> @tyler002 said: > Fleet Admirals are at least actually capable of fighting, Vorta are literally built in a way that makes them mostly useless at it.
Well said. Vorta are frail, timid and half-blind politicians, scientists and, at most, armchair generals whose only reliable trait in frontline combat is their enhanced hearing. The Dominion isn't going to waste time adapting them for frontline combat when the Jem'Hadar can, and always will, perform better in the field.
"[GARBLED ELECTRONIC NOISES]"
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
I am a woman. Because I see my character's avatars as an extension of me....I do not prefer to make males.
So, here we are....weeks/days away from new faction in STO where I can't even make a female character. Thanks, Devs, for not even bothering to find a way to include women in your new FACTION.
Everyone gets to focus on playing a Jem'hadar, the elite soldier of the Dominion...all men. Because there are no Vortas "tough" enough to compete in the story they have planned out.
So, these knuckle headed male Jem'Hadar can evolve to be without Vortas being the "go betweens" because they got smarter and off the drugs. OR Odo bred them to be better "peoples"....except there are no women, still? But the Vortas stayed stagnant?? Really?
HINT: They made this all up.
It could have easily been fixed before it got past the white board.
You should have run this by a few "sensitivity readers".
The Jem'hadar are sexless, and also the devs on the livestream said if you wanna play as a female jemmy you can, just because it looks male doesnt mean that its not female, the character is what you make it, and i know that it doesnt make it right not be able to make and actual female, and i do agree they should have made it different with them being odo's personal jemmys that he would be able to make female jemmys, but we have to go with what the devs create wether we agree or not!
So you're telling me Odo spent time making the Jem better people and enhance them but didn't bother with the Vorta? Come on that isn't believable. Vorta look like they can be adapted at most as field agents and cable field officers.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> @liannicky21 said: > where2r1 wrote: » > > I am a woman. Because I see my character's avatars as an extension of me....I do not prefer to make males. > > So, here we are....weeks/days away from new faction in STO where I can't even make a female character. Thanks, Devs, for not even bothering to find a way to include women in your new FACTION. > > Everyone gets to focus on playing a Jem'hadar, the elite soldier of the Dominion...all men. Because there are no Vortas "tough" enough to compete in the story they have planned out. > > So, these knuckle headed male Jem'Hadar can evolve to be without Vortas being the "go betweens" because they got smarter and off the drugs. OR Odo bred them to be better "peoples"....except there are no women, still? But the Vortas stayed stagnant?? Really? > > HINT: They made this all up. > It could have easily been fixed before it got past the white board. > You should have run this by a few "sensitivity readers". > > > > > > The Jem'hadar are sexless, and also the devs on the livestream said if you wanna play as a female jemmy you can, just because it looks male doesnt mean that its not female, the character is what you make it, and i know that it doesnt make it right not be able to make and actual female, and i do agree they should have made it different with them being odo's personal jemmys that he would be able to make female jemmys, but we have to go with what the devs create wether we agree or not!
Well I ain't. If that means playing whatever grind promotion (AOY and Delta Recruit) then deleting and ignoring them for good. After all we can use their ships. Still think it waste of a faction.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> @terranempire#7881 said: > So you're telling me Odo spent time making the Jem better people and enhance them but didn't bother with the Vorta? Come on that isn't believable. Vorta look like they can be adapted at most as field agents and cable field officers.
Because the Vorta don't need to be improved in that regard. They perform their duties as Diplomats and Scientists just fine. If anything, they've probably been enhanced to perform better in those particular fields, because that's what they were made to do.
"[GARBLED ELECTRONIC NOISES]"
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
Have you ever seen a Vorta fight with their Jem'Hadar crew on the ground? With how violent our captains are, it doesn't make sense to have Vorta Captains in Star Trek Online. Now if our captains were more like Captain Picard, then it would make sense to have Vorta captains.
I feel like all these issues could have really been prevented if the game had been designed to give you TWO ground avatars: A Captain and a First Officer. The first you wander about with on ESD, the latter gets sent on all those dangerous ground missions with people shooting at you. Then the Dominion fraction could have done a Vorta character for your Captain and your Jem'hadar First as your ground toon.
