout as there is nothing like running into cqc range while firing a ranged weapon then switching to a pulsewave or melee to really bring the pain (sometimes dodge rolling to try and get a style point grabbing flank attack)

    Its taken me a lot of time to get used to combat switching (and learning which weapons work for Dante style switch antics) but as much as I dislike that mission, the way she shifts to and fro in combat was really nice - Its why I like the staff weapons but I still find them niche due to their gun type - J'ulas weapon is far more my play style

    Any chance we can get her combo weapon as a reward or lobi?
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    Yeah, I know that they wanted to go with "Klingon-themed" activities for the Recruit event, but "2500 melee kills" and "2500 cloaked kills" are just not terribly compelling tasks. Especially with NPCs and away teams blasting away with rifles.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,878 Arc User
    I think one way to get your melee kills may not always be with the event Bat'leth but instead with one of the other 2 in-game swords that have the close on attack feature in combination with other things. Ceremonial weapons can and do work but can take a lot of practice to master. There was another thread recently that had some good tips and suggestions.

    You might eventually end up getting dozens of melee kills that count towards the recruitment goals in quick succession in a single TFO or mission after some progression.
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  • smi3thsmi3th Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    Weirdly the one really interesting thing in the otherwise completely annoying and infuriating "Play as J'ula" Knowledge is Power mission is how smoothly she shifts between guns and melee attack as needed. If only th eplayer characters could work like that. ...

    When she engages with her mekleths she advances on the enemy she has autotargeted, and attacking automatically faces you towards the enemy. This is how all melee weapons should work. It's good to know the code now exists; if only it could be implemented across the board.

    Right now if you want to use melee, against most opponents you need to use something like stun grenade or electro-gravitic field because otherwise enemies just dodge out of the way, and once you click the attack buttons for a melee weapon your character cannot move until the attack is complete. Weapon malfunction works on klingons because they can switch to melee and will get close on their own.

  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,540 Arc User
    While it's a clunky system(ground combat as a whole is very crude, mechanically), there are tools you can use to make your life a little easier - snares, roots, and teleports(yes, those ones that everyone overlooks) will make your life a lot easier.

    I just wish there was an auto-cleave mechanic so you could hit multiple targets at once without needing to be a tactical captain..
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    I saw someone earlier on qonos claim that physical damage from things like the tommy gun will also trigger the kill count but without and actual counter to work from I'm not that willing to give it a go.

    My plan is to go braindead either poking borg on defera do a rinse and repeat slaughter of the bar on nimbus or something like the batleth rings if those count. Although I don't really see me bothering as melee combat in STO is just a steaming pile of keech and the thought of doing that many kills on two PC accounts plus PS4 when it arrives makes things like synthwave every day for three weeks sound like a holiday in paradise.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 5,260 Arc User
    I saw someone earlier on qonos claim that physical damage from things like the tommy gun will also trigger the kill count but without and actual counter to work from I'm not that willing to give it a go.

    My plan is to go braindead either poking borg on defera do a rinse and repeat slaughter of the bar on nimbus or something like the batleth rings if those count. Although I don't really see me bothering as melee combat in STO is just a steaming pile of keech and the thought of doing that many kills on two PC accounts plus PS4 when it arrives makes things like synthwave every day for three weeks sound like a holiday in paradise.

    Hmm. Well, if you were to get enough kills in a row with the tommy that you KNOW you should hit the next increment on the recruit device, that would tell you yes or no....
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    lol makes me wish I had splurged on Catians &/or Ferasans when there was a good sale on them since they have the Pounce option.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    smi3th wrote: »
    Weirdly the one really interesting thing in the otherwise completely annoying and infuriating "Play as J'ula" Knowledge is Power mission is how smoothly she shifts between guns and melee attack as needed. If only th eplayer characters could work like that. ...

    When she engages with her mekleths she advances on the enemy she has autotargeted, and attacking automatically faces you towards the enemy. This is how all melee weapons should work. It's good to know the code now exists; if only it could be implemented across the board.

    Right now if you want to use melee, against most opponents you need to use something like stun grenade or electro-gravitic field because otherwise enemies just dodge out of the way, and once you click the attack buttons for a melee weapon your character cannot move until the attack is complete. Weapon malfunction works on klingons because they can switch to melee and will get close on their own.

    see bold and italics. we need this...it was great to have this feature in this mission. needs to be done for all melee. and i am a fan of melee in the game too.
    meh

  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    edited January 28
    The new batleth (that you get as a reward for only a single melee kill) has an auto-lunge toward your target built in. That solves the problem of the moving targets. Just claim it from your transponder device!

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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    The new batleth (that you get as a reward for only a single melee kill) gas an auto-lunge toward your target built in. That solves the problem of the moving targets. Just claim it from your transponder device!

    well, then make this feature available on all melee weaps. or at least a feature we can craft and add.
    meh

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    edited January 28
    I saw someone earlier on qonos claim that physical damage from things like the tommy gun will also trigger the kill count but without and actual counter to work from I'm not that willing to give it a go.

