Please stop system automatic demotion for leaders of fleets...

dark4blood · March 2019

It seems like every day there is a new demotion I have to reinstate because the system put leader in demotion status due to inactivity. This seems REALLY unnecessary and is annoying if you don't notice and try to add people to your fleet which you can't if there is a leader demotion in process. I don't even understand why this feature exists, as if leaders need to be demoted they can be by other leaders, so again this automatic thing needs to stop.

baddmoonrizin · March 2019

That safety feature was put in place, so that if fleet leadership becomes inactive the fleet can be salvaged by active players who would then be automatically promoted to fleet leadership. It's not likely to be removed. I would suggest urging your leadership to become more active or demote them yourself and promote more active players.

Unknown · March 2019

This content has been removed.

aspartan1 · March 2019

It is a most excellent feature to ensure fleets continue especially when so very much has been invested by so many to have it all lost due to one player is farcical.

ilithyn · March 2019

Honestly? You have to log in once per month not to be demoted. Once. My own fleet is dead as hell, but I'd say that the ones who can't even manage to log in that often probably shouldn't be in a leadership position in the first place.
Like I go on extended hiati now and again, but if I couldn't even do the "pop in one time a month to see how it's all doing" I shouldn't be fleet leader. Someone else who's more committed should certainly take over.

stoutes · March 2019

dark4blood wrote: »

It seems like every day there is a new demotion I have to reinstate because the system put leader in demotion status due to inactivity. This seems REALLY unnecessary and is annoying if you don't notice and try to add people to your fleet which you can't if there is a leader demotion in process. I don't even understand why this feature exists, as if leaders need to be demoted they can be by other leaders, so again this automatic thing needs to stop.

You might want to read about the Caspian Division fleet and what caused it's downfall. That was the main reason this feature was created.

davefenestrator · March 2019

How many inactive "leaders" do you have if promoting them once a month becomes a painful struggle?

Unknown · March 2019

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mirrorchaos · March 2019

some former leaders are so invested and feel a sense of entitlement to what they left behind when they return. usually manifests in an ugly way when fleet control is given back and half the fleet is kicked out.

previous fleet leaders who have lost their position should not be allowed to take it back if they can't be bothered to log in and keep it, even if only for a few seconds per month. then that is on them.

frankly this system needs tweaking to include being on the game at least 3 hours per month in leadership role in order to qualify to remain in place, this is to avoid logging in for a few seconds a month to keep the position and doing nothing, simply to keep the position because of the above.

if a former fleet leader can't be bothered to take 3 hours to deal with fleet issues on STO, they should lose it and never be able to take it back, at most they can get an officer role, but not the leader role with that fleet. with any other fleet they can go for leadership if they wanted or create a new one. this is to avoid former fleet leaders from abusing their position.

baddmoonrizin · March 2019

That's a bit extreme @mirrorchaos , don't you think? "Necessary" Fleet business gamewise at a minimum is really only queueing up Fleet projects. That doesn't take more than a couple of minutes. Even logging in daily to do that might not hit your arbitrary threshold.

darkbladejk · March 2019

mirrorchaos wrote: »

some former leaders are so invested and feel a sense of entitlement to what they left behind when they return. usually manifests in an ugly way when fleet control is given back and half the fleet is kicked out.

previous fleet leaders who have lost their position should not be allowed to take it back if they can't be bothered to log in and keep it, even if only for a few seconds per month. then that is on them.

frankly this system needs tweaking to include being on the game at least 3 hours per month in leadership role in order to qualify to remain in place, this is to avoid logging in for a few seconds a month to keep the position and doing nothing, simply to keep the position because of the above.

if a former fleet leader can't be bothered to take 3 hours to deal with fleet issues on STO, they should lose it and never be able to take it back, at most they can get an officer role, but not the leader role with that fleet. with any other fleet they can go for leadership if they wanted or create a new one. this is to avoid former fleet leaders from abusing their position.

This is why you have safeguards in place so that this exact sort of thing doesn't happen. Myself and another friend run my fleet. If we're both away we leave the duties of the fleet to officers we can trust. If need be a toon is promoted to fleet admiral for the time being until we are able to return. If a fleet doesn't have safeguards in place or people that can keep it running until the leader(s) return, then that's poor planning on the part of the fleet leadership.