Sounds nice on paper, but it'd probably be a nightmare for the Devs to code right. Personally though, I'll be happy to play my Jem'Hadar 100% of the time.
"[GARBLED ELECTRONIC NOISES]"
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
The Dominion isn't going to waste time adapting them for frontline combat when the Jem'Hadar can, and always will, perform better in the field.
The Dominion has specifically adapted them to be BAD at front line combat. The Founders fear nothing more than a Solid Uprising, so each of their chosen solid servitors was designed for a specific role and given a crippling weakness that makes them poorly suited for a revolt. The Vorta can function independently, but can't see fight and thus cannot take up arms against the Founders. The Jem'hadar are optimized for battle, but are dependent on drugs and cannot survive for long on their own. It's all working as intended.
Sounds about right. It's a nice little way of keeping them both in line.
"[GARBLED ELECTRONIC NOISES]"
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
But that was the old Dominion. Since Odo joined they may have changed a bit. Didn't Sto team write fan fiction of Vorta and changling fighting together.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Nuno waited until the last of his crew departed the ship. He watched the Jem’Hadar disappear into the base, followed by Adiss, his Vorta first officer.
He emerged with the goal of taking a small company of Vorta and Jem’Hadar on an exploration mission deep within the Gamma Quadrant.
A Vorta could lead Jem’Hadar well in many pursuits, but to explore, to seek the unknown and study it – that would require vision. A servitor could not lead such a mission. It required a will only possessed by one of the Founders.
Nuno had come to know the names of every Jem’Hadar soldier in his crew and had come to respect Adiss’ boldness and latent leadership skills. They had been through a lot together, and now they would embark on a well-earned rest.
Nuno turned to find a place to regenerate for a moment before preparing to disembark once again. He would send his crew off to die on the front, but after five years of living among them, he wouldn’t send them off into certain death alone."
Now not all of it supports Vorta running into battle like a Rambo, but it still supports that they are cable of fighting/piloting/commanding if the need arises. It also supports that Founders too can fight and command alongside the Jem’Hadar. This Jem'Hadar only club blows hard....
Sure is down right disappointing to say the least. If the team writes a blog story about a crew of Vorta and Changling exploring and fighting the Hur'q, but you can't because they don't want to implement it because it would mean changing/adding to the tiny small Jem class specific missions that probably won't matter in the long run and be forgotten.
The Dominion isn't just Jem'habore.... [sigh] Well I can cross my fingers down the road it will be LTS. >_<
Or better yet they can give Vorta their own add-on only (no Jem'Habore allowed) and call it "Victory Through Obedience"
(poster isn't me, found it and thought it looked cool for Vorta promotion)
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
And yet, they register on human gender-detection senses as male.
In case you didn't know, despite all the species diversity in the game, 100% of its target audience are human.
I think we need to get more people to ask for a Vorta here or a poll. @ambassadorkael#6946 said on the Ten Forward Weekly that they may discuss adding Vorta at later date if there is big enough demand for it. So regardless if you don't think Vorta should be fighters because [insert reason] here is your chance to beg for one for the possibility of getting them put in-game after Victory Is Life has launched.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
But really, Jem'Hadars in canon sources are generally big goons with guns, that don't seem to grasp complex concepts or anything outside a warrior lifestyle.
Omet'iklan contradicts that statement.
Throughout some of the episode, they keep him ignorant of the fact there are rebel Jem'Hadar, then in private conference, he reveals that he's not as foolish as his Vorta Commander has assumed he is, he knows all about the truth of the mission and insults the Vorta for not respecting or knowing how smart he really is.
Virak'kara also becomes less rigid once he spends some time with Dax, as she treats him more like a person then a disposable soldier.
And then there was Remata'klan who knew he was being sent into an ambush because of the poor tactical plan he was ordered to follow.
So I think the Jem'Hadar are more then just simple soldiers, after all, troops that can't think and adapt to changing circumstances won't survive long in direct combat.
