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✪ [DISCOVERY] S01E09 "Into the Forest I Go" | REVIEWS ✪

donnydoo818#3004 donnydoo818 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
edited November 2017 in Ten Forward
Bypassing Starfleet's orders, Lorca uses the USS Discovery crew's ultimate asset, the ship itself, in an effort to end the war with the Klingons once and for all.

✪ [DISCOVERY] S01E09 "Into the Forest I Go" | REVIEWS ✪ 24 votes

I liked it
83%
mirrorchaosmustrumridcully0daveynyreyan01lordsteve1mhall85psycoticvulcanvaloreahricosakarawildthyme467989evilmark444hrci2907orondisbawdytieflingtheraven2378starswordcluddimusredeyedravenmarty123#3757kisstheblade#3393 20 votes
I did NOT like it
12%
thay8472darakossaurigas7 3 votes
Other/explain
4%
thelordofshades 1 vote
«1

Comments

  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I liked it
    A little early obviously to jump ahead of the queue to create the thread. i am glad someone else is doing it with a little more style. No need to worry about future threads. :smile:

    anyway i will post my thoughts on monday or tuesday when i get to see the final episode before the mid-season starts. 7 January 2018 is when the tenth episode will start.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,536 Arc User
    I liked it
    Looking forward to the episode - looks to be a good one judging by the trailer. Not looking forward to the 'break' though.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,967 Arc User
    I did NOT like it
    Ending the war already? BOOO!!!!
  • crimeonadime#2645 crimeonadime Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Looking forward to whatever cliff hanger they leave us with until January.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    I liked it
    I've long been convinced that Tyler is Voq, but now I also think that he has no idea that is the case.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    I liked it
    Was half expecting Kol to become a bigger thorn in the side of Starfleet than his death facing down Discovery this soon.
    Stamets and his predictable giveaway response was carried out more or less exactly, Lorca said it himself to Stamets, he is an explorer.

    Then there is the after effects of what happened to Tyler, the serious side of what happens when you take something too casually when in fact it shouldn't be taken as a joke at all. Discovery is touching on the subject of mental and physical abuse and exploring it is a direction the creators should take it for the viewer to understand what it's like being trapped and alone with those thoughts torturing you on a daily basis.

    Kodus to Discovery.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Well that was a good mid-series finale.
    • No apparent deus ex machina to solve the day here, just established stuff from earlier in the series. No just getting Robot the Sidekick to hack the problem away or activating the bollocksbeam generator as TNG or VGR would have done.
    • Why did those sensor pods talk? Worst part of the episode.
    • Why is there only one medical officer on the ship? Isn't it unethical to treat your own relations or partners? Starfleet seems as lackadaisical as Holby City when it comes to doctor just doing whatever they feel like.
    • These Tricorders. I take back what I said months ago. They are a great development of the NX and Kelvin versions and a believable precursor to the TNG ones and some of the TOS film versions.
    • Poor Kol. The only Klingon in the show I really liked. Maybe we'll see Kor getting a promotion to the head of House Kor now.
    • Sigh. Pleasedon'tbethemirroruniverse Pleasedon'tbethemirroruniverse Pleasedon'tbethemirroruniverse pig-7.gifpig-28.gif.
    • The fact the spore drive can access alternate universes is a neat idea, especially if that proves the MU is a separate universe and not a split timeline like the KT, YE, or Endgame.
    • Lorca is more complex that he seems. He dosn't need Officer McMushroomface to jump now he know how it works (and thus can use any pilot) so he's no need to manipulate him. So his encouragement to return to exploration and discovery after the war seems genuine.
    • I really love Kols factions uniforms. I think they're my favourite Klingon costumes after the KT ones followed by the UC ones. They look like fighters not like metalheads cosplaying as Vikings.

    This one goes here and not on my bullet points but I've read comments on other sites as well as posts on the ST subreddit and it seems there's a lot of people (very likely American but possibly others) who seem to imply that L'Rell being visibly naked whilst r.aping Tyler is somehow the crux of the issue of making this show 'not family friendly' to them. With the implication being that the scene would be acceptable without the nudity. I'm not saying if it would or wouldn't be, Star Trek has shown torture (both physical and psychological) before as well as mindr.ape as well as immensely brutal deaths (totem pole of Borg corpses, exploding bug host, crushing Marcuse's head, skewering a child), but the suggestion that the visible nudity is the reason shows some very skewed values and ethics.​​
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited November 2017
    I liked it
    Good episode. A bit on the predictable side, but great job of moving the story forward.

