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Anyone think Discovery has added to Sto's pop?

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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    Got a link to that? You should know by now that sources are demanded.
    Fuller soon brought on longtime collaborator Aaron Harberts and his writing partner Gretchen Berg as co-executive producers... Handed the reigns, they started to envision a slightly darker version of the usual Trek stories. There's a simple reason for that: Donald Trump.

    The Trump phenomenon was "front and center in our minds," Harberts admits when talking about the post-Fuller production process. "We felt like it would be interesting to really look at what's going on in the United States." He mentions that among the show's antagonists are an ultra-religious and violent Klingon faction whose rallying cry – "Remain Klingon" – is intentionally reminiscent of "Make America Great Again."

    "It's a call to isolationism," the showrunner says in reference to the slogan. "It's about racial purity, and it's about wanting to take care of yourself. And if anybody is reaching a hand out to help you, it's about smacking it away . . . That was pretty provocative for us, and it wasn't necessarily something that we wanted to completely lean into. But it was happening. We were hearing the stories."


    http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/features/inside-star-trek-discovery-the-franchises-answer-to-the-trump-era-w504563
    The allegory is that we really started working on the show in earnest around the time the election was happening,” showrunner Aaron Harberts says. “The Klingons are going to help us really look at certain sides of ourselves and our country. Isolationism is a big theme. Racial purity is a big theme. The Klingons are not the enemy, but they do have a different view on things. It raises big questions: Should we let people in? Do we want to change? There’s also the question of just because you reach your hand out to someone, do they have to take it? Sometimes, they don’t want to take it. It’s been interesting to see how the times have become more of a mirror than we even thought they were going to be.”

    “North Korea is in our thoughts as we finish the series,” fellow showrunner Gretchen J. Berg says. “What began as a commentary on our own divided nation — in terms of Trump supporters and non-Trump supporters — has blown out to North Korea and how we’re right on the brink. [The U.S. is] actually right at the place where Starfleet finds itself in episode one and we couldn’t have anticipated that happening. But how do you end conflict when both sides have such strong opinions?”

    The Toronto-based production is currently shooting its 13th episode, and producers note that President Donald Trump’s tense stand-off with North Korea has some reflections in the show as well.


    http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/07/star-trek-discovery-trump-political-divide/

    From actual interviews with the showrunners. Two separate interviews, one with Entertainment Weekly and one with Rolling Stone.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Speaking of Tyler, that fan theory about Voq and Ash Tyler being the same person? Not true. The guy playing Voq, Javid Iqbal, is new to TV but has a legit, if short, career as a theater actor.
    You mean the guy that blatantly said "he is not the Canadian actor that played the role of "Voq" in the CBS Star Trek: Discovery (2017) TV series."?

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm8856297/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

    Probably should look at Canadian actors if you want to debunk that internet fan theory, rather than dudes who play at comedy clubs near Chicago.
  • lazarxlazarx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I wasn't impressed by the premiere. Probably won't buy the DVDs either. If I see it on Netflix or network TV I'll watch it. That's about it. Not a fan of how CBS handled this relaunch of Trek. Seemed more a blatant money-grab by executives there than any artistic endeavor.

    Yeah...you said it. Feels like a blatant cash grab and nothing else...no real effort is put into it to make it good...only thing it has in common with star trek is the name...a attempt to turn Star Trek into generic sci fi the kiddies with small attention spans can oooh and aahhh over.

    Their latest episode just screams attention grab...beer pong...f-ing beer pong...it's a joke of a show.

    Are you under the impression that Roddenberry created the original series purely for artistic or charitable reasons? From day one...it's always been about the money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it was anything different. Your judgement was from watching half of the pilot if you didn't catch episode 2 on streaming.

    In my opinion it's getting ready to pass Deep Space 9 as the most interesting Trek series ever launched, mainly because they've left so many of Roddenberry's idiotic rules behind, but every now and then it nuances a shoutout to it's roots, even a nod to the Animated Series with a reference to Captain April.

    lazarx_2855.jpg
  • lazarxlazarx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    I don't know if Discovery has given a boost to STO. There was a lot of interest in getting those free uniforms during the promotion. It certainly does seem to have been a major help to Star Trek Timelines.
    lazarx_2855.jpg
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Are you under the impression that Roddenberry created the original series purely for artistic or charitable reasons? From day one...it's always been about the money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it was anything different. Your judgement was from watching half of the pilot if you didn't catch episode 2 on streaming.

