A friend told me critics never like McFarland's work, but that doesn't mean it won't be good if you like his type of humor. So I gave it a shot. I really enjoyed it, but I went into it knowing it was not supposed to be super serious. Hopefully it sticks around for a while, but I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Not too bad. The visuals were great and the makeup work was fantastic (the Krill wouldn't look out of place in ST proper). The sets were very shabby though, very cheap and fan-production looking. The plot and music were basically just TNG though, it would be better for the show in the long run if it establishes its own identity as being a TNG clone ruined VGR.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @smokebailey said:
> Dunno, Red Dwarf went on for a long time, and it's a sci-fi comedy. o.o
You're not reading me. Red Dwarf stuck to being a Britcom in space. The Orville is coming off as schizophrenic to me, trying to simultaneously be a semi-serious sci-fi drama and a juvenile frat house comedy.
And what's wrong with that?
Because it takes a lot to mesh incongruent ideas into watchable coherence. Even Red Dwarf misfires occasionally due to that.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @smokebailey said:
> Dunno, Red Dwarf went on for a long time, and it's a sci-fi comedy. o.o
You're not reading me. Red Dwarf stuck to being a Britcom in space. The Orville is coming off as schizophrenic to me, trying to simultaneously be a semi-serious sci-fi drama and a juvenile frat house comedy.
And what's wrong with that?
Because it takes a lot to mesh incongruent ideas into watchable coherence. Even Red Dwarf misfires occasionally due to that.
Or maybe certain things just don't fit your standards like it does for others....
> @smokebailey said:
> Dunno, Red Dwarf went on for a long time, and it's a sci-fi comedy. o.o
You're not reading me. Red Dwarf stuck to being a Britcom in space. The Orville is coming off as schizophrenic to me, trying to simultaneously be a semi-serious sci-fi drama and a juvenile frat house comedy.
And what's wrong with that?
Because it takes a lot to mesh incongruent ideas into watchable coherence. Even Red Dwarf misfires occasionally due to that.
Or maybe certain things just don't fit your standards like it does for others....
Maybe. Or maybe it takes a lot to mesh incongruent ideas into watchable coherence.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I loved it; I liked that it has more of a TNG era Trek feeling than a Ted in space feeling which the trailer tried to sell. That lets me hope a bit for DIS having more of some kind of Trek feeling rather than being like the 2004 BSG which its trailers try to sell (but sadly enforced by DIS members comparing it to GOT and Walking Dead).
Really, is that what you think? That doesn't make sense to me at all. In fact, when Voyager came out there was a lot of buzz about the premise, and the potential to break from the later TNG/DS9 formula of settled space and get back to pure exploration. The hope was that they'd get back to a planet of the week style like TOS did, but with modern production values. People were excited for it. The problem was, the execution didn't even come close to meeting the potential.
Bad writing, bland characters, and an overall lack of creative spark killed that series.
I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well, got to finish the pilot. Second half was a lot better than the first half, I'll give the series a chance.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Really, is that what you think? That doesn't make sense to me at all. In fact, when Voyager came out there was a lot of buzz about the premise, and the potential to break from the later TNG/DS9 formula of settled space and get back to pure exploration. The hope was that they'd get back to a planet of the week style like TOS did, but with modern production values. People were excited for it. The problem was, the execution didn't even come close to meeting the potential.
Bad writing, bland characters, and an overall lack of creative spark killed that series.
I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
It's never a good sign when we agree...
To be fair to Voyager, what really killed it (other than the above mentioned) was that they abandoned the premise due to playing it safe with regards scheduling. They began working on the premise of the viewability of an episode, if episodes were aired in any order, without the need to have seen previous ones. They went with stand-alone episodes (and the occasional two-parter) for the sake of 'viewability', rather than sticking with the original premise, which had the potential to be interesting. But they played it safe, and de-clawed themselves in the process, which IMO, was a shame. It could, and should, have been better than it was
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Really, is that what you think? That doesn't make sense to me at all. In fact, when Voyager came out there was a lot of buzz about the premise, and the potential to break from the later TNG/DS9 formula of settled space and get back to pure exploration. The hope was that they'd get back to a planet of the week style like TOS did, but with modern production values. People were excited for it. The problem was, the execution didn't even come close to meeting the potential.
Bad writing, bland characters, and an overall lack of creative spark killed that series.