    And Tyler is totally Voq.

    A few thoughts, at the mid-season break:
    • I still don't know what to think of Michael Burnham. I don't hate her, especially in the last few episodes. I'm still not convinced that the Sarek connection was necessary for the character (and the series) to work. I really wish they had the testicular fortitude to have made Burnham THE "Number One" from "The Cage." I think that would have done far more to build canon for the selected era, and would have been a tribute of sorts to Majel Barrett. (Obviously, a few plot/character points would have to be changed a bit to make this work.) I also think it would have been interesting to make T'Pol the mentor of Burnham, and not Sarek. You wouldn't have lost much, in the end, but it would have felt less forced, in my opinion.
    • I do think the Klingons got better as the story progressed. I still think the subtitles were a road too far, and I also would have tempered the redesign. Still, L'Rell seems interesting enough, and Kol really stepped into a classic Klingon villain role (a la Kruge or Cheng). The universal translator idea was a clever touch in this episode, and now, the only Klinks left are ones that know English. Bodes well for the rest of the season.
    • The mythos of Discovery, and why no one talks about this ship in the future, is developing nicely. Clearly, genetic manipulation is not on Starfleet's to-do list, and this particular form of manipulation has conswquences when used with the spore drive. I'm still interested, though, in what happens next.
    • The core six characters (Burnham, Lorca, Tyler, Saru, Stamets, and Tilly) are developing well enough. I have issues with Culber, but at least they gave him something substantial to do in this episode. I'm very glad Cornwell will live to see another day, and as I sorta said earlier, L'Rell is the most interesting Klingon to me. Now, I hope this show will have more testicular fortitude to KILL ONE OF THEM OFF. And not just for shock value. Make me hate the loss. Make the stakes real, and make it that you can't come back from it with a woosh of a transporter. It doesn't have to be this season, either (although, I bet L'Rell bites it... seems like the obvious choice, at this point).
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited November 2017
    I liked it
    artan42 wrote: »
    Why is there only one medical officer on the ship? Isn't it unethical to treat your own relations or partners? Starfleet seems as lackadaisical as Holby City when it comes to doctor just doing whatever they feel like.

    Personally, I don't think they've handled this very well, as storytellers. They put the cart before the horse in a number of ways, IMO. Culber didn't feel like a doctor (to me, at least) until this episode, and add to that, he's not even the ship's CMO. His relationship doesn't feel earned with Stamets, either (reminds me of the botched Lois/Clark relationship in the DCEU, with more "tell" than "show").

    I think it speaks to a larger issue with this season... in a few instances, at least, they're rushing to get to a place we haven't earned. The plot would have been served better, had they taken their time a bit on a few points. Not a deal breaker, really, but it could be better from a storytelling perspective.

    The fact the spore drive can access alternate universes is a neat idea, especially if that proves the MU is a separate universe and not a split timeline like the KT, YE, or Endgame.

    I get the gripe, here, and I agree about the ridiculousness of the MU. (I actually hate that DS9 went down that road at all.) Still, I think this franchise has blurred the definitions of "timeline," "universe," and "reality" to the point where I don't care, LOL. To me, the MU reality and the KT reality are on the same plane.
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,066 Arc User
    I liked it
    That L'Rell is a naughty one. :wink:
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    [*] Sigh. Pleasedon'tbethemirroruniverse Pleasedon'tbethemirroruniverse Pleasedon'tbethemirroruniverse .
    Look at the logo man

    k9jzkRh.png

    VVlMI7e.jpg

    I can't see a vertical line (the dagger) to me it looks more like a deflector or window than a logo, much less the Terran one.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • damienvryce2damienvryce2 Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    Well the MU is at least aware of an alternate universe based on the fact that they recovered the Defiant. But the Prime universe doesn't become aware of the MU until "Mirror, Mirror" which is in the future for Discovery. I was hoping they wouldn't go down the MU rabbit hole. I guess we'll find out in January :/
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I liked it
    Good mid-season finale, but "One Final jUmp" - if that isn't a sign to you that something is going to go wrong, then you probably didn't check the video runtime either. :p

    I was surprised that Kol was killed already, but we might not have seen the end of the Klingon threat, if L'Rell is now getting into Tyler's head. I am still not sure what really happened (Tyler brainwashed and getting a Voq subroutine implanted? Voq transformed into Tyler?), or how it's getting resolved, but I'll be there seeing it unfold. #

    The idea on how to scan the Klingon ship was clever. Their sensors equipped with loudspikers and blinking lights seemed... suboptimal, but I suppose the way they were positioned it didn't matter. (After all, they could overlook an entire human until that human decided she needed to intervene)


    I guess this episode explains a bit on why the Romulan Cloak technology in Balance of Terror was still impressive, but it also still doesn't match the dialogue completely.


