Is it really even pay to win when's there's no real PVP anymore? I mean the overwhelming majority of the player base only fights AI in PvE. Also as has been stated earlier its not like the Vanguard Jemmies are going to be game breaking and have like +100% crit chance and +500% crit severity with +1000% percent accuracy. It'll be relatively minor stuff. Everyone is here making mountains of mole hills.
I love ot when people go off on these rants and get everything wrong like this, such pure comedy.
*Snaps fingers*
Focus, there is a feedback topic here and that's definitely not helped by relishing in the perceived inadequacies in other people's nostalgia (in general making points that relate strictly to other users isn't productive.)
Some of what's on the table, based on available information:
Details of implementation (could it be better?)
Recommendations for users (should I buy?)
Personal reactions (should you buy?)
Story speculation (could this factor into the plot of ViL?)
Content speculation (where else might they go?)
Character planning and general excitement
We can't say anything definitely but if you have thoughts specific to the topic then by all means share them.
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...I would be really disappointed if this became a future trend in this game, of asking money for better versions of free things....
You're right. Why would any business want to try and make money selling something? It's totally inconceivable!
There was a time when people made enjoyable games and players paid money for said games as well as time online for said games. Now it's devolved in to what we have today in STO. A game loaded with pay for Barbie and pay for win options but content that's on shaky ground where leveling missions and battle zones are like run down buildings in need of repair even as a shiny new ship/race comes out the door while the resources are apparently running on fumes for upkeep.
Cash shop cosmetics are fine, what annoys me is when single player games make you pay for things that would have instead been included as hidden cheat codes back in the day.
wow... it looks like the forums just ate an entire comment...
Basically, i'd stated that the main issue i'm having, is more along the lines of having paid but better versions of existing species vs paid new species. It's one thing to pay for new stuff but it's an entirely other thing to try and pay for better versions of existing things. It's not like the iphones, here. Maybe, if they had a way to respecies, or upgrade your current species to the upgraded version for free, i wouldn't have as much of an issue. If you have two equally matched people but one of them has a paid advantage, that is still a paid advantage. Transactions, as such, are a terrible way to nickle and dime your player base. It's the kind of Ferengi business model that alienates the fans, goes against the IP (except the Ferengi), and thrives only due to complacency and whales. A company wanting to make a profit is one thing but when it's at the expense of it's player base, in such a manner, is something which keeps Cryptic at it's less than positive public perception. It seems like a goo place to point out how fast they were to point out that this wouldn't mean t7 ships, though, considering how outspoken people were about how that was being handled. I'm fine paying for something and maybe paying for upgrades like costumes and customizations but paying for better states and more powerful versions of the same thing just seems like the wrong direction for a Star Trek based game.
"Things worth paying for" is entirely subjective based on the individual. You may not agree with paying for better/improved versions of free items. Others will and have no problem forking over the money. This is no different than the tired old arguments over T5, T5-U and T6 ships.
More like T5 to T6, T5-u is an upgrade that can be applied after the fact (analogous here to simply buying new traits). Guess what each T6 revamp of a T5 ship also includes? New customization unlocks. Guess what we're asking for here? More of the same.
Apply logic more consistently.
If you really don't have a specific opinion here except that people asking for improvements to content packs should just shut up (if not in tone than in effect) because said content is still, technically, available for sale (and someone's going to buy it)...is it really worth your time to comment? If you're not interested in the specific question of and details surrounding Vanguard Jem'Hadar versus standard Jem'Hadar, you're not interested.
wow... it looks like the forums just ate an entire comment...
.
Yeah, it does that when you edit. What I do if I need to go back to something is crtl+A, crtl+C to be sure I can go back and rebuild if necessary. Posting an identical post again trips an automatic filter, so if you need to repost an eaten comment you'll need to make some structural/phrasing changes for it to pass through.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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"Things worth paying for" is entirely subjective based on the individual. You may not agree with paying for better/improved versions of free items. Others will and have no problem forking over the money. This is no different than the tired old arguments over T5, T5-U and T6 ships.
