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why do people hate on this game?

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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,494 Arc User
    > @kirwinhansel said:
    > I like the game. However, there are issues I have with this game:
    > 1. Lack of focus on PVP balancing.
    > Since the beginning of this game, PVP is an afterthought. Skewed heavily towards the Klingon faction and premade groups.
    > Abilities are not balanced for both PVE and PVP based actions.
    > 2. Pay to win mechanic.
    > Dilithium Ore should either have no limit or the limit raised for how much you can refine based on the type of sub you have.
    > If you're monthly or lifetime you should have the ability to refine more than a FTP player. It would give more of an incentive
    > to sub the game instead of a heavy focus on micro transactions. I wonder how much this game makes on micro transactions
    > and if the numbers of subs. Unfortunately, Perfect World does not publish sub numbers or income on micro transactions.
    > 3. Faction specific favoritism.
    > Even though T6 ships have the same traits, the ships are NOT balanced for each faction and lock box ships are even worse.
    > Goes to my pay to win mechanic complaint. T6 ships you have to buy with Zen. Lock boxes can only be opened with keys
    > you have to buy with Zen and the ship drop rate is EXTREMELY rare. I'm talking you're lucky if you get one ship if you spend
    > $100 in keys.
    > 4. Ship design is screwed up.
    > When you look at Federation ships, specifically their so called dreadnaughts and battlecruisers, they are dreadnaughts and
    > battlecruisers in name only. They have the completely wrong weapon, console, and bridge officer configurations for ships
    > that are supposed to be offensive in nature. Dreadnaughts should be bulkier versions of the battlecruisers. For a while, DPS
    > was heavily favored towards the Romulan faction and there aren't too many Federation battlecruisers that have the 5/3
    > weapon configuration that Romulan Scimitars have. Don't get me started with carrier design. Also, most of the ships that
    > have optimal DPS design are lockbox ships. Thus, more focus on the pay to win mechanic. There should be C Store ships
    > that you can buy that have similar configurations than the OP lockbox ships.
    >
    > That's just a few of the major issues with the game. Overall, I have fun and love the game. It is heavily skewed towards the pay to win gear and ships. Any player should be able to grind for gear that is comparable to the pay to win gear.

    1. There are no OP ships, Lockbox, Lobi, Promo, whatever. Many c-store ships are very much like the Lockbox etc ships. This F2P (formerly monthly sub for well past 1000 days) player right here owns a dozen or so Lockbox/Lobi T6 ships. I spent no real money doing so. I obtained the ships by farming Dill, converting it to Zen, buying keys, selling the keys on the Exchange, and buying the ship from the Exchange. I also buy c-store ships this way. My characters fly a mix of ships, C-store, Lockbox/Lobi, Event (totally free). I can do anything except LTS without any money at all, just by "grinding" as you put it. Here's the thing though, I never feel like I'm grinding, I enjoy my playing time. I have done thousands of dollars worth of zen from Dilithium over the years. Just about the only thing I can't get using Dilithium is the LTS.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,277 Arc User
    If the dil cap was removed or raised the exchange would stagnate very quickly. You only need to take a look at the state of neverwinters AD economy to see how bad it could get, although thats partly down to the devs being pretty lax at putting exploitable things into the game and then not sorting them until damage has been done.