I think the Vorta are technically a different kind of species from the Jem'Hadar, in that they were an existing lifeform before the Founders modified them and the Jem'Hadar were created as an all new species.
Which would explain why the Vorta have dual genders and the Jem'Hadar do not, because the Vorta species had females before they were modified.
Jem'Hadar offspring do identify as male to medical scans though, so I had assumed they were indeed male. Virak'kara is definitely aware of the gender difference when he clarifies there are no females of his species, indicating he is very much aware he is male.
I think a Vorta who was intended to enter combat would either need genetic modification to give them better vision or use a tactical visor to compensate for that specific weakness.
I'm not opposed to the idea of playable Vorta, honestly, I'm quite surprised they were not offered, I expected them to be an option.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Probably because they wanted to focus on one immersive story that is tailored to Jem'Hadar only. Adding Vorta would mean they would have to adjust the starting episode story for them or add new episode arc for them (doubling the work). Honestly I wouldn't care if it made sense so long as you had wider selection than just Jem'Hadar. Makes the mini-faction feel incomplete and less of a Dominion without playing both of them. The blog story rubs salt in the already existing wound and is reminder of what you can't play. I think a lot of people expected to finally make a Vorta captain/commander. To finally have the Dominion and not being able to play your favourite character must really suck hard and the only other option posters and Devs give you is by suggesting you play 1-60 alien and grind all over again and you don't even belong to the Dominion faction...
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Heh, The first Vorta seen on screen was quite capable in a fight. She even demonstrated she didn't need a gun to win in a firefight.
You mean the one with telekinesis that didn't do much damage and was only able to escape because the Dominion allowed her to? A staged fight doesn't really make for a good demonstration...
No. But she made one hell of a operative agent. By the way her name was Eris. Anyways we all know that the Founders genetically enhanced the Vorta as reward for saving one of them. So why is it so unbelievable for them to be enhanced by Odo? To make them more than they are? The story right now I think has Odo make better Jem'Hadar not controlled by the White and more independent. Is it that hard to believe he do the same for the poor Vorta? Or do people here don't want them added because their original TV head canon says no?
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Jem'Hadar doctors & scientists make no sense, and I get what they mean about Vorta wouldn't fight on the ground and stuff so split the careers to species.
Tactical - Jem'Hadar (that's what they were born for)
Science - Vorta (Vorta doctors and scientists were a common thing)
Engineer - Jem'Hadar (I guess a Jem'Hadar field engineer is more believable than a Vorta one)
Just a suggestion but it feels wrong to leave them out, or maybe give us Vorta Boffs? I'm sure in Odo's new order it could be possible for a Jem'Hadar to be promoted above a Vorta.. I dunno I'm just shooting out ideas lol
"As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives.
This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Victory is Life!"
I don't think people want forced professions either. Everyone is taking this way too seriously. Jem'Hadar are not scientists yet you can play as one because that is the game... Just as you don't need a explanation to have Vorta carrying a polaron rifle or fighting on ground combat. But if you did I gave you one. In case people didn't read it: Odo enhanced the new Vorta with better eyesight, taste, and the ability to carry a music tune and appreciation for art. There you go. Call them the "Vorta Operative" and put them along with the completely newly made up "Jem'Hadar Vanguard". Or we can all fuss over the semantics and not bother because of the "Vorta don't fight! crowd. Then rest can argue that Jem'Hadar don't do science! And get science class removed. II personally would want as much added as possible, not less.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
No. But she made one hell of a operative agent. By the way her name was Eris. Anyways we all know that the Founders genetically enhanced the Vorta as reward for saving one of them. So why is it so unbelievable for them to be enhanced by Odo? To make them more than they are? The story right now I think has Odo make better Jem'Hadar not controlled by the White and more independent. Is it that hard to believe he do the same for the poor Vorta? Or do people here don't want them added because their original TV head canon says no?
It is this simple. They are being men.
Women who play this game should be able to create strong female captains in every faction. And LOOK LIKE WOMEN. And be just as capable as any other, if they so choose.