Therein lies the beauty of the micro-transaction system. you don't NEED to buy everything that can be bought. If you don't want to buy a species unlock you can use a free option.
dont know what this is an issue... the whole game is based on this. from free ships to zstore to lock boxes... you dont need to buy the "better" version. the traits wont make you a god in game.
part of me thinks to wait on the big pack till a good sale... min 30% off to 50% off for cash before I buy this.
once this goes live you can probably buy with zen, if you've been farming dil to zen... it's basically "free". well if you dont consider your time as money.
dont know what this is an issue... the whole game is based on this. from free ships to zstore to lock boxes... you dont need to buy the "better" version. the traits wont make you a god in game.
part of me thinks to wait on the big pack till a good sale... min 30% off to 50% off for cash before I buy this.
once this goes live you can probably buy with zen, if you've been farming dil to zen... it's basically "free". well if you dont consider your time as money.
I'm heavily considering waiting too for those reasons & a couple of others.
It's true, the whole game is set-up like this, & not only STO, it's not really a pay-to-win but a pay-to-have-better.
If a player buys nothing at all I'm sure lots of fun will still be had by this expansion, & yes possibly even more fun, or easier fun, with buying Store items in any capacity.
I'm holding-off regardless because I want to learn more about the package & the expansion before I decide then I'll number crunch to see if I think it's worth it.
Haven't the other Starter Packs included a starter ship?
dont know what this is an issue... the whole game is based on this. from free ships to zstore to lock boxes... you dont need to buy the "better" version. the traits wont make you a god in game.
Exactly, that's what I was saying before.
This is right in line with the way the entire game has worked for years, I don't see why this should be a surprise to anyone. If anything, I commend the fact that they offer a free option to those that don't want to pay to play a Jem'Hadar. They really didn't have to include the free option and they did so knowing that doing so would surely take away at least a small amount from their sales.
The Paid Jem'Hadar are no different from ships or anything else. There are free versions that are plenty good enough for any game content, and there are paid versions with extra 'bells and whistles.' It's up to the individual to decide rather or not the features provided are worth the price being asked. If not, then take the free road.. all good.
The Paid Jem'Hadar are no different from ships or anything else. There are free versions that are plenty good enough for any game content, and there are paid versions with extra 'bells and whistles.' It's up to the individual to decide rather or not the features provided are worth the price being asked. If not, then take the free road.. all good.
Except that unlike a T6 ship there's no confirmed additional customization options. Those typically justify having the premium option, in addition to the stat perks. That's true for all species but one, and that's only from one faction's point of view. The point here is very specifically that Vanguard Jem'Hadar seem to have only one bell, adding whistles would be appreciated (as they've been added to Cardassians.)
Tip for discussion (as this seems to be coming up a lot now): a single simple parallel doesn't invalidate a contradiction. Both can exist simultaneously. Ie. there can be precedent for premium species with stat advantages, but there can also be precedent for those species adding more than simply that.
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Did no one else actually look at the picture of the Jem'hadar Vanguard?
It looks it has something growing on its forehead and nose.
The Vanguard are clearly not just specially trained, they are a new species of Jem'hadar, perhaps Jem'hadar crossed with Hur'q or Fekl'ri.
The Vanguard are to Warrior Jem'hadar (if that is a single species of Jem'hadar or more), what Ferasans are to Caitians, but on the same side.
Also note the biggest difference between Vanguard and other Jem'hadar, no tube for the white, they aren't junkies!
I think regular Jem'hadar might have some advantages Vanguard don't have like being about take advantage of the white and being able to Shroud (hypothetically).
We might be dealing with more a different game play experience then play to win.
Also note Jem'hadar Ships vs. Jem'hadar Vanguard Ships, the Vanguard have their own racial ships separate from regular Jem'hadar ships, which suggests that A) the Vanguard ships might have some kind of trait that regular Jem'hadar ships might not have, there will likely also have regular none lockbox and none Vanguard ships for the Jem'hadar.
It also begs the question, will Van'hadar Boffs be an option?
PS I knew that this new Faction would get its own Flagship and I was right, its Flagship class (its Odyssey, Bort, Scimitar type class) is the Vanguard Jem'hadar Dreadnaught Cruiser, which will likely have a hangar bay.