    I put less effort into my LTS account in terms of dil to zen conversion but both it and my f2p accounts are where I'm happy with them. PS4 one isn't bad either and that has much less time played because of how badly thought out a lot of the port is.
  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited March 9
    Just saw a recent youtube vid about STO. While I don't agree STO is dying, it's not an 800lb gorilla of the gaming industry, obviously. Video does a good history of STO's rocky start with the IP being tossed around like a hot potato.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,238 Arc User
    I don't hate the game per say. I hate the choices that devs are making in the game...like no romulan ships, removal of the foundry, some rather flawed stories as of late, forced faction unification with all out option basically being feddie bears...yeah. I mean it is still fun to log in a blow stuff up in my favorite trek ships still...but considering that the Korean grinder I also play is actually listening to what the fans of the game are telling them while this one seems to be doing the exact opposite, I find I wanna spend less and less time devoted to this game and more and more to the grinder.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,897 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    some rather flawed stories as of late
    Such as?
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,225 Arc User
    It's not so much hate, it's more just pure saltiness. Most of what you're talking about is from the older players. That that have been around for a long time. Like me, I picked STO the day it went F2P back in 2012. Those of us that been there for the changes, saw parts of the game die because of lack of support. The Foundry is not the first to have this happen, PvP was the first.
    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
  • fury#0751 fury Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    mybm wrote: »
    i started playing like 3 months ago maybe more not sure its freaking fun and i get spok voice over for real and some other cool stuff sorry just was curiose and started watching some shows when i heard spok i was like whattttttt!!!!!!!!! when i was visiting planets i got chills game is awesome i might hate that console gets extra late but extra but im still like whatttttt!!!!!! game is awesome need to advertise more is all

    Because this, THIS is the Startrek game. Startrek - that TV show we grew up loving. Startrek, with heroic Captains and a post scarcity civilization and so much hope in a dark and dangerous Universe. Startrek, surely the IP that could back a scifi based MMO that could knock World of Warhammer out the park. A game worth pre-ordering the lifetime subscription for.

    And we got this P.O.S: An engine that was a quick hack job conversion of the Champions Online engine. Out the gates it was hobbled with slow and frequent area loads and poorly thought out bland missions that were pure tedium: Walls of text assaulted the reader, but quest designers sought to punish those to lazy to read by making successful negotiation of a mission text a memory game where some obscure item or number would have to be named.

    The game as a subscription collapsed and it became f2p passing through a series of owners each determined to do less but make more: The resulting mess actively tries to steal your money: a feature to try ships before you buy them was canned because it mean't people spent less. You know, because somehow its not viewed as unethical to make people buy ships they don't want as long as the ledger shows more profit. Delete a character? the stuff you paid for is gone. Ubox an item on the wrong character? Buy it again.

    Any other game, any other IP I'd just call it a day. I wouldn't bother to hate it.

    But this is Star Trek dammit. There is NOT going to be any other Star Trek MMO. Just this one.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,262 Arc User
    edited March 9
    How do you know that? If this game ever closed someone might eventually obtain the rights to make a new Star Trek MMO, it's possible.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    mybm wrote: »
    why do people hate on this game?

    Sticking to your thread point and not the nonsense underneath that in the OP.

    I don't hate STO per se, i do however greatly dislike the upper management and some of their questionable choices. Season 6 and season 8 are standouts, especially season 8 with the dinosaurs. On the other side is the Legacy of Romulus which IMO is their best expansion they ever did, but after that it kinda fell in on itself and you look at it now and the same upper management is making noises that they are running out things to do for this game by sticking it to canon events instead of following its own path.

    you had the likes of Captain Volok, who has since been replaced by Captain Nog in the 24th starfleet tutorial. which imo was unnessecary and takes away any element of openness in the game storyline. even more so when the storylines were reorganised where only special cast of trek alumni characters are seen in events.

    You got Quinn, J'mpok and D'tan playing mission givers all the time and all the other sto game characters are nowhere to be seen. they got all this room on the side they are purposely ignoring which they could explore out.

    the devs themselves i have no issue with, i never have had any issues with the cryptic devs and i never doubt their ability to do great work. i just have a problem with the upper management doing their own thing.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • fury#0751 fury Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    How do you know that? If this game ever closed someone might eventually obtain the rights to make a new Star Trek MMO, it's possible.

    Yes. This is our predicament. We have to *hope* that STO fails - quickly so someone with vision can acquire the IP, but not so quickly that no one wants the IP. This is the source of our angst.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,277 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    some rather flawed stories as of late
    Such as?

    Penulitmate mission in VIL arc says to go gather allies and prepare and then skips at least two misisons to aid worf & martok getting the kdf in order and the doctor as he sorts out his thermos of magic goo instead assuming we don't care about gathering allies or preparing and shoving us into the final episode.

