Although i see a certain appeal in watching those haters go off their nut about Discovery sailing through into awards and nominations, the fact they even got there means that Discovery is far from a failure.
on the other end, it almost certainly means that Discovery has a future ahead of it going into season 2 in 2019 and beyond. A few years ago i was lamenting why CBS wasn't furthering the Star Trek universe itself, and now i hope to see another 6 seasons of Discovery and hopefully even more trek after that. Hopefully CBS doesn't go overboard on its attempt to draw appeal from specific crowds and away from others or make stories that push away the community like Enterprise.
Agreed. The thing that worries me most about Discovery as that it's still at the point where it can make a really big mistake and kill the franchise for another decade.
The problem is that Discovery is not as good as other Science Fiction shows like The Orville, The Expanse, Altered Carbon, Colony, and a bunch of others that I haven't watched. The only thing that Discovery has going for it is brand name recognition. Of course, there is also the problem of fans waiting for over 10 years for a new Star Trek series will put immense pressure on Discovery. So Star Trek fans will be harsher on Discovery compared to other Science Fiction shows due to it being Star Trek and the long wait for it.
The problem is that Discovery is not as good as other Science Fiction shows like The Orville, The Expanse, Altered Carbon, Colony, and a bunch of others that I haven't watched. The only thing that Discovery has going for it is brand name recognition. Of course, there is also the problem of fans waiting for over 10 years for a new Star Trek series will put immense pressure on Discovery. So Star Trek fans will be harsher on Discovery compared to other Science Fiction shows due to it being Star Trek and the long wait for it.
There is this. I think Expanse would rightly deserve an award (I only got a couple episodes in and haven't gotten around to finishing it yet). Can't spoke to Altered Carbon, but from the trailers it does look very good - the premise is interesting.
The thing to be noted here is that three of those four shows you've mentioned are on Netflix, like DSC outside the US. It's possible Netflix will weigh in on CBS regarding DSC's direction if they see it being less popular compared to their other Sci-Fi properties. (There's also the chance they won't: since Netflix doesn't have to worry about time slots as a streaming service, as long as a show is profitable they don't have much incentive to cancel it.)
Altered Carbon and The Expanse are originally Science Fiction novels. Altered Carbon was first published in 2002 and The Expanse was first published in 2011. So they have the added benefit of being criticized about which scenes are good and which are bad. Also, it requires the novel to be somewhat popular in order to be turned into a TV series or movie.
There are quite a few dark scenes in Altered Carbon since a human body is essentially worthless if people can transfer their consciousness to another body when it is damaged or killed.
Altered Carbon and The Expanse are originally Science Fiction novels. Altered Carbon was first published in 2002 and The Expanse was first published in 2011. So they have the added benefit of being criticized about which scenes are good and which are bad. Also, it requires the novel to be somewhat popular in order to be turned into a TV series or movie.
There are quite a few dark scenes in Altered Carbon since a human body is essentially worthless if people can transfer their consciousness to another body when it is damaged or killed.
Good point. Novels also take much longer to write (I.e. The author takes their time) and are constantly being reviewed by the author and their contacts. So I suppose it isn't surprising that a TV show based on a novel series is of higher writing quality...
Altered Carbon and The Expanse are originally Science Fiction novels. Altered Carbon was first published in 2002 and The Expanse was first published in 2011. So they have the added benefit of being criticized about which scenes are good and which are bad. Also, it requires the novel to be somewhat popular in order to be turned into a TV series or movie.
There are quite a few dark scenes in Altered Carbon since a human body is essentially worthless if people can transfer their consciousness to another body when it is damaged or killed.
Good point. Novels also take much longer to write (I.e. The author takes their time) and are constantly being reviewed by the author and their contacts. So I suppose it isn't surprising that a TV show based on a novel series is of higher writing quality...
Of course, it all depends on the novel. After all, there is Twilight and Fifty Shades of Filth that were made into movies, but they are completely trash. Still doesn't disprove the fact that popular novels are sometimes made in to TV series or movies since a lot of people like to read and watch trash.
Altered Carbon and The Expanse are originally Science Fiction novels. Altered Carbon was first published in 2002 and The Expanse was first published in 2011. So they have the added benefit of being criticized about which scenes are good and which are bad. Also, it requires the novel to be somewhat popular in order to be turned into a TV series or movie.