I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
Uh, you had my confused for a while. "VGR" is what I associate with V'Ger. The usual acronym for Star Trek Voyager is VOY, I think.
One could argue both DS9 and VOY came at the wrong time. In VOY case, it might also be due to the writers and producers and anyone else involved in the decision making process. But if it was made today, I think they would not have that easily abandonded its core premise, and they would be able to make a heavily serialized TV show, since today's TV landscape has a good place for this. DVRs and Streaming (and even bittorrent) really enabled new forms of story-telling that were just impractical for viewers before.
DS9 was a great show, but imagine how much bigger a hit it might have been in the post 9/11 era.
Even if the stories didn't change at all. On the other hand, it might have come at the right time after all, because the stories it told and the characters it had might not have been possible anymore... I don't know if people could stand a former terrorist as the First Officer of the station. But maybe it would have been exactly the right thing.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Maybe, maybe not. nBSG went a lot further with the "terrorists or freedom fighters" question than DS9 did (they had a New Caprica Resistance member suicide-bomb the graduation for the Cylon-backed cops, remember?), and it started airing in 2003, run by one of the main minds behind DS9 and late TNG.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Really, is that what you think? That doesn't make sense to me at all. In fact, when Voyager came out there was a lot of buzz about the premise, and the potential to break from the later TNG/DS9 formula of settled space and get back to pure exploration. The hope was that they'd get back to a planet of the week style like TOS did, but with modern production values. People were excited for it. The problem was, the execution didn't even come close to meeting the potential.
Bad writing, bland characters, and an overall lack of creative spark killed that series.
I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
Uh, you had my confused for a while. "VGR" is what I associate with V'Ger. The usual acronym for Star Trek Voyager is VOY, I think.
One could argue both DS9 and VOY came at the wrong time. In VOY case, it might also be due to the writers and producers and anyone else involved in the decision making process. But if it was made today, I think they would not have that easily abandonded its core premise, and they would be able to make a heavily serialized TV show, since today's TV landscape has a good place for this. DVRs and Streaming (and even bittorrent) really enabled new forms of story-telling that were just impractical for viewers before.
DS9 was a great show, but imagine how much bigger a hit it might have been in the post 9/11 era.
Even if the stories didn't change at all. On the other hand, it might have come at the right time after all, because the stories it told and the characters it had might not have been possible anymore... I don't know if people could stand a former terrorist as the First Officer of the station. But maybe it would have been exactly the right thing.
Depends on one's definition of 'terrorist'.
The Bajoran resistance engaged in guerilla warfare against Cardassian occupying forces, and Bajoran collaborators.
I wouldn't say they were any more terrorists, than the French Resistance were.
As characters go, Kira was one of my least favorite, but I can accept that Kira did things in her life which she regretted having to do, but had to do because of circumstance. I wouldn't say that makes her 'a terrorist' (by contemporary definition of the word) If she was a terrorist, then she would have walked into Sisko's office with a trilitium vest under her uniform, rather than the daily reports on cargo manifests and Quark's shenanigans
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
^It's true that the Resistance was about driving out invaders and not religious or racial extremism, but you do have to factor in that Kira herself preferred the description "terrorist".
Of course, one of the strengths of DS9 was its mastery of grey morality. That is, they expand most of their aliens, even villainous ones like the Cardassians, beyond mere Hats to play the humans off of, and develop them into fully realized cultures with both stuff to admire and stuff to abhor.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
^It's true that the Resistance was about driving out invaders and not religious or racial extremism, but you do have to factor in that Kira herself preferred the description "terrorist".
Of course, one of the strengths of DS9 was its mastery of grey morality. That is, they expand most of their aliens, even villainous ones like the Cardassians, beyond mere Hats to play the humans off of, and develop them into fully realized cultures with both stuff to admire and stuff to abhor.
She also declared at one point "I AM JUST AN ADMINISTRATOR!!!"
I think she accepted that she couldn't change her past or hide it by rejecting it, but I don't think she allowed that to define who she had become at that point in the episodes (and of course, one must remember that the scripts were written in a time with a very different view on terrorists and terrorism, to today's perspective)
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Maybe, maybe not. nBSG went a lot further with the "terrorists or freedom fighters" question than DS9 did (they had a New Caprica Resistance member suicide-bomb the graduation for the Cylon-backed cops, remember?), and it started airing in 2003, run by one of the main minds behind DS9 and late TNG.
