C-Store T6 Ship introduction are either at T5 prices the first Weekend 2500, 5000, 10000) unless there is a 20% Ship Sale for that Weekend, then 2400, 4800, 9600. As the sun rises everyday.
Did that happen with the Allied Flight-Deck Assault Cruisers? I had thought they'd stopped doing that, which is why I was pleasantly surprised to find out it was back for these.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Well getting aggro and 60% of the incomming damage while showing numbers beteen 100-200 per shot (in your YT movie) only tells me that you must have been in a very weak group.
If you would have had a real DPS-er beside you in the run, doing like 200x more DPS, running damage shots over 20000 per shot, the real-DPS would get the aggro.
Every real DPS-er who has done PUG runs with others doing far less DPS know this and will agree with me. Because they evaluatie combat logs and statistics. You can evn put thread+ consuiles on a weak schip still the High DPS-er will get most of the aggro and incomming damage.
For sure you can tank nicely in these new ships, And it will take ages till things get killed on elite levels. Try DGE in a team with ships like you all will survive but dont get it done before the timer runs out.
Sigh... look...the point wasn't about DPS... Was just a little fun vid that had to do with my thread. I would suggest getting yourself a Command version and posting your own video with your dps build..until then... all I hear is blah blah your dps sucks, doesn't matter what you were doing in the vid, I don't even own one of these ships, yadda yadda. Just saying... If you want to talk meta then go do it...
My responses are not about you or about what i think about you in your Video or how much DPS you don't do. Thats is not my message. I like your video, and every one of course can play like they want or like what they want for sure. So please dont take things personal. So please dont take things personal. I am not trying to attack you, so no need to be defensive or try to tank me ;-)
My point is that although these new ships are great for tanking and in being very defensive, there are still other better ships in game to run PVE's (like the one PVE in your YT movie). What i meant in my first response is that with just tanking without doing much damage someone cannot succeed in various PVE's on Elite level, and for sure not in the PVE DGE because you have to kill 9 boss ships within a given time frame. Also with a DPS setup these new ships will not be better then current ships.
Maybe if cryptic desides to make completely different PVE's with completely different goals (so other dan killing X ships in T time) like for example survive as long as possible (then tanking would be defenitly the main thing to spec for), then i would caal these ships great for that purpose.
So the statement this topic starts with saying "New Miracle Ship def worth it!!" i dare to challenge.
For the Allied Flight Deck Assault Crusiers they ran a 20% Ship Sale that Weekend.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I have to agree these ships would be more appealing if we had more content that focused on other aspects to complete the content. I could see these being more appealing if we had content that killing things fast actually was a hindrance, or that out living a powerful single target might make tanking built ships more appealing.
I have to agree these ships would be more appealing if we had more content that focused on other aspects to complete the content. I could see these being more appealing if we had content that killing things fast actually was a hindrance, or that out living a powerful single target might make tanking built ships more appealing.
However another problem is players mindsets. There have been well done missions that require teamwork and more than DPS, and a majority of the community complain about them, saying "ohhhh, i can do this red alert faster for similar awards".
Now, alot of people would say "just increase the rewards". I disgree, sometimes, a challenging mission should be its own award, and not completing missions in 2 - 5 mins.
These miracle worker ships are fine ships. Just because they have miracle worker boff stations doesnt mean they are any less capable than some of the perceived best ships in the game. They can be just as science like, tactical, or other build type as any other ship.
It is always the Captain that makes the ship, not the ship herself.
I have to agree these ships would be more appealing if we had more content that focused on other aspects to complete the content. I could see these being more appealing if we had content that killing things fast actually was a hindrance, or that out living a powerful single target might make tanking built ships more appealing.
However another problem is players mindsets. There have been well done missions that require teamwork and more than DPS, and a majority of the community complain about them, saying "ohhhh, i can do this red alert faster for similar awards".
Now, alot of people would say "just increase the rewards". I disgree, sometimes, a challenging mission should be its own award, and not completing missions in 2 - 5 mins.
These miracle worker ships are fine ships. Just because they have miracle worker boff stations doesnt mean they are any less capable than some of the perceived best ships in the game. They can be just as science like, tactical, or other build type as any other ship.
It is always the Captain that makes the ship, not the ship herself.
Well it is the mindset of the players, but also the fact that the reward scheme that is used for rewarding completing the stfs to blame equally. The uniform reward system is quite abit to blame for the playerbase going to a time-reward ratio mindset, as that is about all you get out of doing that content is the generic mark/dil rewards. In other games you have unique an varied rewards that are linked to different sets of content to give a added reward that can appeal to players to do content that is harder or takes longer.
