They certainly ended with a climactic where are they now senario, if it is the MU which is probable as they mentioned an inclusion then phase 2- could be fun.
TNG, VOY and DS9 all had to find their feet as does this one, hope it doesn't fall flat on it's face like Enterprise.
Oh and Tyler has a timelord watch that turns him back to Voq!
I mean, by the time of 'Mirror Mirror' TOS there was nothing to suggest that the Terran Empire's Constituion class Starships were any more technologically advanced than their 'Prime' universe' counterparts. So that does beg the question - what did happen to the (Constitution class) Defiant? Destroyed? Interphased again? Are the Mirror-Constitution class ships a lot older than their 'Prime' universe counterparts due to the Emprire reverse engineering the Defiant and then perhaps relying too much on it to the point where they reached a technological standstill for a time?
Repressive empires have a tendency to progress slowly, if at all, as autocrats begin to fear that technological advances might threaten their positions. Such empires need not be classically "imperial", of course - in Niven's Known Space stories, for instance, one of the tasks of the Amalgamated Regional Militia (ARM), the police branch of the planetary UN government, is monitoring and occasionally suppressing new technology (for example, one incident mentioned in passing in the third Gil Hamilton story was the FyreStop device, which suppressed fires by using a field that essentially reduced local entropy - and turned out to be a dandy murder weapon, as it also suppressed the chemical reactions needed to keep someone alive).
The Terran Empire was taken over by one junior officer of the Imperial Fleet, using the power of a single Federation starship. New emperors would want to suppress the development of anything that might overtake their own power, such as improved versions of that starship. Thus, by the 23rd century by the Prime calendar, the Empire was flying ships of almost precisely the same power as the Constitution-class Defiant. And when the overthrown Imperials wanted to fight back against the Klingon Alliance and take back their former power, they needed to steal a Prime-universe starship design, because what they had was severely outclassed by developed Klingon and Cardassian technologies.
You don't even need the state to be unusually oppressive for people not to want tech advances that might obsolete them or their way of thinking. The Royal Navy tried to stop the introduction of turreted breech-loading guns, to the point where one ridiculous battleship had a friggin crane to drop huge shells shells down the muzzle of its guns. The Union Army went into the War of Southern Aggression with cruddy 1812-vintage smoothbore muskets when multi-shot rifles were starting to become a thing: some dumbass in the War Department thought having more than one shot available would encourage soldiers to spray-n-pray instead of aiming their shots when the complete opposite was true (repeaters were both more accurate and safer to reload under fire than muzzleloaders), and didn't even think to buy up a stockpile of British Enfield rifles just to keep Lee from getting them.
And, uh, coal jobs, anyone?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
During Lorca's heroic speech we see the crew in a montage and everyone prepares to save the day. During that exact montage I learned two things: One, I don't know a significant part of crew shown there. Mrs. Roboto, the implant face, weapons guy/navigator - who are those people and why should I care? Which brings me to point two: Even the ones I know I don't care about. Looking back we had nine episodes. Nine episodes I completely failed to learn anything substantial about those characters OR the world in general, save getting three or four expositions about that dumb engine that lets you now jump universes while a war goes on which is really just a fight against one ship which is now kaputt if we don't do temporal shenenigans to go back.
Not really getting to know parts of the bridge crew is almost certainly intentional. Discovery is obviously not structured like previous shows in the franchise. We aren't supposed to know anything about Side-Shave McCranial-Implant or Way-Too-Many-Dreads McSeat-Filler. As far as Discovery is concerned, if you un-learn the "bridge crew are all main characters" aspect, none of that will bother you anymore.
At any rate. Balance of Terror good? Nah. But definitely a strong showing for the series.
This episode was pretty predictable all things considered, but I did get one big surprise - the last thing I expected in a Star Trek show was a brief, uncensored look at a Klingon's, um... ample nacelles, if you'll pardon the engineering parlance.
I can't see a vertical line (the dagger) to me it looks more like a deflector or window than a logo, much less the Terran one.
The yellow is too striking to just be a deflector IMO. I can almost make out the dagger, I think, but it's so fuzzy that it could absolutely still just be a hull feature of some kind.
If it wasn't for the fact they've confirmed MU for DIS, I'd be on the fence, but that fact combined with that very clear and distinct yellow makes me think it's got to be MU.
And I'm pumped. I hope they go ham with it and give everyone goatees and dangerously short crop tops. Yippee!
Burnham is just such a bland Mary-sue it's boring
She is not a very good "Mary-sue". We have only seen her excel at deception and drama. While the universe often praises Burnham, the actions she actually performs appear far from extraordinary. This is what makes her boring and uninteresting.