    It almost seems as if Lorca is redeeming himself in this episode - he takes the stance to save the singing planet for no other reason than because that is the right thing to do.
    Unless of course he deliberately entered wrong coordinates for that "last jump".
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  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    I liked it
    Unless of course he deliberately entered wrong coordinates for that "last jump".
    If you look closely, when he pushes the buttons on his chair, the display clearly shows he purposefully overrode the original destination to an "unknown" destination.

    Now, THAT is interesting.

    The "Lorca is MU" Truthers will like hearing that, but it could simply be Lorca jumping the gun to take advantage of his golden goose before he bolts.
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,838 Arc User
    During Lorca's heroic speech we see the crew in a montage and everyone prepares to save the day. During that exact montage I learned two things: One, I don't know a significant part of crew shown there. Mrs. Roboto, the implant face, weapons guy/navigator - who are those people and why should I care? Which brings me to point two: Even the ones I know I don't care about. Looking back we had nine episodes. Nine episodes I completely failed to learn anything substantial about those characters OR the world in general, save getting three or four expositions about that dumb engine that lets you now jump universes while a war goes on which is really just a fight against one ship which is now kaputt if we don't do temporal shenenigans to go back.

    My main problem I think is that DSC feels as if it has no idea what it wants. And failed to show me anything really worth remembering.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    During Lorca's heroic speech we see the crew in a montage and everyone prepares to save the day. During that exact montage I learned two things: One, I don't know a significant part of crew shown there. Mrs. Roboto, the implant face, weapons guy/navigator - who are those people and why should I care? Which brings me to point two: Even the ones I know I don't care about. Looking back we had nine episodes. Nine episodes I completely failed to learn anything substantial about those characters OR the world in general, save getting three or four expositions about that dumb engine that lets you now jump universes while a war goes on which is really just a fight against one ship which is now kaputt if we don't do temporal shenenigans to go back.

    My main problem I think is that DSC feels as if it has no idea what it wants. And failed to show me anything really worth remembering.

    But as I said before we never really learnt about more than three characters fully in any other series (baring DS9) and certainty not half way through series 1.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I liked it
    Yeah, I don't like the Tyler-is-Voq theory, although I'm starting to become convinced of it since finding out Shazad Latif's birth surname is Iqbal (they've listed Voq's actor as Javid Iqbal).

    Reason I don't like it has more to do with setting logic. They can do a DNA test with a tricorder for crying out loud; plastic surgery wouldn't cut it like it would in a real-world setting. And for damn sure they would've done some kind of check on him to see if he really is who he says he is after rescuing him from a Klingon prison ship (he doesn't have to be a Klingon, he could just be another human prisoner pretending to be Starfleet).

    But then Star Trek has been that dumb before, so...

    /dieinafireeditmonster
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    starswordc wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't like the Tyler-is-Voq theory, although I'm starting to become convinced of it since finding out Shazad Latif's birth surname is Iqbal (they've listed Voq's actor as Javid Iqbal).

    He's also English (Latif, not Iqbal whomever that turns out to be). I know why Issacs didn't want to use his own accent (to avoid comparisons with the heavily French accented Picard) but a lot of English actors, I notice, spent all their time in American media with American accents.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Reason I don't like it has more to do with setting logic. They can do a DNA test with a tricorder for crying out loud; plastic surgery wouldn't cut it like it would in a real-world setting. And for damn sure they would've done some kind of check on him to see if he really is who he says he is after rescuing him from a Klingon prison ship (he doesn't have to be a Klingon, he could just be another human prisoner pretending to be Starfleet).

    I'm almost certain genetic manipulation affects the genes and therefore the DNA.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I liked it
    If you watch Tyler's flashbacks closely, there's a point where Voq's face is actually shown.
    He's mixing up his remembering of the procedure to change him, and his bedroom romps with the klingon lady. (whose names escapes me at the moment)
    There's likely a whole bunch of implanted memories he's carrying as well in the mix.
    To me, it's pretty obvious by her demeanor toward him while in the cell and what she says to him, that he's Voq.
    B)
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,838 Arc User
    @artan42 valid point, however in this case it's problematic in my opinion since usually you introduce characters, then put them in peril so one can care. Here it's the other way around. But I can ho into more depths later when I'm back home.

