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RTFO’s are a winner.
galacticgoo
Member Posts: 61 Arc User
I’m playing on the easy level to learn the different queues. Once I feel I know most queues I’ll switch to Advanced.
Running my alts through for the last 4 hours one after another here some data points:
1) Wait times, longest wait so far has been 20 seconds. I know, the horror
2) Haven’t encountered any ground queues yet.
3) I’m averaging way more marks than the old Red Alert system.
4) Longer RTFO’s reward more marks.
5) Other players have been nice, no Debbie Downers or crybabies so far
6) And most importantly, it’s the most fun I’ve had in STO
Only complaint so far is I have no idea what queues I’m running. Cryptic, it would be cool if there was big letters across the screen when it starts with “The Breech” or “Starbase One” or "The banana peel Incident". Also, since some of the older queues may have issues, it would be cool at the end to have a popup that said “Tell us how to improve this queue or did you encounter any bugs?"
Thumbs up Cryptic, good job!
Running my alts through for the last 4 hours one after another here some data points:
1) Wait times, longest wait so far has been 20 seconds. I know, the horror
2) Haven’t encountered any ground queues yet.
3) I’m averaging way more marks than the old Red Alert system.
4) Longer RTFO’s reward more marks.
5) Other players have been nice, no Debbie Downers or crybabies so far
6) And most importantly, it’s the most fun I’ve had in STO
Only complaint so far is I have no idea what queues I’m running. Cryptic, it would be cool if there was big letters across the screen when it starts with “The Breech” or “Starbase One” or "The banana peel Incident". Also, since some of the older queues may have issues, it would be cool at the end to have a popup that said “Tell us how to improve this queue or did you encounter any bugs?"
Thumbs up Cryptic, good job!
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments
With pugs, both maps require you to be at full fighting (and survival) strength, especially with folks who've never done either map on the team. Both queues had folks who've never done them.
It may be that the RTOs will require complete revamping of builds to compensate for the possibility of doing ground and space without switching specializations.
In addition to waiting a few weeks so folks actually know what they're doing when they join ADV queues, it may be that we will need to sub-optimize both builds to get a combined optimal build. Ships and loadouts specifically so that they can function in this randomized environment.
That said, I do agree with everyone in that separating space and ground would be nice. I think that cryptic chose not to do this so that ground queues wouldn't be left behind while 90% of players only choose space. But it is something that they should consider. Maybe lessen the space RTFO bonus and boost it for ground so that ground doesn't get abandoned by players.
As for adjusting rewards to facilitate separating space and ground - it's addressing a symptom and not the root cause. It's like those people who take one medication, then have to take another medication to deal with the side effects of the first, then a third medication to deal with the side effects of the second, and so on and so on and so on.
Like I said, the jury is out for me. What I do hope is that the leaving penalty is increased for RTOs because it doesn't help when people decide to skip out on a team, leaving them shorthanded, as has already happened several times.
People either need to accept (and enjoy) the vagaries (and rewards) of this new system...or not.
Do you have your own suggestion or no? What is this "root cause" you speak of?
Are you doing normal or advanced? If you're doing exclusively advanced, it sounds like you should probably switch to normal.
I doubt that they'll put this feature in because folks will decline the minute they get a TFO they don't want to do.
Personally I'm meh about the whole Random TFO (probably because I'm so used to them in NW) so I don't 'dislike' the feature. The queues pop fairly quickly and the other players seem pretty adept at the mission selected. The payout seemed a little lackluster, but I only did one Random TFO (Counterpoint) so maybe it gets better if more or different ones are done. My one concern is I don't know how to 'Select Reinforcements' if a team mate drops out. We had one drop and ran the mission with just four. Does anyone know if that is a feature and who gets the option? Team leader? Queue leader? Any advice would help.
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As for root causes about why this system needed to be implemented to address empty queues and lack of player participation, the idea that adding another carrot/stick reward approach to the one they've just created to get people to participate is a self-evident band aid. By definition, it would be merely addressing another cascading symptom of the participation problem if people wouldn't join the new system to do ground queues if it were separated from the space queues.
So what is the problem you believe is causing it and what is your suggestion? That's what I asked before and for whatever reason, you don't have a suggestion and won't articulate the problem beyond vague statements. Therefore I'll do it for you.
I've seen numerous posts over the years from tons of people that absolutely hate ground. They like space but hate ground game play no matter what. I tend to prefer ground myself but I also like space. But I understand that a lot of people don't like ground at that they play STO specifically for the space portion of the game.
Therefore separating space and ground into different random choices would be reasonable IMO. Like I said, I do believe that the devs chose not to do this so as to not leave ground queues unfilled. Therefore, if they do change this, then something would need to be done to incentivize ground play. And it would have to be a plausible suggestion. A full game-wide ground revamp isn't plausible.
Well, you raged about RA's being removed and RA's were normal difficulty. Plus you said you almost exclusively played RA's. So presumably you should have no problem playing random on normal. Also, the RTFO system changes nothing about advanced pugging. Useless players could pug advanced yesterday and can still do so today. So I don't know what you're on about.
look for the selector at the bottom left hand side.