    Another recent example is how the disco missions have been all over the place including the tutorial which is nothing but a lazy rehash of the tos one complete with contrived last second rescue by daniels. Pair at the anniversary had a bit of continuity but the first were so we know more about some rubbercoated klink we've still never met but is apparently tearing the quadrant a new one.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,494 Arc User
    > @duasyn said:
    > Just saw a recent youtube vid about STO. While I don't agree STO is dying, it's not an 800lb gorilla of the gaming industry, obviously. Video does a good history of STO's rocky start with the IP being tossed around like a hot potato.

    It really doesn't.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • best reason is that Gene Roddenberry is DEAD,, his notes and information on anything other then the fed faction was either short or just notes, everything else has been nothing but speculation on the part of writers and higher ups with money the devs have only so much to work with and a real shortage of fan based knowledge or well defined forums to base designs or game worthy story lines on, with the multiple offshoots of cannon has also not helped nor has the imagination of the writers to do everything they can to make anything at least worthy of cannon (ie: the just look at the latest of movies or television shows and all the speculation within just those). and users of this game TRIBBLE and complain (mostly from frustration) instead of opening up a good debate with those that have to work on the game, of course that too goes the other way as well.
    I'll refferance; ichaerus1's posting just to the op
    [quote="ichaerus1
    Also, it may be a pet peeve of mine, but it would behoove you to try working on your post there. It was painfully aggravating to read. From the grammar and sentence structure, to punctuation.[/quote]

    as minor as being a grammar police is for some this is by no way considered to be a constructive argument, now think how a dev would see this, these people work long and hard just so some people can play a free to play (LOL) game and hear allot of complaints and gripes, from every side including from internal sources, yes we lost the foundry, I really can't imagine why, maybe the lack of support for it or the fact that most of them went soooo far south they had absolutlly nothing to do with sto or as with allot of things the lack of understanding on the amount of work it takes to program that into the system many many reasons, since I am not on twitter nor facebook myself I don't get to see any of the banter there , I stay within the reddit and see some of what goes around and I am always amazed at the lack of "for the greater good" I see in there changes made not for the general public of the game but for the minor percentile of players that ARE mostly paying for things in the game complaining because they are still getting thier torps shoved were the stars don't shine. Again free to play game , yes devs need to be paid, but I also know there are a small group of players that run in the beta system testing this and that, and the devs have to take all that and make a decision and not always a decision that is going to make some small minded people happy, so before I rant this post into the depths of who knows , be nice think about how your words come across if the game was really as bad as so many have stated it sure wouldn't have lasted this long. for some it is a good game and for others just not their cup of tea, but be happy that the makers haven't spammed the hell out of everyone with ads to make up the short fall for the cost of all the support options the game has.

    :* And now for a Public service announcement time to get back to the grind of polishing the bugs of my bridge screens.
    And now for a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT time to get back to the grind of polishing the bugs off my bridge screens :*
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    A lot of the easy hating STO gets really comes down to choices about how certain things happened.

    For instance my current #1 issue with STO is lockbox/lobi ships being character only vs account unlocks. Being account unlocks would of added so much more to these ships instead of buying them for single characters. This REALLY rears it's ugly head when it comes to things like the Astika and it's supremacy trait and the TOS Dread with DPRM. These ships or at the very least their consoles & traits should be account unlocks.

    For a little anecdote, I was looking at my Cardassian character last night and realized I wanted to get the good ol BIC console off the lobi store so I cracked open some Infinity boxes (ya know JUST in case I happen to hit the prize) and sure enough I got up to 99 lobi, was like OF COURSE I'd be one short and have to burn another key so with a sigh I cracked another box and WHAM T6 token. You have no idea... I've been playing STO since LoR launched and I played a few lockboxes for a bit like the Tarantula and of course the phoenix boxes but never won anything until last night. It was awesome I had actually hit, AND had been opening boxes that contained a ship I want. The T'laru! The ONLY Romulan carrier in the game (we could go into another thing about how it's a TRIBBLE poor idea to have the ONLY carrier be lockbox vs c-store..) So this should be super easy right? take that T'laru, you've wanted one forever... but wait.. the TOS dread... the Cardassian I've been playing is Fed.. DPRM...

