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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Vinegar Pre-emptive protocol IC01

tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
edited August 2017 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Ended.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
Post edited by tilarta on
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  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    The Iconians vaguely remind me of the Protoss from Starcraft (the first game from 1998 at least, is a top 10 worthy classic for me).

    As for the whole canon vs. non-canon thing, I'm getting sick of hearing it. I personally don't believe Star Trek is realistic in any way conceivable (especially the newer stuff, which is more like run of the mill sci-fantasy), so I don't really care anymore. This vintage nerd mentality needs to die out.

    Having said that, I do agree somewhere that the iconians were a bit too campy for the ST 'universe'. I also think they were introduced too soon, and proved to be not exactly the badasses they were so built up to be. Disappointing story arc to say the least.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    apparently even the klingon look can be changed at a wim. so what is canon anyway...
    tmprl.jpg?width=998&height=499

    https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1249570/axanar-locks-in-start-date-for-filming
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • arionisaarionisa Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    According to the Devs, they can add nothing to the game until it has been approved by CBS. Which means anything in the game has been blessed as "canon".

    As far as magic/fantasy characters being in a sci-fi setting..... characters with "magical" powers that make STOs Iconians look weak have been around since TOS, the Iconians just happen to be more numerous, and the only ones to actually go to war with the Alliance everyone else.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    I'd like to take a cannon and blast this canon horse-hockey to smithereens. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,219 Arc User
    I've only seen Iconians in fan flics, and they looked predictably human because, as Marina Syrtis said, the actors are human. They used a ship with consoles and gadgets like regular Trek characters. The only difference was that their technology was more advanced.
  • ihatepwe735ihatepwe735 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    ... The only difference was that their technology was more advanced.

    No its not. Everyones technology level in Star Trek is always exactly the same. If any race actually was more advanced other races would have as much chance of prevailing against them as a Cavalry unit vs a Tank Division.

    The only race I can recall that's actually done anything that demonstrates an actual technological level disparity are the Q.

  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,502 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    ihatepwe735 wrote: »
    The only race I can recall that's actually done anything that demonstrates an actual technological level disparity are the Q.
    The Metrons (TOS: "Arena"). The Melkot (TOS: "Spectre of the Gun"). The Organians (TOS: "Errand of Mercy"). Trelane's unnamed people (TOS: "The Squire of Gothos", and no, they weren't Q - the Q hadn't reproduced in so long they'd almost forgotten about it, and Trelane was clearly presented as the child of the nebulous parents at the end). That's just TOS, and it's not even an exhaustive list.

    As for the original post, the only canon information we have regarding the Iconians is that they ruled the galaxy, or at least this part of it, some 200,000 years ago, remaining records called them "Demons of Air and Darkness", and they possessed technology capable of instantly teleporting them across interstellar distances. All else is up for grabs.
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    Everytime I've seen the Iconians and their ground troops in battle, I always think the same thing:
    They were used to make simulated Fantasy/magic characters in a sci-fi setting.

    From my perspective, even imitation magic has no place in sci-fi.
    To me, it looks like they were just using the Iconians to add thematic elements that don't belong in STO.

    Which got me wondering, if the Iconians actually appeared in Star Trek at some point, what would they be like?
    The only information we have seen is their technology and it just looks like the usual advanced tech stuff.
    If the Iconians do appear for real, I think they will have no resemblance whatsoever to how Cryptic imagined them.


    FYI, I have a intense dislike of the fantasy genre, because it's always getting promoted above sci-fi.
    And in some specific cases, it is used as a reason to diminish or cancel sci-fi based entertainment.
    Hence why I am extremely displeased to see a version of this genre appearing in STO.

    The Iconians are an artistic impression that Cryptic came up with, it's the same for the Elachi and Tzenkethi as well. you are welcome to dislike it, but it's there for your enjoyment if you wish it. :smile:
    arionisa wrote: »
    According to the Devs, they can add nothing to the game until it has been approved by CBS. Which means anything in the game has been blessed as "canon".

    Getting approval from CBS could just mean that Cryptic were looking for permission to use something from the star trek series, it wouldn't have anything to do with the legitimacy of this game.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    "They were used to make simulated Fantasy/magic characters in a sci-fi setting."

    Like it has been pointed already in a previous reply, any technology that is sufficiently advanced may just be perceived as magic by a being that wouldn't be evolved enough to comprehend it.

