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Cross Faction Support Carrier Bundle!

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  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    Glad everyone likes them.. though I'll say I am surprised.

    They aren't terrible, but I am not impressed overall. They still have only 6 weapons, and they get nothing in exchange for that trade. They are still inferior to Flight Deck Carriers that have 2 hangar bays and maintain all their weapon hard points. They're 'science carriers' but they don't even get a secondary deflector as a trade off for the lack of hard points. Even as 'Science' carriers, the fleet version adds one.. engineering console slot. If it had the secondary and the fleet console gave you 5 science slots, you could make a pretty nice Science Carrier.

    Overall, this is really going to depend on the effectiveness of the Hangar Pets. Those pets are going to have to be really strong in order to make up for these ships short comings compared to even a C-Store FDC like the Cardassian Ghemor.

    The other disappointment, and a surprise to me is the copy/paste stats.. there is no difference between any of them outside of cosmetics. This will leave most people to just buying the Jem Hadar version or the Romulan Version since they each have something special (battle cloak or Wingmen) and can be used by any character. The Fed and KDF versions are going to be limited to people that must have a Caitian ship or love the Vo'Quv class. They could have done more to entice people to buy the bundle if the ships were unique. Throwing in the one shot items like Master Keys just isn't going to be enough to sell most people.

    Overall, not awful.. I do like the BoFF seating, and they look great.. but I won't consider a buy unless the pets prove to be among the best in the game. Otherwise, they're just as gimped out as the current crop of 'full carriers.'

    Disappointing indeed.

    I think we'll have to see what the DPS of the squadron fighters are. While I agree the ships will not be DPS powerhouses. I think we need to see how well the frigates and fighters work out. I've gotten 20k dps with 6 Elite Nausicaan Stinger fighters. Having 36 of them.... well... we shall see :smiley:
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    Hopefully to help entice any hype (more?) this Wednesday's Ten Forward Weekly will display these 4 ships right before release & will hopefully answer questions about whys or why nots with these 4 ships.
  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    We also need a legendary d'deridex.

    In TNG, D'deridex commanders really like to use intimidation to make their point.

    Quite often, there's a pair of D'deridexes cloaked, ready to reveal themselves at a moment's notice.

    Maybe the Legendary version could have a console/power that allows them to summon pair of lower-tiered D'deridex (like the T5s for example). There could be different ways of handling them, such as having a timer (one click, with a cooldown) or a toggle power; they could 'warp away' after the timer is done/when 'Red Alert' is over or they could just recloak and just hang around when out of combat.
  • istalon1istalon1 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    If there's going to be a special ability for Federation ships in general, it should fit their general theme.

    The Klingons are a militaristic power who like blowing stuff up with little regard for their own safety. The cloaking device with its damage buff kinda fits that niche, although Klingons aren't exactly sneaky.

    The Dominion is also militaristic, but they're more into blatant shows of force and overwhelming power, both in terms of quality and quantity. So, what's better than a massively powerful warship? Two extra ships escorting that warship and fighting by its side!

    Romulans are very sneaky, so they get even better cloaks than the Klingons as standard equipment for their ships. They can even disengage from combat with those cloaks, provided they can survive the short period in which they're targetable, but without shields.

    The Federation is not particularly militaristic or sneaky, so if they get a standard issue special mechanic for their ship, it should make them stand apart. Since the Federation seems to have pretty great support staff (as in, scientists and engineers) which doesn't seem to be that prominent in the other factions, and they're great explorers, I'd argue for some extra mechanics which goes into the direction of defense, system efficiency, crowd control, mobility or perception.

    > @shadowfirefly00 said:
    > One possibility would be a built-in passive that's a version of the repair nanites that are the full-set bonus from Desperate Defenses, or the field from the Protomatter Field Projector...

