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Question for Veterans of the game on ground combat..
bcstar
Member Posts: 335 Arc User
From a scale of enjoyability from 1-10 and from when you first started playing till present day. do you find that you have grown attached to the current gameplay of ground combat or do you feel it should be improved and smoothed out. I am asking because it is a debate with me on what i feel like currently playing. When I play a MMO i tend to just focus on one at a time. with that being said, i am torn between this game and SWTOR for specifically the ground game content. i really love the space content of this game. but nearly every mission is tied to some type of ground combat and recently i have a hand injury that has made my pinky and the finger next to it numb so for instance pressing shift constantly to sprint is a bit of an issue. anyhow i wouldn't mind hearing opinions if anyone finds that ground combat is great, or could use some tweaking. i wouldn't mind some type of smoothing of the edges so to speak but not sure i would say it needs a total revamp. thanks!
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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That said, would I like it to be improved? Hypothetically yes. However I can't help but think that in a game this old, with a system that old, that trying to do anything beyond very minor tweaks is dangerously likely to break something else very badly.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Though they seem intent on breaking it with all the disrupting stuff that's being released. Not to mention making the most fun missions nearly unplayable.
Still doesn't have the Trinity as much as other MMOs, but there is still a lot of flexability. I got a Romulan Engie who is what I call a Drone Master. All the Drone Kit Modules.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
As for the Sprint issue, I do sprint just to get to the next battle site faster but it's not a killer. Just program a different button or key to trigger it.
And as for the combat itself it has come a long way, remember no auto fire, oh my poor poor mouse button and finger. lol
Also, actually gearing your captain makes a world of difference. It sounds obvious, and it is, but I think a lot of people don't bother building their captains because they don't like ground. But if your gear is wack, ground will be suffering. As intended.
If you haven't bothered getting some good mission drop gear or rep gear because not enjoying ground doesn't inspire you to build for it, you are perpetuating a cycle of suffering on ground by not building to alleviate said suffering. Just like a poorly equipped ship suffers in space. Seriously, go from fully equipped, game on point on your main and start a new character. Space is suffering too when ya basic.
Off hand, I would suggest switching sprint to R. I actually use that as my jump key because I have spamable abilities set to my spacebar just like I do in space. Or if the game's native keybind functionality doesn't work for you or for some other reason all your readily reachable keys are already occupied and you don't want to reassign sprint off of shift, a program like autohotkey should let you take... say... the back button on the side of most mice that many people never use for anything and have that send shift, and can even make it so it only does that when STO is open. This wouldn't make the shift key stop working normally, it would just let you use that button on your mouse to send shift as well.
So, my advice to anyone who doesn't enjoy ground gameplay in STO, isn't to hope the devs will change it, because it is very unlikely to radically change any time in the near future, if ever. Also, it's probably that you just haven't figure out how to do it right, or perhaps more accurately, right for you, and so you don't like it.
Instead, try to figure out what YOU can do to make ground better for you. Find out what you don't like about ground specifically, and do some research of your own, ask people here or on reddit or on the many discords what can be done about it. "I die too easily." There's gear and skills and tactics for that. "I can't kill anything." There's gear and skills and tactics for that. "there are too many powers I have to keep clicking/pressing that I want on auto" there are multi-key keybinds and programs for that.
So in closing, my fellow treckers, ask not what the devs can do to improve your ground combat, ask what YOU can do to improve your ground combat.
that said, Cryptic is pgood with the flexibility and customization when it comes to gameplay. my husband mostly has to play using one hand due to an injury, and in fact, stopped playing their other game, Neverwinter, when they did the whole change-everything-and-reduce-build-options-update because it made playing for him very difficult.
anyway, there are a lot of things / control systems you can adjust, separately for ground and space, that should make handling those sections easier. look under the esc - options - controls section. you can semi-automate things based on tuning the autofire setup, and only worry about pressing the ability (and movement) keys - and not even having to target anything if you want. much like things you can setup for space combat
and yes, rebinding a key here and there will make things even more comfortable
and i'll echo wrathofachilles here: if you (in general, not you specifically) don't even try to gear up properly (equipment, abilities, traits, officers, etc.) for ground, you are just perpetuating a cycle of annoyance and failure much like it would happen in space combat.
thankfully, STO is very very build friendly so you can customize things in a way to suit your general playstyle, even separately for space and ground.
Like with space, I don't focus on DPS, I focus on surviving, not getting defeated. And I often do get through the stuff not getting defeated, and I really go ^_^ when I am the only on on team who does so.
And I like using the not so normal stuff......kligats, staff of Landru, those crystals that attract baddies, etc.
I prefer ground over space since teamplay in ground requires more thinking. Space is mostly copy paste builds for me and enjoy the DPS but ground team play is what I personally prefer.
Would I compare to SWTOR to STO as you suggested? Not really. SWTOR is more ground based and robust. Graphics, design and UI are far more superior than STO. It's like comparing apples to bananas. Each have its own unique engines able to cater to different play styles.