    Really? That put so much salt into me RIGHT after hitting the jackpot.. Do I take a ship I've wanted since it came out? OR do I take a CONSOLE for a character I'm trying to push to the max. That to me is a perfect illustration of what is wrong with character unlocks in STO. These ships cost such a huge amount but pack some of the best stuff in the entire game in them.

    Another thing that's chaffed me since it done was making Romulans sub-faction with Fed or KDF. It's always annoyed me that Romulan's aren't their own faction, BUT again there was a choice made on Cryptics part that made it worse than it could of been. They chose the easy route with it and didn't redo mission dialogue to add Romulan dialogue. You see, I could stand it IF the game played out for Romulan's like D'tan says it does, with Romulan's being their own people but working in concert with the KDF or Feds. But since writing some dialogue would of required some work they didnt do it and instead we get a VERY KDF Romulan captain or a VERY Federation Captain. I can understand that trying to code a third faction probably would of been impossible for Cryptic at the time but differing dialogue SHOULD of been written.

    And ill keep this from getting to long by just adding in that tweaks and changes take far to long for Cryptic to get around too. Romulan power levels vs singularity powers should of been fixed about 4-5 years ago. The lack of cruiser commands on Romulan cruisers should of been fixed years ago. Changes to various ships BOFF layouts should of been fixed years ago (looking at you t6 excelsior). The lack of omni's for most damage types shouldn't of taken so long to implement (with plasma still waiting) and sorta feeding off that we just had T6 reps introduced buuut instead of fixing plasma's lack of omni/sets we get more phaser and anti-proton weapons.. again a poor choice.



  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,897 Arc User
    edited March 9
    Penulitmate mission in VIL arc says to go gather allies and prepare and then skips at least two misisons to aid worf & martok getting the kdf in order and the doctor as he sorts out his thermos of magic goo instead assuming we don't care about gathering allies or preparing and shoving us into the final episode.

    Another recent example is how the disco missions have been all over the place including the tutorial which is nothing but a lazy rehash of the tos one complete with contrived last second rescue by daniels. Pair at the anniversary had a bit of continuity but the first were so we know more about some rubbercoated klink we've still never met but is apparently tearing the quadrant a new one.
    Why on Earth would we need a mission to help Worf and Martok get the KDF in order when all he has to do is light the Beacon of Kahless, show everyone he has the sword(which we already got him during Quark's Lucky Seven), and then they are honor bound to follow him to fight the Hur'q? Also, why would we need a mission to help Bashir get some Ketracel White when its something that the Dominon has massive quantities of and Odo can just give it to him? You could combine both of those into one mission and it would still take all of maybe 10 minutes.

    How are the Disco missions all over the place? there are two plotlines going at once, you know, like in real life where there are multiple things going on at once? Cryptic has already said they are going to switch back and forth between the two as Age of Discovery goes on, with both story lines coming together at the end. You are literally complaining about Cryptic making the game more realistic instead of having them pretend there is only ever one thing going on at a time.

    Also
    A. The Discovery tutorial is a redo of the 2409 tutorial, not the TOS one.
    B. Daniels doesn't recuse you at any point. He just contacts you at the end and goes "Hey, I noticed you accidentally time traveled to the present day, let me get you up to speed so you don't appear out of place."
    C. J'Ula hasn't done anything we know of yet since coming to 2410. She isn't tearing the galaxy a new one yet, nor does anyone say she is. We are just doing these "Simulations" to prepare in case she does something.
    mefit1 wrote: »
    At this point, cryptic should throw in the towel and say the Klingon/Fed war is over and they are now close allies because playing as a Klingon through the arcs from new Romulus and on make it seem like there is no tensions .........!
    The Federation-Klingon War ended all the way back in the "Surface Tension" mission of the Solaane Dyson Sphere arc. They even had a big party at the end to celebrate the end of the war... and that mission came out in April 2014! The war has been over for almost 5 years now in real life time.
    mefit1 wrote: »
    Klingon armors and appearance from it where ?
    Discovery arcs from Klingon point of view where ?
    They already released one of the Klingon house outfits from Discovery in the latest bundle, and Cryptic has said they plan to make every Klingon House outfit seen in the show available in-game. Same with Disco-Klingon appearance options.