Did no one else actually look at the picture of the Jem'hadar Vanguard?
It looks it has something growing on its forehead and nose.
I asked about that one, no reply. We know that's a new option but we don't know if that's exclusive to Vanguards or simply part of the new customization set. New options have been confirmed for Jem'Hadar, but Cryptic has not commented on Vanguards (which I took as a "well, maybe but can't confirm anything at this point," given some history. Hence feedback saying "PLEASE MAKE THAT A YES!")
The Vanguard are clearly not just specially trained, they are a new species of Jem'hadar, perhaps Jem'hadar crossed with Hur'q or Fekl'ri.
Blog:
" Their enhanced combat training has made them incredibly effective at defeating their opponents through superior offensive capabilities on both ground and in space"
Any biological distinction they may have with other Jem'Hadar is literally not credited for their enhanced capabilities. Their training is, it's their key feature. Also, hybridization with other species is far fetched at this point, as any kind of biological modification has not, in fact, been specifically referenced (all we have is "designed" and that can also include just training regimens and post natal cultivation. Maybe there's genetic engineering too but so far that has not been confirmed.)
Also note the biggest difference between Vanguard and other Jem'hadar, no tube for the white, they aren't junkies!
Not unique to Vanguard, other Jem'Hadar in promotional material have also lacked white tubes. What exactly is going on here could be a major plot point for the expansion (or simply that Cryptic hasn't finished building the asset or forgot to hook it up on the models used for screenshots, but those are just the null hypotheses. ) Could be the Vanguard factor into it but it also could be a more generalized re-engineering program.
Also note Jem'hadar Ships vs. Jem'hadar Vanguard Ships, the Vanguard have their own racial ships separate from regular Jem'hadar ships, which suggests that A) the Vanguard ships might have some kind of trait that regular Jem'hadar ships might not have, there will likely also have regular none lockbox and none Vanguard ships for the Jem'hadar.
So the Crossfield class Vanguard science vessel is a new "racial" type of Jem'Hadar ship?
(This ship designation means more tac-focus and potentially more forward weapon slots than is typical for the class. Cryptic did say when discussing the Crossfield that more Vanguard vessels was something that they were exploring. )
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During introduction of LoR, the Remans where a c-store race, it was unlocked once you finished the Romulan reputation, and I'm pretty sure it will be the same case here... the point is, you wanted to play Remans from the start? c-store purchase... or just wait for the unlock.
During introduction of LoR, the Remans where a c-store race, it was unlocked once you finished the Romulan reputation, and I'm pretty sure it will be the same case here... the point is, you wanted to play Remans from the start? c-store purchase... or just wait for the unlock.
That might apply to Cardassian though, Cryptic referenced them specifically when saying that the packs weren't the only way of unlocking them (more to be discussed in future.) Vanguard Jem'Hadar were left as is (which make sense, if there's a species award for progression then locking it to Jem'Hadar incentivizes not playing the major point of the expansion when it's first release, if you don't plan on buying. Tangent species are less complicated.)
PS. Romulan rep launched prior to LoR (hence why it didn't interfere with initial species choice, players didn't have to wait to unlock their Remans without the c-store), so if there is a parallel it won't be an exact one (ex. we get a completion reward but it's tied to the next progression system or 65 on a Jem'Hadar.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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I get the concern here, this is what makes FTP game monitization messy. If this were a more PVP focused game i would harbor more concern, since that's is a type of competition won by inches, but with this being a story driven mostly PVE game its just unfortunate. Honestly the most upsetting thing about monitization strategies in this game to me remains what it has been fore years:the continued presence of lockboxes. If they choose to do stuff like this while phasing out lockboxes (which would be smart in the current climate) I would call it a victory
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
If they choose to do stuff like this while phasing out lockboxes (which would be smart in the current climate) I would call it a victory
They can't phase out lockboxes because that is a steady stream of income. A C-Store account unlock is only a one time payment. Lockbox keys aren't.
In order to keep the game running, they need a steady income. STO actually did lockboxes right. Nothing in the Lockbox is required to play the game, and EVERYONE can get stuff from it one way or another.