In this case, the these are the typical male excuses to keep the image of a woman in authority OUT of their new faction. And for what? Make it easier on their video game development and story line???
Vortas are stupid, Vortas are blind, Vortas are unable to adapt, Vortas are not evolved, because, gosh, who knows what Odo was thinking? That they must be useless?? Vortas can't do anything right....we don't need them any more...Odo thinks so.
Jem'hadar MALES CAN adapt...let's ALL just use THAT. Because who needs to develop anything beyond this? And WHAT???? Because Jem'hadar women look exactly like Jem'hadar MALES? Hello??? You had to pull THAT one up and use it??? Really?
Why is there no FEMALE Jem'Hadar avatar models??? Weren't they even made???
Well, here is a solution: a race in the Dominion with masculine and feminine features that could be used for the game. AND you already HAVE humanoid female models and Vorta parts in the Tailor option we can use. ON ALIEN GENS.
"Victory is Life"....is some story THEY MADE UP THEMSELVES. NOT CANON. Is it so rigid a story they can not find a way to get women captains in the Faction, in some way?
If you have to add Vortas in order to have the Female avatar in the Dominion Faction. Do it.
Or you have to make a FEMALE Jem'Hadar model with a bust size slider, and make up options. Do it.
DO SOMETHING.
Besides whine. "It doesn't fit in with the story".....because, you know what?? That perception PROBLEM is all over every mission in STO if you choose a different race.
Guess what? I want to chose a different race...I can decide how to make your story fit for me.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
No. But she made one hell of a operative agent. By the way her name was Eris. Anyways we all know that the Founders genetically enhanced the Vorta as reward for saving one of them. So why is it so unbelievable for them to be enhanced by Odo? To make them more than they are? The story right now I think has Odo make better Jem'Hadar not controlled by the White and more independent. Is it that hard to believe he do the same for the poor Vorta? Or do people here don't want them added because their original TV head canon says no?
It is this simple. They are being men.
Women who play this game should be able to create strong female captains in every faction. And LOOK LIKE WOMEN. And be just as capable as any other, if they so choose.
In this case, the these are the typical male excuses to keep the image of a woman in authority OUT of their new faction. And for what? Make it easier on their video game development and story line???
Vortas are stupid, Vortas are blind, Vortas are unable to adapt, Vortas are not evolved, because, gosh, who knows what Odo was thinking? That they must be useless?? Vortas can't do anything right....we don't need them any more...Odo thinks so.
Jem'hadar MALES CAN adapt...let's ALL just use THAT. Because who needs to develop anything beyond this? And WHAT???? Because Jem'hadar women look exactly like Jem'hadar MALES? Hello??? You had to pull THAT one up and use it??? Really?
Why is there no FEMALE Jem'Hadar avatar models??? Weren't they even made???
Well, here is a solution: a race in the Dominion with masculine and feminine features that could be used for the game. AND you already HAVE humanoid female models and Vorta parts in the Tailor option we can use. ON ALIEN GENS.
"Victory is Life"....is some story THEY MADE UP THEMSELVES. NOT CANON. Is it so rigid a story they can not find a way to get women captains in the Faction, in some way?
If you have to add Vortas in order to have the Female avatar in the Dominion Faction. Do it.
Or you have to make a FEMALE Jem'Hadar model with a bust size slider, and make up options. Do it.
DO SOMETHING.
Besides whine. "It doesn't fit in with the story".....because, you know what?? That perception PROBLEM is all over every mission in STO if you choose a different race.
Guess what? I want to chose a different race...I can decide how to make your story fit for me.
Here, here!
Yeah I didn't buy much into the whole "guys we didn't want to do Vorta because it didn't make sense story wise" speech. If that was completely true why do we even have alien as option for Klingons? Why do we have all these conquered subject races speaking about honour as if they were Klingon? No.
I'd understand more if they said we want to add them in with their own unique episodes separate from the Jem'Hadar. But I am not seeing that at all. I respect the devs, but this just seems like a really lazy afterthought.
