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klingon elite to'duj fighter squadron broken?
is there a reason elite hangars make like 1000k dmg less than die blue regular build in pets?
i use them with
- ship trait: Superior Area Denial
- space trait: Wing Commander
- space-skills, coordination protocols + offensice coordination, hangar health + hangar weaponry
see elite pet dmg
blue hangar pets
i use them with
- ship trait: Superior Area Denial
- space trait: Wing Commander
- space-skills, coordination protocols + offensice coordination, hangar health + hangar weaponry
see elite pet dmg
blue hangar pets
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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This has been covered in many other threads at this point AND on the sto wiki.
Hangar pets that use cannons often have a turret, but at basic and advanced levels they get a lesser type of turret called a Pulse Cannon. This is typically replaced with a real turret at the elite level. Ordinarily that's a good thing... but pulse cannons interact with the Superior Area Denial trait to do more damage than a turret would.. or even regular cannons... SAD turns pulse cannons into a 360 degree dual heavy cannon or something nastier.
That's why, with SAD, you're often going to have higher damage with Advanced pets than Elite pets. It has nothing to do with firing arcs or AI, just a quirky trait thing.
If you stop using SAD you'll see the average damage ramps down and the elite pets will do more than the advanced or basic.
i thoughts went in the same direction. but i thoguh about those two different fire modes. not seeing that the weaponry actually change or that SAD do more bonus to pulse versions of those cannons
i can see that while testing. but not entirely as you discribe. it either comes down to the fact, that pulse versions of those cannons are plain higher in dmg, or that they might just mixed up the blue and elite DMG for klingon TO'DUJ pets. i just tested it and the advanced fighters still clearly do more dmg than elite. even without SAD trait. roughly up to 2/3 more. the blue ones do the 1k easily without SAD which makes them even stronger than advanced version. using SAD with those two will end up in roughly identical dmg between blue and advanced. only elite shows way less dmg with both settings (SAD/no SAD). so my initial thinking, about those elite fighters beeing broken might just be true. reports from a fleet mate with jem'hadar carrier says, that those new jem'hadar pets do the dmg properly from blue to elite. it climbs up as one can expect. a test of another fleet mate with romulan version indicates, that the fighters are just as broken as the klingon version. blue dmg there is also easy up around 1k dmg. but since romulan reputation is currently unavailable we weren't able to test the romulan elite pets to compare.
buttom line: i'm more than happy with the adavend fighters + SAD combined dmg output for pve. you litrally just need to stand there and let them do the rest
i just wish i had knew that before spending 80k dilithium into the elite squadrons
I know of one or two that are often discussed, but if there is a complete list it would be very helpful - possibly something to be stickied on the forums, if it is not already?
when it comes to the jem'hadar pets switching from having pulse cannons to real cannons, it seems there is no difference in dmg dealt. but i can double check that specificly later this day.
i also have the caitian carrier. but without any trait except fleet general (which has only an effect on the pets EP). the pets also make the expectet "dmg-climb-up" from blue to elite. i can't wait to get my hands on scramble fighters trait and SAD for that one too to finish a full build up exotic dmg dealer with those escalating pets around
(i forgot to mention that i also use scramble fighters trait on that klingon of mine since i was lucky enough to get one out of delta dof box. quit hard to get SAD trait on starfleet side though
I can assure you that pulse cannons will be doing the vast majority of your damage if you use Superior Area Denial - in everyone's tests the pulse cannon scatter volley has typically accounted for 70% or more of a given pet's damage dealt. This isn't new to the Support Carriers pets, it has been the case for a while now, and is the reason that for cannon-using pets the Advanced versions are preferred to the Elite versions in most cases, assuming the use of SAD.
Pulse cannons do less damage than turrets ordinarily, but when under the effects of scatter volley they do significantly more.
If you're doing your own testing then don't do the mix-and-match test where you use two different types of hangar pets at the same time and compare their performance - you want to have exclusively one type or the other and just do the same content more than once. Unequip your ship weapons too while you do it. Other sources of damage and effect will result in inconsistency in your results.
This is not a consistent truth, no. The squadron pets are a mixed bag... primarily the inconsistencies with their non-squadron counterparts are mistakes in their weapon loadout. They are meant to be identical to their non-squadron versions in performance, just different cosmetically.
The elite scorpion squadron still has its pulse cannon rather than a turret, so without SAD they will be inferior to normal elite scorpions. With SAD they will be superior to them.
The elite jem'hadar squadron does have the expected turret but also has a pulse cannon - they forgot to have it be a trade-off - so it is superior to the normal elite jem'hadar fighters both with and without SAD.
I have not test the stalkers (because I consider them a waste of resources... pets limited to only 2 ships, only one of which is T6) or the To'duj. I'll go check the latter at some point, but I'm never in a hurry to get new KDF pets - I've never seen anything I like better than House Mokai Raiders.
Nah, it has a lot to do with hangar pet AI, the AI is too poor to properly use cannons, its why cannons on pets are worse than beams.
I mean you are correct at how SAD works with pulse canons, but again there's a reason why cannon pets are generally considered bad and its because the devs refuse to revamp/rework their ai to actually use firing arcs properly