    My plan is to go braindead either poking borg on defera do a rinse and repeat slaughter of the bar on nimbus or something like the batleth rings if those count. Although I don't really see me bothering as melee combat in STO is just a steaming pile of keech and the thought of doing that many kills on two PC accounts plus PS4 when it arrives makes things like synthwave every day for three weeks sound like a holiday in paradise.

    I was curious about this as well.. I actually think it would work. Melee does Physical Damage, and my guess is that the game simply tracks kills with physical damage to boost the counter. If that’s the case then you could get your ‘melee’ kills by using the Tommy Gun. I have been meaning to try it, I just need to get some time to play my recruit. If I hear confirmation either way, I’ll let you know.

    I would however, prefer that Bat’leth combat were greatly improved because I actually like the recruit weapon and would love to use it. If I could get it to be effective, I would make an entire ground team of melee Klingon Warriors.. that would be really cool. Right now though, it’s frustrating for many of the reasons the OP stated already.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,878 Arc User
    The new batleth (that you get as a reward for only a single melee kill) has an auto-lunge toward your target built in. That solves the problem of the moving targets. Just claim it from your transponder device!

    Good of you to remind there is an auto-lunge hiding lurking there and it just has to be used. This would be a good time to get re-acquainted and figure a few things out lol.

    I was doing the mission Alpha on my level 25 recruit and found the auto-lunge triggers at 5 metres or less but I had to manually click to select targets with the game at it's factory settings versus the Hirogen. They did seem to have the ability to move just out of range briefly and if they closed the distance again all was ok and if not R for auto move forward seemed to take care of the another auto-lunge or close. I was playing in RPG mode.

    So a highly effective weapon that might need some settings tweaks for an optimal experience? The issue I encountered using a Bat'leth versus a energy weapon is that it didn't auto acquire a target.

    Yes, it's been a while.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,878 Arc User
    edited January 28
    I saw someone earlier on qonos claim that physical damage from things like the tommy gun will also trigger the kill count but without and actual counter to work from I'm not that willing to give it a go.
    Was on Nimbus this evening and tried the shotgun. At level 26 I got the Open Season accolade (50 beasts) and likely did 50 more after that without any luck for counting as melee kills. Maybe beasts don't count. Maybe the tommy gun works but the shotgun doesn't. Both are physical damage.

    Did easily 50 more with the tommy after the map replenished targets and my transponder still didn't move from 10 to 50.

    Will try this verus NPC's for a bit and see what happens.

    Update: beast do count and those two guns don't seem to -

    Went down to do the ruins portion of the mission with my Bat'leth vs the sandworms and hit 50 on my melee-O-meter just like that. Now the unique Bat'leth heals me as well based upon damage dealt.

    Only 2450 more bad guys to go lol.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    I saw someone earlier on qonos claim that physical damage from things like the tommy gun will also trigger the kill count but without and actual counter to work from I'm not that willing to give it a go.
    Was on Nimbus this evening and tried the shotgun. At level 26 I got the Open Season accolade (50 beasts) and likely did 50 more after that without any luck for counting as melee kills. Maybe beasts don't count. Maybe the tommy gun works but the shotgun doesn't. Both are physical damage.

    Did easily 50 more with the tommy after the map replenished targets and my transponder still didn't move from 10 to 50.

    Will try this verus NPC's for a bit and see what happens.

    Update: beast do count and those two guns don't seem to -

    Went down to do the ruins portion of the mission with my Bat'leth vs the sandworms and hit 50 on my melee-O-meter just like that. Now the unique Bat'leth heals me as well based upon damage dealt.

    Only 2450 more bad guys to go lol.

    Hey thanks man.. I was meaning to test the Tommy Gun to see if I could 'game the system,' but alas I will have to just break down and do it the way I am supposed to. :lol:

    Cool of you to let us know.. thanks again.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    check leck's knives too - cryptic probably excluded those as well, but it never hurts to check​​
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    edited January 28
    The new batleth (that you get as a reward for only a single melee kill) has an auto-lunge toward your target built in. That solves the problem of the moving targets. Just claim it from your transponder device!

    I am using the Bat'Leth of Stovokor from the Transponder.. it has no lunge attack.

    {Edit} - My bad, it does. It's not a mappable attack, it just does it automatically on auto attack.. nice. I didn't notice it.. thank you.

    It's made the weapon a lot cooler.. I got 50 kills in nothing flat. I like the way it keeps making the weapon better and better.. pretty nice.
    Post edited by seaofsorrows on
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,878 Arc User
    check leck's knives too - cryptic probably excluded those as well, but it never hurts to check​​
    Good idea.

    I just got myself a Tsunkatse Falchion at level 30 so that will be next. Want to compare notes on any auto-lunge differences on it versus the Bat'leth.

    It's going to be interesting to see what sort of end-game melee builds make the melee-O-meter work.
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,416 Arc User
    The problem isn't just with melee. Yes, it's clumsy and not as dynamic as it should be.

    But just as problematic is the fact that the only advantage of melee (namely, that it ignores shields) was given to so many other powers. Just look at all the dev blogs where the last lock boxes, gear from events, boff abilities and so on were announced.

    Everything has to bypass shields nowadays or it's not interesting enough to release it, apparently. Or actually, not just 'nowadays', as this has been going on for years.