Post edited by terranempire#7881 on
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Of course, but the thing is, making additional Deltards just means characters who can't claim the rewards unlocked by your others immediately. Best to just create the additional pylons as regular so you can hike them to the temporal guy and claim your loot outright at level 20, no song and dance!
And what reward would I need immediately, Armada Leader? Can I find 50,000 Fleet Dilithium token by Level 30? And doing it by playing KDF specific missions???
You know, the enjoyable stuff? Stuff I LIKE doing over and over and over.
Stuff that includes kicking the Ferengi, ghost hunting in the bowels of Drozana, a Bat'leth Tournament on Forcas 3 and killing off Cowardice, Treachery, Dishonor and the Fek'Ihri? All I want for is to pop Franklin Drake's nose on Rura Penthe...then, it would be perfect.
I have already retired 3 of the throw away Delta recruits....after dumping DOFFs, Dilithium, and Fleet Marks into the various Fleet projects. Including the Dilithium for a couple of the vanity projects on the Colony Holding. As you must know by now, my Fleet Leader likes those vanity projects.
And ALL while waiting for new content to drop for Victory is Life.
Do you really consider this a waste of my resources and my time?
What are you doing?? AFKing Mirror Invasion?
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Well for the record I'd like to see the option for a Vorta Captain and bridge officers in the new Dominion faction. If I recall they usually had leadership positions anyway. Is it so hard to say "Odo created combat-ready Vorta alongside his Jemmy Vanguards."
Well for the record I'd like to see the option for a Vorta Captain and bridge officers in the new Dominion faction. If I recall they usually had leadership positions anyway. Is it so hard to say "Odo created combat-ready Vorta alongside his Jemmy Vanguards."
Exactly! It took two pages to get that across! I thought everyone was stuck in the "No, Vorta don't fight!" time loop. I am so relieved to have found you two.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I agree with adding playable Vorta *and also* Changelings. I had an idea as to how it could work. I wrote a comment about it on this thread, posted it, found a spelling error, edited it, and had the message disappear.
They are bred in "birthing chambers" (and for that reason, their species has no females) and their growth cycle is such that they reach maturity and are ready to fight within three days;
They do not sleep, eat, or engage in any kind of recreational activity; and
Because of the frequency with which they are deployed in battle, their lifespans are extremely short; no Jem'Hadar has ever reached the age of thirty, and those that reach age twenty are considered "Honored Elders"; Virak'kara himself is only eight, and appears stunned when Dax casually mentions that she's over three hundred.
All they do is fight. They don't have sexual relations. No relaxing. And they die. They must get their ration of Ketracel White every week.
And yet, through the powers of storytelling....
The Devs can transform Jem'hadar into a stable, long lived, guy you want to party with on Risa. But Vortas are written off as "useless".
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Devs, seriously, just make it easy on yourselves and get cracking on the darned Vorta. You don't even need any new art assets for them since the ears are already in alien gen. You could even put them in the Z-store like the Vanguard Jemmies and make back your investment.
They are bred in "birthing chambers" (and for that reason, their species has no females) and their growth cycle is such that they reach maturity and are ready to fight within three days;
They do not sleep, eat, or engage in any kind of recreational activity; and
Because of the frequency with which they are deployed in battle, their lifespans are extremely short; no Jem'Hadar has ever reached the age of thirty, and those that reach age twenty are considered "Honored Elders"; Virak'kara himself is only eight, and appears stunned when Dax casually mentions that she's over three hundred.
All they do is fight. They don't have sexual relations. No relaxing. And they die. They must get their ration of Ketracel White every week.
And yet, through the powers of storytelling....
The Devs can transform Jem'hadar into a stable, long lived, guy you want to party with on Risa. But Vortas are written off as "useless".
Thankfully, the Vorta haven't been written off, and I believe the Devs mentioned in today's stream that they, along with Changelings (sadly), are on the "Things we want to do" list.
I personally wouldn't mind Vorta, as long as they come with the appropriate ups and downs of being a Vorta.