    My current feelgood-theory is that Discovery and the Klingorks all actually took place in a different quantum reality/universe and NOW they crossed into TOS prime. That explains nobody knowing about the project later, the humanfied Voq/Tyler joining prime TOS Klingons and the crew we follow as audience experiences prime from the "outside", visiting different places that shows us TOS worldbuilding which would explain the creators insistence on respecting canon which they haven't so far, as well as the anti-climactic end of the "War" at this point. If so, I begin to like this.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    I liked it
    angrytarg wrote: »
    During Lorca's heroic speech we see the crew in a montage and everyone prepares to save the day. During that exact montage I learned two things: One, I don't know a significant part of crew shown there. Mrs. Roboto, the implant face, weapons guy/navigator - who are those people and why should I care? Which brings me to point two: Even the ones I know I don't care about. Looking back we had nine episodes. Nine episodes I completely failed to learn anything substantial about those characters OR the world in general, save getting three or four expositions about that dumb engine that lets you now jump universes while a war goes on which is really just a fight against one ship which is now kaputt if we don't do temporal shenenigans to go back.

    My main problem I think is that DSC feels as if it has no idea what it wants. And failed to show me anything really worth remembering.
    I think that you don't know much about most of the bridge crew is more or less intentional, given that the show deliberaly doesn't follow a starfleet (bridge/command) crew, but one character particularly.

    That you don't know anything substantial about the characters that have been in focus... I don't know, maybe you're missing the forest for the trees?

    Do you really know nothing substantial about Burnham, for example? Her relationship with Sarek, the reason she got into Starfleet, her feelings about her mutiny and her new role on Discovery, her feelings toward Georgiou or Tyler?

    Do you really know nothing about Tyler, Saru or Stamets? Did you really forgot it all already?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,536 Arc User
    I liked it
    angrytarg wrote: »
    During Lorca's heroic speech we see the crew in a montage and everyone prepares to save the day. During that exact montage I learned two things: One, I don't know a significant part of crew shown there. Mrs. Roboto, the implant face, weapons guy/navigator - who are those people and why should I care? Which brings me to point two: Even the ones I know I don't care about. Looking back we had nine episodes. Nine episodes I completely failed to learn anything substantial about those characters OR the world in general, save getting three or four expositions about that dumb engine that lets you now jump universes while a war goes on which is really just a fight against one ship which is now kaputt if we don't do temporal shenenigans to go back.

    My main problem I think is that DSC feels as if it has no idea what it wants. And failed to show me anything really worth remembering.

    Whilst I won't pretend I haven't enjoyed Discovery (I actually really have) I have to admit that one of my early misgivings did come into play: namely the 'lead character' emphasis resulting in other characters not getting a look-in. It wasn't enough to put me off but I do feel it ironic that we probably know more about Admiral Deathflag, a 'guest' character, than we do some of the Discovery's bridge crew.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    I liked it
    artan42 wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    During Lorca's heroic speech we see the crew in a montage and everyone prepares to save the day. During that exact montage I learned two things: One, I don't know a significant part of crew shown there. Mrs. Roboto, the implant face, weapons guy/navigator - who are those people and why should I care? Which brings me to point two: Even the ones I know I don't care about. Looking back we had nine episodes. Nine episodes I completely failed to learn anything substantial about those characters OR the world in general, save getting three or four expositions about that dumb engine that lets you now jump universes while a war goes on which is really just a fight against one ship which is now kaputt if we don't do temporal shenenigans to go back.

    My main problem I think is that DSC feels as if it has no idea what it wants. And failed to show me anything really worth remembering.

    But as I said before we never really learnt about more than three characters fully in any other series (baring DS9) and certainty not half way through series 1.

    We may not have learned about them fully this early on, but they were certainly more than background characters, which is all the Discovery bridge crew has been at this point. Infact, I couldn't give you any of their names without looking them up.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't like the Tyler-is-Voq theory, although I'm starting to become convinced of it since finding out Shazad Latif's birth surname is Iqbal (they've listed Voq's actor as Javid Iqbal).