As long as STO is F2P, we're gonna have lockboxes to help with funding the game.
EA's greed put stuff that is necessary to stay competative in the boxes. STO and TF2... don't. That's the big difference.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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That might apply to Cardassian though, Cryptic referenced them specifically when saying that the packs weren't the only way of unlocking them (more to be discussed in future.)
I took that to mean that they would be available as an individual purchase as well (like all other bundle items), not that there would be a free way to unlock them.
> @duncanidaho11 said: > gaevsman wrote: » > > During introduction of LoR, the Remans where a c-store race, it was unlocked once you finished the Romulan reputation, and I'm pretty sure it will be the same case here... the point is, you wanted to play Remans from the start? c-store purchase... or just wait for the unlock. > > > > > That might apply to Cardassian though, Cryptic referenced them specifically when saying that the packs weren't the only way of unlocking them (more to be discussed in future.) Vanguard Jem'Hadar were left as is (which make sense, if there's a species award for progression then locking it to Jem'Hadar incentivizes not playing the major point of the expansion when it's first release, if you don't plan on buying. Tangent species are less complicated.) > > PS. Romulan rep launched prior to LoR (hence why it didn't interfere with initial species choice, players didn't have to wait to unlock their Remans without the c-store), so if there is a parallel it won't be an exact one (ex. we get a completion reward but it's tied to the next progression system or 65 on a Jem'Hadar.)
Actually I think Cardassians species will be unlocked if you buy the Cardassian ships from the C-Store.
I think the Vorta will be unlocked by mastering the Dominion Reputation.
Personally I don't see what the hullabaloo is about. I don't personally need to know what the difference between the two are. I just don't care. It's 20.00 usd not 2,000.00. If 20.00 makes you p2w then cryptic is doing it wrong.
I looked at it. Saw the same things you all seen. Said to myself. Meh what the hell, i prolly won't even play with this thing. I only want the ship anyhow. And if i could use the trait on my alien captain, that would be awesome. But none of the other ones do that; so whatever.
I Paid it and moved on. If it works out, ok. If it doesn't, no big whoops. They don't really need to go into deep and minuet detail for 20.00. I buy lunches for more then that and I don't expect the barista to go into minuet pain staking detail to explain to me everything that's in my meal. I don't go to subway and ask them whats the difference between their product and a sub i can make at home. I expect there to be an inherent difference.
we really need to come down off our high just a little bit here people. A few people are sounding a bit entitled and spoiled with their masked passive aggressive diatribes from what I've been reading so far.
By common sense to be angry at a company for wanting to make money is just strange. A company does not run on dreams and hopes and whatever else you want it to do other the monetary gains. Electric companies and the likes do not accept the happiness of a handful of people as monetary value. Nor do workers accept that as a form of payment for services rendered. So lets agree at the least that the company has a right to make money in any way they can do it within the law and taste.
Now lets move on. You guys are making it seem like they are asking for a first born. Unless you live and breath STO I don't see how 20.00 is breaking the bank for anyone. If you like it, buy it, if you don't the don't. If you are straddling the fence then pay them and move on and see what happens. Talking about it until you feel comfortable with the transaction isn't going to happen specially if you are talking about it with the community that is just as clueless as you are. Because it's all speculation.
A lot of you make it seem as if a company is doing something evil and nefarious by trying to make money. I don't blame cryptic. And if 20.00 is their way of luring me to the dark side then sign me up.
If you are letting one thing hang you up on that impossible to claim 20.00 then ask yourself. If it was the t6 ship alone. is that worth 20.00? If it is, then buy it. problem solved we're all happy and now you can all return to your arguments over pve vs pvp space barbies and whatever else it is that keeps this place running on Cheetos and Mountain Dew.
That might apply to Cardassian though, Cryptic referenced them specifically when saying that the packs weren't the only way of unlocking them (more to be discussed in future.)
I took that to mean that they would be available as an individual purchase as well (like all other bundle items), not that there would be a free way to unlock them.
That was my initial read too, now I'll just go with a shrug and say it'll be anything other than an available-by-default species (we really don't have a lot to go on for this one.)