1) Mary Sue is more a thing for fan fiction than the core fiction.
2) She isn't praised "by the universe". People praised her for her competence when she showed it, and they hated her for her mutiny. When she acts rudely, she is actually called out for it and people comment on it negatively (or even offer some ridicule, depending on the situation).
Heck, in the previous episode Lorca clearly criticizes her for failing her mission because the planetary subspace beacon is not sending a signal helping to detect cloaked ships, but sending a subspace invitation to the Klingons. (And in fact, I have a hard time remembering where something like that happened previously in Star Trek - "hey, we got the mission done, Captain". "No, you didn't, you screwed it up!")
#2 is very much the key point. The Mary Sue definition is (at its most basic) an idealized character who is "practically perfect in every way" (sorry, Mary Poppins). S/he is the best evah at everything and characters fawn over him/her no matter what nonsense or criminality s/he commits.
Burnham fails this most basic Mary Sue criterion. Her character flaws, of which there are many, are there deliberately to give her room for character development, and she is very much shown not to be in the right with her actions in the pilot (that is, her reading of the situation was more or less correct, but the course of action she chose to deal with it was emotionally driven and clearly incorrect), and the other characters all hate her for it until she earns their trust. And for another example, she's a science officer, so, despite the fact Starfleet officers multiclass compared to other military personnel in the setting, she's barely able to keep Kol off her when she fights him in "Into the Forest" (and that's with the establishment in the third episode that she's been trained in suus mahna). Somebody like Kirk or Sisko, straight-up soldiers, might have done better. So that's the "best evah at everything" criterion flunked, too.
Now, you want a Canon Sue, you go to somebody like Jadzia Dax. Great at Klingon martial arts, great scientist, great drinker, past life was a great diplomat, connected to three major Klingons of TOS through aforementioned past life, etc. And her character flaws, such as arrogance, are barely commented on, and usually in the context of making the commenter look bad for criticizing her.
/deathtotheeditmonster
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'm afraid of that too, and I'm losing hope here. It really seems like they're doing just that. <.<
Aside from that primal fear, the episode was really awsome in many ways. High stakes, for once the obligatory "I'm commiting a direct violation of our orders"-line is somewhat justified, good action, PTSD-acting, conveniently saving the admiral AND some satisfactory revenge on klingons, flashbacks to interracial intercourse (not a Grilka, but L'Rell ain't that bad-looking- she just lacks hair). And the reaction of L'Rell on Tyler really makes me wonder if he might be Voq AFTERALL. Transplanted skin from a killed human with transplanted memories and suppressed own self and bam, you get Tyloq. Would also explain her "special interest" in him.
Also, magic space-mushroom-overdose and a good cliffhanger-ending.
Good times, but POOR STAMETS!
Also, to please not boldly go into a goatee-universe...
Burnham is just such a bland Mary-sue it's boring
She is not a very good "Mary-sue". We have only seen her excel at deception and drama. While the universe often praises Burnham, the actions she actually performs appear far from extraordinary. This is what makes her boring and uninteresting.
1) Mary Sue is more a thing for fan fiction than the core fiction.
2) She isn't praised "by the universe". People praised her for her competence when she showed it, and they hated her for her mutiny. When she acts rudely, she is actually called out for it and people comment on it negatively (or even offer some ridicule, depending on the situation).
Heck, in the previous episode Lorca clearly criticizes her for failing her mission because the planetary subspace beacon is not sending a signal helping to detect cloaked ships, but sending a subspace invitation to the Klingons. (And in fact, I have a hard time remembering where something like that happened previously in Star Trek - "hey, we got the mission done, Captain". "No, you didn't, you screwed it up!")
#2 is very much the key point. The Mary Sue definition is (at its most basic) an idealized character who is "practically perfect in every way" (sorry, Mary Poppins). S/he is the best evah at everything and characters fawn over him/her no matter what nonsense or criminality s/he commits.
Burnham fails this most basic Mary Sue criterion. Her character flaws, of which there are many, are there deliberately to give her room for character development, and she is very much shown not to be in the right with her actions in the pilot (that is, her reading of the situation was more or less correct, but the course of action she chose to deal with it was emotionally driven and clearly incorrect), and the other characters all hate her for it until she earns their trust. And for another example, she's a science officer, so, despite the fact Starfleet officers multiclass compared to other military personnel in the setting, she's barely able to keep Kol off her when she fights him in "Into the Forest" (and that's with the establishment in the third episode that she's been trained in suus mahna). Somebody like Kirk or Sisko, straight-up soldiers, might have done better. So that's the "best evah at everything" criterion flunked, too.