Real life will always trump game life. If I'm forced to step away due to real life, I'm going to handle my business before coming back because that's what adults do. If that business prevents me from being able to return for several months and I'm not able to log in, then oh well. This game is supposed to be fun and entertainment, not a job. There's more ways one can contribute to a fleet than purely marks grinding or so on.

As for a leadership role, let's suppose for whatever reason I stepped down as the admiral of my fleet tomorrow. Let's also suppose I'm gone for a couple years. If I then come back down the road and the new leader decides to hand leadership back to me, then why should they not be allowed to do so? It's no one's business how another fleet conducts their affairs.

As for the 3 hour mark you named, that's easily bypassable. All someone would have to do is sign in and let the timer run out on a toon for auto kick, reset and do it again. The system is fine where it is now. It's not perfect but it's better than not having it.

rattler2 · March 2019

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

"Necessary" Fleet business gamewise at a minimum is really only queueing up Fleet projects. That doesn't take more than a couple of minutes. Even logging in daily to do that might not hit your arbitrary threshold.

Not only that... not all fleets are able to roll fleet projects over like clockwork. Mine, for example, is still hung up on Dilithium as we're not that big a fleet. So realistically the "mandatory" fleet business is a non starter. And as darkblade has pointed out, can just sit around and do nothing for those three hours to run that clock down. Its fine as is.

I inherreted a fleet leadership position myself, but I do have people I trust backing me up. Also if my old fleet leader does come back from Real Life, I would gladly bump him back up because he is a good guy. Kinda like the scenario darkblade pointed out about being away for a long time.

baddmoonrizin · March 2019

@rattler2 I hear ya. I soloed my Starbase to Tier 1 before Armadas came out. That was rough. The Armada I joined has been a great help in getting projects flipped. Leveled Dilithium, Embassy, and now closing in on final projects for K13. Are you in an Armada?

rattler2 · March 2019

Yea. Luckilly my fleet's already got everything but the Colony to max tier. But seems like even the armada is reluctant to donate Dilithium right now. And has been for a while. Also... no one seems to be talking in Armada chat either. Might have to poke it next time I'm on.

In my personal case... its because I'm actually doing The Crazy again and grinding for the Discovery Ops pack. But everyone seems to be working on personal projects, be it upgrades or getting gear, which is understandable. But it is pretty much all on us for dilithium right now.

mirrorchaos · March 2019

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

That's a bit extreme @mirrorchaos , don't you think? "Necessary" Fleet business gamewise at a minimum is really only queueing up Fleet projects. That doesn't take more than a couple of minutes. Even logging in daily to do that might not hit your arbitrary threshold.

not necessarily, because fleet leadership business goes beyond the usual mundane which you mention, there is planning events, who does what, what comes next, who gets promoted, demoted.. it isn't as simple of logging in for a few minutes. these things do take time to plan out and if the fleet leader isn't around and the officers have to make do in lieu of a missing fleet leader, it is made more difficult because the officers can't do some of the things a missing fleet leader can.

what is extreme is a fleet leader MIA for almost a month before logging for a few moments and do it again and again. a 3 hour limit would force the fleet leader to come on and plan regardless, now it doesn't have to be all 3 hours in one go, the leader can come on say 30 minutes and cover 6 days over that month and be able to not only meet the requirements, but it keeps the fleet operational. it isn't there to punish the fleet leader, it is there to keep them honest about their position so they can't punish everyone else for leaving and holding the bag of crud.

the same with a former fleet leader not able to regain control of their fleet, if they made no effort to come back within the limit, that is on them, why should the rest of the fleet have to suffer for that?

mirrorchaos · March 2019

darkbladejk wrote: »

mirrorchaos wrote: »

some former leaders are so invested and feel a sense of entitlement to what they left behind when they return. usually manifests in an ugly way when fleet control is given back and half the fleet is kicked out.

previous fleet leaders who have lost their position should not be allowed to take it back if they can't be bothered to log in and keep it, even if only for a few seconds per month. then that is on them.

frankly this system needs tweaking to include being on the game at least 3 hours per month in leadership role in order to qualify to remain in place, this is to avoid logging in for a few seconds a month to keep the position and doing nothing, simply to keep the position because of the above.

if a former fleet leader can't be bothered to take 3 hours to deal with fleet issues on STO, they should lose it and never be able to take it back, at most they can get an officer role, but not the leader role with that fleet. with any other fleet they can go for leadership if they wanted or create a new one. this is to avoid former fleet leaders from abusing their position.