    That would be acceptable. Other ideas I had include:

    - Starfleet efficiency: A mechanic which gives some extra power depending on the situation, e.g. +20 weapon power when dishing out lots of energy damage, shield power when taking damage without retaliating much, engine power when moving at 100% throttle or full impulse out of combat, or aux in all other situations. Only one of the buffs can be active at a time and is decided upon automatically. If the system power including bonus power would exceed the limits for that system, it's taken out of the equation.

    - Standard Issue Tractor Beam: All Federation vessels come with an inbuilt tractor beam. But, I hear you say, that's already a boff ability, why would you want to add that as an innate one? Well, the cloak is basically a special version of mask energy signatures, so it's not entirely unprecedented.

    - Starfleet Officer Education: Clickable ability which reduces the cooldown of (All? Only defensive? Captain?) abilities by a certain amount. Maybe the Human species's species trait can be reworked to reduce the CD on this ability. IDK, maybe this one is a bit strong :grin:
  • splitboysplitboy Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    Missed opportunity imho.
    The Support Frigates should use the Vanguard Wing mechanic instead of the regular super random pet system.

    So in the End the Jem Carrier will be the closest thing to an actual support carrier as you have some control of at least a few pet powers.
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    splitboy wrote: »
    Missed opportunity imho.
    The Support Frigates should use the Vanguard Wing mechanic instead of the regular super random pet system.
    And it'd be easy to justify in-universe as the KDF, RRN, and Starfleet having evaluated the Vanguard Wing doctrine and deciding to test it on some new platforms...
  • istalon1istalon1 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    [quote="shadowfirefly00;c-13613368"][quote="splitboy;c-13613366"]Missed opportunity imho.
    The Support Frigates should use the Vanguard Wing mechanic instead of the regular super random pet system.[/quote]
    And it'd be easy to justify in-universe as the KDF, RRN, and Starfleet having evaluated the Vanguard Wing doctrine and deciding to test it on some new platforms...
    [/quote]

    There's even precedence for at least the Federation using that doctrine during the Dominion war anyway. In the large battle scenes, the Defiant was frequently escorted by two Mirandas.

    Which usually blew up after 5 seconds of screen time like the starship shaped redshirts they had become by the second half of the 24th century, but that's not the point.

    Sometimes, the Mirandas were replaced by two Birds of Prey, so there's an argument to be made that Klingons were experimenting with that doctrine as well.
    Post edited by istalon1 on
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    We also need a legendary d'deridex.

    In TNG, D'deridex commanders really like to use intimidation to make their point.

    Quite often, there's a pair of D'deridexes cloaked, ready to reveal themselves at a moment's notice.

    Maybe the Legendary version could have a console/power that allows them to summon pair of lower-tiered D'deridex (like the T5s for example). There could be different ways of handling them, such as having a timer (one click, with a cooldown) or a toggle power; they could 'warp away' after the timer is done/when 'Red Alert' is over or they could just recloak and just hang around when out of combat.
    splitboy wrote: »
    Missed opportunity imho.
    The Support Frigates should use the Vanguard Wing mechanic instead of the regular super random pet system.

    So in the End the Jem Carrier will be the closest thing to an actual support carrier as you have some control of at least a few pet powers.

    I agree with both posters' points & like their ideas.
  • ageroth1ageroth1 Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I'm loving this already. The carriers have been desperately needing some love over the years. The designs of the Catian and Romulan CVs in particular are my favorites.


    This idea of fighter squadrons, running what is effectively 36 craft at a time is also a wonderful idea, bringing the CV into line with what it's meant to do. Obviously, we'll have to see if it's like the groups of fighters that the Infinity Promo Connie has, or if each fighter is registered as its own unit, for a total of 36. We do need some consoles for bolstering the capabilities of hangar pets though.

    There's also a glitch still present within the 'recall' command that can cause hangar pets to get stuck inside the ship in some cases.

    Some folks are noting that the Caitian ship does need a bit more something to it, maybe three or four hangar slots, instead of the normal two if it's not going to get a cloak or extra support craft? Starfleet is known for its versatility and diversity, so maybe introduce a few different fighters varieties along with that, like some that are more based on defense, or raw firepower?