    As for a Disco-Klingon playable faction, they have said it wont happen.
    mefit1 wrote: »
    Tons of books
    Cryptic can't use stuff from the books without having to do separate licensing deals because the things made up for the books belong to the authors who wrote them.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    edited March 9
    mybm wrote: »
    i started playing like 3 months ago maybe more not sure its freaking fun and i get spok voice over for real and some other cool stuff sorry just was curiose and started watching some shows when i heard spok i was like whattttttt!!!!!!!!! when i was visiting planets i got chills game is awesome i might hate that console gets extra late but extra but im still like whatttttt!!!!!! game is awesome need to advertise more is all
    Reason 1: Their writing has been getting progressively worse since Delta Rising.
    • Delta Rising requires us to assist in the commission of systematic war crimes.
    • The Iconian War tries to garner sympathy for the worst bunch of mass-murderers in galactic history.
    • The Temporal Cold Sore arc is a cesspit of nonsense, fails to give a coherent reason why it's so bad for the Na'Kuhl to get their homeworld back, and the timecops are incompetent Gary Stus who are only interested in maintaining their own power.

    Reason 2: They fix things that didn't need fixing instead of working on core features that are actually popular but not working. Foundry was neglected for years, now it's shut down because the better part of a decade of neglect has led to nobody knowing how to fix it anymore.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,897 Arc User
    edited March 9
    starswordc wrote: »
    Reason 1: Their writing has been getting progressively worse since Delta Rising.
    • Delta Rising requires us to assist in the commission of systematic war crimes.
    • The Iconian War tries to garner sympathy for the worst bunch of mass-murderers in galactic history.
    • The Temporal Cold Sore arc is a cesspit of nonsense, fails to give a coherent reason why it's so bad for the Na'Kuhl to get their homeworld back, and the timecops are incompetent Gary Stus who are only interested in maintaining their own power.
    Everything you just listed is not only a misrepresentation of the actual events, but the ACTUAL reasons behind them is exactly why their writing has gotten better.

    Instead of objective good vs objective evil like something in TOS or TNG, we have moved far more into DS9 levels of writing where everyone is wrong, but they have reasons for why they are doing what they are doing.

    Also, the Na'Kuhl do get their sun back, and eventually join the Federation. They just had to wait until after the Battle of Procyon V because doing it before the Temporal Cold War ended would create a massive timeline paradox, and not even the nice, clean, bootstrap paradox kind either.
    Post edited by somtaawkhar on
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,819 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    [*] Delta Rising requires us to assist in the commission of systematic war crimes.
    [*] The Iconian War tries to garner sympathy for the worst bunch of mass-murderers in galactic history.
    [*] The Temporal Cold Sore arc is a cesspit of nonsense, fails to give a coherent reason why it's so bad for the Na'Kuhl to get their homeworld back, and the timecops are incompetent Gary Stus who are only interested in maintaining their own power.[/list]

    And now we invited the Dominion into the Alliance after they just caused death and destruction on the galaxy. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the galaxy bands together against the Alliance.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,897 Arc User
    edited March 9
    thay8472 wrote: »
    And now we invited the Dominion into the Alliance after they just caused death and destruction on the galaxy. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the galaxy bands together against the Alliance.
    What exactly did the Dominion cause again? The Female Changeling caused some TRIBBLE sure, but she isn't The Dominion, nor does The Dominion approve of what she did, nor did they even know she was the one behind the Hur'q the whole time until we revealed it.