This is why you have safeguards in place so that this exact sort of thing doesn't happen. Myself and another friend run my fleet. If we're both away we leave the duties of the fleet to officers we can trust. If need be a toon is promoted to fleet admiral for the time being until we are able to return. If a fleet doesn't have safeguards in place or people that can keep it running until the leader(s) return, then that's poor planning on the part of the fleet leadership.

Real life will always trump game life. If I'm forced to step away due to real life, I'm going to handle my business before coming back because that's what adults do. If that business prevents me from being able to return for several months and I'm not able to log in, then oh well. This game is supposed to be fun and entertainment, not a job. There's more ways one can contribute to a fleet than purely marks grinding or so on.

As for a leadership role, let's suppose for whatever reason I stepped down as the admiral of my fleet tomorrow. Let's also suppose I'm gone for a couple years. If I then come back down the road and the new leader decides to hand leadership back to me, then why should they not be allowed to do so? It's no one's business how another fleet conducts their affairs.

As for the 3 hour mark you named, that's easily bypassable. All someone would have to do is sign in and let the timer run out on a toon for auto kick, reset and do it again. The system is fine where it is now. It's not perfect but it's better than not having it.

all of which is moot because if you start a fleet and let your officers take more and more of your duties which you should be doing yourself and you don't intend to giveaway control of the fleet to someone else who can run it, then you have created a situation where your officers as much as you trust them begin to wonder where you are, what you are doing, what do they do next and is it worth continuing. there will be times where your presence is required to keep people happy and help direct things and questions with your own experience.

it doesn't matter if you have a real life, if you don't make the effort to put time into your fleet, you shouldn't be running it.

baddmoonrizin · March 2019

@mirrorchaos Some of what you're describing are things outside the in-game Fleet System, especially with regard to planning events. That's not really a feature of the system, and more something that players can do within their respective Fleets if they choose.

You describe officers running day-to-day Fleet business, even if the Fleet Leader is MIA for a month. Ok. Then the Fleet is being managed. Sounds more to me like you're more concerned with who "owns" the Fleet rather than who's running it. For all you know, the Fleet Leader could keep in communication with Fleet Officers outside of the game to keep things running, but only has time to login on occasion.

You're trying to dictate how Fleets operate, but not all players can fit into a cookie cutter mold. Some are going to be less available than others. Sometimes real life suddenly calls you away. These are not things that a player should be "punished" for, and exactly why a more fair and impartial system is in place.

casualsto · March 2019

Complaining cause you can't keep people's contributions prisoner to a stash in a game you no longer play?

darkbladejk · March 2019

mirrorchaos wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

That's a bit extreme @mirrorchaos , don't you think? "Necessary" Fleet business gamewise at a minimum is really only queueing up Fleet projects. That doesn't take more than a couple of minutes. Even logging in daily to do that might not hit your arbitrary threshold.

not necessarily, because fleet leadership business goes beyond the usual mundane which you mention, there is planning events, who does what, what comes next, who gets promoted, demoted.. it isn't as simple of logging in for a few minutes. these things do take time to plan out and if the fleet leader isn't around and the officers have to make do in lieu of a missing fleet leader, it is made more difficult because the officers can't do some of the things a missing fleet leader can.

what is extreme is a fleet leader MIA for almost a month before logging for a few moments and do it again and again. a 3 hour limit would force the fleet leader to come on and plan regardless, now it doesn't have to be all 3 hours in one go, the leader can come on say 30 minutes and cover 6 days over that month and be able to not only meet the requirements, but it keeps the fleet operational. it isn't there to punish the fleet leader, it is there to keep them honest about their position so they can't punish everyone else for leaving and holding the bag of crud.

Ideally a fleet leader will be able to be present in some form or fashion, but sometimes life happens and they simply can't be around. Fleet permissions can be set so that the officers can do everything the fleet leader can do, save of course promote to fleet leader. At that point the only difference between them and an actual leader is virtually the title rank only and the armada stuff.