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
If that were true, lockbox ships would simply be cosmetic unlocks for existing ships, without unique stats, traits, or gear.
Lockbox stuff is NOT REQUIRED to play the game.
That's what I was pointing out.
There are people who can make a free stock ship with mk XII gear competative and fully capable of handling endgame content. Anything on top of that is just gravy. Besides... who uses the stock gear on a lockbox ship anyways? Literally the only thing worth keeping in most instances is the console as the rest of the gear is garbage to be replaced with gear you already own.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Comments
*Snaps fingers*
Focus, there is a feedback topic here and that's definitely not helped by relishing in the perceived inadequacies in other people's nostalgia (in general making points that relate strictly to other users isn't productive.)
Discussion point: Jem'Hadar (standard) versus Jem'Hadar (Vanguard). Linked below is the announcement post, if people need a refresher on the details we have.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10881114
Some of what's on the table, based on available information:
- Details of implementation (could it be better?)
- Recommendations for users (should I buy?)
- Personal reactions (should you buy?)
- Story speculation (could this factor into the plot of ViL?)
- Content speculation (where else might they go?)
- Character planning and general excitement
We can't say anything definitely but if you have thoughts specific to the topic then by all means share them.Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Cash shop cosmetics are fine, what annoys me is when single player games make you pay for things that would have instead been included as hidden cheat codes back in the day.
Basically, i'd stated that the main issue i'm having, is more along the lines of having paid but better versions of existing species vs paid new species. It's one thing to pay for new stuff but it's an entirely other thing to try and pay for better versions of existing things. It's not like the iphones, here. Maybe, if they had a way to respecies, or upgrade your current species to the upgraded version for free, i wouldn't have as much of an issue. If you have two equally matched people but one of them has a paid advantage, that is still a paid advantage. Transactions, as such, are a terrible way to nickle and dime your player base. It's the kind of Ferengi business model that alienates the fans, goes against the IP (except the Ferengi), and thrives only due to complacency and whales. A company wanting to make a profit is one thing but when it's at the expense of it's player base, in such a manner, is something which keeps Cryptic at it's less than positive public perception. It seems like a goo place to point out how fast they were to point out that this wouldn't mean t7 ships, though, considering how outspoken people were about how that was being handled. I'm fine paying for something and maybe paying for upgrades like costumes and customizations but paying for better states and more powerful versions of the same thing just seems like the wrong direction for a Star Trek based game.
More like T5 to T6, T5-u is an upgrade that can be applied after the fact (analogous here to simply buying new traits). Guess what each T6 revamp of a T5 ship also includes? New customization unlocks. Guess what we're asking for here? More of the same.
Apply logic more consistently.
If you really don't have a specific opinion here except that people asking for improvements to content packs should just shut up (if not in tone than in effect) because said content is still, technically, available for sale (and someone's going to buy it)...is it really worth your time to comment? If you're not interested in the specific question of and details surrounding Vanguard Jem'Hadar versus standard Jem'Hadar, you're not interested.
Yeah, it does that when you edit. What I do if I need to go back to something is crtl+A, crtl+C to be sure I can go back and rebuild if necessary. Posting an identical post again trips an automatic filter, so if you need to repost an eaten comment you'll need to make some structural/phrasing changes for it to pass through.
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My character Tsin'xing
part of me thinks to wait on the big pack till a good sale... min 30% off to 50% off for cash before I buy this.
once this goes live you can probably buy with zen, if you've been farming dil to zen... it's basically "free". well if you dont consider your time as money.
I'm heavily considering waiting too for those reasons & a couple of others.
It's true, the whole game is set-up like this, & not only STO, it's not really a pay-to-win but a pay-to-have-better.
If a player buys nothing at all I'm sure lots of fun will still be had by this expansion, & yes possibly even more fun, or easier fun, with buying Store items in any capacity.
I'm holding-off regardless because I want to learn more about the package & the expansion before I decide then I'll number crunch to see if I think it's worth it.
Haven't the other Starter Packs included a starter ship?
Exactly, that's what I was saying before.
