But here is the thing, the times you claim are NOWHERE near what I am seeing. Or Pottsey.
From what I've seen, Pottsey is talking about Elite queues which are not part of RTFO. Your anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. My anecdotal experience has been different but is more in line with a larger number of posters on this subject.
Not just Elite and I agree with coldnapalm. While I haven’t had 15mins for an ISA I am seeing 5mins+
As I write this the timer to start Bug Hunt Advanced has hit 3mins and still going. I have had other queues hit 30min+ at which point I give up. As for Elite well I gave up even trying to start the queue for Elite anymore. This change has all but killed that part of the game.
Which ones hit 30 minutes? I'm trying to make a list of queues that don't qualify for random.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
But here is the thing, the times you claim are NOWHERE near what I am seeing. Or Pottsey.
From what I've seen, Pottsey is talking about Elite queues which are not part of RTFO. Your anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. My anecdotal experience has been different but is more in line with a larger number of posters on this subject.
Not just Elite and I agree with coldnapalm. While I haven’t had 15mins for an ISA I am seeing 5mins+
As I write this the timer to start Bug Hunt Advanced has hit 3mins and still going. I have had other queues hit 30min+ at which point I give up. As for Elite well I gave up even trying to start the queue for Elite anymore. This change has all but killed that part of the game.
Which ones hit 30 minutes? I'm trying to make a list of queues that don't qualify for random.
I've seen TFOs I know qualify for the RTFO system take a long time to launch if you're queued manually. I think it might be related to the old reporting bug. IE, there's a code widget that passes data from one database on the server to another. This widget doesn't run often enough to keep the numbers up to date.
I actually gave you a partial list. But the thing is they don't ALWAYS hit 30 min. They GENERALLY do however. You literally are not getting what is happening at all. It's not that there are queues that should be included in the random queue system not actually being on the list. The problem is that you can seed one of those queues and the random system for whatever reason does not place players in that queue. At least not in a timely manner like it is suppose to. Sometimes so untimely that 30 min later, the queue still has not popped.
It's just weird that it hasn't happened to me but it apparently happens to you all the time. I'm intrigued by hawkman's post since I always thought the "reporting error" was more of a meme than an actual bug. Come to think of it, several months ago, I sat in queue for CCA for about 10 minutes before I cleared my queue selection. After I did so, I clicked CCA again and it popped instantly like CCA always did. There may be something there.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
> @pottsey5g said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> Ultimatums are a waste of typing time. You will not get any result from it.
>
>
>
> The way I see it there are only two outcomes and either one will give me a positive result.
There is only 1 outcome, your ultimatum is ignored entirely. The same single outcome that every ultimatum that has ever been made on these forums has gotten, yours will be no different whatsoever.
It’s not that type of ultimatum. I have set a deadline as otherwise I will keep coming back week in week out trying to get the system to work, failing and wasting time. So I have set a deadline to avoid the past weeks frustration overflowing into following weeks. I cannot think of a more frustrating change that has had such a negative impact on my play experience going all the way back to alpha/beta. It doesn't help that my entire friends list and fleet have left the game for similar reasons.
It wont be ignored entirely as its more for me and people who know me then the devs.
But here is the thing, the times you claim are NOWHERE near what I am seeing. Or Pottsey.
From what I've seen, Pottsey is talking about Elite queues which are not part of RTFO. Your anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. My anecdotal experience has been different but is more in line with a larger number of posters on this subject.
Not just Elite and I agree with coldnapalm. While I haven’t had 15mins for an ISA I am seeing 5mins+
As I write this the timer to start Bug Hunt Advanced has hit 3mins and still going. I have had other queues hit 30min+ at which point I give up. As for Elite well I gave up even trying to start the queue for Elite anymore. This change has all but killed that part of the game.
Which ones hit 30 minutes? I'm trying to make a list of queues that don't qualify for random.
Sorry missed you post. I think you already know but in case not, all Elites, any normal or advanced queue made up of 6+ players are not included. I tried ISA, Swam and Bug Hunt advance which are included but takes ages to start now. Not had 30mins in those 3 but I have had long waits compared to before TFO came out.