There are quite a few dark scenes in Altered Carbon since a human body is essentially worthless if people can transfer their consciousness to another body when it is damaged or killed.
Good point. Novels also take much longer to write (I.e. The author takes their time) and are constantly being reviewed by the author and their contacts. So I suppose it isn't surprising that a TV show based on a novel series is of higher writing quality...
which doesn't explain the first three seasons of the BSG revamp, which was NOT based on novelization, or the four seasons of Babylon 5 before turner took it on a shark-jumping trip.
because those were ALSO better than almost everything else that was on at the time, and remain better than Disco in spite of being long out of production.
for that matter, 70s era Doctor Who is better, and was done with FAR less, also Blake's 7 (the original run), etc. etc.
there's a base problem here, it is called 'writing', it is called 'direction', it is called generating good story.
Discovery nominated for an award? of course-it says 'Star Trek' right in the title. That's like an automatic bye on nostalgia factor alone, particularly for an award like the Saturns.
but it doesn't mean it earned it on its own merits, unless you're focusing on the special effects or camera work.
aka things you do with technology.
I wasn't even defending Discovery that time! Read the full conversation with @starkaos and you'd see that I was respobeing with speculation on just why those three shows are so much better on the same platform! READ before you argue, because right now it looks like you're arguing with me for the sake of arguing!
Altered Carbon and The Expanse are originally Science Fiction novels. Altered Carbon was first published in 2002 and The Expanse was first published in 2011. So they have the added benefit of being criticized about which scenes are good and which are bad. Also, it requires the novel to be somewhat popular in order to be turned into a TV series or movie.
There are quite a few dark scenes in Altered Carbon since a human body is essentially worthless if people can transfer their consciousness to another body when it is damaged or killed.
Good point. Novels also take much longer to write (I.e. The author takes their time) and are constantly being reviewed by the author and their contacts. So I suppose it isn't surprising that a TV show based on a novel series is of higher writing quality...
Of course, it all depends on the novel. After all, there is Twilight and Fifty Shades of Filth that were made into movies, but they are completely trash. Still doesn't disprove the fact that popular novels are sometimes made in to TV series or movies since a lot of people like to read and watch trash.
That's actually pretty easy to explain by adding the word 'teen' between 'completely' and 'trash'. Twilight is a blatant appeal to teenage fantasy ideas and is a classic (not in a good way) case of appealing to the teenage girl crowd. As for Fifty Shades... I mean, the book was best selling for months based on the controversy around it and the fact it was deliberately smutty: that was practically screaming for a Hollywood cash gr-- I mean 'adaptation'. Sci-Fi by comparison tends to appeal to a more 'thinking' crowd (I can't think of a less pretentious word just now), so tends to command a little more seriousness when being adapted. Plus, Expanse et al are series able to develop a story over many hours - Twilight had three two-hour films and Fifty Shades two.
Which just goes to show how much effort Hollywood puts into teenage audiences (none) and how much benefit series have over movies when it comes to adaptations.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
hm, considering the competition, if it wins it's politics.
Actually, it could be explained by vindictiveness for Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Made episode getting the nomination. It is the Harry Mudd episode where the Discovery is destroyed a ton of times. It really says something about a show when an episode where the entire cast gets destroyed numerous times gets the nomination.
hm, considering the competition, if it wins it's politics.
Actually, it could be explained by vindictiveness for Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Made episode getting the nomination. It is the Harry Mudd episode where the Discovery is destroyed a ton of times. It really says something about a show when an episode where the entire cast gets destroyed numerous times gets the nomination.
Cause and Effect was also really popular ...
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> @starkaos said: > The problem is that Discovery is not as good as other Science Fiction shows like The Orville, The Expanse, Altered Carbon, Colony, and a bunch of others that I haven't watched. The only thing that Discovery has going for it is brand name recognition. Of course, there is also the problem of fans waiting for over 10 years for a new Star Trek series will put immense pressure on Discovery. So Star Trek fans will be harsher on Discovery compared to other Science Fiction shows due to it being Star Trek and the long wait for it.
I tried watching the Expanse, but it was too boring. Watched Altered Carbon (never read the book), and LOVED IT TO PIECES, it it deserves to win best TV show.