    Not to mention, part of the stipulation for joining the Alliance is that the Dominion has to dismantle their "Benevolent Dictatorship", free all the Jem'Hadar from the slavery that is the addition to Ketracel Whit, and we already see worlds like Karemma beginning the process to leave The Dominion.
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    mefit1 wrote: »
    Reason 1: Their writing has been getting progressively worse since Delta Rising.
    • Delta Rising requires us to assist in the commission of systematic war crimes.
    • The Iconian War tries to garner sympathy for the worst bunch of mass-murderers in galactic history.
    • The Temporal Cold Sore arc is a cesspit of nonsense, fails to give a coherent reason why it's so bad for the Na'Kuhl to get their homeworld back, and the timecops are incompetent Gary Stus who are only interested in maintaining their own power.
    Everything you just listed is not only a misrepresentation of the actual events, but the ACTUAL reasons behind them is exactly why their writing has gotten better.

    Instead of objective good vs objective evil like something in TOS or TNG, we have moved far more into DS9 levels of writing where everyone is wrong, but they have reasons for why they are doing what they are doing.

    Also, the Na'Kuhl do get their sun back, and eventually join the Federation. They just had to wait until after the Battle of Procyon V because doing it before the Temporal Cold War ended would create a massive timeline paradox, and not even the nice, clean, bootstrap paradox kind either.

    Som, you some how have the wrong quoted person.

    @starswordc to clarify what I believe Som is trying to say in regards to your post, have 1 misguided view of how thing appeared to you, vs. how they actually appeared.

    - Delta Rising: What I got from the Delta Quadrant arc was not systemic war crimes, but a matter of stopping an enemy that was bent on destroying every power in the Quadrant with the assistance of the Iconians for help in exchange for becoming unwitting pawns.

    - The Iconian War: Wrong on this account too. The Iconians were only mass-murderers because of the way events transpired. The Galaxy for 200 centuries was led to believe that the Iconians were evil, when in reality they were far from evil. They wanted to coexist with the rest of the galaxy and help less developed species when the latter had reached developmental milestones that would enable the sharing of technology in the good faith that it would not be used to harm others. Think of what would become of the galaxy if a conquering power had the ability to travel using the Iconian gateways.

    - The Temporal Cold War: Again, wrong. The Na'khul wanted nothing more than to have their sun restored, but without the Federation's help since they allowed the sun to go in the first place. The Na'khul were vengeful and wanted nothing more than to restore their sun, without regards to how it should happen, since restoring their sun before history says it happens would mean that they cause a paradox to no end.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,819 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    And now we invited the Dominion into the Alliance after they just caused death and destruction on the galaxy. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the galaxy bands together against the Alliance.
    What exactly did the Dominion cause again? The Female Changeling caused some TRIBBLE sure, but she isn't The Dominion, nor does The Dominion approve of what she did, nor did they even know she was the one behind the Hur'q the whole time until we revealed it.

    Not to mention, part of the stipulation for joining the Alliance is that the Dominion has to dismantle their "Benevolent Dictatorship", free all the Jem'Hadar from the slavery that is the addition to Ketracel Whit, and we already see worlds like Karemma beginning the process to leave The Dominion.

    Yes ... that's true. The Dominion is no more. I hope they do the Alliance next.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,021 Arc User
    mybm wrote: »
    i started playing like 3 months ago maybe more not sure its freaking fun and i get spok voice over for real and some other cool stuff sorry just was curiose and started watching some shows when i heard spok i was like whattttttt!!!!!!!!! when i was visiting planets i got chills game is awesome i might hate that console gets extra late but extra but im still like whatttttt!!!!!! game is awesome need to advertise more is all
    trennan wrote: »
    It's not so much hate
    It's passion. A whole lot of players have been here for close to or in some cases more than a decade. Many have been Star Trek fans since it first aired on TV. We've all had our own unique visions of what the perfect STO is for us individually. We've all felt the same magic that you have OP.