Once again, people can simply log in, let the clock run out 3 times and boom there you go, there's your 3 hours doing something so simple a 5yr old could figure it out. It can't be overstated how easy something like that would be to bypass. If the fleet is properly operated and plans in place a leader can step away for a time and the fleet keep going. In fact I have been keeping watch on one of the beta fleets in my armada for close to a year while the main guy has job obligations. In the very near future he will have time to be on again as he was before, however right now his real life comes first. The fleet is still going and people are still around because I have a couple officer toons in his fleet. Once more a contingency plan was put in place. As far as events go those folks are included in any and all events my fleet runs until he returns. When he gets time he hops on for a few minutes to check in on everything and then goes back to his obligations. His members understand real life comes first. Quantity of time spent in game does not equal quality of time spent.

mirrorchaos wrote: »

the same with a former fleet leader not able to regain control of their fleet, if they made no effort to come back within the limit, that is on them, why should the rest of the fleet have to suffer for that?

mirrorchaos wrote: »

all of which is moot because if you start a fleet and let your officers take more and more of your duties which you should be doing yourself and you don't intend to giveaway control of the fleet to someone else who can run it, then you have created a situation where your officers as much as you trust them begin to wonder where you are, what you are doing, what do they do next and is it worth continuing. there will be times where your presence is required to keep people happy and help direct things and questions with your own experience.

it doesn't matter if you have a real life, if you don't make the effort to put time into your fleet, you shouldn't be running it.

I grouped these last sections together as I will address them at once.

First and foremost, real life ALWAYS trumps virtual in game life. Sometimes in life you have obligations and responsibilities that come before your virtual life and plans don't always work out as you hoped. Games won't last forever and are easily replaced. Even this game will not last forever. Games and objects are easily replaced, real life you only get to live once. Welcome to the real world and being an adult. Far as I'm concerned if I ever had to make the choice between living my life or sticking to this game, I would be gone from this game tomorrow. Plus I'm sure a few folks here on the forums wouldn't be complaining to see me go either lols.

Here's the thing you need to understand, no one is holding a gun to your head, or a phaser in this case, and telling you that you simply must play the game or simply must stay in the fleet you're in. If you don't like how your current fleet is run, you can always talk to your fleet leaders. If you don't want to talk to them or can't, then you always have the option to leave. You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

If someone puts their virtual life ahead of their real life, then they have more serious problems and don't need to be playing the game. Real life ALWAYS comes first. Once more, welcome to the real world and being an adult.

davefenestrator · March 2019

darkbladejk wrote: »

First and foremost, real life ALWAYS trumps virtual in game life. Sometimes in life you have obligations and responsibilities that come before your virtual life and plans don't always work out as you hoped. Games won't last forever and are easily replaced. Even this game will not last forever. Games and objects are easily replaced, real life you only get to live once. Welcome to the real world and being an adult. Far as I'm concerned if I ever had to make the choice between living my life or sticking to this game, I would be gone from this game tomorrow. Plus I'm sure a few folks here on the forums wouldn't be complaining to see me go either lols.

Here's the thing you need to understand, no one is holding a gun to your head, or a phaser in this case, and telling you that you simply must play the game or simply must stay in the fleet you're in. If you don't like how your current fleet is run, you can always talk to your fleet leaders. If you don't want to talk to them or can't, then you always have the option to leave. You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

I just want to add: and Cryptic doesn't own us anything when real life does take precedence.

It seems like for every event there are at least one or two threads insisting that the event needs to be extended or replayed later because of their real life circumstances. "I had to work so I couldn't get this event ship" and so on.

Real life should take precedence, but when it does we need to accept that it means missing out on some virtual shiny now and then.

warpangel · March 2019

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself. Namely this:

darkbladejk wrote: »

You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

darkbladejk · March 2019

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself. Namely this:

darkbladejk wrote: »

You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

The point is that the fleet isn't going to just hand you everything for free. Simply because you've joined doesn't mean you are owed anything. Too many that I've observed today seem to think they should have immediate bank and store access and that simply isn't going to happen without them earning it. You want something you earn it.

Unknown · March 2019

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ltminns · March 2019

That 'Oy, vey!'

https://youtu.be/eQJUJlwYjT0

duasyn · March 2019

How often do leaders get demoted? Monthly? So your leader hadn't logged in for 30 days? I'd think that logging into the game once a month to keep leadership role doesn't sound so harsh. Pass the lead to someone else if it is.

seaofsorrows · March 2019

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself.
And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

I have heard this before and never really understood it.

People act like you donate your resources to a fleet and get nothing in return. You get fleet credit that you use to buy gear, and fleets have some good stuff that's worth buying. In the event that your leadership pulls a 'd*&k move' and kicks you, you keep any gear you acquired and you keep your fleet credits that you can spend in your next fleet.