True. But it did this in its 3rd season, not in the pilot. (On the other hand, we don't really know much about Kira's terrorist activity at first either.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Really, is that what you think? That doesn't make sense to me at all. In fact, when Voyager came out there was a lot of buzz about the premise, and the potential to break from the later TNG/DS9 formula of settled space and get back to pure exploration. The hope was that they'd get back to a planet of the week style like TOS did, but with modern production values. People were excited for it. The problem was, the execution didn't even come close to meeting the potential.
Bad writing, bland characters, and an overall lack of creative spark killed that series.
I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
Uh, you had my confused for a while. "VGR" is what I associate with V'Ger. The usual acronym for Star Trek Voyager is VOY, I think.
One could argue both DS9 and VOY came at the wrong time. In VOY case, it might also be due to the writers and producers and anyone else involved in the decision making process. But if it was made today, I think they would not have that easily abandonded its core premise, and they would be able to make a heavily serialized TV show, since today's TV landscape has a good place for this. DVRs and Streaming (and even bittorrent) really enabled new forms of story-telling that were just impractical for viewers before.
DS9 was a great show, but imagine how much bigger a hit it might have been in the post 9/11 era.
Even if the stories didn't change at all. On the other hand, it might have come at the right time after all, because the stories it told and the characters it had might not have been possible anymore... I don't know if people could stand a former terrorist as the First Officer of the station. But maybe it would have been exactly the right thing.
Depends on one's definition of 'terrorist'.
The Bajoran resistance engaged in guerilla warfare against Cardassian occupying forces, and Bajoran collaborators.
I wouldn't say they were any more terrorists, than the French Resistance were.
As characters go, Kira was one of my least favorite, but I can accept that Kira did things in her life which she regretted having to do, but had to do because of circumstance. I wouldn't say that makes her 'a terrorist' (by contemporary definition of the word) If she was a terrorist, then she would have walked into Sisko's office with a trilitium vest under her uniform, rather than the daily reports on cargo manifests and Quark's shenanigans
And might this not be exactly the self perception "real" terrorists have today, too?
They think they are fighting occupying forces, that their freedom is restricted.
No one thinks of themselves as the villain.
Which is what would have made DS9's story much more powerful. But they would probably have added more story elements to mirror real events more, too. Imagine the reason Bajor was abandonded was something like the Bajorans managing to crash two cargo freighters to destroy two Cardassian cities or something like that. An event that allowed only two options to the Cardassians - strike out with even more violence, or abandon Bajor for good, cutting all traffic. And they went with the latter because the fight would have become too costly. (But they're still the villains in this DS9, but we should be forced to realize that we're sympathizing with someone that is responsible for the death of children in her fight for freedom and independence.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Really, is that what you think? That doesn't make sense to me at all. In fact, when Voyager came out there was a lot of buzz about the premise, and the potential to break from the later TNG/DS9 formula of settled space and get back to pure exploration. The hope was that they'd get back to a planet of the week style like TOS did, but with modern production values. People were excited for it. The problem was, the execution didn't even come close to meeting the potential.
Bad writing, bland characters, and an overall lack of creative spark killed that series.
I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
Uh, you had my confused for a while. "VGR" is what I associate with V'Ger. The usual acronym for Star Trek Voyager is VOY, I think.
One could argue both DS9 and VOY came at the wrong time. In VOY case, it might also be due to the writers and producers and anyone else involved in the decision making process. But if it was made today, I think they would not have that easily abandonded its core premise, and they would be able to make a heavily serialized TV show, since today's TV landscape has a good place for this. DVRs and Streaming (and even bittorrent) really enabled new forms of story-telling that were just impractical for viewers before.
DS9 was a great show, but imagine how much bigger a hit it might have been in the post 9/11 era.
Even if the stories didn't change at all. On the other hand, it might have come at the right time after all, because the stories it told and the characters it had might not have been possible anymore... I don't know if people could stand a former terrorist as the First Officer of the station. But maybe it would have been exactly the right thing.
Depends on one's definition of 'terrorist'.
The Bajoran resistance engaged in guerilla warfare against Cardassian occupying forces, and Bajoran collaborators.
I wouldn't say they were any more terrorists, than the French Resistance were.
As characters go, Kira was one of my least favorite, but I can accept that Kira did things in her life which she regretted having to do, but had to do because of circumstance. I wouldn't say that makes her 'a terrorist' (by contemporary definition of the word) If she was a terrorist, then she would have walked into Sisko's office with a trilitium vest under her uniform, rather than the daily reports on cargo manifests and Quark's shenanigans
And might this not be exactly the self perception "real" terrorists have today, too?