    I can also see this providing grounds to develop a brand new Akira escort CV variant that's more carrier focused.
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 778 Arc User
    garaffe wrote: »
    Ships look great! The console seems very interesting! Pricing is GREAT! The bundle looks like a great deal (though I am only interested in the Republic ship).

    Seems odd (wrong even) though, if I am not mistaken, that the Malem frigates use photon torpedos instead of plasma.

    The starship trait is a bit of a let down as I don't really see it being that useful.

    Overall, I think this is the first thing Cryptic has produced in well over a year that I have been truly excited about.

    No doubt and its so great that there is a vo'quv coming to the c-store finally!!! I'm so glad though that it wasn't just a copy and paste job and that its something worth the resources to spend on them although now I'm going to have to go full speed with the doff train.
  • ageroth1ageroth1 Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    Only downside is that the ships are not automatically Fleet level.

    Nah. The real and most important downside is that 5 of these carriers in the same TFO are going to lag the server hamsters into cardiac arrest!

    "Unlike normal fighter pets, each fighter launched is actually a squadron of six fighters As each hangar bay can deploy six squadrons, each hangar bay is ultimately responsible for up to 36 fighters."

    Well, having up to 72 fighters per CV is just the start. There's also the consumables to launch a wing each of Perigrines and Scorpions, Swarm Processor console, Swarmer Matrix console, Reinforcing Squadrons, and the Hivebearer trait that can all launch extra stuff. Probably get the one ship army count up to 100 every few minutes at this rate.

    Also, there's the battlezones and a TFo that can involve 20 ships. Let's all agree to fly these things for a week and only do the battlezones and Starbase Fleet Defense TFO. Put the servers through their paces :P

  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,743 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    Only downside is that the ships are not automatically Fleet level.

    Nah. The real and most important downside is that 5 of these carriers in the same TFO are going to lag the server hamsters into cardiac arrest!

    "Unlike normal fighter pets, each fighter launched is actually a squadron of six fighters As each hangar bay can deploy six squadrons, each hangar bay is ultimately responsible for up to 36 fighters."
    Holy Gerbil! I hadn't seen it that way! How many high end ships now has at least one Hangar? That means a typical 5 players poll could have anything between 30 and 180 hangar pets active at any given time! That basically means at least 5 times more ships . You think a match is laggy with 30 ships on? Think again!

    As you said, those poor creatures running the servers are having a stroke reading this!

    Thats just the carriers bays...now add on the fleet support, swarmer trait, the scorpion fighter device, the beacon of blindness, err Khaless, the swarm generating console amongst other pet generating abilities...I once (still do, I think) had a carrier build where I'd spam a literal armada for a few minutes while my jemmie carrier (for more pets) played Galactica with csv, 180 degree rockets spread fore and aft and rainbow heavies

  • tigeria#8677 tigeria Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    Love the carriers coming - question for the Dev's:

    According to the describtion of each carrier they have bigger hangars, and far more advanced networking to handle more pet's... so - why arent pet frigates ALSO squadroned? - if it can handle 72 opposed of 12 fighters, then it should be able to handle atleast twice or 3 times as many frigates.. ?

    Also - please keep squadrons to the Full carriers, for all other ships, the pet's are usually just an addition to a usual impressive weapon setup - giving them also squadrons would again render carriers less useful in comparison (as they still have the 3/3 weapon setup, and no 2nd deflector)
    - Tiger
  • schloopdooschloopdoo Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    I can understand someone preferring the Engineering-focused Flight Deck Cruisers if they enjoy using the Aux2Bat build, but I like how sciency carriers like the Vo'Quv, the Jupiter, and these latest offerings are. Loading the ship up with Science consoles and using Grav Well III to gather enemies together so allies can make best use of Cannon Scatter Volley and Torpedo Spread entertains me.
  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 893 Arc User
    schloopdoo wrote: »
    I can understand someone preferring the Engineering-focused Flight Deck Cruisers if they enjoy using the Aux2Bat build, but I like how sciency carriers like the Vo'Quv, the Jupiter, and these latest offerings are. Loading the ship up with Science consoles and using Grav Well III to gather enemies together so allies can make best use of Cannon Scatter Volley and Torpedo Spread entertains me.

