Can we PLEASE stop trying to loot the KDF for their unique stuff already?
Don't you hate klingons anyway?
I hate some Klingons, sure. That doesn't mean I think the game factions shouldn't play differently or have stuff unique to them.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
> @jbmonroe said:
> As seen in Enterprise, the main timeline Orions are sketchy to say the least. We haven't seen the modern-day Kelvin timeline, and it may turn out that the Orions aren't a favored trading partner with that version of the Federation all these years later. Their self-interest doesn't jibe well with expressed Federation principles.
We have seen multiple Orions in Starfleet in the Kelvin Timeline.
Yes--200 years in the past from the standpoint of STO. (Unless that one round of Kelvin missions was supposed to be taking place in the present day version of their timeline, in which case, wow, what a case of technical stagnation.)
sure it would be nice to have orions added but what i really want is to be able to dress my other female fed toons in those sexy Orion outfits
This is all this question boils down to. Just the outfit. Which they could solve just by allowing full beach wear outside of Risa. Which you can wear some pieces, but not all of them.
If anyone besides KDF should get the Orions, it should be the Romulans. That makes sense for a lot of reasons. As I understand it, in the Star Trek prime universe canon, no Orion ever served in Starfleet. Still, I once played a pen and paper RPG, and my character was the first Orion in Starfleet. If Orions did become available for Feds in STO, I would definitely make this character here. As it is now, he is my main KDF character, because that's the closest thing I could do. This one character aside, Orions make more sense for the Romulans.
kidflash, that male BOFF is a bit disproportionate...he looks like he's about to topple over sideways. But I do prefer my males to look proportionate, JMO.
Still...no. There were no Orions in Starfleet in ToS timeline.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I'm not so bothered by the outfits, I just want the green women with authentic traits.
Taking free will and individuality into account (along with special circumstances like Worfs), it's realistic to imagine there would be those willing to buck tradition.
Besides, how do we know there were none in TOS Starfleet? We only saw one ship and a handful of other non-Enterprise officers.
As seen in Enterprise, the main timeline Orions are sketchy to say the least. We haven't seen the modern-day Kelvin timeline, and it may turn out that the Orions aren't a favored trading partner with that version of the Federation all these years later. Their self-interest doesn't jibe well with expressed Federation principles.
Yeah, they WEREN'T a member race in TOS. KT is different, apparently they ARE a member in KT.
Why THAT different? no idea. Maybe in KT there was an Orion equivalent of the Praxis disaster which caused them to resort to being honest when applying for Federation membership. Realistically Orions aren't an evil race. They're people.... green people. Most modern Orions in the main timeline and STO are slaver or associated with some other criminals. Although there are hints that Orion civilization used to be different. Apparently they have what used to be exceptionally advanced medical tech. Hmm... now I have an idea for a Foundry mission....
Why not unlock X race on the other side once Y toon of X race reaches max level?
From an internal coding perspective, Fed Klingons and KDF Klingons are actually different species. Thus, that'd require more than doubling the number of races in the game. (because Romulans.)
Ummmm, No. If you want a Federation Orion equivalent, though, let's add the Deltans.
The Deltans are not the Orion equivalent at all, they are dangerously powerful empaths, not chemical based. The closest to that would be the Elysians (who like the Orions are one of the little buffer states between the Federation and Klingon borders).
I don't see a problem with it, though I voted 'other'-there's a reason.
I don't see FedOrions from ToS/kelvin/etc. dressing in stripper-floss for a 'uniform', they'd basically have access to the same uniforms as other Federation officers. (but with the 'seduce' ability).
True, given the amount of flack Ro Laren was given over one erring it is obvious that there is no way Starfleet would even consider allowing someone to run around in dancing silks as a uniform.
There is no canon reason there could not be some Orions in Starfleet in the current timeframe (though not in TOS unless they were in intelligence positions since the regular Starfleet apparently did not accept recruits from "provisional associate" worlds (apparently what the Federation called their end of the buffer)). There is a good theory that by the middle of the 2200s the Orion pirates took advantage of that buffer status since the government could counter complaints from the Federation or the Empire by saying they were criminals associated with the "other" side.
On the other hand, it is true that fewer people would probably play KDF if they could play Orions in the Federation.
That was my thought, too. And then I remembered a couple of things.