They think they are fighting occupying forces, that their freedom is restricted.
No one thinks of themselves as the villain.
Which is what would have made DS9's story much more powerful. But they would probably have added more story elements to mirror real events more, too. Imagine the reason Bajor was abandonded was something like the Bajorans managing to crash two cargo freighters to destroy two Cardassian cities or something like that. An event that allowed only two options to the Cardassians - strike out with even more violence, or abandon Bajor for good, cutting all traffic. And they went with the latter because the fight would have become too costly. (But they're still the villains in this DS9, but we should be forced to realize that we're sympathizing with someone that is responsible for the death of children in her fight for freedom and independence.)
Big difference between someone living in an occupied country fighting against an invading army, and someone who posed as a refugee, planting a nailbomb on a station in a completely different country. I'd draw the distinction between Freedom Fighters, and Terrorists. I'm sure many terrorists think they are freedom fighters, but that's another discussion, which frankly, I'd rather not delve into
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Uh, you had my confused for a while. "VGR" is what I associate with V'Ger. The usual acronym for Star Trek Voyager is VOY, I think.
John Van Citters has chosen "DSC" as the series' official abbreviation. This is consistent with the studio's use of "VGR" for Star Trek: Voyager, but MA will use the abbreviation "DIS" for Discovery, for consistency with using "VOY" for Voyager.
Both DSC and VGR are the official abbreviations. I have no desire to continue bolstering MAs self aggrandising by using its own acronyms over the official ones. It's already damn hard trying to dissect what's information taken from films or TV, on that site, from what's pulled from an editor's airlock o r their favourite newspaper comic from 1965.
It's possibly confusing but at least it's correct.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Big difference between someone living in an occupied country fighting against an invading army, and someone who posed as a refugee, planting a nailbomb on a station in a completely different country. I'd draw the distinction between Freedom Fighters, and Terrorists. I'm sure many terrorists think they are freedom fighters, but that's another discussion, which frankly, I'd rather not delve into
Is it really? If the people that are mucking up your own planet can't be convinced to leave, maybe you need to go to there planet and convince the people they are send out from?
I can totally see some Bajorans saying that if the fight on Bajor isn't getting the job done, that they'll carry it to Cardassia Prime itself. If the population at home suddenly realizes that Bajor is no longer a far away place that professionals are handling to get them the nice things they want, they might be deciding it's not worth it anymore.
Heck, even if that doesn't work, at least the people that profit from your own misery are miserable, too.
That was not what happened in DS9 (or maybe it did, it wasn't just in the forefront.) as we know it, but made after 9/11. Why not? If you really want to raise hard moral and ethical questions and hide them behind a nice sci-fi theme, that's what Moore or Wolfe or whoever else was on the writing staff might have done.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Big difference between someone living in an occupied country fighting against an invading army, and someone who posed as a refugee, planting a nailbomb on a station in a completely different country. I'd draw the distinction between Freedom Fighters, and Terrorists. I'm sure many terrorists think they are freedom fighters, but that's another discussion, which frankly, I'd rather not delve into
Is it really? If the people that are mucking up your own planet can't be convinced to leave, maybe you need to go to there planet and convince the people they are send out from?
I can totally see some Bajorans saying that if the fight on Bajor isn't getting the job done, that they'll carry it to Cardassia Prime itself. If the population at home suddenly realizes that Bajor is no longer a far away place that professionals are handling to get them the nice things they want, they might be deciding it's not worth it anymore.
Heck, even if that doesn't work, at least the people that profit from your own misery are miserable, too.
That was not what happened in DS9 (or maybe it did, it wasn't just in the forefront.) as we know it, but made after 9/11. Why not? If you really want to raise hard moral and ethical questions and hide them behind a nice sci-fi theme, that's what Moore or Wolfe or whoever else was on the writing staff might have done.
IMO, yes. Definite distinction between the two types of engagement. We know that the resistance hid some fighters (I think it was on one of Bajor's moons) but as far as I remember, I don't recall the Bajorans ever taking the fight to Cardassia Prime itself. They likely lacked the capability to do so. But either way, it's the distinct difference between being a freedom fighter in one's homeland, and someone waging a war of terror abroad, ie not directly against the enemy who is actually occupying said homeland.