    Reason I don't like it has more to do with setting logic. They can do a DNA test with a tricorder for crying out loud; plastic surgery wouldn't cut it like it would in a real-world setting. And for damn sure they would've done some kind of check on him to see if he really is who he says he is after rescuing him from a Klingon prison ship (he doesn't have to be a Klingon, he could just be another human prisoner pretending to be Starfleet).

    But then Star Trek has been that dumb before, so...

    /dieinafireeditmonster

    Tyler and Burnham used tech to mask their life signs as Klingon, isn't it possible Tyler could have an implanted version as well to mask him as human?

    Also, Voq was clearly depicted as an important character, but he completely disappeared after T'rell said he could save the empire by sacrificing everything. And immediately upon his disappearance, Tyler conveniently shows up.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,838 Arc User
    I think that you don't know much about most of the bridge crew is more or less intentional, given that the show deliberaly doesn't follow a starfleet (bridge/command) crew, but one character particularly.

    That you don't know anything substantial about the characters that have been in focus... I don't know, maybe you're missing the forest for the trees?

    Do you really know nothing substantial about Burnham, for example? Her relationship with Sarek, the reason she got into Starfleet, her feelings about her mutiny and her new role on Discovery, her feelings toward Georgiou or Tyler?

    Do you really know nothing about Tyler, Saru or Stamets? Did you really forgot it all already?

    I guess I know stuff about the characters, it's just nothing that makes them interesting to me. Burnham is just such a bland Mary-sue it's boring, Tyler is Voq and his background is as forged as the actor's appearance (he looks EXACTLY like seventy one dudes I see every day just walking up and down my street pig-2.gif ), Saru has a really dumb species design (almost as bad as Kobali) - Stamets and Tilly are the only characters I enjoy and both of them have very little true backstory but both of them acted sympathetically, like actual persons and Stamets got more likeable after he became perma-high.

    But yes, honestly, I forgot a lot - it just isn't as memorable to me as say The Orville which has a lot more moments staying with me. Discovery has almost nothing going for it making it stand out. In fact, if you are on Netflix, please watch the Discovery and The Expanse trailers back to back. Save for obvious franchise identifying cues like music and symbols you cannot tell the difference between the two in terms of cinematography, actors and the overall setting. To me, this is a huge problem.​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Burnham is just such a bland Mary-sue it's boring​​
    She is not a very good "Mary-sue". We have only seen her excel at deception and drama. While the universe often praises Burnham, the actions she actually performs appear far from extraordinary. This is what makes her boring and uninteresting.

  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,536 Arc User
    I liked it
    Well the MU is at least aware of an alternate universe based on the fact that they recovered the Defiant. But the Prime universe doesn't become aware of the MU until "Mirror, Mirror" which is in the future for Discovery. I was hoping they wouldn't go down the MU rabbit hole. I guess we'll find out in January :/

    Whilst I know there is a MU episode in the pipeline I, personally, would rather they left the MU alone (because I hate it in general) I have to admit that I'd be interested to learn the USS Defiant's fate.

    I mean, by the time of 'Mirror Mirror' TOS there was nothing to suggest that the Terran Empire's Constituion class Starships were any more technologically advanced than their 'Prime' universe' counterparts. So that does beg the question - what did happen to the (Constitution class) Defiant? Destroyed? Interphased again? Are the Mirror-Constitution class ships a lot older than their 'Prime' universe counterparts due to the Emprire reverse engineering the Defiant and then perhaps relying too much on it to the point where they reached a technological standstill for a time?
    angrytarg wrote: »
    @artan42 valid point, however in this case it's problematic in my opinion since usually you introduce characters, then put them in peril so one can care. Here it's the other way around. But I can ho into more depths later when I'm back home.

    My current feelgood-theory is that Discovery and the Klingorks all actually took place in a different quantum reality/universe and NOW they crossed into TOS prime. That explains nobody knowing about the project later, the humanfied Voq/Tyler joining prime TOS Klingons and the crew we follow as audience experiences prime from the "outside", visiting different places that shows us TOS worldbuilding which would explain the creators insistence on respecting canon which they haven't so far, as well as the anti-climactic end of the "War" at this point. If so, I begin to like this.

    I like this theory.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    I liked it
    redvenge wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Burnham is just such a bland Mary-sue it's boring​​
    She is not a very good "Mary-sue". We have only seen her excel at deception and drama. While the universe often praises Burnham, the actions she actually performs appear far from extraordinary. This is what makes her boring and uninteresting.

    I still have a thorough dislike for her due to her actions in the pilot. I was kind of hoping Kol would kill her.
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