Issue is that challenge as a reward is well shallow for many players, and something that not many players find appealing as a reward. How many players find only the challenge of the content to be enough of a reward to do that content, and are they large enough to populate that content reliably. Content should alway have rewards that appeal to as large of a group of players as possible, so that you can draw from larger groups, or you create dead content basically.
Gotta disagree that it is always the captain that makes the ship, as than the layouts of the ship would have no importance, or use. The captain matters the most when you are dealing with two ships that are stat/layout/gear-wise pretty much equal, and then the player/captain's skill an ability is the deciding factor. In the same way different ships can prop up a bad/inexperienced captain via having certain stats/boff/console layouts that suit their experience levels.
I have to agree these ships would be more appealing if we had more content that focused on other aspects to complete the content. I could see these being more appealing if we had content that killing things fast actually was a hindrance, or that out living a powerful single target might make tanking built ships more appealing.
However another problem is players mindsets. There have been well done missions that require teamwork and more than DPS, and a majority of the community complain about them, saying "ohhhh, i can do this red alert faster for similar awards".
Now, alot of people would say "just increase the rewards". I disgree, sometimes, a challenging mission should be its own award, and not completing missions in 2 - 5 mins.
These miracle worker ships are fine ships. Just because they have miracle worker boff stations doesnt mean they are any less capable than some of the perceived best ships in the game. They can be just as science like, tactical, or other build type as any other ship.
It is always the Captain that makes the ship, not the ship herself.
Its the captain PLUS the ship, NOT the captain makes the ship. Good captain bad ship will always loose from good captain good ship.
And NO they can not outperform current existing ships if setup is done by person who knows how to min/max ships.
Who disagrees feel free to convince with their better then existing ships builds and captain+ship setups
Now, alot of people would say "just increase the rewards". I disgree, sometimes, a challenging mission should be its own award, and not completing missions in 2 - 5 mins.
If you want challenge play missions in a shuttle or T1 ship with MK1 weapons. You are free to do so. You wil not need the new miracle ships for its. (btw. what is actualy the miracle about those miracle ships?)
I have to agree these ships would be more appealing if we had more content that focused on other aspects to complete the content. I could see these being more appealing if we had content that killing things fast actually was a hindrance, or that out living a powerful single target might make tanking built ships more appealing.
Here you go. This is what i was saying. 99% of the game is about killing enemys, so logicaly min/maxing DPS is a much favoured path to go. Saying this already for years, there are hardly mission where e.g. good tanking or healing is the main target to achieve and pays off with nice rewards.
Don't see many people now favouring these new miracle ships, unless to level them to get the space traits included or out of sheer curiosity.
So far I have mixed feelings. 12th console is nice, but these ships are so incredibly slow, you kinda need at least 1 console with RCS in it. Even if I can pump up my stationary, unbuffed turn-rate to 11.2 deg/sec (which is more than some of my Escorts have), it still turns dismally sluggishly. After a while, the slowness begins to irritate. I know, they're cruisers; but still.
Though I will add that the amount of Dps/damage-output needed to complete most content in sto is quite low comparatively to what some players can put out. I mean It is one reason i stopped min-maxing as it feels pointless in the end, why bring a nuke to a conflict when in the end all you need is a machine-gun, since the remaining difference in damage-output is pretty much meaningless fluff damage. If anything I find running with 10-20k damage builds an groups much more entertaining, and enjoyable as actually the content feels more engaging an interesting.
It is in this mindset that the many other ships feel like they are built to engage in, as in a dps-output range of 20-30k that such a ship could still be quite effective.
I really like those ships. Had they dropped the universal console slot in favor of a hangar bay (at least for the Tac one), they might have made me replace my Vengeance. The randomized Miracle Worker ability system is fast and fun (unlike the exceedingly slow to build Command abilities) and could count as discount but still useful and fun (like the Barclay maneuver) abilities.
Not much a fan of the ships' consoles, though, with the exception of the Salvage Pods one because I have this fun mental image of my ship covered in ill-fitting hull parts to keep itself flying without many breaches when I use it.
I'll wait... I bought the pilot escort and the kdf intel battlecruiser and I'm not in the mood to buy another gimmick ship thats likely an evolutionary dead end, or worse, nerf bait.
Eh ill pass on them. I just think they are fugly as can be... But thats just me, glad people are enjoying them though.