Again, it's a topic of discussion I'd rather not delve into, as it's going beyond the realm of the show, and into speculation
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
@crashdragon you realise we all know you're insane right? Thus we just reverse your comments to reach the truth. Though to be honest we do that for all Down Unders as everything you do is upside down.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Guess that's why I hate JJTrek so much, just feel as he butchered a good chance to make it great, instead of tossing 50 years of canon in the toilet because he never understood it or never wanted to understand it, that and supported a lousy script with more holes then Swiss cheese.
First you claim he 'tossed 50 years of canon in the toilet' a claim that is wrong by the fact that it's an alternate timeline but then you go on to claim he gave a 'lousy script with more holes then Swiss cheese' so basically him following 50 years of canon. Make up your mind Crashy.
Anyways, enough of this derailing, and back to Orville. Going to watch the second episode today. =3
Enough derailing? You've never met me have you?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Not that I completely disagree or anything, but when we're talking about a Star Trek "inspired" science fiction show, wouldn't it be a good idea to not just point out Penny Johnson's role as Star Trek alumni? I suppose her role as president's wife in 24 is more recent and a bit bigger than the role of Sisko's love interest, but it just seems much more relevant.
Her role in "24" was considerably bigger than that in DS9 considering that she only appeared in like 6 episodes at most, maybe 4? Many of the younger Trekkies might not even remember her.
All i will say is that Robert D. McNeill and Johnathan Frakes are involved in the project as directors. For Seth's project at least, he is off to a solid start with the right mix of people along with Penny Johnson and guest stars like Robert Knepper and Charlize Theron. Even so the first episode got some pretty rotten reviews. First impressions are the most important, it's always the case.
I've never been impressed with Frakes work as a director. I'm even less fond of Seth McFarlane's style of humor. I am not knocking it, it's just never been my cup of Earl Grey. I've given Orville two swings at bat so far, the only thing this has above the late unlamented "Buck Rogers" is set and CGI production value. I thought Quark was a lot funnier than this and as for comedy in homage to Star Trek, this show has a long way to go before it even catches sight of Galaxy Quest's tail fins. That film set the bar for Star Trek style comedy and this show isn't even close.
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Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Because it takes a lot to mesh incongruent ideas into watchable coherence. Even Red Dwarf misfires occasionally due to that.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Or maybe certain things just don't fit your standards like it does for others....
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
Maybe. Or maybe it takes a lot to mesh incongruent ideas into watchable coherence.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I've bolded the key words. VGR did not fulfil its premise. It sacrificed the Marquis plot mere episodes in for the comforting stability of TNG's character dynamics. It started off with a TOS style character approach with only three characters (Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor) and later an TNG approach with four (adding Seven). Its premise of danger and exploration was replaced with the comforting stability of TNG's 'plod merrily around the block in relative safety' where the ship was attacked less times than the Ent-D. It even halted its 'struggle to get home' premise for the comforting stability of TNG's 'lets be explorers', something that was well out of place in VGR.
The problem is not that it was a TNG clone, but rather that it was an out of place TNG clone. It abandoned everything VGR was supposed to be and brought us nothing new. TAS is the only other show/film series in the franchise that has brought us nothing new and that was never billed as doing so unlike VGR.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
To be fair to Voyager, what really killed it (other than the above mentioned) was that they abandoned the premise due to playing it safe with regards scheduling. They began working on the premise of the viewability of an episode, if episodes were aired in any order, without the need to have seen previous ones. They went with stand-alone episodes (and the occasional two-parter) for the sake of 'viewability', rather than sticking with the original premise, which had the potential to be interesting. But they played it safe, and de-clawed themselves in the process, which IMO, was a shame. It could, and should, have been better than it was
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
One could argue both DS9 and VOY came at the wrong time. In VOY case, it might also be due to the writers and producers and anyone else involved in the decision making process. But if it was made today, I think they would not have that easily abandonded its core premise, and they would be able to make a heavily serialized TV show, since today's TV landscape has a good place for this. DVRs and Streaming (and even bittorrent) really enabled new forms of story-telling that were just impractical for viewers before.
DS9 was a great show, but imagine how much bigger a hit it might have been in the post 9/11 era.
Even if the stories didn't change at all. On the other hand, it might have come at the right time after all, because the stories it told and the characters it had might not have been possible anymore... I don't know if people could stand a former terrorist as the First Officer of the station. But maybe it would have been exactly the right thing.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The Bajoran resistance engaged in guerilla warfare against Cardassian occupying forces, and Bajoran collaborators.