Honestly, the problems people have mostly only exist from making the mistake of joining a random fleet because someone sent an invite out of the blue. Personally, I put a little more effort into the decision of which fleet to join and I have absolutely no hesitation in making contributions. Doing so builds up holdings and gives me access to better items, plus it's nice to work with others toward an actual goal.

The system only fails when you join garbage fleets that spam random people with invites. Only trash fleets do that and you kind of get what you deserve when you just join random spam fleets.

warpangel · March 2019

darkbladejk wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself. Namely this:

darkbladejk wrote: »

You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

The point is that the fleet isn't going to just hand you everything for free. Simply because you've joined doesn't mean you are owed anything. Too many that I've observed today seem to think they should have immediate bank and store access and that simply isn't going to happen without them earning it. You want something you earn it.

The point is that it's impossible for players to actually earn anything in a fleet. They can only give up their money for free and hope the fleet owner lets them use his holdings in return.

seaofsorrows wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself.
And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

I have heard this before and never really understood it.

People act like you donate your resources to a fleet and get nothing in return. You get fleet credit that you use to buy gear, and fleets have some good stuff that's worth buying. In the event that your leadership pulls a 'd*&k move' and kicks you, you keep any gear you acquired and you keep your fleet credits that you can spend in your next fleet.

The word "donate" is very much part of the problem. You're supposed to spend your own money building a house someone else owns with nothing more than their word that they'll let you use it afterward. Not exactly a realistic scenario for grown-ups to engage in.

And Fleet Credit is only worth anything as long as you actually want any more gear. People who seriously fund holdings inevitably have excess millions of it because there's nothing more to spend it on.

Honestly, the problems people have mostly only exist from making the mistake of joining a random fleet because someone sent an invite out of the blue. Personally, I put a little more effort into the decision of which fleet to join and I have absolutely no hesitation in making contributions. Doing so builds up holdings and gives me access to better items, plus it's nice to work with others toward an actual goal.

The system only fails when you join garbage fleets that spam random people with invites. Only trash fleets do that and you kind of get what you deserve when you just join random spam fleets.

There is no "system." The game just cops out and leaves everything up to player trust. There are lots of trustworthy fleet owners and that's nice, but it's not a system.

There is zero investment security, which leads to many players just wanting to dump their worthless fleet marks and leave all the valuable inputs for someone else. It's like item trading...if players had to mail their money to someone with no guarantees and just hope the other guy sends back the bought item, not many players would be confident in doing that.

baddmoonrizin · March 2019

First, what does any of this have to do with the thread topic concerning the Fleet Leadership automatic demotion/promotion function?

warpangel wrote: »

darkbladejk wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself. Namely this:

darkbladejk wrote: »

You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

The point is that the fleet isn't going to just hand you everything for free. Simply because you've joined doesn't mean you are owed anything. Too many that I've observed today seem to think they should have immediate bank and store access and that simply isn't going to happen without them earning it. You want something you earn it.

The point is that it's impossible for players to actually earn anything in a fleet. They can only give up their money for free and hope the fleet owner lets them use his holdings in return.

seaofsorrows wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself.
And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

I have heard this before and never really understood it.

People act like you donate your resources to a fleet and get nothing in return. You get fleet credit that you use to buy gear, and fleets have some good stuff that's worth buying. In the event that your leadership pulls a 'd*&k move' and kicks you, you keep any gear you acquired and you keep your fleet credits that you can spend in your next fleet.

The word "donate" is very much part of the problem. You're supposed to spend your own money building a house someone else owns with nothing more than their word that they'll let you use it afterward. Not exactly a realistic scenario for grown-ups to engage in.

And Fleet Credit is only worth anything as long as you actually want any more gear. People who seriously fund holdings inevitably have excess millions of it because there's nothing more to spend it on.

Honestly, the problems people have mostly only exist from making the mistake of joining a random fleet because someone sent an invite out of the blue. Personally, I put a little more effort into the decision of which fleet to join and I have absolutely no hesitation in making contributions. Doing so builds up holdings and gives me access to better items, plus it's nice to work with others toward an actual goal.

The system only fails when you join garbage fleets that spam random people with invites. Only trash fleets do that and you kind of get what you deserve when you just join random spam fleets.

There is no "system." The game just cops out and leaves everything up to player trust. There are lots of trustworthy fleet owners and that's nice, but it's not a system.

