You can't really say it is redundant for everyone though. I can see this tree as helpful for players who can't afford T6 ships or items that keep them alive for example. It can be easy to forget how hard it is for budget/casual players to survive in even a Red Alert.
But it is there for everyone to grind that spec out, irregardless if they like it or plan to use it. Excuse me Eli but if there's a thing for everyone to deal with irregardless of their opinion about said thing, maybe there is something wrong if it also fails to deliver certain level of appeal to a broader audience. An audience that can't avoid it....
The argument of " if you don't like, don't use it" generally only works when you can avoid the thing, but no one is going to avoid dealing with MW one way or the other.
And at the end, when all is done, good chunk of the spec that you have to work on anyway is locked behind a paywall.
Ultimately thou, the spec itself isn't really an issue to be honest, its the timing. At this moment i don't think STO is in a shape for a spec that lacks broader appeal and has certain aspect of a cash grab to it. Core features needs fixin and some of them are essential, in the same time the game needs huge QoL improvements to move forward, but that's not what we gonna get is it? What we gonna get is a spec that isn't for everyone!
Quite frankly there is a plenty of wrong with that and very little positives to balance it out
But it is there for everyone to grind that spec out, irregardless if they like it or plan to use it. Excuse me Eli but if there's a thing for everyone to deal with irregardless of their opinion about said thing, maybe there is something wrong if it also fails to deliver certain level of appeal to a broader audience. An audience that can't avoid it....
The argument of " if you don't like, don't use it" generally only works when you can avoid the thing, but no one is going to avoid dealing with MW one way or the other.
What am I missing here? You're not required to put a single point in it. I for example do not enjoy STO ground, so I have 0 points dedicated to the Commando spec. You can most definitely "avoid the thing".
Edit: There is also an added benefit to skipping specs you don't use: You get to save up spec points for spec trees you'll eventually want. I for example have more than enough to fill this tree up on day one.
Ultimately thou, the spec itself isn't really an issue to be honest, its the timing.
I will agree with this. Yes there are a bunch of other stuff I'd rather see worked on first (like the lingering queue issue). However as I understand it, those are handled by different teams in Cryptic.
At this moment i don't think STO is in a shape for a spec that lacks broader appeal and has certain aspect of a cash grab to it.
What's the cash grab? Spec points are free. If you are referring to the ships that come with it, then you don't really need to buy them if you don't want them either. It's a matter of telling the devs what you want through your wallet (something Borticus famously dared us to do).
Core features needs fixin and some of them are essential, in the same time the game needs huge QoL improvements to move forward, but that's not what we gonna get is it? What we gonna get is a spec that isn't for everyone!
None of the current specs are for everyone either to be fair. It'll however fit to a niche of players, just like how (for example) Command fits to a small niche of players. It's not an overly bad thing IMO.
How can you end a thing that doesn't exist? I mean, wouldn't there first have to BE support before you could PULL support?
The mystifying thing to me, is that they got rid of exploration clusters (which lots of PvE players used), but retained PvP at all when the development staff from the lead develoepr on down can't make it work in a way that hasn't resulted in negative population growth.
Once they decided not to support it (2011 or so) it should've been removed, entirely, including from the advertising...
because it is not, and never will be, supported.
Likewise, they probably should have acted on Geko's statement of wishing they'd never done the Klingons-because KDF is just behind PvP in terms of non-support on the developer end. you're more likely to get new mechanics on your Epohh friend, than KDF is to get a consistent bugfix.
There are only two explanations for the continuing existence of PvP in STO:
1. Mechanical-removing it could do something bad with the game engine and would cost a lot of coding time.
2. non-mechanical: Geko needs someone to be the convenient scapegoat when they run the nerf cycle, because it's rude to outright SAY you're nerfing a set so you can sell the next one.
The loos of support for PvP came happened around 2013/14. When the original developer of the pvp system left Cryptic, and didn't leave any information in his work. He just left the coding.
Other devs have attempted to work on the pvp system. They have all left Cryptic under amicable conditions.
What am I missing here? You're not required to put a single point in it. I for example do not enjoy STO ground, so I have 0 points dedicated to the Commando spec. You can most definitely "avoid the thing".
Edit: There is also an added benefit to skipping specs you don't use: You get to save up spec points for spec trees you'll eventually want. I for example have more than enough to fill this tree up on day one.
You are missing the fact that those points needs to be earned no matter what you do with them, which translates to 86k dil lost in the process. A small thing perhaps, but inconvenience and bother nonetheless.
I for one prefer the small trickle of dil over 30 spec point that i might use somewhere deep in 2018 on a spec that i actually like or want to play with. A lot can happen in that time
What's the cash grab? Spec points are free. If you are referring to the ships that come with it, then you don't really need to buy them if you don't want them either. It's a matter of telling the devs what you want through your wallet (something Borticus famously dared us to do).
Again boils down to a timing. Either the spec was necessary and needed to be released now and in that case having a portion of it behind paywall is not a good thing, or the spec wasn't necessary at all and in such it begs the question about timing all over again.