    Over time there have been disappointments for some, myself included. Some may feel let down by the direction in which the game has headed, decisions the developers have made, or things that have been removed. Some may feel that the game could have been so much more. It's easy to feel strongly about something you care for. Don't mistake 'hate' for passion.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,897 Arc User
    edited March 9
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Yes ... that's true. The Dominion is no more. I hope they do the Alliance next.
    Except The Dominion still exists, and continues to exist until the singing of the Temporal Accords, as The Dominion is present there.

    I also don't understand these "Anti-Alliance" people, it goes against everything Trek stands for.
  • fury#0751 fury Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 9
    - Delta Rising: What I got from the Delta Quadrant arc was not systemic war crimes, but a matter of stopping an enemy that was bent on destroying every power in the Quadrant with the assistance of the Iconians for help in exchange for becoming unwitting pawns.

    If that is their motivation then it just goes to show how weak the writing has become. Literally no race, especially one trying to recover in the way the Vaarduwar are, is that 2 dimensional. But 2 dimensional motivation seems all the STO writers have become good at.
    The Vaardwuar - if anything - are rightfully miffed at the way the Kobali have engaged in systematic genocide against them while sleeping, AND how the Kobali don' respect their burial practices.
    No, we are 100% the bad guys after that. War criminals is what we are. If this was actually what the writers intended, then they'd surely address it? But no. Its ignored.
    The Iconian War: Wrong on this account too. The Iconians were only mass-murderers because of the way events transpired.

    Riight. The iconians, all 6 of them, view their own lives as more sacrosanct than the lives of billions. Billions of entirely unrelated people because the crime the Iconians are avenging happened 200,000 years in the past. This is beyond bad writing. No thought at all is given to how a race might ponder and think given a 200,000 year hiatus. Just revenge revenge revenge. Nevermind the complete and utter lack of comprehension on the part of the writers what powers they invoke: 1. A 200,000 year head start. Ships in the ST universe are significantly more powerful after 100 years of development. the Iconians have been working on weaponizing their tech for 200,000 years. They have dyson spheres. A single dyson sphere as the inner surface area equal to the entire habitable planetary surface area of the entire milky way. A single dyson sphere represents a power that exceeds ALL the powers of the combined alpha, beta, gamma and delta quadrants. And a proper galactic civilization has over 100 billion planets. With a fleet large enough to patrol / service a 100 billion star empire, a galactic planet sized civilization would have over 100,000 ships to each ship the Alliance could field. And the Iconians had several dyson spheres. And a 200,000 year head start.

    There is no way this story line made any sense at all. The iconians 2d motivation. Their squandered 200,000 year advantage. Their overwhelming numerical superiority. All so the writers could kill almost everyone in the Alliance just to cause some drama, and then kill them all again.

    If you think this is good writing then I suggest you try some Noddy and Big Ears. Its right up there for plot and drama. I hear those goblins are pretty damn trecherous.
    The Temporal Cold War: Again, wrong. The Na'khul wanted nothing more than to have their sun restored, but without the Federation's help since they allowed the sun to go in the first place.

    Oj, OK, when the iconians go on a murderous spree 200,000 years later because some other aliens attacked them we have to give them a pass, but when the Na'khul, rather rightly object to being sacrificed, they just have to bend over and take it?

    This kind of bull "humans are superior to all other races" is exactly why the writers should never have graduated grade school. Here is a rich palette for them to create some cutting social commentary and they just go for a "anything is ok and excusable as long as it benefits humans" approach to everything? Humans? can TRIBBLE with the timeline all they want, murdering countless other races in the process and we just blink. Its not genocide if they just never existed at all!. but other races try the same thing? "Ah, petty vengeful aliens who don't understand they should throw themselves under the bus to serve the betterment of Humanity".