For ground, they could have (slight) penalties to perception and weapon accuracy, but have super high toxin/radiation resistance (possibly even Immunity) and optional Telepathy/Telekinesis.
For space, they could get a space-based "Teamwork" trait of sorts (Could increase damage/accuracy for self and nearby allies), and a slight cooldown reduction for Bridge Officer powers. Also as a little passive side bonus, they could gain maybe 5% increased Diplomacy XP from duty officer missions and the like.
The Vorta aren't really fighters, but when they do take to the field, it's usually when they're commanding a starship in space combat. Hence, while the Jem'Hadar have traits that make them stronger in ground combat, the Vorta would have stuff that gives them an edge in space combat.
Post edited by wbaker256#3172 on
"[GARBLED ELECTRONIC NOISES]"
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
Comments
> Fleet Admirals are at least actually capable of fighting, Vorta are literally built in a way that makes them mostly useless at it.
Well said. Vorta are frail, timid and half-blind politicians, scientists and, at most, armchair generals whose only reliable trait in frontline combat is their enhanced hearing. The Dominion isn't going to waste time adapting them for frontline combat when the Jem'Hadar can, and always will, perform better in the field.
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
The Jem'hadar are sexless, and also the devs on the livestream said if you wanna play as a female jemmy you can, just because it looks male doesnt mean that its not female, the character is what you make it, and i know that it doesnt make it right not be able to make and actual female, and i do agree they should have made it different with them being odo's personal jemmys that he would be able to make female jemmys, but we have to go with what the devs create wether we agree or not!
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> where2r1 wrote: »
>
> I am a woman. Because I see my character's avatars as an extension of me....I do not prefer to make males.
>
> So, here we are....weeks/days away from new faction in STO where I can't even make a female character. Thanks, Devs, for not even bothering to find a way to include women in your new FACTION.
>
> Everyone gets to focus on playing a Jem'hadar, the elite soldier of the Dominion...all men. Because there are no Vortas "tough" enough to compete in the story they have planned out.
>
> So, these knuckle headed male Jem'Hadar can evolve to be without Vortas being the "go betweens" because they got smarter and off the drugs. OR Odo bred them to be better "peoples"....except there are no women, still? But the Vortas stayed stagnant?? Really?
>
> HINT: They made this all up.
> It could have easily been fixed before it got past the white board.
> You should have run this by a few "sensitivity readers".
>
>
>
>
>
> The Jem'hadar are sexless, and also the devs on the livestream said if you wanna play as a female jemmy you can, just because it looks male doesnt mean that its not female, the character is what you make it, and i know that it doesnt make it right not be able to make and actual female, and i do agree they should have made it different with them being odo's personal jemmys that he would be able to make female jemmys, but we have to go with what the devs create wether we agree or not!
Well I ain't. If that means playing whatever grind promotion (AOY and Delta Recruit) then deleting and ignoring them for good. After all we can use their ships. Still think it waste of a faction.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> So you're telling me Odo spent time making the Jem better people and enhance them but didn't bother with the Vorta? Come on that isn't believable. Vorta look like they can be adapted at most as field agents and cable field officers.
Because the Vorta don't need to be improved in that regard. They perform their duties as Diplomats and Scientists just fine. If anything, they've probably been enhanced to perform better in those particular fields, because that's what they were made to do.
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
Sounds nice on paper, but it'd probably be a nightmare for the Devs to code right. Personally though, I'll be happy to play my Jem'Hadar 100% of the time.
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
Sounds about right. It's a nice little way of keeping them both in line.
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Nuno waited until the last of his crew departed the ship. He watched the Jem’Hadar disappear into the base, followed by Adiss, his Vorta first officer.
He emerged with the goal of taking a small company of Vorta and Jem’Hadar on an exploration mission deep within the Gamma Quadrant.
A Vorta could lead Jem’Hadar well in many pursuits, but to explore, to seek the unknown and study it – that would require vision. A servitor could not lead such a mission. It required a will only possessed by one of the Founders.
Nuno had come to know the names of every Jem’Hadar soldier in his crew and had come to respect Adiss’ boldness and latent leadership skills. They had been through a lot together, and now they would embark on a well-earned rest.