I see where you are coming from. I don't like the design of any of the three factions that much either.
However, I'd like to commend the design for it. Especially Fed side, there is a tendency for ships (cruisers especially) to look very similar to each other. Maybe on one ship the saucer is a bit broader, on the other a bit longer, there's slight differences in the nacelles, but if you don't put them next to each other, you can easily confuse some different ships. Making them distinct while still keeping the general feel is a good idea. Even if I don't like the results.
Also, they are not pancakes. As long as these oversized flat ships are in game, everything else is a beauty of design.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
The only thing these ships made me think about was "And people say Discovery is ugly?".
The romulan ones look okay in my book, but especially the klingon ones are the ugliest things ever made by engineers. The Starfleet ones are somewhere in between. They have somewhat sexy nacelles, but that's all I can say.
The new spec is fine, but I wait for future starships that support it.
And I wait for Discovery-ships. With Intel-spec please.
Not much a fan of the ships' consoles, though, with the exception of the Salvage Pods one because I have this fun mental image of my ship covered in ill-fitting hull parts to keep itself flying without many breaches when I use it.
I hear you on this one. I went ahead and splurged (for me) and bought the Fed three pack, because I wanted the Tucker, but the the Daystrom console. Now I wish I'd just gotten the Tactical and saved a few bucks. The Daystrom console is ok, but the M6 Computer I already owned is better. Oh well, I can always use Admiralty cards I guess...
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Oh well, I can always use Admiralty cards I guess...
Unfortunately, two of the three have a rather situational special ability (not a fan of +20 to strongest and one more) so they mostly come in with their numbers.
Post edited by xyquarze on
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
We ran our MW ships earlier and the DPS was perfectly fine for builds that we are still playing with using the MW bridge manuals. None of us are even tier 3 miracle worker yet but ran the spec. For a slammed together build it already has pretty decent potential. I haven't even put the timeline stab on it yet bc the firing rate is insane already with the abilities.
I think they look more pleasing than the Discovery.
That's in the eye of the beholder. I find the Discovery pretty beautiful.
I actually liked the 2016 model we saw. Or give the official one shorter engine pods, and I'd be ok o.o
I find the proportions spot on. There is a certain late-23rd-century design that also has a large hull, a proportionally small saucer and very long nacelles, and nobody is bashing that one.
Maybe because it is out of proportion? One small circle connected to a large triangle and extra long nacelle's, it just looks odd imo.
I say it again. The Excelsior is somewhat unproportional too and nobody aside from Scotty himself openly bashed it. It was a bold design back then, and so is Discovery today.
Crossfield-class perfectly blends in with the Scryer-class (I know that one's not canon, but still) the same way as the Daedalus-class carried over into the Olympic-class over a century later. And yet, even though it still fits in with the already somewhat odd design-philosophies of Starfleet, Discovery gets bashed left and right. Is that fair? No.
Comments
Did that happen with the Allied Flight-Deck Assault Cruisers? I had thought they'd stopped doing that, which is why I was pleasantly surprised to find out it was back for these.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
My responses are not about you or about what i think about you in your Video or how much DPS you don't do. Thats is not my message. I like your video, and every one of course can play like they want or like what they want for sure. So please dont take things personal. So please dont take things personal. I am not trying to attack you, so no need to be defensive or try to tank me ;-)
My point is that although these new ships are great for tanking and in being very defensive, there are still other better ships in game to run PVE's (like the one PVE in your YT movie). What i meant in my first response is that with just tanking without doing much damage someone cannot succeed in various PVE's on Elite level, and for sure not in the PVE DGE because you have to kill 9 boss ships within a given time frame. Also with a DPS setup these new ships will not be better then current ships.
Maybe if cryptic desides to make completely different PVE's with completely different goals (so other dan killing X ships in T time) like for example survive as long as possible (then tanking would be defenitly the main thing to spec for), then i would caal these ships great for that purpose.
So the statement this topic starts with saying "New Miracle Ship def worth it!!" i dare to challenge.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
However another problem is players mindsets. There have been well done missions that require teamwork and more than DPS, and a majority of the community complain about them, saying "ohhhh, i can do this red alert faster for similar awards".
Now, alot of people would say "just increase the rewards". I disgree, sometimes, a challenging mission should be its own award, and not completing missions in 2 - 5 mins.
These miracle worker ships are fine ships. Just because they have miracle worker boff stations doesnt mean they are any less capable than some of the perceived best ships in the game. They can be just as science like, tactical, or other build type as any other ship.
