In your opinion: What does the KDF faction need?

angrytarg · December 2020

Especially in regards to the 'year of the Klingon' (which btw is exactly what Cryptic said it was) players complain about basically anything that is not KDF faction exclusive. Some players state they look for parity between KDF and Starfleet.

I would like to ask how this should actually look like in your opinion. Because from my perspective, the KDF faction has almost everything the scope of the game offers these days.

A bunch of Klingon centric content, all major canon ships at T6 , a recent Player model overhaul. Save for 'legendary ship bundles' what does the KDF faction need it didn't receive as of now?

questerius · December 2020

angrytarg wrote: »

Especially in regards to the 'year of the Klingon' (which btw is exactly what Cryptic said it was) players complain about basically anything that is not KDF faction exclusive. Some players state they look for parity between KDF and Starfleet.

I would like to ask how this should actually look like in your opinion. Because from my perspective, the KDF faction has almost everything the scope of the game offers these days.

A bunch of Klingon centric content, all major canon ships at T6 , a recent Player model overhaul. Save for 'legendary ship bundles' what does the KDF faction need it didn't receive as of now?

Federation membership in addition a move to modern times.
Seriously, what is up with all the archaic symbolism and reverence of medieval warrior culture.

chastity1337 · December 2020

Boobies!

foxrockssocks · December 2020

More options and some uniqueness.

Ships are the big one, not just the sheer number of ships and total lack of legendaries (and legendaries is a huge issue currently, one that hopefully disappears in a couple months,) but the lack of customization options. Look at the BOP, there's almost 15 varieties of BOP and only I think, 3 options at T6, 2 of them with no customization options at all as they aren't related to any of those designs. Orions and gorn have one flavor of ship each despite being their own space faring empires. We know Cryptic can do good in house designs for KDF ships, and those are great as mirrored versions of Fed ships in the large packs, but even some basic kitbashing would work well for the canon KDF ships.

But gone are the days where if you wanted to play a carrier or cannon wielding battlecruiser that you had to play KDF. The Feds have gotten everything that made KDF unique, and seem to even have more of it now. Frankly they should probably invent a new thing for KDF, like "All KDF ships have cannons" which would give all of them essentially a free, but fixed DHC up front that just gives them a higher damage output if they can get something in the forward arc.

Uniforms are another issue, with no influence from Gorn, Nausicaan, or Letheans, and the Orions just have their skimp. The irony here is that the KDF, which is made up of different empires working together, is more uniform in its uniforms than the Feds are.

Unknown · December 2020

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angrytarg · December 2020

foxrockssocks wrote: »

More options and some uniqueness.

Ships are the big one, not just the sheer number of ships and total lack of legendaries (and legendaries is a huge issue currently, one that hopefully disappears in a couple months,) but the lack of customization options. Look at the BOP, there's almost 15 varieties of BOP and only I think, 3 options at T6, 2 of them with no customization options at all as they aren't related to any of those designs. Orions and gorn have one flavor of ship each despite being their own space faring empires. We know Cryptic can do good in house designs for KDF ships, and those are great as mirrored versions of Fed ships in the large packs, but even some basic kitbashing would work well for the canon KDF ships.

More kitbashing options is a fair point and I agree this should be possible. However, it's not like every Fed ship has a huge pool to kitbash from, many ships fedside have little or no customization as well. It depends whether or not it shares a "family" with other ships and even though some should, they don't. This is nothing that is KDF exclusive, though. Regarding Orions and Gorn, they are in the same boat as Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians. They got a few of their designs in the mix, even more than the fed races. But they aren't supposed to have a full line-up; storywise they aren't independent. The Gorn were annexed and the Orions are technically sending mercenaries I think? In either case, STO has always, from the beginning, just mirrored the Federation in red on "Klingon" side, the crews have always been mixed and as such, the "allied" ships are even more plentiful on KDF side.