This is right in line with the way the entire game has worked for years, I don't see why this should be a surprise to anyone. If anything, I commend the fact that they offer a free option to those that don't want to pay to play a Jem'Hadar. They really didn't have to include the free option and they did so knowing that doing so would surely take away at least a small amount from their sales.
The Paid Jem'Hadar are no different from ships or anything else. There are free versions that are plenty good enough for any game content, and there are paid versions with extra 'bells and whistles.' It's up to the individual to decide rather or not the features provided are worth the price being asked. If not, then take the free road.. all good.
Except that unlike a T6 ship there's no confirmed additional customization options. Those typically justify having the premium option, in addition to the stat perks. That's true for all species but one, and that's only from one faction's point of view. The point here is very specifically that Vanguard Jem'Hadar seem to have only one bell, adding whistles would be appreciated (as they've been added to Cardassians.)
Tip for discussion (as this seems to be coming up a lot now): a single simple parallel doesn't invalidate a contradiction. Both can exist simultaneously. Ie. there can be precedent for premium species with stat advantages, but there can also be precedent for those species adding more than simply that.
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It looks it has something growing on its forehead and nose.
The Vanguard are clearly not just specially trained, they are a new species of Jem'hadar, perhaps Jem'hadar crossed with Hur'q or Fekl'ri.
The Vanguard are to Warrior Jem'hadar (if that is a single species of Jem'hadar or more), what Ferasans are to Caitians, but on the same side.
Also note the biggest difference between Vanguard and other Jem'hadar, no tube for the white, they aren't junkies!
I think regular Jem'hadar might have some advantages Vanguard don't have like being about take advantage of the white and being able to Shroud (hypothetically).
We might be dealing with more a different game play experience then play to win.
Also note Jem'hadar Ships vs. Jem'hadar Vanguard Ships, the Vanguard have their own racial ships separate from regular Jem'hadar ships, which suggests that A) the Vanguard ships might have some kind of trait that regular Jem'hadar ships might not have,
It also begs the question, will Van'hadar Boffs be an option?
A load of starko is what that is.
I asked about that one, no reply. We know that's a new option but we don't know if that's exclusive to Vanguards or simply part of the new customization set. New options have been confirmed for Jem'Hadar, but Cryptic has not commented on Vanguards (which I took as a "well, maybe but can't confirm anything at this point," given some history. Hence feedback saying "PLEASE MAKE THAT A YES!")
Blog:
" Their enhanced combat training has made them incredibly effective at defeating their opponents through superior offensive capabilities on both ground and in space"
Any biological distinction they may have with other Jem'Hadar is literally not credited for their enhanced capabilities. Their training is, it's their key feature. Also, hybridization with other species is far fetched at this point, as any kind of biological modification has not, in fact, been specifically referenced (all we have is "designed" and that can also include just training regimens and post natal cultivation. Maybe there's genetic engineering too but so far that has not been confirmed.)
Not unique to Vanguard, other Jem'Hadar in promotional material have also lacked white tubes. What exactly is going on here could be a major plot point for the expansion (or simply that Cryptic hasn't finished building the asset or forgot to hook it up on the models used for screenshots, but those are just the null hypotheses.
So the Crossfield class Vanguard science vessel is a new "racial" type of Jem'Hadar ship?
(This ship designation means more tac-focus and potentially more forward weapon slots than is typical for the class. Cryptic did say when discussing the Crossfield that more Vanguard vessels was something that they were exploring.
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Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
That might apply to Cardassian though, Cryptic referenced them specifically when saying that the packs weren't the only way of unlocking them (more to be discussed in future.) Vanguard Jem'Hadar were left as is (which make sense, if there's a species award for progression then locking it to Jem'Hadar incentivizes not playing the major point of the expansion when it's first release, if you don't plan on buying. Tangent species are less complicated.)
PS. Romulan rep launched prior to LoR (hence why it didn't interfere with initial species choice, players didn't have to wait to unlock their Remans without the c-store), so if there is a parallel it won't be an exact one (ex. we get a completion reward but it's tied to the next progression system or 65 on a Jem'Hadar.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
They can't phase out lockboxes because that is a steady stream of income. A C-Store account unlock is only a one time payment. Lockbox keys aren't.