Best supporting actor should go to the dude from the Librarians (partly because he is great, partly to rub TNT's nose in it for cancelling the show, and partly to attract a new channel).
Best Actress is a harder choice, as is Best Actor.
I'd give Best Supporting Actress to Michelle Yeoh.
As for comparing the Saturn Awards to the Oscars and the Globes, if those two awards keep up with the #Metoo BS and acting like its a cross between a funeral and a political rally, instead of award shows, then they wil soon be no more valuable then a Saturn Award, less because at least Saturn awards would still be fun.
Honestly I find the Saturn awards more interesting anyways.
Anything with the name of Star Trek will be nominated because it is Star Trek. The only way for it to be not nominated is that it is so awful that people claw out their eyes, pour hydrochloric acid down their ears, and finally get someone to hit them in a head with a sledgehammer to remove any trace of it.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It suggests nothing of the kind and the only "pattern" is in your mind.
This. Is it seriously so hard to believe that some critics with pull in the various organizations actually enjoyed the show? Hell, I was critical of a bunch of things but I thought it was pretty good for a first season up until the mirror universe arc.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
> @azrael605 said: > Hands down the best first season of any Trek series.
Let's not get hasty, DS9 was still better, especially towards the end of the season with "Duet" and the introduction of the Bajoran religious/nationalist conflict. I think Voyager may have even had a better first season (most of the real Headbangers in that series were later, plus they had the best deconstruction of the Prime Directive in the franchise that season).
Whereas Discovery I really think got WORSE in the second half of the season. "No, Lorca isn't really just a morally ambiguous guy with a lot of problems but still trying to do the best thing he can, he's a psycho from the evil twin universe!" And so on and so forth. This article explains my opinion better than I can: https://io9.gizmodo.com/in-its-first-season-star-trek-discovery-asked-hard-qu-1822820665
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Additionally noticed that Christian Kane is nominated in the same category as Doug Jones, really hope if Frakes does more Disco next season he can bring Kane along for an episode.
Let's see... "The Saturn Awards are voted upon by members of the presenting Academy. The Academy is a non-profit organization with membership open to the public. Its President and Executive Producer is Robert Holguin, and Producer/Writers Bradley Marcus and Kevin Marcus Its members include filmmakers JJ Abrams, Bryan Singer, Steven Spielberg, Bryan Fuller, Mark A. Altman, Vince Gilligan and James Cameron, among others." I see some "conflict of interest" here with some of those names and the cast behind Star Trek: Discovery. Well, let's keep looking. Maybe I'm just being overly cynical.
Most awards: Lost with 13 awards. Most nominations: Lost with 53 nominations. Yeah, no. There is no integrity here. Coupled with numerous allegations of favoritism, the Saturn Awards are just a way for friends to give awards to friends. In fact, if Star Trek: Discovery does NOT win a Saturn, then it must have issues.
Comments
Like making Burnham Captain of the Discovery.
There is this. I think Expanse would rightly deserve an award (I only got a couple episodes in and haven't gotten around to finishing it yet). Can't spoke to Altered Carbon, but from the trailers it does look very good - the premise is interesting.
The thing to be noted here is that three of those four shows you've mentioned are on Netflix, like DSC outside the US. It's possible Netflix will weigh in on CBS regarding DSC's direction if they see it being less popular compared to their other Sci-Fi properties. (There's also the chance they won't: since Netflix doesn't have to worry about time slots as a streaming service, as long as a show is profitable they don't have much incentive to cancel it.)
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
There are quite a few dark scenes in Altered Carbon since a human body is essentially worthless if people can transfer their consciousness to another body when it is damaged or killed.
Good point. Novels also take much longer to write (I.e. The author takes their time) and are constantly being reviewed by the author and their contacts. So I suppose it isn't surprising that a TV show based on a novel series is of higher writing quality...
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Of course, it all depends on the novel. After all, there is Twilight and Fifty Shades of Filth that were made into movies, but they are completely trash. Still doesn't disprove the fact that popular novels are sometimes made in to TV series or movies since a lot of people like to read and watch trash.