Say Eli wouldn't you rather see the Temp spec/entrophy consumption fixed over the devs working on a niche spec added to a game that has more pressing concerns? What message it sends "here is the MW because we had nothing better to do", except that they actually got a better stuff to do perhaps?
Btw you actually believed what Borticus said?
None of the current specs are for everyone either to be fair. It'll however fit to a niche of players, just like how (for example) Command fits to a small niche of players. It's not an overly bad thing IMO.
But none of those specs are really bound to content as the MW is going to be. A torp boat with CF is a torp boat with CF no matter where you end. A boat with MW primary in a content where you don't really need any of that and the benefits are almost non-existent because of the very lack of need? There is somehow a difference between a niche thing and lets say better heals just for the sake of better heals despite the lack of need for them.
Imho, lot of people (including me) might very well end up with no chance to actually really benchmark the MW, because of the accessibility of certain content (which is nothing done about) and utter redundancy of the MW in a content that is normally available to a broader playerbase.
I'm willing to concede that there might be nothing wrong with the MW itself, but my God the timing is just off-putting
“You are missing the fact that those points needs to be earned no matter what you do with them, which translates to 86k dil lost in the process. A small thing perhaps, but inconvenience and bother nonetheless.”
I am not following what you mean about lost dill? I have well over 30 spare points which is completely unrelated to dill. On day 1 like all the other new specs I will just max it out right away and it will have zero impact on my dill. I don’t think a new spec has every translated to 86k dil lost for me.
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But it is there for everyone to grind that spec out, irregardless if they like it or plan to use it. Excuse me Eli but if there's a thing for everyone to deal with irregardless of their opinion about said thing, maybe there is something wrong if it also fails to deliver certain level of appeal to a broader audience. An audience that can't avoid it....
The argument of " if you don't like, don't use it" generally only works when you can avoid the thing, but no one is going to avoid dealing with MW one way or the other.
And at the end, when all is done, good chunk of the spec that you have to work on anyway is locked behind a paywall.
Ultimately thou, the spec itself isn't really an issue to be honest, its the timing. At this moment i don't think STO is in a shape for a spec that lacks broader appeal and has certain aspect of a cash grab to it. Core features needs fixin and some of them are essential, in the same time the game needs huge QoL improvements to move forward, but that's not what we gonna get is it? What we gonna get is a spec that isn't for everyone!
Quite frankly there is a plenty of wrong with that and very little positives to balance it out
What am I missing here? You're not required to put a single point in it. I for example do not enjoy STO ground, so I have 0 points dedicated to the Commando spec. You can most definitely "avoid the thing".
Edit: There is also an added benefit to skipping specs you don't use: You get to save up spec points for spec trees you'll eventually want. I for example have more than enough to fill this tree up on day one.
I will agree with this. Yes there are a bunch of other stuff I'd rather see worked on first (like the lingering queue issue). However as I understand it, those are handled by different teams in Cryptic.
What's the cash grab? Spec points are free. If you are referring to the ships that come with it, then you don't really need to buy them if you don't want them either. It's a matter of telling the devs what you want through your wallet (something Borticus famously dared us to do).
None of the current specs are for everyone either to be fair. It'll however fit to a niche of players, just like how (for example) Command fits to a small niche of players. It's not an overly bad thing IMO.
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The loos of support for PvP came happened around 2013/14. When the original developer of the pvp system left Cryptic, and didn't leave any information in his work. He just left the coding.
Other devs have attempted to work on the pvp system. They have all left Cryptic under amicable conditions.
You are missing the fact that those points needs to be earned no matter what you do with them, which translates to 86k dil lost in the process. A small thing perhaps, but inconvenience and bother nonetheless.
I for one prefer the small trickle of dil over 30 spec point that i might use somewhere deep in 2018 on a spec that i actually like or want to play with. A lot can happen in that time
Again boils down to a timing. Either the spec was necessary and needed to be released now and in that case having a portion of it behind paywall is not a good thing, or the spec wasn't necessary at all and in such it begs the question about timing all over again.
Say Eli wouldn't you rather see the Temp spec/entrophy consumption fixed over the devs working on a niche spec added to a game that has more pressing concerns? What message it sends "here is the MW because we had nothing better to do", except that they actually got a better stuff to do perhaps?
Btw you actually believed what Borticus said?
But none of those specs are really bound to content as the MW is going to be. A torp boat with CF is a torp boat with CF no matter where you end. A boat with MW primary in a content where you don't really need any of that and the benefits are almost non-existent because of the very lack of need? There is somehow a difference between a niche thing and lets say better heals just for the sake of better heals despite the lack of need for them.
Imho, lot of people (including me) might very well end up with no chance to actually really benchmark the MW, because of the accessibility of certain content (which is nothing done about) and utter redundancy of the MW in a content that is normally available to a broader playerbase.
I'm willing to concede that there might be nothing wrong with the MW itself, but my God the timing is just off-putting
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