    In my opinion it's getting ready to pass Deep Space 9 as the most interesting Trek series ever launched, mainly because they've left so many of Roddenberry's idiotic rules behind, but every now and then it nuances a shoutout to it's roots, even a nod to the Animated Series with a reference to Captain April.
    Passing which DS9?
    Duet and The Visitor DS9?
    Or most Ferengi episodes DS9?

    Because I could add another thing to the cons of DSC: ripoff of a previous episode in the very first season (TNG's Cause and Effect in that case), except this time, one character just happens to be conveniently immune to losing his memories of the time loops, and it just happens not to be a never-encountered powerful and hard to get rid of anomaly, but something that can be "easily" done with a device that probably will never be heard about again despite the potential.

    All that despite the show having a hefty budget, full support of the producing studio and supposedly great writers.

    Also, there is something about Mudd I'm not exactly pinpointing... hmm, something about his appearances in TRIBBLE compared to TOS... darn, that was a little something that bothered me...

    Oh right.

    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    Post edited by saurializard on
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.
    Ah, all is forgiven then, a slap to the wrist, a pinky promise, an ending where everyone laughs and it's all good, Mudd would be back to being a lovable, not really murderous, roguish guy with an awesome mustache no-one really knows who is let out by the goody-two-shoes protagonists, just to respect the continuity.


    ... Seriously?
    #TASforSTO
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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.
    Mudd was always a sociopath. In TOS he was a slave trader. In TAS he was peddling a mind-control drug.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.

    I figure that the artifact makes reality into a video game. If you want to see what happens when you press the self-destruct button, launch the nuclear missiles, or slaughter a ton of people, then just save the game. No consequences to any of your actions and you can still get the good ending.

    So whatever happens in the time loop stays in the time loop. Mudd can't be charged with murder for killing Lorca 50 times since Lorca is still alive. Mudd can only be charged with whatever crimes that he committed in reality not the thousands of deaths he caused in the time loop. So even if he killed millions of lives in time loops, but none in reality, then he would only be a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" and not a mass murderer.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    starkaos wrote: »
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.

    I figure that the artifact makes reality into a video game. If you want to see what happens when you press the self-destruct button, launch the nuclear missiles, or slaughter a ton of people, then just save the game. No consequences to any of your actions and you can still get the good ending.

    So whatever happens in the time loop stays in the time loop. Mudd can't be charged with murder for killing Lorca 50 times since Lorca is still alive. Mudd can only be charged with whatever crimes that he committed in reality not the thousands of deaths he caused in the time loop. So even if he killed millions of lives in time loops, but none in reality, then he would only be a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" and not a mass murderer.
    That's quite a dangerous way of thinking in a setting where time travel becomes less and less unusual, especially when none of the deaths are accidental or in self-defense, or even virtual since it's reality except on a loop. The actions still happened, heck Stamets knows it.

    Would it be the same if the crew's memories didn't reset at each loop? Or if Mudd had something that erased someone from existence?

    Remember the huge deal of Annorax wiping out entire species out of existence? Applying this logic, that'd mean he did nothing wrong. He didn't kill anyone since they never existed. Oh, maybe they did exist before he did something, but they were never there right now, so he didn't kill them.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.

    I figure that the artifact makes reality into a video game. If you want to see what happens when you press the self-destruct button, launch the nuclear missiles, or slaughter a ton of people, then just save the game. No consequences to any of your actions and you can still get the good ending.

    So whatever happens in the time loop stays in the time loop. Mudd can't be charged with murder for killing Lorca 50 times since Lorca is still alive. Mudd can only be charged with whatever crimes that he committed in reality not the thousands of deaths he caused in the time loop. So even if he killed millions of lives in time loops, but none in reality, then he would only be a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" and not a mass murderer.
    That's quite a dangerous way of thinking in a setting where time travel becomes less and less unusual, especially when none of the deaths are accidental or in self-defense, or even virtual since it's reality except on a loop. The actions still happened, heck Stamets knows it.