I wouldn't say they were any more terrorists, than the French Resistance were.
As characters go, Kira was one of my least favorite, but I can accept that Kira did things in her life which she regretted having to do, but had to do because of circumstance. I wouldn't say that makes her 'a terrorist' (by contemporary definition of the word) If she was a terrorist, then she would have walked into Sisko's office with a trilitium vest under her uniform, rather than the daily reports on cargo manifests and Quark's shenanigans
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Of course, one of the strengths of DS9 was its mastery of grey morality. That is, they expand most of their aliens, even villainous ones like the Cardassians, beyond mere Hats to play the humans off of, and develop them into fully realized cultures with both stuff to admire and stuff to abhor.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I think she accepted that she couldn't change her past or hide it by rejecting it, but I don't think she allowed that to define who she had become at that point in the episodes (and of course, one must remember that the scripts were written in a time with a very different view on terrorists and terrorism, to today's perspective)
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
And might this not be exactly the self perception "real" terrorists have today, too?
They think they are fighting occupying forces, that their freedom is restricted.
No one thinks of themselves as the villain.
Which is what would have made DS9's story much more powerful. But they would probably have added more story elements to mirror real events more, too. Imagine the reason Bajor was abandonded was something like the Bajorans managing to crash two cargo freighters to destroy two Cardassian cities or something like that. An event that allowed only two options to the Cardassians - strike out with even more violence, or abandon Bajor for good, cutting all traffic. And they went with the latter because the fight would have become too costly. (But they're still the villains in this DS9, but we should be forced to realize that we're sympathizing with someone that is responsible for the death of children in her fight for freedom and independence.)
Big difference between someone living in an occupied country fighting against an invading army, and someone who posed as a refugee, planting a nailbomb on a station in a completely different country. I'd draw the distinction between Freedom Fighters, and Terrorists. I'm sure many terrorists think they are freedom fighters, but that's another discussion, which frankly, I'd rather not delve into
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Both DSC and VGR are the official abbreviations. I have no desire to continue bolstering MAs self aggrandising by using its own acronyms over the official ones. It's already damn hard trying to dissect what's information taken from films or TV, on that site, from what's pulled from an editor's airlock o r their favourite newspaper comic from 1965.
It's possibly confusing but at least it's correct.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I can totally see some Bajorans saying that if the fight on Bajor isn't getting the job done, that they'll carry it to Cardassia Prime itself. If the population at home suddenly realizes that Bajor is no longer a far away place that professionals are handling to get them the nice things they want, they might be deciding it's not worth it anymore.
Heck, even if that doesn't work, at least the people that profit from your own misery are miserable, too.
That was not what happened in DS9 (or maybe it did, it wasn't just in the forefront.) as we know it, but made after 9/11. Why not? If you really want to raise hard moral and ethical questions and hide them behind a nice sci-fi theme, that's what Moore or Wolfe or whoever else was on the writing staff might have done.
Again, it's a topic of discussion I'd rather not delve into, as it's going beyond the realm of the show, and into speculation
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Hmm, original themed? Like TOS? So what we got then. The bit that was endlessly complained about as it wasn't a sequel to Nemesis.
Instead we got KT Kirk growing up to be captain. Almost identical by the time of BEY.
First you claim he 'tossed 50 years of canon in the toilet' a claim that is wrong by the fact that it's an alternate timeline but then you go on to claim he gave a 'lousy script with more holes then Swiss cheese' so basically him following 50 years of canon. Make up your mind Crashy.
Crash mate, he's already through your window and up to his waist in your DVD cabinet with a lighter and a canister of petrol.
Enough derailing? You've never met me have you?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Her role in "24" was considerably bigger than that in DS9 considering that she only appeared in like 6 episodes at most, maybe 4? Many of the younger Trekkies might not even remember her.
I've never been impressed with Frakes work as a director. I'm even less fond of Seth McFarlane's style of humor. I am not knocking it, it's just never been my cup of Earl Grey. I've given Orville two swings at bat so far, the only thing this has above the late unlamented "Buck Rogers" is set and CGI production value. I thought Quark was a lot funnier than this and as for comedy in homage to Star Trek, this show has a long way to go before it even catches sight of Galaxy Quest's tail fins. That film set the bar for Star Trek style comedy and this show isn't even close.