    I just wish there was a starship trait to grant hangar pets Torp Spread.
  • lowestlvllowestlvl Member Posts: 604 Arc User
    the more times i read this. the more it sounds like a revert back to how carriers ran.
    There is no QA there is only ZUUL
    called out the bs and got BANNED. and i would gladly do it again.
  • psycherzpsycherz Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    I didn't read through the entire thread. So, I apologize if this has been asked and answered.

    "These Frigates may be equipped on any other full Carrier you own"

    What constitutes a "full carrier"? Anything with two hangars? Are Flight Deck Carriers "full Carriers"?
  • schloopdooschloopdoo Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    > @psycherz said:
    > I didn't read through the entire thread. So, I apologize if this has been asked and answered.
    >
    > "These Frigates may be equipped on any other full Carrier you own"
    >
    > What constitutes a "full carrier"? Anything with two hangars? Are Flight Deck Carriers "full Carriers"?

    That's my reading of it. You're just not going to have escorts with hangar bays pooping out other escorts.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,068 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Also - please keep squadrons to the Full carriers, for all other ships, the pet's are usually just an addition to a usual impressive weapon setup - giving them also squadrons would again render carriers less useful in comparison (as they still have the 3/3 weapon setup, and no 2nd deflector)

    That's a good point, but sadly, it's already too late. The idea of 'squadron pets' debuted with the Constitution Class Flight Deck Cruiser, and the D7 Class Flight Deck Carrier so they were already open to 'Flight Deck' Carriers before the Regular Carriers ever saw them.

    It used to be that 'Flight Deck' carriers were standard ships that also had the benefit of a single hangar bay. They were 'lesser' carriers but made up for that with the fact that they still maintained things like the full 8 weapon hard points. Full Carriers traded two of those hard points for the 2nd hangar bay. Now, the FDC get everything and Carriers get nothing so Carriers are just 'lesser' versions of well.. everything. The Squadron Pets are a good idea and they were very popular with the previously mentioned ships.. so they were thrown in for 'Full Carriers' to make them look a bit more passable. There is pretty much no chance that a mechanic like this will remain exclusive to 'lesser' style ship. This isn't something I like, it's just how Cryptic wants things.

    So far 'Squadron style' pets have not proven to have any significant DPS increase over standard hangar pets, it's mostly visual. While they certainly aren't 'bad' they're not the best either. Expecting these pets to make up for the shortcomings of losing 2 hard points for no reason at all doesn't seem feasible.


    psycherz wrote: »
    I didn't read through the entire thread. So, I apologize if this has been asked and answered.

    "These Frigates may be equipped on any other full Carrier you own"

    What constitutes a "full carrier"? Anything with two hangars? Are Flight Deck Carriers "full Carriers"?

    This follows typical Cryptic Rules. You gather as much information as you can from what's posted and you guess. We won't know until someone actually tries to equip the pets on another ship and of course.. there is no way to know before you spend the money.

    Cryptic lives up their name.. explanations aren't their strong suit. :lol:

    [Edit] - I caught part of the live steam, and Bort said the pets are usable by 'any carrier with 2 hangar bays.' So there ya go.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • uncharted2420uncharted2420 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    Question 1: For those that have the Vo'Quv Carrier T5 and Caitian Atrox carrier T5, as in bought and paid for, do we get an option to upgrade to the T6 versions or no?
    Question 2: When can we get more information about when Episodes 3 and 4 of the Civil War arc are deployed as I've played episodes one and two so many times it's not even funny.
  • voodoopokeyvoodoopokey Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    Question 1: For those that have the Vo'Quv Carrier T5 and Caitian Atrox carrier T5, as in bought and paid for, do we get an option to upgrade to the T6 versions or no?