But gone are the days where if you wanted to play a carrier or cannon wielding battlecruiser that you had to play KDF. The Feds have gotten everything that made KDF unique, and seem to even have more of it now. Frankly they should probably invent a new thing for KDF, like "All KDF ships have cannons" which would give all of them essentially a free, but fixed DHC up front that just gives them a higher damage output if they can get something in the forward arc.

But what for, exactly? There is no benefit of choosing one faction over the other, the content is the same for everyone. This is also a reason why I ask, I'd see the arugment if we had a ongoing faction war thing, even if it'd be in the form games like "For Honor" do it where everyone plays the same content, but you have chosen a 'faction' beforehand and your successes contribute to a meta faction war mechanic that grant boni and unlockables. But STO doesn't have that, it doesn't even maintain the barebone PvP it had. What benefit does "exclusivity" grant here?

Uniforms are another issue, with no influence from Gorn, Nausicaan, or Letheans, and the Orions just have their skimp. The irony here is that the KDF, which is made up of different empires working together, is more uniform in its uniforms than the Feds are.

I agree with that. I never liked that everyone in the "red federation" served in Klingon warrior attire. The whole concept of STOs portrayal of the red side is iffy.

therealblackkaos · December 2020

1. Faction specific content and storyline details. My interactions with a NPC should be tailored different. You can’t come at a Klingon in the same tone as a human. The dialogue choices and tone should reflow the that in my opinion. Same with all factions truthfully.

2. More ships. I’d like to see some new ship designs. Better yet, let us have the ability to “hijack” a Fed ship and skin it out as KDF. Same with all factions.

3. Not make YOK a “one time one off” event but a part of the game progress going forward. Granted, if they’re trying to keep the game in line with Disco/CBS then that’s a moot point but KDF (and all other factions) have been truly underserved.

foxrockssocks · December 2020

angrytarg wrote: »

foxrockssocks wrote: »

More options and some uniqueness.

Ships are the big one, not just the sheer number of ships and total lack of legendaries (and legendaries is a huge issue currently, one that hopefully disappears in a couple months,) but the lack of customization options. Look at the BOP, there's almost 15 varieties of BOP and only I think, 3 options at T6, 2 of them with no customization options at all as they aren't related to any of those designs. Orions and gorn have one flavor of ship each despite being their own space faring empires. We know Cryptic can do good in house designs for KDF ships, and those are great as mirrored versions of Fed ships in the large packs, but even some basic kitbashing would work well for the canon KDF ships.

More kitbashing options is a fair point and I agree this should be possible. However, it's not like every Fed ship has a huge pool to kitbash from, many ships fedside have little or no customization as well. It depends whether or not it shares a "family" with other ships and even though some should, they don't. This is nothing that is KDF exclusive, though. Regarding Orions and Gorn, they are in the same boat as Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians. They got a few of their designs in the mix, even more than the fed races. But they aren't supposed to have a full line-up; storywise they aren't independent. The Gorn were annexed and the Orions are technically sending mercenaries I think? In either case, STO has always, from the beginning, just mirrored the Federation in red on "Klingon" side, the crews have always been mixed and as such, the "allied" ships are even more plentiful on KDF side.

The KDF species were independent up until very recently, and even that is arguable. This is directly contrasting with hundreds of years of integration into the Federation of those species. The Orions and Gorn have very recent ship designs, and should arguably have influence on new KDF designs at the least, but certainly we should see more designs from them that aren't tier <6 ships. And the lack of options is more apparent on KDF side. There are 4 non-legendary Sovereigns in the game, and only 2 Negh'vars, for example. The KDF has far less skin options than the Fed do now, and maybe the Legendary KDF pack will bring some more options as they have for the FEDs, but we aren't there yet.