We saw two and a half-ish Orions in TOS, along with a couple of other references, so let's see what we can make of them.
In "The Cage" Captain Pike refers to becoming a merchant in the Orion colonies. Dr. Boyce scoffs at the idea of Pike becoming a dealer in "green animal-women slaves". Later we see Vina as an Orion. Now Vina is simply embodying (via the Talosian's illusions) Pike's idea of an Orion, which may or may not be accurate (see below). So I'm counting her as the 1/2 example.
In Pike's vision of the Orion colonies, it's Orion women being sold by humans, not by other Orions. While his views of Orion women may not be accurate, I'd expect a Starfleet captain to understand the basics of interstellar politics and geography. This Orion colony (at least) is not a colony OF Orions, merely on a planet orbiting an Orion star. While that doesn't reflect well on the Federation, it's possible that it's a Federation colony "gone wrong". The first, but not the last we'd see on Trek. In PIke's time, parts (at least) of Orion WERE in the Federation. Not law abiding member worlds, but Federation colonies, nonetheless. Think of some of the shadier examples of colonialism on earth, and you'll see where I'm going with this. Because of this, I could see a sort of justification for Fed-side Orions at that point in history, but that's not the end of the story.
Dr. Korby in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" was stated to have done archaeological work in Orion ruins.
The first "full" Orion we see in TOS...is MALE! Yes, and he's not a hulking ogre either, but about middling human height and build. You don't remember him? Possibly that's because he was disguised as an Andorian. In "Journey to Babel". He stabbed Kirk, and was revealed at the end of the episode to be an Orion, surgically altered to appear Andorian. I'll buy the surgery adding fake antennae with communicator hardware in them, and the skin colour and so on, but NOT shrinking an 8' 400 lb. hulk to 5'6" and 150 lbs.! That wouldn't be (even advanced) surgery, but some serious transporter shenanigans. So maybe not ALL Orion men are Lou Ferrigno wannabes. Perhaps even most are normal size, and the giants are simply more representative of the Syndicate thugs.
By that point, Orion is clearly established as neutral. "Journey to Babel" refers to Orion neutrality, clearly indicating it is NOT a part of the Federation. Whether the colonies failed, were kicked out, conquered in a slave revolt or what have you, by Kirk's day Orions are aliens in the political sense of the word, not just the extraterrestrial sense. At that point, a Starfleet Orion character is untenable.
And TOS references a male Orion poet (of all things) in "The City on the Edge of Forever", when Kirk quotes a 21st century Orion poet to Edith Keeler. "From a planet, orbiting the far left star in Orion's Belt." He recommends "Let me help" even over the words "I love you". So there has been some positive cultural exchange, (possibly during the colonial days).
And then our last TOS Orion (the only unaltered and non-illusionary one we meet) is Marta. She's delusional and homicidally insane, and an inmate in a Federation mental rehabilitation facility in "Whom Gods Destroy". She does, however, TALK intelligibly, if not always coherently, giving the lie to Boyce's crack (and Pike's image) in "The Cage". Does the fact that she's in a Federation institution mean that she's a Fed citizen? Does it indicate that Orion finally lost it's neutrality and joined the UFP? Or just that she was a charity case, caring for a little lost alien whom no one back home wanted. Too bad she accepted that exploding necklace, we can't ask her.
So that's what TOS has to say about the Orions. So on the whole, I had to vote no on TOS Fed Orions.
> @markhawkman said: > Yeah, they WEREN'T a member race in TOS. KT is different, apparently they ARE a member in KT. > > Why THAT different? no idea. Maybe in KT there was an Orion equivalent of the Praxis disaster which caused them to resort to being honest when applying for Federation membership. Realistically Orions aren't an evil race. They're people.... green people. Most modern Orions in the main timeline and STO are slaver or associated with some other criminals. Although there are hints that Orion civilization used to be different. Apparently they have what used to be exceptionally advanced medical tech. Hmm... now I have an idea for a Foundry mission....
Word of God is that Gaila escaped the slave trade. I guess Bad Robot chose to ignore "Bounty" on grounds of it's a stupid episode. Or, more charitably, perhaps while the women rule Orion culture, not all women are in fact rulers or even have any authority.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'd be cool with Fed Orion without most of the special costume unlocks and even without the Seduce trait --say that to serve they have to take pheremone supressors. Would that make people happy?