I wasn't even defending Discovery that time! Read the full conversation with @starkaos and you'd see that I was respobeing with speculation on just why those three shows are so much better on the same platform! READ before you argue, because right now it looks like you're arguing with me for the sake of arguing!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
That's actually pretty easy to explain by adding the word 'teen' between 'completely' and 'trash'. Twilight is a blatant appeal to teenage fantasy ideas and is a classic (not in a good way) case of appealing to the teenage girl crowd. As for Fifty Shades... I mean, the book was best selling for months based on the controversy around it and the fact it was deliberately smutty: that was practically screaming for a Hollywood cash gr-- I mean 'adaptation'. Sci-Fi by comparison tends to appeal to a more 'thinking' crowd (I can't think of a less pretentious word just now), so tends to command a little more seriousness when being adapted. Plus, Expanse et al are series able to develop a story over many hours - Twilight had three two-hour films and Fifty Shades two.
Which just goes to show how much effort Hollywood puts into teenage audiences (none) and how much benefit series have over movies when it comes to adaptations.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
http://trekcore.com/blog/2018/03/star-trek-discovery-lands-hugo-award-nomination/
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually, it could be explained by vindictiveness for Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Made episode getting the nomination. It is the Harry Mudd episode where the Discovery is destroyed a ton of times. It really says something about a show when an episode where the entire cast gets destroyed numerous times gets the nomination.
Cause and Effect was also really popular ...
> The problem is that Discovery is not as good as other Science Fiction shows like The Orville, The Expanse, Altered Carbon, Colony, and a bunch of others that I haven't watched. The only thing that Discovery has going for it is brand name recognition. Of course, there is also the problem of fans waiting for over 10 years for a new Star Trek series will put immense pressure on Discovery. So Star Trek fans will be harsher on Discovery compared to other Science Fiction shows due to it being Star Trek and the long wait for it.
I tried watching the Expanse, but it was too boring. Watched Altered Carbon (never read the book), and LOVED IT TO PIECES, it it deserves to win best TV show.
Best supporting actor should go to the dude from the Librarians (partly because he is great, partly to rub TNT's nose in it for cancelling the show, and partly to attract a new channel).
Best Actress is a harder choice, as is Best Actor.
I'd give Best Supporting Actress to Michelle Yeoh.
As for comparing the Saturn Awards to the Oscars and the Globes, if those two awards keep up with the #Metoo BS and acting like its a cross between a funeral and a political rally, instead of award shows, then they wil soon be no more valuable then a Saturn Award, less because at least Saturn awards would still be fun.
Honestly I find the Saturn awards more interesting anyways.
Co-Leader of Serenity's Grasp
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
We will see if it wins a Hugo and Saturn awards to go with it.
Of course, Captain Lorca would win an Empire Award since he is part of the Terran Empire.
This. Is it seriously so hard to believe that some critics with pull in the various organizations actually enjoyed the show? Hell, I was critical of a bunch of things but I thought it was pretty good for a first season up until the mirror universe arc.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
> Hands down the best first season of any Trek series.
Let's not get hasty, DS9 was still better, especially towards the end of the season with "Duet" and the introduction of the Bajoran religious/nationalist conflict. I think Voyager may have even had a better first season (most of the real Headbangers in that series were later, plus they had the best deconstruction of the Prime Directive in the franchise that season).
Whereas Discovery I really think got WORSE in the second half of the season. "No, Lorca isn't really just a morally ambiguous guy with a lot of problems but still trying to do the best thing he can, he's a psycho from the evil twin universe!" And so on and so forth. This article explains my opinion better than I can: https://io9.gizmodo.com/in-its-first-season-star-trek-discovery-asked-hard-qu-1822820665
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Award
Let's see... "The Saturn Awards are voted upon by members of the presenting Academy. The Academy is a non-profit organization with membership open to the public. Its President and Executive Producer is Robert Holguin, and Producer/Writers Bradley Marcus and Kevin Marcus Its members include filmmakers JJ Abrams, Bryan Singer, Steven Spielberg, Bryan Fuller, Mark A. Altman, Vince Gilligan and James Cameron, among others." I see some "conflict of interest" here with some of those names and the cast behind Star Trek: Discovery. Well, let's keep looking. Maybe I'm just being overly cynical.
Most awards: Lost with 13 awards. Most nominations: Lost with 53 nominations. Yeah, no. There is no integrity here. Coupled with numerous allegations of favoritism, the Saturn Awards are just a way for friends to give awards to friends. In fact, if Star Trek: Discovery does NOT win a Saturn, then it must have issues.