I can understand why people are doing it, as it "conveniently" dropped when ppl needed more marks, but once that's done ... , I doubt it will be as active as yesterday .
Out of the 3 space one's I got, none made the optionals, one just imploded with 2 ppl leaving and I really really had hoped never again to hear "the timeline is changing! " , but alas I had to settle for it as I don't like to leave my team ... , but the temptation was really high there .
Ironically, one of the STF's I got was the TRIBBLE starbase defense, and with the removal of starbase 24 ... , I found myself mumbling "wow .. , the timeline really is changing ..." .
Immediate popping maps is something I only see during event times and the additional rewards I got so far are fair in light of the “risk” that comes with the randomness. I ended up in Counterpoint and Swarm so both space on my two tries yesterday. Not maps with particular good effort/reward ratios before but maps with good effort/reward rations *after the additional reward* is taken into account.
I also like the idea that players lining up for regular maps are the ones who trigger the additional pool of random players to be funneled there now. No CD time on a certain mark type also means I can work on reputations as side quest and thanks to the randomness never have to focus on specific ones I don’t like ever again.
Some things are better not judged too fast but clear thumbs up from me for now about the random TFOs.
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I also pulled Swarm Advanced first time.. that went well.
Next one I got was Cure Advanced.. that got a little dicey because no one seemed to realize that you have to defend the Kang. Luckily, I noticed and pulled back to 'play defense.' I was able to protect it while everyone attacked the Borg (one guy finally pulled back to help defend.) It ended up successful though.. so cool.
Third and final one I did was Storming the Spire Advanced.. hadn't done that one in a while, so it was kinda cool.. though it's a long map. Went well enough, had a couple guys that struggled to stay alive, but the rest of us were able to compensate and succeed.
I realize again though.. that this experience is random. I could try tomorrow and get nothing but garbage, but so far it's been pretty good overall. I did notice that the mark and dilithium reward is much better then just normal queuing so I was happy about that. I am hoping that Cryptic isn't going to leave these rewards for a week to get everyone pulled in and then nerf it later.. I think right now the rewards are appropriate for the time invested. Sometimes you get the reward for a short run, other times you have to put in more time.. it's a gamble, but overall the reward seems adequate.
Truth is, I don't object to the idea of random queues overall, the part I object to is the extra measures they took to promote this system. Things like removal or red alerts, hiding the player count in the queues, stuff like that. Had they skipped all that garbage and just added this as a feature, I would have a lot more positive overall view.
I also ran the new Starbase Defense Advanced a few times.. I like that one and it pops quickly so it's a good alternative to random and rewards multiple marks.
I had no chance to test RTFO on tribble as nobody was there doing them when I wanted to but do we know for sure the main space/ground/both filter of the main queue selection does not address the RTFOs as well?
I mean: *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough*
Probably just coincident but in light of the limited testing time it would be great if anybody could confirm that he had space pre-filtered and still was sent to ground in a random TFO or vice versa. Just don't have select both pls.
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Because most of all the runs that I've done have been ground and the hate is just boiling over.
The players that don't like Ground events are upset and have no interest in doing the mission the right way, which is frustrating the players that do know how to do it.
It seems that this random system is just there to fill up all the half queued missions that are waiting to be filled.
For example, if two players queue for a specific mission those two players have to wait until another three players queues for that same exact mission.
With this new random system, the system will take it's pool of players, let's say 8 players join the random Q it will take 3 of the 8 players and stick them in the queue that needs the three players to start the event.
So that means there is no longer a specific queue you can confidently sign up for, and what's worse, you won't get the bonus Mark and dilithium for it, but you will get the bonus frustration of losing the regular marks that you normally get for completing the mission before the timer runs out.
Isn't that crazy.
If you specifically pick a specific mission and have all the necessary equipment for it and queue for it, you will most likely be teamed with players that are not prepared for it and will most likely cost you the extra marks that the mission gives out for completing the mission before Time Runs Out.
But that's not the crazy part, the crazy part is the player that was put in there randomly will come out making more marks and more dilithium then you, even though they screwed up the mission because they didn't know how to do it.
🤯
Out of 12 queues that I played today, at least four of them threatened other players that they were going to be reported for not participating.
So I can only imagine how many troll reports Cryptic is going to get from this day forward.
All I can say is the drama is real and to have some popcorn at the ready and TRIBBLE the mission and just enjoy the flame that erupts in team chat.
I found this quite funny because the switch was originally at the top of the page and Cryptic decided to hide it at the very bottom corner.
Looks like Cryptic doesn't want you to limit your choices.
Can you confirm please if it works or not for the RTFO?
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What happens if you're teamed with several players that don't speak the same language, that's going to make explaining the mission impossible.
So even if you wanted to put up your wall of text of do's and don'ts of the mission it could literally be pointless if you realize that they don't understand what you just typed out.
Can this system get any worse?
Oh my god, are you serious or just kidding?
I mean you just stumbled over something here that seems to have slipped by the entire player base in this almost 9 year old game.
I’m shocked.
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Are you seriously blaming language barriers in an MMO on the Random Queue system?
[Edit] Connor got in before me - Language barriers have always been a thing, welcome to online gaming.