    Would it be the same if the crew's memories didn't reset at each loop? Or if Mudd had something that erased someone from existence?

    Remember the huge deal of Annorax wiping out entire species out of existence? Applying this logic, that'd mean he did nothing wrong. He didn't kill anyone since they never existed. Oh, maybe they did exist before he did something, but they were never there right now, so he didn't kill them.

    In the case of the time loop, the same people enter the loop and the same people exit the loop. If no one is harmed in the last iteration of the time loop and don't remember anything, then any actions in the time loop might as well not have happened. So it is different from the Annorax wiping out entire species. As far as Stamets knowing about it doesn't matter. Lorca can't go to the Federation Courts and claim that Mudd should be jailed for killing him 50 times when he didn't experience those deaths. A case could be made for Burnham since she seemed to recall information from previous time loop iterations so she might recall getting killed by Mudd. Stamets could easily make a case since he remembered everything. So if Mudd punished and killed Stamets, then while Mudd wouldn't be charged with murder, he could be charged with emotional distress.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.
    I figure that the artifact makes reality into a video game. If you want to see what happens when you press the self-destruct button, launch the nuclear missiles, or slaughter a ton of people, then just save the game. No consequences to any of your actions and you can still get the good ending.

    So whatever happens in the time loop stays in the time loop. Mudd can't be charged with murder for killing Lorca 50 times since Lorca is still alive. Mudd can only be charged with whatever crimes that he committed in reality not the thousands of deaths he caused in the time loop. So even if he killed millions of lives in time loops, but none in reality, then he would only be a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" and not a mass murderer.
    That's quite a dangerous way of thinking in a setting where time travel becomes less and less unusual, especially when none of the deaths are accidental or in self-defense, or even virtual since it's reality except on a loop. The actions still happened, heck Stamets knows it.

    Would it be the same if the crew's memories didn't reset at each loop? Or if Mudd had something that erased someone from existence?

    Remember the huge deal of Annorax wiping out entire species out of existence? Applying this logic, that'd mean he did nothing wrong. He didn't kill anyone since they never existed. Oh, maybe they did exist before he did something, but they were never there right now, so he didn't kill them.
    Is it? Motives matter. Annorax had no problem whatsoever with the idea of leaving those he'd erased to stay dead. Mudd didn't actually plan to kill people, except maybe Lorca...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,768 Arc User
    STO left its pop in the fridge again and it's taking up space.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.
    You realize, of course, that the first time we met Harcourt Fenton Mudd in TOS, he was selling drug-addicted sex slaves to frontier miners.

    The second time, he attempted to use a force of alien robots to kidnap the entire crew of a Constitution-class starship, abandon them on the world where he found the robots, and start roaming the galaxy in one of Starfleet's foremost battle craft.

    I'm not seeing his actions here as being all that different from his established character. He is a sociopath, and always has been. He can be a charming sociopath, but "sociopath" is still the important part of that phrase.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    Mudd was always a sociopath. In TOS he was a slave trader. In TAS he was peddling a mind-control drug.
    jonsills wrote: »
    I'm not seeing his actions here as being all that different from his established character. He is a sociopath, and always has been. He can be a charming sociopath, but "sociopath" is still the important part of that phrase.
    Mudd is a bully and a coward. That is a far cry from a guy who tortures people because he can. The guy who beats you up and takes your lunch money is not necessarily butchering the neighborhood pets "because he can".

    This interpretation of Mudd is darker and grimmer than the TOS/TAS version. It was a stated goal of the showrunners to make this show "the darkest Trek yet". Not sure how you can't see this, since they worked hard to make it a reality.

    There is nothing wrong with that. It's not to my taste, but there is an audience for this type of Trek. I've seen several articles praising Star Trek: Discovery for abandoning the "unrealistic perception of humans in space". "Humans will never overcome greed, hatred or the need to murder and Trek is better for abandoning those concepts". You see posters praising these changes on this forum, in many of these threads.
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    How is this guy simply referred to a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" ten years later after all he's done so far in Discovery?! He should be considered a Klingon-affiliated spy, mass murderer, temporal war criminal while having his face known by everyone in Starfleet with orders to shoot to kill if necessary by the time of TOS.
    I'm pretty sure the episode title explains that. He'd found an artifact so powerful that he'd started doing crazy stuff trying to figure out what to do with it.
    I figure that the artifact makes reality into a video game. If you want to see what happens when you press the self-destruct button, launch the nuclear missiles, or slaughter a ton of people, then just save the game. No consequences to any of your actions and you can still get the good ending.