Also notable how her Vulcan combat techniques didn't really help her against Saru. She needed that phaser...
Now, you want a Canon Sue, you go to somebody like Jadzia Dax. Great at Klingon martial arts, great scientist, great drinker, past life was a great diplomat, connected to three major Klingons of TOS through aforementioned past life, etc. And her character flaws, such as arrogance, are barely commented on, and usually in the context of making the commenter look bad for criticizing her.
/deathtotheeditmonster
Jadzia however might at least be somewhat justified case, since she has the experience of several lifetimes in quite different professions.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Jadzia is super-competent compared to other Trills. She's super-competent compared to Ezri even! Such as being good enough at Tonga to occasionally beat Quark when Bashir couldn't do it.
> @markhawkman said: > Jadzia is super-competent compared to other Trills. She's super-competent compared to Ezri even! Such as being good enough at Tonga to occasionally beat Quark when Bashir couldn't do it.
But that's just it, though. You compare Jadzia to Ezri, the one is at least competent at basically everything she ever does, from analyzing artifacts of godlike aliens to commanding a tacscort in wartime. And as previously mentioned, her arrogance and mercuriality are barely touched on, and the only major time it is (the Risa episode), the end result is an attempt to make Worf look like the bad guy for actually trying to have a serious discussion about their relationship (which was supposed to have been the whole point of going to Risa to begin with, which was where she, not he, wanted to vacation).
The other isn't even that good at her OWN ostensible job specialty, psychiatry (and that isn't affected by the fact that Ezri Tigan didn't receive any training on how to use Dax before implantation: she was a ship's counselor beforehand). Her inexperience is written as something for her character to grow out of, just like Bashir grew out of being an arrogant wide-eyed FNG all excited about frontier medicine (Kira: "This frontier is my home") and into a mature, compassionate medical officer.
/Suckiteditmonster
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
> @markhawkman said:
> Jadzia is super-competent compared to other Trills. She's super-competent compared to Ezri even! Such as being good enough at Tonga to occasionally beat Quark when Bashir couldn't do it.
But that's just it, though. You compare Jadzia to Ezri, the one is at least competent at basically everything she ever does, from analyzing artifacts of godlike aliens to commanding a tacscort in wartime. And as previously mentioned, her arrogance and mercuriality are barely touched on, and the only major time it is (the Risa episode), the end result is an attempt to make Worf look like the bad guy for actually trying to have a serious discussion about their relationship (which was supposed to have been the whole point of going to Risa to begin with, which was where she, not he, wanted to vacation).
The other isn't even that good at her OWN ostensible job specialty, psychiatry (and that isn't affected by the fact that Ezri Tigan didn't receive any training on how to use Dax before implantation: she was a ship's counselor beforehand). Her inexperience is written as something for her character to grow out of, just like Bashir grew out of being an arrogant wide-eyed FNG all excited about frontier medicine (Kira: "This frontier is my home") and into a mature, compassionate medical officer.
/Suckiteditmonster
Agreed - and sadly, those writing recent novels involving Ezri would appear to agree. Unfortunately the end-product is a ridiculously Mary-Sue character commanding a Mary-Sue ship. I absolutely loathe what the novels have done to the character.
Heh, I've got a pet theory that Novelverse!Ezri is a STO player character. Think about it: she inherits command of the Aventine when her CO is killed in a Borg attack, and turns into this hypercompetent captain who can be everywhere faster and do everything better than anybody else in her series.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
TNG, VOY and DS9 all had to find their feet as does this one, hope it doesn't fall flat on it's face like Enterprise.
Oh and Tyler has a timelord watch that turns him back to Voq!
The Terran Empire was taken over by one junior officer of the Imperial Fleet, using the power of a single Federation starship. New emperors would want to suppress the development of anything that might overtake their own power, such as improved versions of that starship. Thus, by the 23rd century by the Prime calendar, the Empire was flying ships of almost precisely the same power as the Constitution-class Defiant. And when the overthrown Imperials wanted to fight back against the Klingon Alliance and take back their former power, they needed to steal a Prime-universe starship design, because what they had was severely outclassed by developed Klingon and Cardassian technologies.
And, uh, coal jobs, anyone?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Not really getting to know parts of the bridge crew is almost certainly intentional. Discovery is obviously not structured like previous shows in the franchise. We aren't supposed to know anything about Side-Shave McCranial-Implant or Way-Too-Many-Dreads McSeat-Filler. As far as Discovery is concerned, if you un-learn the "bridge crew are all main characters" aspect, none of that will bother you anymore.