But gone are the days where if you wanted to play a carrier or cannon wielding battlecruiser that you had to play KDF. The Feds have gotten everything that made KDF unique, and seem to even have more of it now. Frankly they should probably invent a new thing for KDF, like "All KDF ships have cannons" which would give all of them essentially a free, but fixed DHC up front that just gives them a higher damage output if they can get something in the forward arc.

But what for, exactly? There is no benefit of choosing one faction over the other, the content is the same for everyone. This is also a reason why I ask, I'd see the arugment if we had a ongoing faction war thing, even if it'd be in the form games like "For Honor" do it where everyone plays the same content, but you have chosen a 'faction' beforehand and your successes contribute to a meta faction war mechanic that grant boni and unlockables. But STO doesn't have that, it doesn't even maintain the barebone PvP it had. What benefit does "exclusivity" grant here?

When you have a two faction game, there needs to be reasons to play both factions. War or no war. Exclusivity is about enticing people to play KDF or FED content to experience it, and spend $$ on ships from both factions. As we have seen over the years, the more they chip away at KDF exclusiveness, the less and less reason there is to play KDF, to the point where people just say destroy the KDF and make it part of the Federation, which is offensive to say the least, and is exactly the slippery slope those of us who've been around a while warned about when they started chipping away at the KDF exclusiveness.

It comes from years of genericide, giving Feds all the toys and uniqueness the KDF has, minus the aesthetics, really. It is no different from a DnD style game giving fighters easy access to fireball and other spells, thus effectively removing the mage classes. If carriers, battlecruisers and cloaking had stayed KDF exclusives, people would be forced to play KDF to experience those playstyles and likely want to buy KDF ships.

This is why I suggest to do something like give KDF a DPS advantage. Why aren't there mechanical DPS advantages to playing in the warrior empire? Balance is something Cryptic tossed away a long time ago. So if you want the highest DPS, well, KDF is your choice, and thus you have reason to play that side if you want to chase DPS above all. Of course what I suggested wouldn't be that huge, but its something.

angrytarg · December 2020

But STO is only two-faction due to technical reasons. When the game started there were plans to maintain two factions via PvP and such, but that is no longer the case. Faction exclusive content was explicitly removed from the game's agenda a long time ago (in those words, faction exclusive content will definitely not be developed any further). The factions are really one, just having a different tutorial. What benefit is there to "force people to play KDF"? It doesn't matter, and the ships that are now in the game don't go away.

If I like to play my Klingons I play them, if I like to play my Starfleet I play them. My Klingons have all the canon ships, most of the canon outfits. What more is there? If there was RvR I'd understand complaints about "taking something away", but as it stands it really doesn't matter, doesn't it?

phoenixc · December 2020

angrytarg wrote: »

foxrockssocks wrote: »

More options and some uniqueness.

Ships are the big one, not just the sheer number of ships and total lack of legendaries (and legendaries is a huge issue currently, one that hopefully disappears in a couple months,) but the lack of customization options. Look at the BOP, there's almost 15 varieties of BOP and only I think, 3 options at T6, 2 of them with no customization options at all as they aren't related to any of those designs. Orions and gorn have one flavor of ship each despite being their own space faring empires. We know Cryptic can do good in house designs for KDF ships, and those are great as mirrored versions of Fed ships in the large packs, but even some basic kitbashing would work well for the canon KDF ships.

More kitbashing options is a fair point and I agree this should be possible. However, it's not like every Fed ship has a huge pool to kitbash from, many ships fedside have little or no customization as well. It depends whether or not it shares a "family" with other ships and even though some should, they don't. This is nothing that is KDF exclusive, though. Regarding Orions and Gorn, they are in the same boat as Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians. They got a few of their designs in the mix, even more than the fed races. But they aren't supposed to have a full line-up; storywise they aren't independent. The Gorn were annexed and the Orions are technically sending mercenaries I think? In either case, STO has always, from the beginning, just mirrored the Federation in red on "Klingon" side, the crews have always been mixed and as such, the "allied" ships are even more plentiful on KDF side.