I actually gave you a partial list. But the thing is they don't ALWAYS hit 30 min. They GENERALLY do however. You literally are not getting what is happening at all. It's not that there are queues that should be included in the random queue system not actually being on the list. The problem is that you can seed one of those queues and the random system for whatever reason does not place players in that queue. At least not in a timely manner like it is suppose to. Sometimes so untimely that 30 min later, the queue still has not popped.
It's just weird that it hasn't happened to me but it apparently happens to you all the time. I'm intrigued by hawkman's post since I always thought the "reporting error" was more of a meme than an actual bug. Come to think of it, several months ago, I sat in queue for CCA for about 10 minutes before I cleared my queue selection. After I did so, I clicked CCA again and it popped instantly like CCA always did. There may be something there.
We now have three people who are not getting what you are getting. That makes you the outlier since all the other positive results are for clicking random...which we all admit it basically instant queue and a good thing if you are okay with that option. So really, how much have you tested the new queue system? With how many different maps? Because I am getting the feeling you are only using popular maps and have only done the seed your own a few times. So some details please on why you think you can seed a queue and have it pop quickly when there are three people on here now telling you that is not the case.
Popular queues do still apply. Because if there are 2 people in one queue and 1 in another, the randos will boost the former.
I've done a couple random queues and didn't particularly care for them that much. My biggest problem is that you don't know if your going to get a ground queue or a space queue so you can't set you specializations up appropriately. I do know a few people from my Armada that love the new system though and do randoms all the time so it obviously appeals to some players.
I tried ISA, Swam and Bug Hunt advance which are included but takes ages to start now. Not had 30mins in those 3 but I have had long waits compared to before TFO came out.
So, Cryptic has set the priority for filling different queues inside the random system...and sounds like it favors system selected queues over player selected ones?
And players who want to pick and choose from the list, can not tell which queue is the most full so no one knows where to go for fastest play. AND the random system is leaving them behind. Why isn't it first come, first served?
Sounds like a legit complaint to me.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
> @pottsey5g said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> > @pottsey5g said:
> > azrael605 wrote: »
> >
> > Ultimatums are a waste of typing time. You will not get any result from it.
> >
> >
> >
> > The way I see it there are only two outcomes and either one will give me a positive result.
>
> There is only 1 outcome, your ultimatum is ignored entirely. The same single outcome that every ultimatum that has ever been made on these forums has gotten, yours will be no different whatsoever.
>
>
>
> It’s not that type of ultimatum. I have set a deadline as otherwise I will keep coming back week in week out trying to get the system to work, failing and wasting time. So I have set a deadline to avoid the past weeks frustration overflowing into following weeks. I cannot think of a more frustrating change that has had such a negative impact on my play experience going all the way back to alpha/beta. It doesn't help that my entire friends list and fleet have left the game for similar reasons.
>
> It wont be ignored entirely as its more for me and people who know me then the devs.
It means nothing and nobody but you and your friends will care.
I have no complaints about this system, have not had any problem queueing up for any specific TFO, including missions I have never played before. I haven't spent this much time playing queues since before DR, and I am loving it.
Which is why I posted it as it does mean something. Not for the devs but for the people who know me and care. Just because you do not care and just because you are having a good time it doesn't mean no one else cares and that everyone else is haveing a good time of the change. Clearly there are major problems in the new system that effect some players. Problems that could be fixed without having any impact on players like you. While the new system has benefited some players its punishing another batch of players all due to bad design. One small design tweak and its possible to have both groups benefit without anyone losing out.
We now have three people who are not getting what you are getting. That makes you the outlier since all the other positive results are for clicking random...which we all admit it basically instant queue and a good thing if you are okay with that option.
I would say that the 3 people against the rest of the player base is the outlier. Not the cherry picked unscientific 4 person sampling. Besides, I actually have experienced what you have outside of the RTFO system with CCA a few months ago as I posted the above. I just haven't experienced it recently. I do agree that all this discussion warrants investigation because queues not popping would be a huge problem that needs to be fixed. If it does happen to me again at some point, I'll try to time it instead of using the workaround I did last time.
So really, how much have you tested the new queue system? With how many different maps? Because I am getting the feeling you are only using popular maps and have only done the seed your own a few times. So some details please on why you think you can seed a queue and have it pop quickly when there are three people on here now telling you that is not the case.
