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Flashing grass on Risa
frtoaster
Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
Holodeck ticket 4,724,452 (submitted on 06/25/2018)
The grass on Risa flashes as I move around. When this happens, the geometry of the grass is briefly visible before the textures pop in. The grass geometry looks like a solid green object without textures. Usually, I see the bug when my character is moving, but sometimes the bug can be triggered by simply moving the camera. The bug does not occur when the camera is still.
I first learned of this bug four days ago on Reddit. FrankObolobolopoulos told me that he saw "random ghostly green rocks etc. flickering in and out of existence on Nomulus and Risa". At the time, I didn't know what he was talking about. After checking out Risa for myself, I concluded that the "ghosts" he saw weren't rocks, but grass.
https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/8sech8/lightingshadow_flickering/e10d895/
Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2DpRqpLioI (Lighting 2.0: Off)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvdnUvIfw00 (Lighting 2.0: On)
Steps to reproduce
1. Go to Risa.
2. Turn Lighting 2.0 off.
3. Activate a floater and fly around Risa.
4. Pay attention to the grass, and notice that it flashes as you move.
5. Turn Lighting 2.0 on. Repeat steps 3 and 4.
Graphics Settings
https://i.imgur.com/uIVIUtd.png
https://i.imgur.com/SOwokAm.png
https://i.imgur.com/c8I2gGk.png
System Information
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Service Pack 1
CPU: Intel Core i7-4700MQ
RAM: 12 GB
Video card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 765M (2 GB GDDR5)
Vanilla edit monster, don't eat this bug report.
The grass on Risa flashes as I move around. When this happens, the geometry of the grass is briefly visible before the textures pop in. The grass geometry looks like a solid green object without textures. Usually, I see the bug when my character is moving, but sometimes the bug can be triggered by simply moving the camera. The bug does not occur when the camera is still.
I first learned of this bug four days ago on Reddit. FrankObolobolopoulos told me that he saw "random ghostly green rocks etc. flickering in and out of existence on Nomulus and Risa". At the time, I didn't know what he was talking about. After checking out Risa for myself, I concluded that the "ghosts" he saw weren't rocks, but grass.
https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/8sech8/lightingshadow_flickering/e10d895/
Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2DpRqpLioI (Lighting 2.0: Off)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvdnUvIfw00 (Lighting 2.0: On)
Steps to reproduce
1. Go to Risa.
2. Turn Lighting 2.0 off.
3. Activate a floater and fly around Risa.
4. Pay attention to the grass, and notice that it flashes as you move.
5. Turn Lighting 2.0 on. Repeat steps 3 and 4.
Graphics Settings
https://i.imgur.com/uIVIUtd.png
https://i.imgur.com/SOwokAm.png
https://i.imgur.com/c8I2gGk.png
System Information
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Service Pack 1
CPU: Intel Core i7-4700MQ
RAM: 12 GB
Video card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 765M (2 GB GDDR5)
Vanilla edit monster, don't eat this bug report.
Waiting for a programmer ...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
Comments
But it is not even close to what you guys are seeing with the grass "popping in" way too late and in layers (?).
I can definitively say: I was not seeing that last night when we were on Risa together.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm not sure why I'm seeing this bug and you're not. I tried changing a bunch of graphics settings, but the bug wouldn't go away no matter what I did. I also tried the 32-bit client, but that didn't fix it either. In fact, it seems to happen slightly more often in the 32-bit client, probably because there's less memory for textures.
Are you playing on a laptop?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I turned off shadows. It does look worse on the grass that is growing on the mountain sides.
So....try Risa with shadows on LOW, at least, see if it helps.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
OK, I did some more testing tonight, and I think I know now why you may not be seeing the bug. For some reason, this bug is related to the "Shadows" setting. I normally have "Shadows" set to "Off". If I set "Shadows" to "Low", "Medium", or "High", I no longer see the light green blobs. However, I still see blue-green flashes as I fly along the grass. So there might be two different bugs here. In my judgment, both bugs are caused by the grass geometry becoming visible when it shouldn't be. Also, a friend of mine told me that she doesn't see the light green blobs if "Limit Frame Rate" is set to 30, but she does if it's set to 60.
LOL! We must have been typing at the same time.
Anyhoo...I am off the computer for the night.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Yes.
Yes, it seems that way.
I have no clue why grass is related to the "Shadows" setting, but that's what's happening. Hopefully, this will be enough information for them to debug it.
Although, I think this is the second time we found "Shadows" setting messing graphics up.
From now on, when you see something (and if I am there and I don't)....should try "shadow" settings, first....even if it does not make any sense at all (like this grass thing).
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
One other thing I am noticing though is that for at least the last 2 months every time I start up the game, I need to readjust my Brightness settings in the game. It's far too dark initially so I go in and adjust it one notch in either direction and then set it back to where I normally have it and it'll stay that way until I close the game and restart. Saving the setting does nothing so I need to do this every time.