    Post edited by fury#0751 on
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    edited March 9
    mefit1 wrote: »
    Reason 1: Their writing has been getting progressively worse since Delta Rising.
    • Delta Rising requires us to assist in the commission of systematic war crimes.
    • The Iconian War tries to garner sympathy for the worst bunch of mass-murderers in galactic history.
    • The Temporal Cold Sore arc is a cesspit of nonsense, fails to give a coherent reason why it's so bad for the Na'Kuhl to get their homeworld back, and the timecops are incompetent Gary Stus who are only interested in maintaining their own power.
    Everything you just listed is not only a misrepresentation of the actual events, but the ACTUAL reasons behind them is exactly why their writing has gotten better.

    Instead of objective good vs objective evil like something in TOS or TNG, we have moved far more into DS9 levels of writing where everyone is wrong, but they have reasons for why they are doing what they are doing.

    Also, the Na'Kuhl do get their sun back, and eventually join the Federation. They just had to wait until after the Battle of Procyon V because doing it before the Temporal Cold War ended would create a massive timeline paradox, and not even the nice, clean, bootstrap paradox kind either.

    Som, you some how have the wrong quoted person.

    @starswordc to clarify what I believe Som is trying to say in regards to your post, have 1 misguided view of how thing appeared to you, vs. how they actually appeared.

    - Delta Rising: What I got from the Delta Quadrant arc was not systemic war crimes, but a matter of stopping an enemy that was bent on destroying every power in the Quadrant with the assistance of the Iconians for help in exchange for becoming unwitting pawns.
    We do that by allying with Eldex. That doesn't require us to help the gods-damned Kobali with a gods-damned thing. As I noted in a previous thread: Reviving enemy dead and altering their bodies without their consent, and brainwashing them into being your own soldiers qualifies on both counts. The Kobali storyline requires us not only to aid and abet an ally that does this systematically, but aid in overcoming the enemy's attempt to prevent it.

    Hell, there isn't even a good realpolitik reason to help the Kobali: they're a net drain on our resources, as evidenced by the fact their only modern warship was built with our assistance.
    - The Iconian War: Wrong on this account too. The Iconians were only mass-murderers because of the way events transpired. [snip psychobabble]
    You can stop right there. The Iconians are mass murderers because they chose to murder tens of billions of people without provocation. Nobody in the present (except Sela, who is an incompetent worthy of a bad Bond movie and only rose to her position by nepotism) attacked them, and nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to blow up Hobus, murder the Preservers on Lae'nas III, or destroy Calbriden Prime. They and they alone are responsible for their actions.

    Plenty of people have rough childhoods. Most of them don't turn into serial killers. Or Stalin. Or Pol Pot. Or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Or You-Know-Who.

    Furthermore, as proven in VOY: "Time and Again", stable time loops are not fixed in Star Trek, therefore no action is "fated". "Fate" or "paradoxes" are as valid an argument per Star Trek screen canon as the prosperity gospel or the divine right of kings: not at all.

    https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1988/06/07
    - The Temporal Cold War: Again, wrong. The Na'khul wanted nothing more than to have their sun restored, but without the Federation's help since they allowed the sun to go in the first place. The Na'khul were vengeful and wanted nothing more than to restore their sun, without regards to how it should happen, since restoring their sun before history says it happens would mean that they cause a paradox to no end.
    Per Cryptic's own blog, no one variation of the timeline is any more "right" than any other. Hmmm. :trollface:

    The timecops are just protecting a version of the timeline that makes them the arbiters of all that is right and just in the galaxy, and we're forced even by the game mechanics to assist them, since the "skip mission" button remains disabled for those missions.

    So, given that time loops are in fact breakable:
    • Stop the Tholians before they launch their attack, and the Na'kuhl homeworld is never destroyed, and that part of the time war never happens because the misapplied retribution loop is broken.
    • Take the damn keys out of the Krenim Mary Sueperweapon's ignition and schedule a "random" psychiatric review for Noye, and the other part never happens either.
    And then let the future damn well take care of itself. If the Federation does or does not come to encompass all civilizations of the galaxy, then it does so by the choices made by the people living in the galaxy at the appropriate times. That's what the Prime Directive means: it means you reject empire and allow people to make their own decisions, even if you don't agree with them.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
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