In order to keep the game running, they need a steady income. STO actually did lockboxes right. Nothing in the Lockbox is required to play the game, and EVERYONE can get stuff from it one way or another.
As long as STO is F2P, we're gonna have lockboxes to help with funding the game.
EA's greed put stuff that is necessary to stay competative in the boxes. STO and TF2... don't. That's the big difference.
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I took that to mean that they would be available as an individual purchase as well (like all other bundle items), not that there would be a free way to unlock them.
If that were true, lockbox ships would simply be cosmetic unlocks for existing ships, without unique stats, traits, or gear.
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> During introduction of LoR, the Remans where a c-store race, it was unlocked once you finished the Romulan reputation, and I'm pretty sure it will be the same case here... the point is, you wanted to play Remans from the start? c-store purchase... or just wait for the unlock.
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> That might apply to Cardassian though, Cryptic referenced them specifically when saying that the packs weren't the only way of unlocking them (more to be discussed in future.) Vanguard Jem'Hadar were left as is (which make sense, if there's a species award for progression then locking it to Jem'Hadar incentivizes not playing the major point of the expansion when it's first release, if you don't plan on buying. Tangent species are less complicated.)
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> PS. Romulan rep launched prior to LoR (hence why it didn't interfere with initial species choice, players didn't have to wait to unlock their Remans without the c-store), so if there is a parallel it won't be an exact one (ex. we get a completion reward but it's tied to the next progression system or 65 on a Jem'Hadar.)
Actually I think Cardassians species will be unlocked if you buy the Cardassian ships from the C-Store.
I think the Vorta will be unlocked by mastering the Dominion Reputation.
I looked at it. Saw the same things you all seen. Said to myself. Meh what the hell, i prolly won't even play with this thing. I only want the ship anyhow. And if i could use the trait on my alien captain, that would be awesome. But none of the other ones do that; so whatever.
I Paid it and moved on. If it works out, ok. If it doesn't, no big whoops. They don't really need to go into deep and minuet detail for 20.00. I buy lunches for more then that and I don't expect the barista to go into minuet pain staking detail to explain to me everything that's in my meal. I don't go to subway and ask them whats the difference between their product and a sub i can make at home. I expect there to be an inherent difference.
we really need to come down off our high just a little bit here people. A few people are sounding a bit entitled and spoiled with their masked passive aggressive diatribes from what I've been reading so far.
By common sense to be angry at a company for wanting to make money is just strange. A company does not run on dreams and hopes and whatever else you want it to do other the monetary gains. Electric companies and the likes do not accept the happiness of a handful of people as monetary value. Nor do workers accept that as a form of payment for services rendered. So lets agree at the least that the company has a right to make money in any way they can do it within the law and taste.
Now lets move on. You guys are making it seem like they are asking for a first born. Unless you live and breath STO I don't see how 20.00 is breaking the bank for anyone. If you like it, buy it, if you don't the don't. If you are straddling the fence then pay them and move on and see what happens. Talking about it until you feel comfortable with the transaction isn't going to happen specially if you are talking about it with the community that is just as clueless as you are. Because it's all speculation.
A lot of you make it seem as if a company is doing something evil and nefarious by trying to make money. I don't blame cryptic. And if 20.00 is their way of luring me to the dark side then sign me up.
If you are letting one thing hang you up on that impossible to claim 20.00 then ask yourself. If it was the t6 ship alone. is that worth 20.00? If it is, then buy it. problem solved we're all happy and now you can all return to your arguments over pve vs pvp space barbies and whatever else it is that keeps this place running on Cheetos and Mountain Dew.
That was my initial read too, now I'll just go with a shrug and say it'll be anything other than an available-by-default species (we really don't have a lot to go on for this one.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Lockbox stuff is NOT REQUIRED to play the game.
That's what I was pointing out.
There are people who can make a free stock ship with mk XII gear competative and fully capable of handling endgame content. Anything on top of that is just gravy. Besides... who uses the stock gear on a lockbox ship anyways? Literally the only thing worth keeping in most instances is the console as the rest of the gear is garbage to be replaced with gear you already own.
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