    So whatever happens in the time loop stays in the time loop. Mudd can't be charged with murder for killing Lorca 50 times since Lorca is still alive. Mudd can only be charged with whatever crimes that he committed in reality not the thousands of deaths he caused in the time loop. So even if he killed millions of lives in time loops, but none in reality, then he would only be a "conman, swindler, liar, smuggler" and not a mass murderer.
    That's quite a dangerous way of thinking in a setting where time travel becomes less and less unusual, especially when none of the deaths are accidental or in self-defense, or even virtual since it's reality except on a loop. The actions still happened, heck Stamets knows it.

    Would it be the same if the crew's memories didn't reset at each loop? Or if Mudd had something that erased someone from existence?

    Remember the huge deal of Annorax wiping out entire species out of existence? Applying this logic, that'd mean he did nothing wrong. He didn't kill anyone since they never existed. Oh, maybe they did exist before he did something, but they were never there right now, so he didn't kill them.
    Is it? Motives matter. Annorax had no problem whatsoever with the idea of leaving those he'd erased to stay dead. Mudd didn't actually plan to kill people, except maybe Lorca...
    Then, why did he do it and why did he become bored (not disgusted, bored) of that, heck why did he use some cruel ways to kill people as opposed to just shoot them with a conventional phaser? He can rewind time at will. Heck, he said he robbed a bank on Betazed (and I doubt Betazoids would choose people with weak telepathy to guard it).

    Also, "motives matter", indeed. And Mudd's goal by taking Discovery and its crew to the Klingons was to make the Federation lose the war. I'm pretty sure a lot more people than just the Discovery would die in the process.
    #TASforSTO
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.

    Is suspect that he's getting bored with it might actually suggest he's not a crazy socio- or psycopath.

    A real serial killer doesn't get bored. He needs more, he needs his next fix in killing. he will never stop unless stopped by someone else.

    Mudd is basically replaying a video game in different ways and figuring out all the awesome kill animations, but in the end, he's bored by that and just wants to get to the end of the game.

    He's very well aware that nothing he does is of consequence until he stops the time loop. Just like Bill Murray's character isn't actually suicidal in Groundhog Day when he kills himself in one of the loops, Mudd isn't actually a murderous killer.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Oh, I missed this one...sorry, I don't have time to read 3 pages... but I think Discovery may be bringing people who have played before back (you know, the ones who already have accounts). Not sure about brand new players, yet.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    As for this "ripping off" a TNG episode - well, I've referred to this story before, but this is the first time I've found a pdf online. It's worth a read on its own merits, too.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    redvenge wrote: »
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.

    Is suspect that he's getting bored with it might actually suggest he's not a crazy socio- or psycopath.

    A real serial killer doesn't get bored. He needs more, he needs his next fix in killing. he will never stop unless stopped by someone else.

    Mudd is basically replaying a video game in different ways and figuring out all the awesome kill animations, but in the end, he's bored by that and just wants to get to the end of the game.

    He's very well aware that nothing he does is of consequence until he stops the time loop. Just like Bill Murray's character isn't actually suicidal in Groundhog Day when he kills himself in one of the loops, Mudd isn't actually a murderous killer.

    from what I've read on the Internetz, though, serial killers get increasingly extreme Because they get bored. Now that could be a case of 99% of what's on the net is B.S., (and the other 1% are lies), but it's at least consistent enough to be plausible. What they don't do is get LESS extreme.

    So being a Serial Killer is an addiction? If so, then they must build up a 'tolerance' and have to resort to extreme methods to get the whatever reaction that causes them to keep killing.

    Although in Mudd's and Lorca's case, it is fulfilling a revenge fantasy instead of an addiction.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    redvenge wrote: »
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.

    Is suspect that he's getting bored with it might actually suggest he's not a crazy socio- or psycopath.