It is always the Captain that makes the ship, not the ship herself.
Well it is the mindset of the players, but also the fact that the reward scheme that is used for rewarding completing the stfs to blame equally. The uniform reward system is quite abit to blame for the playerbase going to a time-reward ratio mindset, as that is about all you get out of doing that content is the generic mark/dil rewards. In other games you have unique an varied rewards that are linked to different sets of content to give a added reward that can appeal to players to do content that is harder or takes longer.
Issue is that challenge as a reward is well shallow for many players, and something that not many players find appealing as a reward. How many players find only the challenge of the content to be enough of a reward to do that content, and are they large enough to populate that content reliably. Content should alway have rewards that appeal to as large of a group of players as possible, so that you can draw from larger groups, or you create dead content basically.
Gotta disagree that it is always the captain that makes the ship, as than the layouts of the ship would have no importance, or use. The captain matters the most when you are dealing with two ships that are stat/layout/gear-wise pretty much equal, and then the player/captain's skill an ability is the deciding factor. In the same way different ships can prop up a bad/inexperienced captain via having certain stats/boff/console layouts that suit their experience levels.
Its the captain PLUS the ship, NOT the captain makes the ship. Good captain bad ship will always loose from good captain good ship.
And NO they can not outperform current existing ships if setup is done by person who knows how to min/max ships.
Who disagrees feel free to convince with their better then existing ships builds and captain+ship setups
Here you go. This is what i was saying. 99% of the game is about killing enemys, so logicaly min/maxing DPS is a much favoured path to go. Saying this already for years, there are hardly mission where e.g. good tanking or healing is the main target to achieve and pays off with nice rewards.
Don't see many people now favouring these new miracle ships, unless to level them to get the space traits included or out of sheer curiosity.
It is in this mindset that the many other ships feel like they are built to engage in, as in a dps-output range of 20-30k that such a ship could still be quite effective.
Not much a fan of the ships' consoles, though, with the exception of the Salvage Pods one because I have this fun mental image of my ship covered in ill-fitting hull parts to keep itself flying without many breaches when I use it.
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I see where you are coming from. I don't like the design of any of the three factions that much either.
However, I'd like to commend the design for it. Especially Fed side, there is a tendency for ships (cruisers especially) to look very similar to each other. Maybe on one ship the saucer is a bit broader, on the other a bit longer, there's slight differences in the nacelles, but if you don't put them next to each other, you can easily confuse some different ships. Making them distinct while still keeping the general feel is a good idea. Even if I don't like the results.
Also, they are not pancakes. As long as these oversized flat ships are in game, everything else is a beauty of design.
The romulan ones look okay in my book, but especially the klingon ones are the ugliest things ever made by engineers. The Starfleet ones are somewhere in between. They have somewhat sexy nacelles, but that's all I can say.
The new spec is fine, but I wait for future starships that support it.
And I wait for Discovery-ships. With Intel-spec please.
That's in the eye of the beholder. I find the Discovery pretty beautiful.
I hear you on this one. I went ahead and splurged (for me) and bought the Fed three pack, because I wanted the Tucker, but the the Daystrom console. Now I wish I'd just gotten the Tactical and saved a few bucks. The Daystrom console is ok, but the M6 Computer I already owned is better. Oh well, I can always use Admiralty cards I guess...
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Love the one I got, catch ya on Secter, Lex.
I actually liked the 2016 model we saw. Or give the official one shorter engine pods, and I'd be ok o.o
Unfortunately, two of the three have a rather situational special ability (not a fan of +20 to strongest and one more) so they mostly come in with their numbers.
I find the proportions spot on. There is a certain late-23rd-century design that also has a large hull, a proportionally small saucer and very long nacelles, and nobody is bashing that one.
If memory serves I didn't bash anything or anyone. If anything I'm trying to take some of the bashing away from a ship that doesn't deserve it.
Which is why I kinda compared it to the Excelsior in my previous post. People leave Excelsior alone, so why can't they leave Discovery alone?
I say it again. The Excelsior is somewhat unproportional too and nobody aside from Scotty himself openly bashed it. It was a bold design back then, and so is Discovery today.
Crossfield-class perfectly blends in with the Scryer-class (I know that one's not canon, but still) the same way as the Daedalus-class carried over into the Olympic-class over a century later. And yet, even though it still fits in with the already somewhat odd design-philosophies of Starfleet, Discovery gets bashed left and right. Is that fair? No.