But gone are the days where if you wanted to play a carrier or cannon wielding battlecruiser that you had to play KDF. The Feds have gotten everything that made KDF unique, and seem to even have more of it now. Frankly they should probably invent a new thing for KDF, like "All KDF ships have cannons" which would give all of them essentially a free, but fixed DHC up front that just gives them a higher damage output if they can get something in the forward arc.

But what for, exactly? There is no benefit of choosing one faction over the other, the content is the same for everyone. This is also a reason why I ask, I'd see the arugment if we had a ongoing faction war thing, even if it'd be in the form games like "For Honor" do it where everyone plays the same content, but you have chosen a 'faction' beforehand and your successes contribute to a meta faction war mechanic that grant boni and unlockables. But STO doesn't have that, it doesn't even maintain the barebone PvP it had. What benefit does "exclusivity" grant here?

Uniforms are another issue, with no influence from Gorn, Nausicaan, or Letheans, and the Orions just have their skimp. The irony here is that the KDF, which is made up of different empires working together, is more uniform in its uniforms than the Feds are.

I agree with that. I never liked that everyone in the "red federation" served in Klingon warrior attire. The whole concept of STOs portrayal of the red side is iffy.

Technically, the non-Klingon KDF members are NOT in the same boat as the Vulcans and Andorians and whatnot. The Federation is just what the name implies, a federation, which means the member states give up a lot of their sovereignty and pool almost all of their military resources at the federal level. On the other hand, the Empire has always been a kind of confederation where the members do not give up their own sovereignty, instead they just contribute to the joint welfare from their own internal forces and resources.

Even just the Klingons themselves are like that, the great houses are mostly-independent allies banded together and only follow the chancellor on inter-house disputes and external matters like wars with foreign powers. In DS9 they brought out the fact that each house maintains its own shipyards and designs though they tend to copy each other to a large degree too.

There should be even less homogenization of KDF forces than there is in Federation, Romulan, or Dominion ones, so Orion, Gorn, and Nausican ships and uniforms should be much more diverse than they are now. Why would the Orions only send carriers, the Gorn only send science ships and the Nausicans only send destroyers when all three should have the full spectrum of ships in their own internal navies?

And some ships should combine features of some of the others to represent joint ventures. In fact, some of that could be achieved by kitbash parts for existing ships, that could be used for both inter-race projects and differences in the construction of standard designs depending on the great house or imperial state which made it.

In addition to the ships, the KDF side needs some story content that is based in the other member states, stories set in Orion, Gorn, or Nausican territory would be quite a bit different in tone and style from the ones set in Klingon territory and would tend to attract people who play those races (and from the sheer number of Orions and Gorn player characters seen in all the KDF-accessible places there are quite a few).

Unknown · December 2020

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warmonger360 · December 2020

needs more stories, and dialog that doesn't sound like touchie/feelie feds. far too many times I'm hearing things Klingons wouldn't say/say in the manner. also, add temporal D7 to the store

xividax · December 2020

Gorn TAC, and engineer ships would be nice. Perhaps a few other ships from some of the conquered/aligned space faring species under KDF rule like- Fearsan, an Orion pirate escort, Nausiccan escort, etc.

Even just a few new ship skins for the existing KDF ships that added alternate, race themed styling aesthetics would be nice.

Unknown · December 2020

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lazarus · December 2020

What is really needed is a KDF recruitment event.
give special rewards for new recruits,..just like the other recruitment events.

vegeta50024 · December 2020

somtaawkhar wrote: »

Some legendary ships, and the last of its old arcs revamped.