There is zero investment security, which leads to many players just wanting to dump their worthless fleet marks and leave all the valuable inputs for someone else. It's like item trading...if players had to mail their money to someone with no guarantees and just hope the other guy sends back the bought item, not many players would be confident in doing that.

So, I'm guessing that you've never rented a place to live? (realistic, grown-up scenario of literally building a house someone else owns) Or shopped online? (realistic, grown-up scenario of literally mailing money to someone with no guarantees of a returned product).

Of course, this is neither here nor there, as it's all off topic anyway.

warpangel · March 2019

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

First, what does any of this have to do with the thread topic concerning the Fleet Leadership automatic demotion/promotion function?

warpangel wrote: »

darkbladejk wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself. Namely this:

darkbladejk wrote: »

You are not owed anything nor are you entitled to anything within a fleet.

And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

The point is that the fleet isn't going to just hand you everything for free. Simply because you've joined doesn't mean you are owed anything. Too many that I've observed today seem to think they should have immediate bank and store access and that simply isn't going to happen without them earning it. You want something you earn it.

The point is that it's impossible for players to actually earn anything in a fleet. They can only give up their money for free and hope the fleet owner lets them use his holdings in return.

seaofsorrows wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

The concept of fleets being "owned" by someone is a problem in and of itself.
And that's why many players are reluctant to invest in holdings.

I have heard this before and never really understood it.

People act like you donate your resources to a fleet and get nothing in return. You get fleet credit that you use to buy gear, and fleets have some good stuff that's worth buying. In the event that your leadership pulls a 'd*&k move' and kicks you, you keep any gear you acquired and you keep your fleet credits that you can spend in your next fleet.

The word "donate" is very much part of the problem. You're supposed to spend your own money building a house someone else owns with nothing more than their word that they'll let you use it afterward. Not exactly a realistic scenario for grown-ups to engage in.

And Fleet Credit is only worth anything as long as you actually want any more gear. People who seriously fund holdings inevitably have excess millions of it because there's nothing more to spend it on.

Honestly, the problems people have mostly only exist from making the mistake of joining a random fleet because someone sent an invite out of the blue. Personally, I put a little more effort into the decision of which fleet to join and I have absolutely no hesitation in making contributions. Doing so builds up holdings and gives me access to better items, plus it's nice to work with others toward an actual goal.

The system only fails when you join garbage fleets that spam random people with invites. Only trash fleets do that and you kind of get what you deserve when you just join random spam fleets.

There is no "system." The game just cops out and leaves everything up to player trust. There are lots of trustworthy fleet owners and that's nice, but it's not a system.

There is zero investment security, which leads to many players just wanting to dump their worthless fleet marks and leave all the valuable inputs for someone else. It's like item trading...if players had to mail their money to someone with no guarantees and just hope the other guy sends back the bought item, not many players would be confident in doing that.

So, I'm guessing that you've never rented a place to live? (realistic, grown-up scenario of literally building a house someone else owns) Or shopped online? (realistic, grown-up scenario of literally mailing money to someone with no guarantees of a returned product).

Of course, this is neither here nor there, as it's all off topic anyway.

Of course there are guarantees. There are laws and contracts and consequences for breaking them. No real-life business is free to take customers' money and then just not deliver if they don't feel like it. No legitimate business anyway.

But yeah, no point arguing about it here.

centaurianalpha · March 2019

I was super glad to discover that this was the reason so many alts disappeared from our rosters; I thought initially it was something I had done inadvertently! Apparently a few of our 'altoholic' fleeties were responsible for most of the fallout, but at least they are still recorded on the Leader Boards, so it's no mystery who they are when it comes time to reinstate them. I can't say I'm opposed to the change, but I feel for inactive fleets who collectively haven't sorted their chain of command...

warpangel · March 2019

centaurianalpha wrote: »

I was super glad to discover that this was the reason so many alts disappeared from our rosters; I thought initially it was something I had done inadvertently! Apparently a few of our 'altoholic' fleeties were responsible for most of the fallout, but at least they are still recorded on the Leader Boards, so it's no mystery who they are when it comes time to reinstate them. I can't say I'm opposed to the change, but I feel for inactive fleets who collectively haven't sorted their chain of command...

That's a good point. Fleet ranks are per character, not account-wide. It's entirely possible for a leader to be on every day, but still have alts they haven't played in a long time.

Please stop system automatic demotion for leaders of fleets...

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