Nuno turned to find a place to regenerate for a moment before preparing to disembark once again. He would send his crew off to die on the front, but after five years of living among them, he wouldn’t send them off into certain death alone."
Now not all of it supports Vorta running into battle like a Rambo, but it still supports that they are cable of fighting/piloting/commanding if the need arises. It also supports that Founders too can fight and command alongside the Jem’Hadar. This Jem'Hadar only club blows hard....
Sure is down right disappointing to say the least. If the team writes a blog story about a crew of Vorta and Changling exploring and fighting the Hur'q, but you can't because they don't want to implement it because it would mean changing/adding to the tiny small Jem class specific missions that probably won't matter in the long run and be forgotten.
The Dominion isn't just Jem'habore.... [sigh] Well I can cross my fingers down the road it will be LTS. >_<
Or better yet they can give Vorta their own add-on only (no Jem'Habore allowed) and call it "Victory Through Obedience"
(poster isn't me, found it and thought it looked cool for Vorta promotion)
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I think we need to get more people to ask for a Vorta here or a poll. @ambassadorkael#6946 said on the Ten Forward Weekly that they may discuss adding Vorta at later date if there is big enough demand for it. So regardless if you don't think Vorta should be fighters because [insert reason] here is your chance to beg for one for the possibility of getting them put in-game after Victory Is Life has launched.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Omet'iklan contradicts that statement.
Throughout some of the episode, they keep him ignorant of the fact there are rebel Jem'Hadar, then in private conference, he reveals that he's not as foolish as his Vorta Commander has assumed he is, he knows all about the truth of the mission and insults the Vorta for not respecting or knowing how smart he really is.
Virak'kara also becomes less rigid once he spends some time with Dax, as she treats him more like a person then a disposable soldier.
And then there was Remata'klan who knew he was being sent into an ambush because of the poor tactical plan he was ordered to follow.
So I think the Jem'Hadar are more then just simple soldiers, after all, troops that can't think and adapt to changing circumstances won't survive long in direct combat.
I think the Vorta are technically a different kind of species from the Jem'Hadar, in that they were an existing lifeform before the Founders modified them and the Jem'Hadar were created as an all new species.
Which would explain why the Vorta have dual genders and the Jem'Hadar do not, because the Vorta species had females before they were modified.
Jem'Hadar offspring do identify as male to medical scans though, so I had assumed they were indeed male. Virak'kara is definitely aware of the gender difference when he clarifies there are no females of his species, indicating he is very much aware he is male.
I think a Vorta who was intended to enter combat would either need genetic modification to give them better vision or use a tactical visor to compensate for that specific weakness.
I'm not opposed to the idea of playable Vorta, honestly, I'm quite surprised they were not offered, I expected them to be an option.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
My character Tsin'xing
You mean the one with telekinesis that didn't do much damage and was only able to escape because the Dominion allowed her to? A staged fight doesn't really make for a good demonstration...
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Tactical - Jem'Hadar (that's what they were born for)
Science - Vorta (Vorta doctors and scientists were a common thing)
Engineer - Jem'Hadar (I guess a Jem'Hadar field engineer is more believable than a Vorta one)
Just a suggestion but it feels wrong to leave them out, or maybe give us Vorta Boffs? I'm sure in Odo's new order it could be possible for a Jem'Hadar to be promoted above a Vorta.. I dunno I'm just shooting out ideas lol
This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Victory is Life!"
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It is this simple. They are being men.
Women who play this game should be able to create strong female captains in every faction. And LOOK LIKE WOMEN. And be just as capable as any other, if they so choose.
In this case, the these are the typical male excuses to keep the image of a woman in authority OUT of their new faction. And for what? Make it easier on their video game development and story line???
Vortas are stupid, Vortas are blind, Vortas are unable to adapt, Vortas are not evolved, because, gosh, who knows what Odo was thinking? That they must be useless?? Vortas can't do anything right....we don't need them any more...Odo thinks so.