At any rate. Balance of Terror good? Nah. But definitely a strong showing for the series.
This episode was pretty predictable all things considered, but I did get one big surprise - the last thing I expected in a Star Trek show was a brief, uncensored look at a Klingon's, um... ample nacelles, if you'll pardon the engineering parlance.
The yellow is too striking to just be a deflector IMO. I can almost make out the dagger, I think, but it's so fuzzy that it could absolutely still just be a hull feature of some kind.
If it wasn't for the fact they've confirmed MU for DIS, I'd be on the fence, but that fact combined with that very clear and distinct yellow makes me think it's got to be MU.
And I'm pumped. I hope they go ham with it and give everyone goatees and dangerously short crop tops. Yippee!
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
#2 is very much the key point. The Mary Sue definition is (at its most basic) an idealized character who is "practically perfect in every way" (sorry, Mary Poppins). S/he is the best evah at everything and characters fawn over him/her no matter what nonsense or criminality s/he commits.
Burnham fails this most basic Mary Sue criterion. Her character flaws, of which there are many, are there deliberately to give her room for character development, and she is very much shown not to be in the right with her actions in the pilot (that is, her reading of the situation was more or less correct, but the course of action she chose to deal with it was emotionally driven and clearly incorrect), and the other characters all hate her for it until she earns their trust. And for another example, she's a science officer, so, despite the fact Starfleet officers multiclass compared to other military personnel in the setting, she's barely able to keep Kol off her when she fights him in "Into the Forest" (and that's with the establishment in the third episode that she's been trained in suus mahna). Somebody like Kirk or Sisko, straight-up soldiers, might have done better. So that's the "best evah at everything" criterion flunked, too.
Now, you want a Canon Sue, you go to somebody like Jadzia Dax. Great at Klingon martial arts, great scientist, great drinker, past life was a great diplomat, connected to three major Klingons of TOS through aforementioned past life, etc. And her character flaws, such as arrogance, are barely commented on, and usually in the context of making the commenter look bad for criticizing her.
/deathtotheeditmonster
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I'm afraid of that too, and I'm losing hope here. It really seems like they're doing just that. <.<
Aside from that primal fear, the episode was really awsome in many ways. High stakes, for once the obligatory "I'm commiting a direct violation of our orders"-line is somewhat justified, good action, PTSD-acting, conveniently saving the admiral AND some satisfactory revenge on klingons, flashbacks to interracial intercourse (not a Grilka, but L'Rell ain't that bad-looking- she just lacks hair). And the reaction of L'Rell on Tyler really makes me wonder if he might be Voq AFTERALL. Transplanted skin from a killed human with transplanted memories and suppressed own self and bam, you get Tyloq. Would also explain her "special interest" in him.
Also, magic space-mushroom-overdose and a good cliffhanger-ending.
Good times, but POOR STAMETS!
Also, to please not boldly go into a goatee-universe...
Jadzia however might at least be somewhat justified case, since she has the experience of several lifetimes in quite different professions.
My character Tsin'xing
> Jadzia is super-competent compared to other Trills. She's super-competent compared to Ezri even! Such as being good enough at Tonga to occasionally beat Quark when Bashir couldn't do it.
But that's just it, though. You compare Jadzia to Ezri, the one is at least competent at basically everything she ever does, from analyzing artifacts of godlike aliens to commanding a tacscort in wartime. And as previously mentioned, her arrogance and mercuriality are barely touched on, and the only major time it is (the Risa episode), the end result is an attempt to make Worf look like the bad guy for actually trying to have a serious discussion about their relationship (which was supposed to have been the whole point of going to Risa to begin with, which was where she, not he, wanted to vacation).
The other isn't even that good at her OWN ostensible job specialty, psychiatry (and that isn't affected by the fact that Ezri Tigan didn't receive any training on how to use Dax before implantation: she was a ship's counselor beforehand). Her inexperience is written as something for her character to grow out of, just like Bashir grew out of being an arrogant wide-eyed FNG all excited about frontier medicine (Kira: "This frontier is my home") and into a mature, compassionate medical officer.
/Suckiteditmonster
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Heh, I've got a pet theory that Novelverse!Ezri is a STO player character. Think about it: she inherits command of the Aventine when her CO is killed in a Borg attack, and turns into this hypercompetent captain who can be everywhere faster and do everything better than anybody else in her series.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/