That latter part is only true at least until maybe the anniversary.

peterconnorfirst · December 2020

crossfaction teamups & sub 5 player que groups

ambush · December 2020

Bridge Officers with Space Traits, Fed & Gromulans Have quite a few.

foxrockssocks · December 2020

angrytarg wrote: »

But STO is only two-faction due to technical reasons. When the game started there were plans to maintain two factions via PvP and such, but that is no longer the case. Faction exclusive content was explicitly removed from the game's agenda a long time ago (in those words, faction exclusive content will definitely not be developed any further). The factions are really one, just having a different tutorial. What benefit is there to "force people to play KDF"? It doesn't matter, and the ships that are now in the game don't go away.

If I like to play my Klingons I play them, if I like to play my Starfleet I play them. My Klingons have all the canon ships, most of the canon outfits. What more is there? If there was RvR I'd understand complaints about "taking something away", but as it stands it really doesn't matter, doesn't it?

The issue is less about forcing players to play as much as it is forcing the Devs to continue developing KDF content, thus we need something to entice people to play KDF side. The old issue of carriers and battlecruisers never had any PVP issue at stake, as those weren't really make or break thing in PVP, and originally, the Vo'Quv was a big liability since it couldn't cloak. It was always about a reason to play the other side.

People whined and demanded carriers for Feds for years when they could always play carriers if they wanted to, just make a KDF character. You and I were happy to do that, but other people never did, for whatever reason. So it is no surprise that the KDF population has slowly dwindled as more of their toys get just handed over to the Feds.

doctorstegi · December 2020

KDF Faction needs a Year of the Klingon...

Unknown · December 2020

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Unknown · December 2020

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Unknown · December 2020

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angrytarg · December 2020

Regarding the Targs, my Klingons can use the R2D2 - erm... DOT-7 drone just fine, for example...

szerontzur · December 2020

The only thing I think it "Needs" is a proper First City layout overhaul. The Exchange should be centrally located(like where the transporter currently is), with better access to shipyard facilities across the plaza. The only reason I beam down there anymore is if I'm missing bridge officer powers or want to access the temporal agent.

Otherwise, I keep most of my (kdf) characters stationed at Dyson Joint Command - which I think has the best layout of any social hub(quick access to vendors, bank, exchange, and shipyard - tailor and rep mission stuff is off in separated, less-busy wards).

As for things I would "want" for the KDF.. well.. that's a very long list of fruitless dreams. Probably the biggest thing I want is a new KDF sub-faction akin to the TOS or DIS ones for Starfleet. I have a new Klingon Captain I've been wanting to make for atleast half a year now, but I've been holding off on the remote possibility of a sub-faction being added as part of YotK(I wish we could atleast get a concrete yes or no).

angrytarg · December 2020

> @szerontzur said:
> The only thing I think it "Needs" is a proper First City layout overhaul. The Exchange should be centrally located(like where the transporter currently is), with better access to shipyard facilities across the plaza. The only reason I beam down there anymore is if I'm missing bridge officer powers or want to access the temporal agent.
>
> Otherwise, I keep most of my (kdf) characters stationed at Dyson Joint Command - which I think has the best layout of any social hub(quick access to vendors, bank, exchange, and shipyard - tailor and rep mission stuff is off in separated, less-busy wards).
>
>
> As for things I would "want" for the KDF.. well.. that's a very long list of fruitless dreams. Probably the biggest thing I want is a new KDF sub-faction akin to the TOS or DIS ones for Starfleet. I have a new Klingon Captain I've been wanting to make for atleast half a year now, but I've been holding off on the remote possibility of a sub-faction being added as part of YotK(I wish we could atleast get a concrete yes or no).