Jem'hadar MALES CAN adapt...let's ALL just use THAT. Because who needs to develop anything beyond this? And WHAT???? Because Jem'hadar women look exactly like Jem'hadar MALES? Hello??? You had to pull THAT one up and use it??? Really?
Why is there no FEMALE Jem'Hadar avatar models??? Weren't they even made???
Well, here is a solution: a race in the Dominion with masculine and feminine features that could be used for the game. AND you already HAVE humanoid female models and Vorta parts in the Tailor option we can use. ON ALIEN GENS.
"Victory is Life"....is some story THEY MADE UP THEMSELVES. NOT CANON. Is it so rigid a story they can not find a way to get women captains in the Faction, in some way?
If you have to add Vortas in order to have the Female avatar in the Dominion Faction. Do it.
Or you have to make a FEMALE Jem'Hadar model with a bust size slider, and make up options. Do it.
DO SOMETHING.
Besides whine. "It doesn't fit in with the story".....because, you know what?? That perception PROBLEM is all over every mission in STO if you choose a different race.
Guess what? I want to chose a different race...I can decide how to make your story fit for me.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Here, here!
Yeah I didn't buy much into the whole "guys we didn't want to do Vorta because it didn't make sense story wise" speech. If that was completely true why do we even have alien as option for Klingons? Why do we have all these conquered subject races speaking about honour as if they were Klingon? No.
I'd understand more if they said we want to add them in with their own unique episodes separate from the Jem'Hadar. But I am not seeing that at all. I respect the devs, but this just seems like a really lazy afterthought.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
And what reward would I need immediately, Armada Leader? Can I find 50,000 Fleet Dilithium token by Level 30? And doing it by playing KDF specific missions???
You know, the enjoyable stuff? Stuff I LIKE doing over and over and over.
Stuff that includes kicking the Ferengi, ghost hunting in the bowels of Drozana, a Bat'leth Tournament on Forcas 3 and killing off Cowardice, Treachery, Dishonor and the Fek'Ihri? All I want for is to pop Franklin Drake's nose on Rura Penthe...then, it would be perfect.
I have already retired 3 of the throw away Delta recruits....after dumping DOFFs, Dilithium, and Fleet Marks into the various Fleet projects. Including the Dilithium for a couple of the vanity projects on the Colony Holding. As you must know by now, my Fleet Leader likes those vanity projects.
And ALL while waiting for new content to drop for Victory is Life.
Do you really consider this a waste of my resources and my time?
What are you doing?? AFKing Mirror Invasion?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Exactly! It took two pages to get that across! I thought everyone was stuck in the "No, Vorta don't fight!" time loop. I am so relieved to have found you two.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
So, I just made it its own thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1240443/idea-for-how-to-add-vorta-changelings-to-a-dominion-faction
Did they forget about this on Jem'hadar???
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/To_the_Death_(episode)
All they do is fight. They don't have sexual relations. No relaxing. And they die. They must get their ration of Ketracel White every week.
And yet, through the powers of storytelling....
The Devs can transform Jem'hadar into a stable, long lived, guy you want to party with on Risa. But Vortas are written off as "useless".
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Thankfully, the Vorta haven't been written off, and I believe the Devs mentioned in today's stream that they, along with Changelings (sadly), are on the "Things we want to do" list.
I personally wouldn't mind Vorta, as long as they come with the appropriate ups and downs of being a Vorta.
For ground, they could have (slight) penalties to perception and weapon accuracy, but have super high toxin/radiation resistance (possibly even Immunity) and optional Telepathy/Telekinesis.
For space, they could get a space-based "Teamwork" trait of sorts (Could increase damage/accuracy for self and nearby allies), and a slight cooldown reduction for Bridge Officer powers. Also as a little passive side bonus, they could gain maybe 5% increased Diplomacy XP from duty officer missions and the like.
The Vorta aren't really fighters, but when they do take to the field, it's usually when they're commanding a starship in space combat. Hence, while the Jem'Hadar have traits that make them stronger in ground combat, the Vorta would have stuff that gives them an edge in space combat.
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan