Guys, knock it off with the flamethrowers already. Say your peace but keep it civil and leave the political and personal stuff out of it. If yall want to talk about that stuff there's proper times and places for that, but this forum is not one of them.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
> @redwren89 said: > (Quote) > > Pro and cons of taking your chance with the exchange. > > They are so expensive that people may not feel they are valuable enough to buy. > > The stats aren't so great in comparison to other ships in their promo caliber. > > The bundle description is so ambiguous that it may put people off buying to begin with. > > This may result in fewer sellers and reduced demsnd that may drive down prices on the exchange. It's a tough bet because the sheer expense of the mudd bundle may keep ec prices high for quite a while. > > Are there other ships you want to fly? They would be much better value for money and way more accessible. > > Edit: hang on a minute. Aren't these ships cstore and therefore impossible to sell on the exchange?
I have a handfull of characters with the T5 versionsbof the temporal ships from some time ago. Of those, only have one that I would like to have the T6 ones on for funsies. With that said, I got the T6 MU escort some time ago on that character. For one ship that I would like on only one character for theming, this pack isn't worth it to me.
I have a ton of other ships sitting around that I've gotten from either stipend purchases over the years, promos, or in-game events. Not really an issue there. Just really was going for something different.
To my knowledge, these come off as account bound. Unless something is fubar'd, these shouldn't be able to be traded or sold on the exchange.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Mudd's not spoiling that much since he hasn't been helped with a Zen Charge Bonus!!
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes. How would you suggest we not have anecdotal evidence? Run a poll? Demand Cryptic release their data? All the average player has to go by is to see how Cryptic acts. Any change in modus operandi will naturally be seen as evidence of reaction to a loss of revenue.
I'll add to the anecdotal. I know a guy who was spending about $400 a year on STO. Cryptic pissed him off with something and hasn't spent a dime in nearly 2yrs. Sure it's not thousands of dollars a year but if enough people of similar outlook shut their wallets...
If the Verne is not popular, why do you see very few on the Exchange and at higher than normal prices for a Lockbox Ship. Remember, we went through lots of ups and downs with the Wells in its day, sometimes climbing into to 750 million range.
What people are asking for a ship can be very different than what people are willing to pay. That's why when you check eBay before posting stuff, you check the completed sold items, not the currently offered items.
If I post a small hypospray for 1M EC, doesn't mean it's real value is 1M EC
Good morning Captains - as part of the Memorial Day festivities, we've decided to extend the 50% off sale on the new Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Bundle - it will now be available for the sale price until June 4th!
Good morning Captains - as part of the Memorial Day festivities, we've decided to extend the 50% off sale on the new Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Bundle - it will now be available for the sale price until June 4th!
The question is if we're getting a zen charge bonus along with this. I probably won't be touching this pack, even with 50% off at $150.
Good morning Captains - as part of the Memorial Day festivities, we've decided to extend the 50% off sale on the new Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Bundle - it will now be available for the sale price until June 4th!
That's nice. But for the rest of the items 50% off an item marked up 600% isn't much of a deal.
I probably won't be touching this pack, even with 50% off at $150.
Yeah, many game companies have given up on the 'micro' part of microtransactions. We're far into the land of macrotransactions now! Needs to be an "International Video Game Whale Appreciation Day" to salute all those with excessive disposable income who keep our F2P games running! Let's just co-op World Whale Day for it. So next Feb 15th be sure to /e salute a game whale!
Good morning Captains - as part of the Memorial Day festivities, we've decided to extend the 50% off sale on the new Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Bundle - it will now be available for the sale price until June 4th!
Regardless of what people thing about the bundle. I think extending the sale is a good thing. With times being tough for a lot of people right now. Extended length sales, like 2 weeks at a minimum, give people more of an opportunity to determine if they can spare the cash to spend on these items.
I hope the secret sale is the re-introduction of the Legendary bundle at 50% off and to be available for the next 2 weeks as well.
Good morning Captains - as part of the Memorial Day festivities, we've decided to extend the 50% off sale on the new Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Bundle - it will now be available for the sale price until June 4th!
Thank you for extending the sale, but don't think i will change my mind about (not) making a purchase.
Perhaps we should rename the section to Mudd's resource area one.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Good morning Captains - as part of the Memorial Day festivities, we've decided to extend the 50% off sale on the new Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Bundle - it will now be available for the sale price until June 4th!
That's nice. But for the rest of the items 50% off an item marked up 600% isn't much of a deal.
This is something I feel hasn't been spoken of enough. By jacking the prices in the MM they've not only got a way to sucker some unfortunate people into paying 5 times as much as they should for this, but those items also never actually go on sale. Our supposed "sale" prices are still overpriced versions of what we should be paying at maximum. I know they had to backpedal because they didn't want any legal trouble with false sale advertising, but this is still cold, man.
Unlikely. Typically if they're going to do a charge bonus they will do it in tandem with the release of new material with a ZEN cost because otherwise they're punishing early adopters rather than rewarding them, and they like people who excitedly buy things the moment they come out.
I suspect they watch a select set of social channels (their threads on this forum included, to a degree) to see what people's response is between announcing an upcoming release and the actual release, and if they interpret people's response as it not being worth the intended price they "adjust" it with a charge bonus rather than changing the price since the latter would let people know they're actually concerned with making sales. If people's response is generally favourable they don't.
I think they made a mistake by tying this bundle to the "Mudd Market" which openly involves things being dramatically overpriced but discounted to just slightly overpriced as "sales". The gimmick isn't as funny as they think it is, especially to people spending actual money. The bundle could easily have been presented as a simple zen store bundle the way the legendary ships were, and discounted directly... and then it wouldn't have been tainted by the rather sour mudd "costs more than its worth" idea.
I really thought that when the Bentham Crusier debuted with only a 60% Discount it was going to be accompanied with a general 50% decrease in the list prices of all the other stuff in Mudd's Market permanently. The stuff with a 60% Sale would net them the same as something at twice the price with 80% off.
Same net intake, but would go a long way PR-wise with complaints about 'Mugg's Market' and such. It would also lessen the chance that people would be ripped off egregiously if they bought at list because they didn't know better.
Large Bundles like this should also be debuted with a concurrent Zen Charge Bonus.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Naming Mudd's Market after one of the canonically most noxious (if amusing) crooks in the Trek universe is at least accurate.
My take on the pricing of ANY account-wide T6 ship, whether its in a bundle, a lockbox, or any other source: it's worth 3000 zen. Period. I don't care how rare it is, or whether or not it's somehow mechanically superior to a similar ship. Those things are not my problem, and definitely do not factor into how much I can be coaxed into paying for them. For presumably a maximum of 8 ships (3 Temp Sci, 3 Temp Dest, 2 Z-store), this pack is, at most, worth 24000 zen. This doesn't even go into the purely subjective question of the value of ships I would never bother using, which reduces an individual ship's value to zero. That personal factor aside, 15000 Zen would be a viable deal for me, if I wanted to throw that much at one time at this game. I don't. Charging almost 30000 Zen for it at a "normal" price, and then offering a "sale" is still deceptive marketing, and always will be. Selling this pack at 14750 Zen is not a 50% sale; it's about 38.5%.
If you need math assistance again, in the future, feel free to ask.
Well it seems to me over the last several months, not always, but mostly Cryptic has been cutting-back on the discount amount when there's sales. A -30% is now -25% or even -20%, but I'd guess enough people are still buying.
I think the offerings in this bundle are a decent selection, but I'm just not moved to buy with this price point for the quantity & quality of the products offered, but that's just me.
I don't look at this sale as a generous offering or "spoiling" us customers beyond title only. It's not terrible, but not good subjectively.
Since they started putting a Promotion Ship in the Lobi Store for the Weekend Lobi Sales, the Lobi Store Discount went from 30% to 20%.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
A Jem'Hadar Character probably can claim the Ship of their Allied Faction, Federation or KDF. Not the Romulan.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I could choose the Amarie, the Klein and the 10 ultimate upgrades and it still wouldn't seem worth the zen to me, especially not at the regular price of the pack.
I'm seeing a lot of confusion in this thread, so I'm gonna attempt to clarify again, although a huge thank you to the people who have tried this already.
This bundle has six possible items you can claim from it. When you purchase the bundle, you can choose any three of those. The six items are:
Amarie - an Account unlock, reclaimable on all characters
Temporal Science Vessels - Account Unlock, you get the faction appropriate ship on all characters
Temporal Destroyers - Account Unlock, you get the faction appropriate ship on all characters
10x Ultimate Tech Upgrades
2x 100% off Any Ship in the Zen Store
1 Phoenix Epic Prize Token
Again, you can choose any three of those. You can pick all three ships if you like, and that would be your bundle. You can pick two ships and the upgrades. You can pick one ship, the upgrades, and two free ships in the Zen Store. You can pick the Upgrades, the free ships, and the phoenix token.
The only thing you cannot do is buy the pack twice, and claim the same ship from it again. If you already claimed the Amarie, for example, it is now an account unlocked ship and you already have it on all of your characters, so we're not going to let you waste money by claiming it again. The only things you can claim multiple times are the things that aren't account unlocks, which are the upgrades, the coupons, and the token.
I don't care if someone at Cryptic takes offensive but I find this part: "so we're not going to let you waste money by claiming it again. The only things you can claim multiple times are the things that aren't account unlocks," a very disingenuous statement since I see many items cluttering-up my Mudd Market options as still able to be purchased even after I've unlocked them for account-wide from events.
The statement & sentiment are good & would be appreciated but I find a lack of intent behind it by Cryptic. The T'Pau & S'torr ships are still being sold in Mudd's even after being account-wide unlocked by their previous events. Also, the Beacon of Khaless, Dinosaur, Lorca Armor, & Prior's Satellite are all too still being sold after being account-wide unlocked by events. Granted their packs includes (1) Ultimate Tech Upgrade as well so I'm not sure if that makes the selling of it after the main item being account-wide unlocked it even more devious.
I see no excuse for the T'Pau & S'torr still being offered for sale after being account-wide unlocked by events, or by a player(s) that missed the event(s) buying it through Mudd's except an intent that is contradictory to the quoted statement. I think there's a few items on the Phoenix list too that are like this.
Well let's look at the numbers if you select 3 of the 2x 100% T6 Tokens. That is 6 Tokens. T6 Ships at list price and not part of a Ship Bundle are 3,000 Zen. Six of those would be 18,000 Zen max. Now if you bought six single ships this Bundle sale would be saving you some money but only if you only bought at list and never buy a Bundle.
At the 29,500 Zen list you'd be paying 11,500 more for six Ships than if you paid list. That is 164%.
A Discount Selection Bundle should never consist of Components that can be put together in a manner that can cost more than its constituent parts.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't know... comparing this to the legendary ship pack - 10 starships, a load of consoles, traits and ship costumes, 10 ship slots - all that for a discounted price of 19'500 Zen. And now Mudd is "spoiling" us with 3 ships for 14'750 Zen? I think that offer is rather terrible in comparison.
> @reyan01 said: > Whilst this isn't a purchase I will make, the option of an Epic Phoenix token in this pack surprises me. I know they're as rare as rocking horse excrement but I really don't think they're valuable enough to warrant being included in a pack like this. Partly beause it would only have value as a method of obtaining ships - it isn't really worth using it for a few Phoenix upgrades since one of the other pack options is a stack of Ultimate upgrades. > > Though I guess if someone really was THAT desperate to obtain a ship that was, once-upon-a-time, free......
If they're willing to spend that much just for an epic prize token ship, then it's much more value to pay for Phoenix boxes with stockpiled dilithium. You never know, you can get lucky in your first ten 😂
Comments
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
> (Quote)
>
> Pro and cons of taking your chance with the exchange.
>
> They are so expensive that people may not feel they are valuable enough to buy.
>
> The stats aren't so great in comparison to other ships in their promo caliber.
>
> The bundle description is so ambiguous that it may put people off buying to begin with.
>
> This may result in fewer sellers and reduced demsnd that may drive down prices on the exchange. It's a tough bet because the sheer expense of the mudd bundle may keep ec prices high for quite a while.
>
> Are there other ships you want to fly? They would be much better value for money and way more accessible.
>
> Edit: hang on a minute. Aren't these ships cstore and therefore impossible to sell on the exchange?
I have a handfull of characters with the T5 versionsbof the temporal ships from some time ago. Of those, only have one that I would like to have the T6 ones on for funsies. With that said, I got the T6 MU escort some time ago on that character. For one ship that I would like on only one character for theming, this pack isn't worth it to me.
I have a ton of other ships sitting around that I've gotten from either stipend purchases over the years, promos, or in-game events. Not really an issue there. Just really was going for something different.
To my knowledge, these come off as account bound. Unless something is fubar'd, these shouldn't be able to be traded or sold on the exchange.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes. How would you suggest we not have anecdotal evidence? Run a poll? Demand Cryptic release their data? All the average player has to go by is to see how Cryptic acts. Any change in modus operandi will naturally be seen as evidence of reaction to a loss of revenue.
I'll add to the anecdotal. I know a guy who was spending about $400 a year on STO. Cryptic pissed him off with something and hasn't spent a dime in nearly 2yrs. Sure it's not thousands of dollars a year but if enough people of similar outlook shut their wallets...
What people are asking for a ship can be very different than what people are willing to pay. That's why when you check eBay before posting stuff, you check the completed sold items, not the currently offered items.
If I post a small hypospray for 1M EC, doesn't mean it's real value is 1M EC
The question is if we're getting a zen charge bonus along with this. I probably won't be touching this pack, even with 50% off at $150.
That's nice. But for the rest of the items 50% off an item marked up 600% isn't much of a deal.
Yeah, many game companies have given up on the 'micro' part of microtransactions.
Regardless of what people thing about the bundle. I think extending the sale is a good thing. With times being tough for a lot of people right now. Extended length sales, like 2 weeks at a minimum, give people more of an opportunity to determine if they can spare the cash to spend on these items.
I hope the secret sale is the re-introduction of the Legendary bundle at 50% off and to be available for the next 2 weeks as well.
Thank you for extending the sale, but don't think i will change my mind about (not) making a purchase.
Perhaps we should rename the section to Mudd's resource area one.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This is something I feel hasn't been spoken of enough. By jacking the prices in the MM they've not only got a way to sucker some unfortunate people into paying 5 times as much as they should for this, but those items also never actually go on sale. Our supposed "sale" prices are still overpriced versions of what we should be paying at maximum. I know they had to backpedal because they didn't want any legal trouble with false sale advertising, but this is still cold, man.
Unlikely. Typically if they're going to do a charge bonus they will do it in tandem with the release of new material with a ZEN cost because otherwise they're punishing early adopters rather than rewarding them, and they like people who excitedly buy things the moment they come out.
I suspect they watch a select set of social channels (their threads on this forum included, to a degree) to see what people's response is between announcing an upcoming release and the actual release, and if they interpret people's response as it not being worth the intended price they "adjust" it with a charge bonus rather than changing the price since the latter would let people know they're actually concerned with making sales. If people's response is generally favourable they don't.
I think they made a mistake by tying this bundle to the "Mudd Market" which openly involves things being dramatically overpriced but discounted to just slightly overpriced as "sales". The gimmick isn't as funny as they think it is, especially to people spending actual money. The bundle could easily have been presented as a simple zen store bundle the way the legendary ships were, and discounted directly... and then it wouldn't have been tainted by the rather sour mudd "costs more than its worth" idea.
Same net intake, but would go a long way PR-wise with complaints about 'Mugg's Market' and such. It would also lessen the chance that people would be ripped off egregiously if they bought at list because they didn't know better.
Large Bundles like this should also be debuted with a concurrent Zen Charge Bonus.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My take on the pricing of ANY account-wide T6 ship, whether its in a bundle, a lockbox, or any other source: it's worth 3000 zen. Period. I don't care how rare it is, or whether or not it's somehow mechanically superior to a similar ship. Those things are not my problem, and definitely do not factor into how much I can be coaxed into paying for them. For presumably a maximum of 8 ships (3 Temp Sci, 3 Temp Dest, 2 Z-store), this pack is, at most, worth 24000 zen. This doesn't even go into the purely subjective question of the value of ships I would never bother using, which reduces an individual ship's value to zero. That personal factor aside, 15000 Zen would be a viable deal for me, if I wanted to throw that much at one time at this game. I don't. Charging almost 30000 Zen for it at a "normal" price, and then offering a "sale" is still deceptive marketing, and always will be. Selling this pack at 14750 Zen is not a 50% sale; it's about 38.5%.
If you need math assistance again, in the future, feel free to ask.
I think the offerings in this bundle are a decent selection, but I'm just not moved to buy with this price point for the quantity & quality of the products offered, but that's just me.
I don't look at this sale as a generous offering or "spoiling" us customers beyond title only. It's not terrible, but not good subjectively.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't care if someone at Cryptic takes offensive but I find this part: "so we're not going to let you waste money by claiming it again. The only things you can claim multiple times are the things that aren't account unlocks," a very disingenuous statement since I see many items cluttering-up my Mudd Market options as still able to be purchased even after I've unlocked them for account-wide from events.
The statement & sentiment are good & would be appreciated but I find a lack of intent behind it by Cryptic. The T'Pau & S'torr ships are still being sold in Mudd's even after being account-wide unlocked by their previous events. Also, the Beacon of Khaless, Dinosaur, Lorca Armor, & Prior's Satellite are all too still being sold after being account-wide unlocked by events. Granted their packs includes (1) Ultimate Tech Upgrade as well so I'm not sure if that makes the selling of it after the main item being account-wide unlocked it even more devious.
I see no excuse for the T'Pau & S'torr still being offered for sale after being account-wide unlocked by events, or by a player(s) that missed the event(s) buying it through Mudd's except an intent that is contradictory to the quoted statement. I think there's a few items on the Phoenix list too that are like this.
At the 29,500 Zen list you'd be paying 11,500 more for six Ships than if you paid list. That is 164%.
A Discount Selection Bundle should never consist of Components that can be put together in a manner that can cost more than its constituent parts.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
> Whilst this isn't a purchase I will make, the option of an Epic Phoenix token in this pack surprises me. I know they're as rare as rocking horse excrement but I really don't think they're valuable enough to warrant being included in a pack like this. Partly beause it would only have value as a method of obtaining ships - it isn't really worth using it for a few Phoenix upgrades since one of the other pack options is a stack of Ultimate upgrades.
>
> Though I guess if someone really was THAT desperate to obtain a ship that was, once-upon-a-time, free......
If they're willing to spend that much just for an epic prize token ship, then it's much more value to pay for Phoenix boxes with stockpiled dilithium. You never know, you can get lucky in your first ten 😂