    A real serial killer doesn't get bored. He needs more, he needs his next fix in killing. he will never stop unless stopped by someone else.

    Mudd is basically replaying a video game in different ways and figuring out all the awesome kill animations, but in the end, he's bored by that and just wants to get to the end of the game.

    He's very well aware that nothing he does is of consequence until he stops the time loop. Just like Bill Murray's character isn't actually suicidal in Groundhog Day when he kills himself in one of the loops, Mudd isn't actually a murderous killer.

    from what I've read on the Internetz, though, serial killers get increasingly extreme Because they get bored. Now that could be a case of 99% of what's on the net is B.S., (and the other 1% are lies), but it's at least consistent enough to be plausible. What they don't do is get LESS extreme.
    But he didn't get bored and tried to do something more extreme. He simply stopped doing it. On his last "playthrough" no one died, even, and he didn't seem bothered by that. He got his revenge fantasy fulfilled and in the end, that was it.

    He certainly isn't a good guy and lack of empathy is definitely a given (we already knew this from his time in Klingon prison), he just isn't actually someone that has a need to murder. Hence, he's not a crazy psychopath.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    redvenge wrote: »
    ... Seriously?
    The premise is "Mudd is totally cool murdering people because they should come back as long as this loop is not the last loop". What's weird is he becomes bored with murdering people. Any way you look at it, Mudd is fairly sociopathic in this episode. He is blatantly indifferent to the horrific suffering he causes. It's a very grim and dark interpretation of Mudd. Which is why it fits in so nicely with the rest of Star Trek: Discovery.

    Is suspect that he's getting bored with it might actually suggest he's not a crazy socio- or psycopath.

    A real serial killer doesn't get bored. He needs more, he needs his next fix in killing. he will never stop unless stopped by someone else.

    Mudd is basically replaying a video game in different ways and figuring out all the awesome kill animations, but in the end, he's bored by that and just wants to get to the end of the game.

    He's very well aware that nothing he does is of consequence until he stops the time loop. Just like Bill Murray's character isn't actually suicidal in Groundhog Day when he kills himself in one of the loops, Mudd isn't actually a murderous killer.

    from what I've read on the Internetz, though, serial killers get increasingly extreme Because they get bored. Now that could be a case of 99% of what's on the net is B.S., (and the other 1% are lies), but it's at least consistent enough to be plausible. What they don't do is get LESS extreme.
    But he didn't get bored and tried to do something more extreme. He simply stopped doing it. On his last "playthrough" no one died, even, and he didn't seem bothered by that. He got his revenge fantasy fulfilled and in the end, that was it.

    He certainly isn't a good guy and lack of empathy is definitely a given (we already knew this from his time in Klingon prison), he just isn't actually someone that has a need to murder. Hence, he's not a crazy psychopath.

    Which is why Mudd is different from a Serial Killer. He is just someone fulfilling his revenge fantasies on the same person. Although if he succeeded in selling Discovery to the Klingons, then Lorca dying from weaponized dark matter and the other methods that Mudd used to kill the crew would be the more humane option.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    But he didn't get bored and tried to do something more extreme. He simply stopped doing it. On his last "playthrough" no one died, even, and he didn't seem bothered by that. He got his revenge fantasy fulfilled and in the end, that was it.

    He certainly isn't a good guy and lack of empathy is definitely a given (we already knew this from his time in Klingon prison), he just isn't actually someone that has a need to murder. Hence, he's not a crazy psychopath.
    Did you miss the part where he wanted to leave everyone dead and the only reason he reset the time loop again was because Burnham convinced him she was a good bargaining chip? Mudd was perfectly fine leaving anyone and everyone on the Discovery permanently dead.

    As far as I can tell, Lorca's obviously fake appeal to Mudd's "humanity" to spare his crew is the only reason Mudd did not blow up the Discovery on the last loop. Even then, Mudd did it more out of "I don't care" than any actual concern for the crew of Discovery. That whole scene seemed out of character for the Mudd we saw for the whole episode, culminating in his sloppiness that proves to be his undoing. The end of the episode was sloppy and forced.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    He was fine with everyone being dead, but he didn't have any emotional need for it. He just doesn't care about other people.
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