    Take your average caveman, for instance, and now imagine him witnessing the manifestation of fire for the first time... And you don't even have to look that far, actually. Lightnings, for instance, were perceived as nothing less than the manifestation of the wrath of a godly figure or another since Antiquity, and it stayed that way till the 18th century, when scientific knowledge had become advanced enough to start experimenting on the previously unexplainable phenomeon and develop a better understanding of it.

    The Iconians are supposed to be a 200.000+ years old civilization, that was already far more advanced than any other species at the time of its downfall... Honestly, even if we had the Federation's level of tech as of today, i do think we'd still envision Iconian tech as something near-magical in nature.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    arionisa wrote: »
    According to the Devs, they can add nothing to the game until it has been approved by CBS. Which means anything in the game has been blessed as "canon".
    (...)

    This is false, in every way, shape or form.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    If you mean: "If they ever make a Star Trek show, move or episode involving Iconians, will they be like the Iconians in Star Trek" the answer is "Probably Not".

    It's approved by CBS, like anything Cryptic puts in the game, which means they think it doesn't violate the spirit (or rather: damage/violate/dilute the brand and instead is a decent representation of it) of Star Trek. But the authors of a hypothetical new Star Trek property wouldn't necessarily be beholden to it, and in fact, probably wouldn't be.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    I think you are putting too much into the "approval" thing here. STO is a licensed game which means Cryptic is free to do what they want as long as they adhere to the guidelines the licenser has bestowed upon them. If singular ideas has to be run by CBS than probably just to make sure it doesn't collide with the marketing or anything because if you actually look at what works they have licensed up to this date there is absolutely no reason to believe anything but intentional damage to the brand Cryptic could come up with would be denied save for the possibility of conflicting with the marketing strategy of other products.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    #TASforSTO
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Ended.
    Post edited by tilarta on
    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2017
    This content has been removed.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    tilarta wrote: »
    From my perspective, STO is 100% fan fiction, just in computer game form.
    I think all STO games have been like that, cool and fun=yes, officially acknowledged=no.
    I enjoy it, but I never believe any of it is canon.

    Good, I prefer it this way. I like to use my own imagination in the game rather than to be confined in an overly fixated setting.

    And this comes from a guy that considers the first 2 seasons in ToS to be the best thing ever done in Star Trek (goofy and flawed, but the best nonetheless). Hated the third season though, with the exception of a few episodes.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    1. Is it a CBS owened TV show?
    2. Is it a CBS owened film?
    3. Is it a Paramount owened film?

    If the answers to those are no then it's not canon.

    Official means CBS have granted it a part of the franchise licence and can intervene creatively in order to protect their IP od that so desire.

    Canon means that it is part of a vague continuity whereby the previous entries in canon inform the world and story of the newest version and the current instalment can retcon older works. The game first the first criterion but fails the second. That combined with the 'no' answers to the above three questions means it's not canon.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
    #TASforSTO


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    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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  • forerunnerknight#7803 forerunnerknight
    forerunnerknight#7803
         Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    What about the T'Kon empire they were at lest as advanced as the iconians.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,219 Arc User
    Cytherians go on the list. Any race advanced enough to make Mr. Barclay suave and confident weilds technological capabilities which dwarf anything the Q ever did.

    Whoever rebuilt V'ger has to be on the list too, but I suppose a species needs a name in order to be on the list.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,219 Arc User
    Yes, I am aware of the background suggesting this, but there are other theories as well, with none of them ever shown on film. So while an interesting speculation, it is not an official one.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    The V'Ger - Borg theory also doesn't make sense. It was conceived by people who don't even understand the Borg, thus the theory falls flat on it's face before it even takes off. But obviously Cryptic thought it was just aces-billy-bob-thornton-lorne-malvo.gif?w=676​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    #TASforSTO
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    somtaawkhar wrote: »
    So Gene Roddenberry doesn't understand the Borg?

    He was the one who started it all when he suggested that the machine world Spock saw while inside V'ger may have been the borg homeworld.

    No, he didn't. Nor did he care for it. Because Gene had nothing to do with the whole creative process involving the Borg.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    #TASforSTO
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    somtaawkhar wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The V'Ger - Borg theory also doesn't make sense. It was conceived by people who don't even understand the Borg, thus the theory falls flat on it's face before it even takes off. But obviously Cryptic thought it was just ​
    So Gene Roddenberry doesn't understand the Borg?

    He was the one who started it all when he suggested that the machine world Spock saw while inside V'ger may have been the borg homeworld.

    Correct he didn't understand them.

    Oh, sorry, would that count as blasphemy?
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This discussion has been closed.