IMO I missed the older ground PvEs. At times older PvEs did not need a team to finish an entire PVE. Those with hard core ground skills were able to solo the older Starbase 24 (yes there used to be a ground SB24), "Breaking the Planet" or "Big Dig" solo style. It was a nice challenge to do on your own and now these have been retired for the most part.
For me these days, the most exciting ground events are either AoS or the rare Colony Simulation when being run by my fleet.
The melee animations are rather basic for the most part (if you are expecting fancy and graceful moves like BDO or ESO you will be disappointed) but most people just seem to use ranged weapons anyway.
It is also not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination, and the effect spam usually makes shooter mode nearly impossible to aim in group scenarios, and the maximum range is very short by shooter standards though not as much as a lot of the other MMORPGs out there. Their MMO mode tab targeting is not bad though. I have used the keymapping to map ground roll to mouse button 4 because doing from the already overstuffed keyboard is a bit clumsy.
You usually have between one and four NPCs on the ground with you, and STOs system for them works better than most. Combat pets (not your away team) usually don't hang around long and it seems only the KDF gets one in the early missions (the Jackal Mastiff) though combat pets are showing up as event prizes more and more.
All in all, it could use some work but it is quite playable once you find the gear style you like the best (there are a lot of weapons to choose from and most of them feel different for instance).
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
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Most of my captains, and their crews, have some kind of flavor to them, but I largely consider ground combat to be a joke now with the inclusion of lockbox and event kit modules/traits. My temporal 'fire wizard' obliterates anything and everything that so much as attempts to share the same air. I am looking forward to getting my silly 'necromancer' build(Assimilate, Weaponized Dark Matter, Gravimetric Traps, Chain Conduit Capacitor, Ba'ul Obelisk) up and running whenever I decide to level that character though.
I still find the ground combat to be as mechanically clunky as the first day I played the game. Hypos/consumables, and dodge rolls should be instant actions that don't wait for the current action to finish. Not only does it feel bad, but it also severely limits the potential for interesting encounter design/mechanics.
The game is not dynamic enough. If you try to attack while an enemy moves backward, you first have to finish trying to hit them before you can try again.
Walk. Hit. Walk. Miss. Walk. Hit.
That's no proper way to fight in a melee battle.
You need to be able to
- interrupt actions
- combine actions
with combining meaning doing things like charging and hitting at the same time. Some weapons like the Voth fangs allow for combining actions, which already makes them much more user friendly and appropriate to melee fights.
Other ones, like swords, do this also, but limitedly. Weapons like Lirpa's and Bat'leths are simply horrible in this respect.
Interruption is likely a broader issue since that isn't possible with most abilities.
Besides that, players' actions aren't sufficiently taken into account. If you roll backwards while a Borg drone is trying to assimilate you for instance, you'll still get assimilated. Because the game decided you were within range when the Borg intended to assimilate you - thus ignoring that you actually responded to that action.
The game is still an RPG, thus when the attack started, the game calculates the odds of hitting you. If you happen to initiate a defensive roll after the game rolled its d20, then it doesn't matter because the game already rolled the d20. Now... if it was turn based then maybe it would be easier to impliment rolling to evade an attack. Animation means nothing really. The dice rolls as soon as the "button" is pushed. We just don't see that dice roll.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
This makes no sense to me. I understand your explanation, but I find it odd that the game would work like that.
The rolling of the dice / the determination of the effect of a given action should be properly synced with the animation that is linked with the action.
Players can only react to visible animations, not to invisible calculations. So only when players see the animation, the action should take place and only then should the game determine whether you're hit or not.
Otherwise nothing the player does, would have any effect. The key thing in interactive media like computer games, is that the actions of the player should matter. Or you might as well watch a movie, if your actions don't influence what's happening on the screen.
I'm no Dev of course, so I have no idea about the technical feasabilities, but for me it seems the most important thing, to ensure that this principle is followed. It is the key component that sets games apart from other media. Players want their actions to make a difference.
Every time we fire a weapon, it rolls a d20 to hit.
I agree that being able to react should matter, and does seem to matter a lot in space, but ground its probably different. I don't know, I'm no programmer either. I just know that every action in combat has a dice roll. When that roll happens is probably the core issue.
Certain actions in space probably override rolls, like Temporal Backstep or the pilot barrel roll, but others are still subject to timing of the invisible roll.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Me personally, I wouldn't mind at least getting a rudamentary cover mechanic. Even if its just a minor defense bonus for crouching behind an object or hiding around a corner.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
That is not what I am saying. I am not of the mold of remove this because I do not like it or hate it. I am not telling you what to believe or say. Though I do wish you were less cold and less napalm when you say it.
I don't see any of that myself... I don't even know how you can oneshot things on the ground. I can overwhelm them with Drones on my Romulan Engie, or freeze the hell out of them on my TOS Sci, but none of my characters can just walk in like they own the place and vaproize anything they look at.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
My main game used to be CO for a long time, and it does feel clunkier than STO ground. Unfortunately, that and the fact that CO has less open content and tends to be more focused on static missions instead of the equivalent of TFOs can make it hard to get back into (even all the forced respecs, vehicles, and practically unrecognizable crafting system don't make it seem any less stale).