Also, DS9 is very dark and none of the workarounds I've found actually work for me, aside from turning on Lighting 2.0. But Lighting 2.0 is such a drag on my system in some maps I just stick with L1.0 instead of having to go in and change it all the time.
Then there is the "line" being drawn on most ground maps I've seen and at least one space map (the final space battle at the end of Boldly They Rode, the lower half of DS9 is missing during that fight) and I see you have both commented there as well.
Perhaps all these things are related in some oddball way?
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
I see what you are seeing when I turn bloom on, when it takes a second to adjust. Maybe yours is not adjusting like it should. Try turning Bloom off and turning it back on (or vice versa)...instead of adjusting your brightness.
Neither Frtoaster or I have been able to figure out the horizontal line going across most interiors of buildings, caves, etc. when using Lighting 1.0....that disappears when using Lighting 2.0. And why we are seeing it after ViL patch.
He thinks it has something to do with how buildings are oriented on a map. They use those lines to make sure the "asset" (or several assets) is oriented to each other and the "ground", properly. I do not notice that horizon line in outdoor scenes in the game. I am sure it is there, somewhere. But why we can see it now....beats me.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
And I am probably not going to replace anything on my system...just for STO (the only action video game I play).
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm not currently in game but the next time I am I'll make a list of what settings I have.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Display
Display Mode - Windowed Maxed
Fullscreen Resolution - 1920x1080 @ 60hz
Fullscreen Refresh Rate - 60hz
Brightness - 100%
Monitor vertical sync - ON
Antialiasing - MSAA - 8x
Graphics
Screen
Postprocessing - ON
Bloom Quality - OFF
Screen-space ambient occlusion - OFF
Cinematic Focus - OFF
Lens Flare - OFF
Underwater view - ON
Effects
Texture anisotropic filtering - 16x
Visual fx quality - HIGH
Soft particles - ON
Reflection quality - HIGH
Detail
World Detail Distance - HIGH
Terrain detail distance - HIGH
Character detail distance - HIGH
Show high detail objects - ON
Max physics debris objects - 5
Lights
Lighting 2.0 - OFF
Dynamic lighting - ON
Shadows - HIGH
Max lights per object - 3
Max shadowed lights - 2
Advanced
Reduced file streaming - ON
Software cursor - OFF
Minimum shadow buffer bias - OFF
Reduce CPU/GPU usage - OFF
Bloom intensity - 0%
World texture detail - 200%
Character texture detail - 200%
Framerate stablilizer - OFF
Auto-stabilize framerate - OFF
Limit CPU usage when inactive - ON
Multi-core rendering - ON
Limit framerate - 30
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
I started noticing it when the Renegades Regret was released, but it got much worse when ViL launched. Any time I interacted with Neth Parr in the holding area, the line was there at about her upper chest/lower shoulder area, but only on her model, not the surrounding textures. When she would move, the line stayed put so it looked almost like she was moving past a window. Not sure how else to describe it. I almost thought it may have had something to do with the shield on the cell being a "transparent" texture and it not fully going away after releasing her. But now that I see it on all ground maps, I have no idea. Not like I'm good at figuring this type of thing out anyway.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Just for testing....Turned OFF "Shadows".
And lo and behold....grass was OK. Just lost a lot of depth in details because there was no shadows.
So, whatever update happened on Risa, did not happen to the older KDF missions. Hopefully, that would help with hunting this down.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Try DS9 with Bloom Quality ON (under Postprocessing)...with Bloom Intensity set to 0% in the Advanced Tab. That is how I have it set on mine. And I can see in DS9 without a problem.
Screen Space Ambient Occlusion is the only thing I have turned OFF under Post Processing.
What that does is feather out the edges and corners with shadows to blend it in better.
For me...it just makes First City feel darker, so I leave it off.
World Detail Distance, Terrain detail distance, and Character detail distance.
Mine is set to: Medium, High, Medium.
Max physics debris objects. Mine is set to 200.
I don't see how you can tell what is exploding or if you can see Party Poppers working at all with it set at 5.
World texture detail and Character texture detail:
Mine is set at 100% and it says it does not help if higher. Yours is set for 200%!!!
If you are having texture loading problems that is where I would start.
And why have you decided to limit frame rate to 30? Mine is at 60.
I thought most monitors refresh at 60. Are you on a laptop, too?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
To be clear, I still see the blue-green flashes when shadows are off; only the light green ones go away. If you don't know what blue-green flashes I'm talking about, rewatch the video that I recorded with Lighting 2.0 turned on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvdnUvIfw00 (Lighting 2.0: On)
The blue-green flashes appear when Lighting 2.0 is off too, even with shadows enabled.
Fixed URL. Vanilla, please don't eat my post.
The horizontal line appears on the bridges and the four gray pillars at Starfleet Academy.
I thought the line showed where the height was zero on the map. But after looking at where the line appears on the buildings on Risa, I no longer think that's the case.
That's exactly what I did, though for this to work, "Postprocessing" has to be turned on too.