The pheromone suppressor that you mention, is a RP contrived load of bullsnot. It does not exist in the game, nor even in lore. Look it up on mem-alpha.
I'd be cool with Fed Orion without most of the special costume unlocks and even without the Seduce trait --say that to serve they have to take pheremone supressors. Would that make people happy?
The pheromone suppressor that you mention, is a RP contrived load of bullsnot. It does not exist in the game, nor even in lore. Look it up on mem-alpha.
Pheromone suppressors might not be a thing but the Oath of Celibacy: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Oath_of_celibacy is. Whilst it only appears in relation to Deltans I can easily see it being applied to Orions serving in Starfleet. It would however just be a background thing and not a mechanic.
But regardless I say no to giving the TOS mini-faction playable Orions
> @lianthelia said:
> gradii wrote: »
>
> Playable orions for 25th century federation, and Gorn would be cool. We can have fed klingons but not gorn? why? becuase worf? hahahahhaa. but that's not LOGIC that's precedent.
>
>
>
>
> At least 3 Klingons in Starfleet vs 0 Orions...
There are more than 3 Orions in Starfleet in the first Kelvin Timeline film.
But this isn't the Kelvin timeline?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I have to say no. Orions are an antagonist species. I realize Vulcans technically are, too, namely in ENT and to a much lesser extent in DS9. But Orions are active slavers, pirates, implied sexual abusers (those slavegirls in ENT), and generally criminal by Federation standards. They weren't designed for the Federation.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Comments
I hate some Klingons, sure. That doesn't mean I think the game factions shouldn't play differently or have stuff unique to them.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Orions should remain KDF-exclusive.
Yes--200 years in the past from the standpoint of STO. (Unless that one round of Kelvin missions was supposed to be taking place in the present day version of their timeline, in which case, wow, what a case of technical stagnation.)
This is all this question boils down to. Just the outfit. Which they could solve just by allowing full beach wear outside of Risa. Which you can wear some pieces, but not all of them.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Take those TRIBBLE off our hands.
Give us the Ferengis and all associated discounts.
TRIBBLE for tat....both unscrupulous in their own way.
One is a bit more useful than eye candy.
This Klingon thanks you, very muchly.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Still...no. There were no Orions in Starfleet in ToS timeline.
Taking free will and individuality into account (along with special circumstances like Worfs), it's realistic to imagine there would be those willing to buck tradition.
Besides, how do we know there were none in TOS Starfleet? We only saw one ship and a handful of other non-Enterprise officers.
Lifetime needs more perks to justify the cost. For what they paid, they should get more then what they have.
Why THAT different? no idea. Maybe in KT there was an Orion equivalent of the Praxis disaster which caused them to resort to being honest when applying for Federation membership. Realistically Orions aren't an evil race. They're people.... green people. Most modern Orions in the main timeline and STO are slaver or associated with some other criminals. Although there are hints that Orion civilization used to be different. Apparently they have what used to be exceptionally advanced medical tech. Hmm... now I have an idea for a Foundry mission....
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
PSY
The Deltans are not the Orion equivalent at all, they are dangerously powerful empaths, not chemical based. The closest to that would be the Elysians (who like the Orions are one of the little buffer states between the Federation and Klingon borders).
True, given the amount of flack Ro Laren was given over one erring it is obvious that there is no way Starfleet would even consider allowing someone to run around in dancing silks as a uniform.
There is no canon reason there could not be some Orions in Starfleet in the current timeframe (though not in TOS unless they were in intelligence positions since the regular Starfleet apparently did not accept recruits from "provisional associate" worlds (apparently what the Federation called their end of the buffer)). There is a good theory that by the middle of the 2200s the Orion pirates took advantage of that buffer status since the government could counter complaints from the Federation or the Empire by saying they were criminals associated with the "other" side.
On the other hand, it is true that fewer people would probably play KDF if they could play Orions in the Federation.
We saw two and a half-ish Orions in TOS, along with a couple of other references, so let's see what we can make of them.
In "The Cage" Captain Pike refers to becoming a merchant in the Orion colonies. Dr. Boyce scoffs at the idea of Pike becoming a dealer in "green animal-women slaves". Later we see Vina as an Orion. Now Vina is simply embodying (via the Talosian's illusions) Pike's idea of an Orion, which may or may not be accurate (see below). So I'm counting her as the 1/2 example.
In Pike's vision of the Orion colonies, it's Orion women being sold by humans, not by other Orions. While his views of Orion women may not be accurate, I'd expect a Starfleet captain to understand the basics of interstellar politics and geography. This Orion colony (at least) is not a colony OF Orions, merely on a planet orbiting an Orion star. While that doesn't reflect well on the Federation, it's possible that it's a Federation colony "gone wrong". The first, but not the last we'd see on Trek. In PIke's time, parts (at least) of Orion WERE in the Federation. Not law abiding member worlds, but Federation colonies, nonetheless. Think of some of the shadier examples of colonialism on earth, and you'll see where I'm going with this. Because of this, I could see a sort of justification for Fed-side Orions at that point in history, but that's not the end of the story.
Dr. Korby in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" was stated to have done archaeological work in Orion ruins.
The first "full" Orion we see in TOS...is MALE! Yes, and he's not a hulking ogre either, but about middling human height and build. You don't remember him? Possibly that's because he was disguised as an Andorian. In "Journey to Babel". He stabbed Kirk, and was revealed at the end of the episode to be an Orion, surgically altered to appear Andorian. I'll buy the surgery adding fake antennae with communicator hardware in them, and the skin colour and so on, but NOT shrinking an 8' 400 lb. hulk to 5'6" and 150 lbs.! That wouldn't be (even advanced) surgery, but some serious transporter shenanigans. So maybe not ALL Orion men are Lou Ferrigno wannabes. Perhaps even most are normal size, and the giants are simply more representative of the Syndicate thugs.
By that point, Orion is clearly established as neutral. "Journey to Babel" refers to Orion neutrality, clearly indicating it is NOT a part of the Federation. Whether the colonies failed, were kicked out, conquered in a slave revolt or what have you, by Kirk's day Orions are aliens in the political sense of the word, not just the extraterrestrial sense. At that point, a Starfleet Orion character is untenable.
And TOS references a male Orion poet (of all things) in "The City on the Edge of Forever", when Kirk quotes a 21st century Orion poet to Edith Keeler. "From a planet, orbiting the far left star in Orion's Belt." He recommends "Let me help" even over the words "I love you". So there has been some positive cultural exchange, (possibly during the colonial days).
And then our last TOS Orion (the only unaltered and non-illusionary one we meet) is Marta. She's delusional and homicidally insane, and an inmate in a Federation mental rehabilitation facility in "Whom Gods Destroy". She does, however, TALK intelligibly, if not always coherently, giving the lie to Boyce's crack (and Pike's image) in "The Cage". Does the fact that she's in a Federation institution mean that she's a Fed citizen? Does it indicate that Orion finally lost it's neutrality and joined the UFP? Or just that she was a charity case, caring for a little lost alien whom no one back home wanted. Too bad she accepted that exploding necklace, we can't ask her.
So that's what TOS has to say about the Orions. So on the whole, I had to vote no on TOS Fed Orions.
> Yeah, they WEREN'T a member race in TOS. KT is different, apparently they ARE a member in KT.
>
> Why THAT different? no idea. Maybe in KT there was an Orion equivalent of the Praxis disaster which caused them to resort to being honest when applying for Federation membership. Realistically Orions aren't an evil race. They're people.... green people. Most modern Orions in the main timeline and STO are slaver or associated with some other criminals. Although there are hints that Orion civilization used to be different. Apparently they have what used to be exceptionally advanced medical tech. Hmm... now I have an idea for a Foundry mission....
Word of God is that Gaila escaped the slave trade. I guess Bad Robot chose to ignore "Bounty" on grounds of it's a stupid episode. Or, more charitably, perhaps while the women rule Orion culture, not all women are in fact rulers or even have any authority.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The pheromone suppressor that you mention, is a RP contrived load of bullsnot. It does not exist in the game, nor even in lore. Look it up on mem-alpha.
Pheromone suppressors might not be a thing but the Oath of Celibacy: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Oath_of_celibacy is. Whilst it only appears in relation to Deltans I can easily see it being applied to Orions serving in Starfleet. It would however just be a background thing and not a mechanic.
But regardless I say no to giving the TOS mini-faction playable Orions
But this isn't the Kelvin timeline?