You can safely make that character. YoK means visual overhauls, revamp of early missions with voice actors and cutscenes and a Klingon-centric storyline. Nothing even hinted at a KDF subfaction as part of YoK.

westx211 · December 2020

angrytarg wrote: »

> @szerontzur said:
> The only thing I think it "Needs" is a proper First City layout overhaul. The Exchange should be centrally located(like where the transporter currently is), with better access to shipyard facilities across the plaza. The only reason I beam down there anymore is if I'm missing bridge officer powers or want to access the temporal agent.
>
> Otherwise, I keep most of my (kdf) characters stationed at Dyson Joint Command - which I think has the best layout of any social hub(quick access to vendors, bank, exchange, and shipyard - tailor and rep mission stuff is off in separated, less-busy wards).
>
>
> As for things I would "want" for the KDF.. well.. that's a very long list of fruitless dreams. Probably the biggest thing I want is a new KDF sub-faction akin to the TOS or DIS ones for Starfleet. I have a new Klingon Captain I've been wanting to make for atleast half a year now, but I've been holding off on the remote possibility of a sub-faction being added as part of YotK(I wish we could atleast get a concrete yes or no).

You can safely make that character. YoK means visual overhauls, revamp of early missions with voice actors and cutscenes and a Klingon-centric storyline. Nothing even hinted at a KDF subfaction as part of YoK.

Except there's been hints at a Disco Klink subfaction.

westx211 · December 2020

szerontzur wrote: »

The only thing I think it "Needs" is a proper First City layout overhaul. The Exchange should be centrally located(like where the transporter currently is), with better access to shipyard facilities across the plaza. The only reason I beam down there anymore is if I'm missing bridge officer powers or want to access the temporal agent.

Otherwise, I keep most of my (kdf) characters stationed at Dyson Joint Command - which I think has the best layout of any social hub(quick access to vendors, bank, exchange, and shipyard - tailor and rep mission stuff is off in separated, less-busy wards).

As for things I would "want" for the KDF.. well.. that's a very long list of fruitless dreams. Probably the biggest thing I want is a new KDF sub-faction akin to the TOS or DIS ones for Starfleet. I have a new Klingon Captain I've been wanting to make for atleast half a year now, but I've been holding off on the remote possibility of a sub-faction being added as part of YotK(I wish we could atleast get a concrete yes or no).

There's been hints at a disco klink subfaction for the next anniversary. With potential of a recruit event(though there's more evidence of the disco klinks than a recruit event)

Unknown · December 2020

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szerontzur · December 2020

westx211 wrote: »

szerontzur wrote: »

The only thing I think it "Needs" is a proper First City layout overhaul. The Exchange should be centrally located(like where the transporter currently is), with better access to shipyard facilities across the plaza. The only reason I beam down there anymore is if I'm missing bridge officer powers or want to access the temporal agent.

Otherwise, I keep most of my (kdf) characters stationed at Dyson Joint Command - which I think has the best layout of any social hub(quick access to vendors, bank, exchange, and shipyard - tailor and rep mission stuff is off in separated, less-busy wards).

As for things I would "want" for the KDF.. well.. that's a very long list of fruitless dreams. Probably the biggest thing I want is a new KDF sub-faction akin to the TOS or DIS ones for Starfleet. I have a new Klingon Captain I've been wanting to make for atleast half a year now, but I've been holding off on the remote possibility of a sub-faction being added as part of YotK(I wish we could atleast get a concrete yes or no).

There's been hints at a disco klink subfaction for the next anniversary. With potential of a recruit event(though there's more evidence of the disco klinks than a recruit event)

Yeah, that's why I've been holding off. It has sounded like a very tentative thing, and I don't want to make a second "Klingon" just for the potential sub-faction. I imagine any such sub-faction would have a very limited race selection like the others do. If it's not going to happen, I'd rather know now so I can get the character rolling; or if it is going to happen, I don't have to feel bad about holding off and missing out on upgrade weekends and such.

The character concept is a bit of a KDF-variant mix between my JH Carrier/Fleet-in-being Captain combined with my federation 'repair ship' Captain. I plan to use the Vo'devwl with a 'repair'/buff build while mixing both BoP frigates and summons from photonic fleet, Titan Trait and Command Spec(+trait). I don't mind the era the Captain is (originally) from, as long as they're a Klingon commanding a Klingon flotilla.

Unknown · December 2020

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In your opinion: What does the KDF faction need?

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