The clear majority of my maps that I personally select are DRSA which is my 2nd favorite queue behind colony invasion. Probably over 50% of my selections have been DRSA. I would run colony invasion but I tested it out and I'm sure it doesn't work with RTFO since it's a really old FED only queue and it never popped for me going back several months now.
The other maps that I've selected on my own at least once have been ISA, ISN, KSN, CPN, Storming the Spire Normal, SB1 Advanced, BOTSA, BHN, Miner Instabilities Normal, Romulan Imperial Minefield (not even sure if this qualifies for RTFO but it popped), Swarm Normal, and Swarm Advanced.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I tried ISA, Swam and Bug Hunt advance which are included but takes ages to start now. Not had 30mins in those 3 but I have had long waits compared to before TFO came out.
So, Cryptic has set the priority for filling different queues inside the random system...and sounds like it favors system selected queues over player selected ones?
And players who want to pick and choose from the list, can not tell which queue is the most full so no one knows where to go for fastest play. AND the random system is leaving them behind. Why isn't it first come, first served?
As far as I know, the system would never pick a queue by itself unless all the queues were empty. It will always pick the one that has the most people in it.
And players who want the fastest play, can just join everything at once.
I've seen TFOs I know qualify for the RTFO system take a long time to launch if you're queued manually. I think it might be related to the old reporting bug. IE, there's a code widget that passes data from one database on the server to another. This widget doesn't run often enough to keep the numbers up to date.
I have an alternate hypothesis: I call it the "****blocking" hypothesis. If there are, say, 3 queues, A(zure Nebula), B, and C, in that order, and each of A(zure Nebula), B, and C all have one person seeding them, and 4 random players join, they will fill the first available opening, and thus you get A. If 4 more players join, you then get B. But if one person then seeds A or B before 4 more people can arrive, C will be blocked and never pop, so A or B wil pop again on the next 4.
So if your queue is ordered on the list behind some more popular queue that someone will nearly always seed, you get blocked forever. And we know that there IS such a list, COUGH AZURE NEBULA COUGH.
That would be a pretty naive way to resolve multiple queues with identical lengths. I suppose it's possible but I don't see what the point would be of not using an RNG in a system that's named for randomness.
But then if you have those 3 queues with one person in them, it's very much likely the random queue would very often pick something entirely different that has 2+ people in it. Because there are dozens of queues in the game, not 3.
BTW, I've never been to Azure Nebula through the randoms. It's put me in ISA a lot, though.
EDIT: And there's another thread here people complaining it puts them in the borg STFs too much...popular content is popular.
If they are getting reports that random TFO system is NOT filling the teams for players that choose to manually select from the PvE Queues listing, that is rather worrisome.
Hopefully, someone is making themselves busy over at Cryptic to figure it out.
I don't think they intended this system to leave so many people "out in the cold".
Wasn't this the problem they were trying to resolve?
The other problem they were trying to address was getting more of the different queues played. Ones that normally did not get played. So, I do not think they intend this system to have people do the same queues over and over.
Maybe they did not add enough variety to the system to start off with?
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Personally, I kinda like doing queues I've not done for awhile.
Till I get that Undine mission to kill the planet killers every other time!
And since you're not prepared for that one with the right gear, your ship floats all over the freaking place.
While having the choice of RTFOs is nice, the way Cryptic did it was heavy handed and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Removing RAs and throwing RTFOs in our faces. All but admitting they CANNOT make older queues viable w/o removing the queues players wanted to do first and 'bribes' of extra marks.
Personally, I kinda like doing queues I've not done for awhile.
Till I get that Undine mission to kill the planet killers every other time!
And since you're not prepared for that one with the right gear, your ship floats all over the freaking place.
While having the choice of RTFOs is nice, the way Cryptic did it was heavy handed and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Removing RAs and throwing RTFOs in our faces. All but admitting they CANNOT make older queues viable w/o removing the queues players wanted to do first and 'bribes' of extra marks.
There are two kill the planet killer queues. And how do you end up in them all the time? I pretty much never see them at all. Wonder if the RNG is time based...or player specific...so you get undine all the time while I get borg all the time.
Honestly, I just want a space or ground option. That is all.
I have never seen that one either. The ones I get the most often are Gateway to Gre'thor, Cure Found, and Defend Starbase One.
@ruinthefun Do you think the system is favoring the filling of the queues that is listed in the Mission Journal, too??? Hence pushing the players' manual selection further back?