You should try turning "Bloom quality" on and setting "Bloom intensity" to 0%, as where2r1 suggested. (For this to work, "Postprocessing" also has to be on.) I know it doesn't make much sense. It is my belief that "Bloom quality" is misnamed. It appears to affect more than just bloom. Many maps look too dark if "Bloom quality" is off, but I don't think the cause is a lack of bloom. I think it's because something else gets turned off when "Bloom quality" is off.
Yes, and it annoys me to no end.
Did you try toggling "Monitor Vertical Sync"?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I still see blue-green flashes when "Monitor vertical sync" is on. In fact, "Monitor vertical sync" makes the problem significantly worse when both Lighting 2.0 is on and "Limit Frame Rate" is set to 60. The only thing that gets rid of the blue-green flashes for me is setting "Limit Frame Rate" to 30. But limiting the frame rate doesn't get rid of the light green flashes, at least not for me; the only thing that helps with that is turning on shadows.
Not sure what those do exactly, or if they both need to be on at all.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
The reason I have Max physics debris objects set so low is partially because of party poppers (I dislike them) but also because it just creates too much screen clutter for me. I will however turn it up the next time I play, instead of just map hopping, to see if it affects me as much as I remember. I've never had trouble seeing explosions but who knows, maybe I'm just going senile in my old age.
While I'm not on a laptop, I set my Limit framerate at 30 because I really don't see any difference in framerate above 30, so I figured why not save some system resources. I have a friend who says he sees the difference but I really don't, or if I do it's not that big a difference for me to get more. But, if this setting works better set higher, or at least at the monitor refresh rate, it won't hurt to try. I've never seemed to have a problem before though.
World texture detail and Character texture detail are at 200% because while it says that "Values above 100% are generally not useful", I can see a difference there at times. I haven't noticed any issues with texture loading, aside from the grass on New Romulus.
Also, while trying out my new settings, I noticed those pillars at Starfleet Academy and yes, that stupid line is still there but only on two sides of the pillars, the South and East sides. I'd seen the line on them before but I just never noticed it only appears on 2 sides. That seems strange to me.
Thanks for the tips.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Eh, my "old" computer.....I had to run STO at "Half Resolution".
I actually turned down "Resolution Scale" a bit on my new computer because I didn't like the sharpness. I was so used to seeing it look more "cartoon-y" and indistinct...it didn't look right to me when crisp. LOL! I only recently adjusted it back to 1....and I am still not sure I like it that way.
I am trying to remember what I had the "Debris" option set to on my old computer...because I liked the party poppers and wanted to see them, but the computer couldn't do the max. I want to say it was set for 100??? If I set it below that I could not see the party poppers. I don't think you have to go as low as 5.
That is one thing that I do not see...I used to see "dandelion seeds" (my description of it) I think it is supposed to be pollen from tropical plants floating around the air on Risa. I don't remember seeing that the other night I was over there.
And when you say "I set it at 200%" ....what are you seeing a difference with? Frame rate? Picture quality??
I wonder if THAT would help Frtoaster with those ghostly orbs. Are you seeing Orbs when floating around Risa????
Framerate seems variable in this game....I have read in the forums before some people see a drop just opening up a UI window.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
As for the debris, even with it as low as 5 I still see the Party Popper stuff, especially the balloons. As I said, too much screen clutter for my taste, but I did turn it up for a quick Swarm queue run and I saw no major difference performance wise or in the detail of explosions.
Framerates do take a hit when opening up some UI windows for me but that's pretty common with STO so I don't open windows in the middle of a fight and I'm good.
I haven't had a chance to head back to New Romulus yet to see if the grass is still acting up, but I will make it a point go go and look later.
As for the "dandelion seeds" on Risa, I remember those. When using a floater it was almost like being at warp and having the stars streak by. I'll have to head there too and see for myself if they did remove that effect.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
I'm now on Risa and I'm not seeing the grass flashing like on New Romulus. So I suppose that's a plus, but it does make one wonder why it isn't doing this on both maps.
Also, the dandelion seeds are still there on Risa, for me at least.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
I still see flashing grass with all texture and LOD (level-of-detail) settings maxed.
World detail distance: Max
Terrain detail distance: Max
Character detail distance: Max
World texture detail: 200%
Character texture detail: 200%
Those were some of the first settings that I tried. Maybe, the blue-green flashes appear slightly less often with those settings, but I'm not entirely sure about that. And the light-green flashes don't seem to be affected at all by texture and LOD settings; only turning on shadows helps with that.
OK, I tried turning on both of those settings, but that doesn't seem to help either.
I'm not sure it makes sense to say that a game runs "better" at 60 fps than 30 fps on a 60 Hz monitor, if by "better" you mean "fewer bugs" rather than "smoother". It's true that many people prefer higher frame rates, but if you can't see the difference, then you can't see the difference. It's also possible that you're not getting a full 60 frames per second. The option "Limit Frame Rate" only caps your frame rate. Your actual frame rate may be lower. To see your frame rate in-game, type the following commands in the chat window:
/hidedevui 0
/showfps 1
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Oh and whenever I change something on graphics settings Lighting 2.0 mysteriously turns itself on.