    Given that these are far from the first T6 versions of older ships that have been released, and that they've never given free upgrades or even discounts to owners of the pre-T6 versions of ships, I'm not sure why you would even ask.

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,068 Arc User
    Question 1: For those that have the Vo'Quv Carrier T5 and Caitian Atrox carrier T5, as in bought and paid for, do we get an option to upgrade to the T6 versions or no?

    Yeah, I have to agree with voodoopokey.. that one, unfortunately.. is a pretty obvious no.

    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »
    KDF Carrier gets a cloak, Hull Strength: 1.45, Shield Modifier: 1.2
    ROM Carrier gets a battle cloak, Hull Strength: 1.4, Shield Modifier: 1.25
    JH Carrier gets Wingmen, Hull Strength: 1.25, Shield Modifier: 1.3
    Caitian Carrier gets nothing, Hull Strength: 1.4, Shield Modifier: 1.25

    So the Caitian Carrier, that gets no special thing, doesn't even get the best hull/shields or a bit more inertia? That seems wrong.
    IMO, since they are cats, you'd think they'd want a bit more agility on their ship. :D

    this is sad... :(
    meh

  • dkeith2011dkeith2011 Member Posts: 595 Arc User
    I'd still like to know if the Jupiter will ever get the squadron treatment.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,245 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »
    KDF Carrier gets a cloak, Hull Strength: 1.45, Shield Modifier: 1.2
    ROM Carrier gets a battle cloak, Hull Strength: 1.4, Shield Modifier: 1.25
    JH Carrier gets Wingmen, Hull Strength: 1.25, Shield Modifier: 1.3
    Caitian Carrier gets nothing, Hull Strength: 1.4, Shield Modifier: 1.25

    So the Caitian Carrier, that gets no special thing, doesn't even get the best hull/shields or a bit more inertia? That seems wrong.
    IMO, since they are cats, you'd think they'd want a bit more agility on their ship. :D

    this is sad... :(

    You say sad...I say about damn time.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,068 Arc User
    dkeith2011 wrote: »
    I'd still like to know if the Jupiter will ever get the squadron treatment.

    They said on the live stream that the pets from these carriers will work on 'any 2 hanger carrier,' which would include the Jupiter. Of course, in order to get access to those pets you would have to buy at least one of these carriers and if you had any of these carriers it would seem silly to use the Jupiter instead since it's absolutely terrible. :lol:
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    Before I forget since they mentioned it too a bit at the beginning of this week's 10FW stream I hope they're all staying safe as possible out there with the pandemic & the fires!!!

    I still think all 4 Support Carriers look really nice. I really like how their hangar bays are emphasized compared to like shuttle bays. I still think 3 hangar bays would've been a nice feature but Cryptic addressed that briefly & potential complications. The Elite Support Frigates, at least the Malem was shown, looks worth upgrading to Elite but the Elite Scorpion didn't look much better. I'm sure the other faction Support Frigates & Squadrons will be comparable. I still think that the Jem'Hadar exclusive feature gives it a bit of a nudge for being better or at least cooler. The KDF can cloak, the Rom has Battle Cloak, & the Fed has ... a now canonized litter scoop.

  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,849 Arc User
    you know, many things come to mind when i look at the T6 catbus...a litter scoop is not one of them​​
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  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    Special Introductory Pricing Discount! From August 20th at 8am PT (17:00 CEST) until August 24th at 10am PT (19:00 CEST) on PC, you can get these ships for 2400 ZEN each when purchased individually, or a bundle with all four ships, four Fleet Ship modules, and 5 Master Keys for the price of 8000 ZEN!

    The Master Keys are missing from the C-Store. I know that 5 keys don't add up to much, considering how many keys a player is apt to need to eventually get, let's say a T6 lockbox ship, but still it was supposed to be in the Cross Faction Support Carrier bundle.
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