@coldnapalm They may setting too many conditions on this one system for it to work in the most streamlined way. Trying control what is random.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Personally, I kinda like doing queues I've not done for awhile.
Till I get that Undine mission to kill the planet killers every other time!
And since you're not prepared for that one with the right gear, your ship floats all over the freaking place.
Haven't run into that one on random myself. I still do it with premades since the fleet mark return is great. You really don't need anything special gear wise. Just what you would normally use in ISA or whatever. IIRC Hazard Emitters clears the hold from the Undine rifts.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Personally, I kinda like doing queues I've not done for awhile.
Till I get that Undine mission to kill the planet killers every other time!
And since you're not prepared for that one with the right gear, your ship floats all over the freaking place.
You mean that engine or shield or whatever it was in the undine rep? Just keep it on your shuttle and switch it in if you want to. Personally, I've never even tried it. The floaty effect is trivial.
While having the choice of RTFOs is nice, the way Cryptic did it was heavy handed and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Removing RAs and throwing RTFOs in our faces. All but admitting they CANNOT make older queues viable w/o removing the queues players wanted to do first and 'bribes' of extra marks.
Of course they can't. Not without giving them unique rewards, which they for whatever reason only they know are avoiding.
Except it's newer queues they can't make viable. The favorites are all old (ISA, CCA, borg/tholian alerts). New queues people only play for as long as it takes for them to spoil the rewards in the choiceboxes.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
It wont be ignored entirely as its more for me and people who know me then the devs.
So, Cryptic has set the priority for filling different queues inside the random system...and sounds like it favors system selected queues over player selected ones?
And players who want to pick and choose from the list, can not tell which queue is the most full so no one knows where to go for fastest play. AND the random system is leaving them behind. Why isn't it first come, first served?
Sounds like a legit complaint to me.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
The clear majority of my maps that I personally select are DRSA which is my 2nd favorite queue behind colony invasion. Probably over 50% of my selections have been DRSA. I would run colony invasion but I tested it out and I'm sure it doesn't work with RTFO since it's a really old FED only queue and it never popped for me going back several months now.
The other maps that I've selected on my own at least once have been ISA, ISN, KSN, CPN, Storming the Spire Normal, SB1 Advanced, BOTSA, BHN, Miner Instabilities Normal, Romulan Imperial Minefield (not even sure if this qualifies for RTFO but it popped), Swarm Normal, and Swarm Advanced.
My character Tsin'xing
And players who want the fastest play, can just join everything at once.
That would be a pretty naive way to resolve multiple queues with identical lengths. I suppose it's possible but I don't see what the point would be of not using an RNG in a system that's named for randomness.
But then if you have those 3 queues with one person in them, it's very much likely the random queue would very often pick something entirely different that has 2+ people in it. Because there are dozens of queues in the game, not 3.
BTW, I've never been to Azure Nebula through the randoms. It's put me in ISA a lot, though.
EDIT: And there's another thread here people complaining it puts them in the borg STFs too much...popular content is popular.
Hopefully, someone is making themselves busy over at Cryptic to figure it out.
I don't think they intended this system to leave so many people "out in the cold".
Wasn't this the problem they were trying to resolve?
The other problem they were trying to address was getting more of the different queues played.
Ones that normally did not get played. So, I do not think they intend this system to have people do the same queues over and over.
Maybe they did not add enough variety to the system to start off with?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Till I get that Undine mission to kill the planet killers every other time!
And since you're not prepared for that one with the right gear, your ship floats all over the freaking place.
While having the choice of RTFOs is nice, the way Cryptic did it was heavy handed and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Removing RAs and throwing RTFOs in our faces. All but admitting they CANNOT make older queues viable w/o removing the queues players wanted to do first and 'bribes' of extra marks.
I have never seen that one either. The ones I get the most often are Gateway to Gre'thor, Cure Found, and Defend Starbase One.
@coldnapalm They may setting too many conditions on this one system for it to work in the most streamlined way. Trying control what is random.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Of course they can't. Not without giving them unique rewards, which they for whatever reason only they know are avoiding.
Except it's newer queues they can't make viable. The favorites are all old (ISA, CCA, borg/tholian alerts). New queues people only play for as long as it takes for them to spoil the rewards in the choiceboxes.