    I've also pointed this out years ago. And it hasn't changed, it's only gotten worse, much worse. They never should have given that advantage to so much stuff. It's a benefit you get because there are, as noted, serious drawbacks to and challenges to overcome when using a melee build. To give it to stuff that doesn't have to deal with those drawbacks, was always unfair to those using melee weapons and certainly didn't help them gain popularity or viability.


    Of course, no one but a select few cared about this years ago when this began with the release of the TR rifle. So yeah, I doubt many people are going to care now. It's too late to change it anyway, the only solution they seem to be able to come up with, is releasing more overpowered new melee weapons instead of fixing the underlying mechanics.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,416 Arc User
    Or actually, they did release some new stuff like the Voth fangs that, with its built-in lunge effect, helped overcome some of the limitations. Still, that doesn't compensate for all the other stuff that was released and which severly impacted melee builds.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    The new batleths lunge is shorter than the minimum range an NPC will back off to when they inevitably wander away from your swings. So it's there but a lot of the time its not that useful.

    Been thinking of other spots that have large numbers of enemies that don't tend to run away so those ruin worms on nimbus might be fairly useful as a farming spot. Missions vs hurq on the ground should also work as they're nibblers more than shooters.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    edited January 28
    If anything, those milestones (and the reaction to them) will thankfully show to Cryptic how the melee system needs several improvements (whether they'll work on that is something else entirely).

    For me, the biggest issue is how most enemies back away from you and many of your attack combos (when they work) will end up striking in the air because the target is both too close to initiate the auto-lunge and too far away to get hit. At low-levels, it's already troublesome but at least the enemies are weaker, but I dread to see how combat will go at lvl60 where you try to hit one target while the rest of their buddies keep doing ranged flanking damage on your rump.

    Some traits thankfully help a bit, but they're, you know, lockbox traits and many players won't know which they are.

    I believe the issue could be alleviated without a whole system work if the recruits were rewarded a special trait early that allows you to AoE-stun or root foes.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,175 Arc User
    Yes, melee sucks. I groaned loudly when I saw the requirements for this recruitment. 2500 melee kills will take a while.

    Fortunately there are going to be ways of farming on enemies that won't run away. Nimbus is full of worms and the arthropods, but even the Rura Penthe mission is fairly good for this during the first section with unarmed prisoners. Of course the best one may be one of the last missions released where we revisit Nimbus and have the infinitely spawning arthropods and mugatos.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,416 Arc User
    Yes, melee sucks. I groaned loudly when I saw the requirements for this recruitment. 2500 melee kills will take a while.

    Fortunately there are going to be ways of farming on enemies that won't run away. Nimbus is full of worms and the arthropods, but even the Rura Penthe mission is fairly good for this during the first section with unarmed prisoners. Of course the best one may be one of the last missions released where we revisit Nimbus and have the infinitely spawning arthropods and mugatos.

    Borg on Defera are a good option too.

    Yes, it might take a while. It's not something that needs to be completed rapidly though, so it's not too bad I guess.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    edited January 28
    i like melee...just tend to dislike it a bit currently. the fight in the mission was fun. i really enjoyed having the auto target and gap decrease movement in place. i did, however, dislike the fact the weapon for a reward was only "blue" and not purple.

    i currently have the gloves and shield set and really enjoy those. id like to use the mish weap from this, or even the dual ones from the other mish, but blue quality is rather odd for mission rewards for melee weaps. more so when the space awards o
    are purple.
    meh

  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,048 Arc User
    The new batleth (that you get as a reward for only a single melee kill) has an auto-lunge toward your target built in. That solves the problem of the moving targets. Just claim it from your transponder device!

    I am using the Bat'Leth of Stovokor from the Transponder.. it has no lunge attack.

    {Edit} - My bad, it does. It's not a mappable attack, it just does it automatically on auto attack.. nice. I didn't notice it.. thank you.

    It's made the weapon a lot cooler.. I got 50 kills in nothing flat. I like the way it keeps making the weapon better and better.. pretty nice.

    IIRC all Bat'leths have that short range lunge, emphasis on short though as the range is maybe 5 meters at most and probably closer to 3 meters.

    That said the transponder Bat'leth nice for a different reason, mainly it heals you when you do damage, that said I wouldn't recommend giving boffs melee weapons as in my experience they just stand there and do nothing if you give them one.
  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited January 28
    STO uses the same engine as Neverwinter and Champions, so there's no actual reason for melee or ground combat to be poor. I can certainly see that Cryptic might have sensibly chosen to never put any effort into making ground melee combat work better, since very few people ever do it (aside from endeavors).

    That said, if I knew my ground melee combat was one of the worst-implemented elements of the game, I probably wouldn't choose to showcase just how bad it was by making '2,500 melee kills' part of my showcase event for my showcase "Year of the Klingon". It just shows the tremendous gap between the people making the decisions at Cryptic and any knowledge of actual gameplay.

    Then again, from what I can see, the only reward for completing the melee kills is being better at melee, which most of us will never do again anyway. So an easily skippable task if it's not your cup of tea.
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