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Problems with PvP
taehsong
Member Posts: 629 Arc User
I noticed some ships are traveling at full impulse speed (maybe even faster) and firing weapons at the same time.
One guy was traveling so fast, Torpedo Spread couldn't catch up.
I checked the STO Combat DPS meter and one guy had 114.29% Crit Chance (meaning he had more hits than shots fired) with Dual Heavy Coalition Disruptor Cannons.
You might want to put in some speed checking routines and flag players who are exceeding intended design for possible cheating or game bugs.
One guy was traveling so fast, Torpedo Spread couldn't catch up.
I checked the STO Combat DPS meter and one guy had 114.29% Crit Chance (meaning he had more hits than shots fired) with Dual Heavy Coalition Disruptor Cannons.
You might want to put in some speed checking routines and flag players who are exceeding intended design for possible cheating or game bugs.
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Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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The only real problem w/ PvP is that it exists.
They're hit and run ships- This is what they're meant to do.
When I used to do PvP I did the same thing. I'd put all my power into speed and weapons, fly in all cannons blazing and tear a ship down then I'd hit evasive manuevers and an engine battery and I was off before anyone could barely target me.
Science vessels with CC powers or even a simple Eject Warp Plasma can stop players like that. There's several ways to counter it. I'd bet money if some had EWP or tractor beam mines, etc. You could have killed said player fairly easily.
It's not unbalanced, you just don't have the right build, reactions time, skills, or experience to deal with it.
Power creep makes ship gear virtually irrelevant. There are so many passive boosts and resistances from Commendation, Reputation, Traits, and Skills which affect performance that time-in-game is the single biggest factor in PvP or PvE performance. Second in importance is teamwork. Individual player skill is a bit below that, with gear rounding out the bottom of the list in order of importance.
Instead of stock ships, you need stock captains.
Exploits happen. Generally, though, when your DPS build goes into PvP and gets hammered, it's not the gear, and it's not an exploit. It's a combination of spike or burst damage, and knowing when to use it. The PvE game does not teach this, nor does it teach teamwork. You first encounter it in PvP.
In addition, there is the speed value of an engine. Higher mark level and more [Spd] modifiers coupled with a high base impulse modifier give you significant speed gains per point of power in the Engines subsystem.
Then there is the "impulse expertise skill" and some fixed speed and turn boosts. Many of these are additive, but some are multiplicative. With a high Engine power level, you can get some impressive speeds. My D4x can move nearly as fast as a cruiser going full impulse.
The issue is not "stuff is too fast". The issue is "I can run all my power levels at 125+ all the time". There should be some trade-off for running at max Engine power.
> I don't think his suggestion is for just fleet ships and parts. Scut standard through and through. It'd homogenize the ships into the most basic for their roles and the captains their classes, making skill more important than anything else as it'd all be trivialized. It's got merit, but you'd still have people whining about X captains in Y ships cleaning house.
True. That's where building a proper team comes in. You will need tanks and science ships to survive.
I'd think 'stock' ships would be equipped like you get them, with the common mk 12 weapons and equipment
> postinggum wrote: »
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> The idea of stock ships was tried with its own Star Trek Battles channel, eventually rules were laid down and the thing got more and more complex, though for a while they managed a competition.
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> I'd think 'stock' ships would be equipped like you get them, with the common mk 12 weapons and equipment
Yes.
However, if it were, and if it included the ability to temporarily reduce gear power to lower rarity and Mk levels for a particular battle, it could potentially solve the disparity between captains with seven years of grinding and captains who have just reached level 60.
If it can't be done via level matching, then it can be done in Tiered PvP, in which you must fly a ship of the appropriate tier with gear appropriate in rarity and Mk number for the level. Entering at that tier excludes all powers, traits, skills, and passives which can't be earned by a captain of that tier.
Time gated power progression. Those with the most time in game have more skill points, maxed commendations and reputations, and traits from a wider variety of sources. And as long as new stuff keeps getting added you can never catch up.
Then there is the learning curve. PvE trains you to pour damage downrange and watch the enemy esplode. PvP trains you to soak up damage or evade it while you set up kills.
A player I knew as Wombat made a video about that way back in Season 5. Ships pouring damage at each other to little effect, followed by a properly executed attack. Knowing how to conduct a proper alpha strike is much more than gear: it's timing, positioning, and knowing how to stack powers for maximum impact. Once you get past all the other obstacles, there is a huge wall of a learning curve that begins with the idea that DPS is nice, but in PvP it's kills that count.
It's definitely unbalanced. You pretty much have to be in a super speed build to PvP now. Try being a healer and watching the people on your team travel from one side of the map to the other in seconds. The super speed and the insane amounts of damage are the reasons as to why PvP is dead. It's just the same people using whatever's the most "OP" in PvP over and over again. From surgical strikes and ionic turbulence to entropic redistribution to the dyson consoles to super speed escorts.
If you need proof of how unbalanced PvP is now, just watch a video of PvP a few years ago and compare it to now. Either that or just look at how many people are in the PvP queues.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
> geoff484 wrote: »
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> This just sounds like someone thag knows how to use an escort properly.
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> They're hit and run ships- This is what they're meant to do.
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> When I used to do PvP I did the same thing. I'd put all my power into speed and weapons, fly in all cannons blazing and tear a ship down then I'd hit evasive manuevers and an engine battery and I was off before anyone could barely target me.
>
> Science vessels with CC powers or even a simple Eject Warp Plasma can stop players like that. There's several ways to counter it. I'd bet money if some had EWP or tractor beam mines, etc. You could have killed said player fairly easily.
>
> It's not unbalanced, you just don't have the right build, reactions time, skills, or experience to deal with it.
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>
>
>
> It's definitely unbalanced. You pretty much have to be in a super speed build to PvP now. Try being a healer and watching the people on your team travel from one side of the map to the other in seconds. The super speed and the insane amounts of damage are the reasons as to why PvP is dead. It's just the same people using whatever's the most "OP" in PvP over and over again. From surgical strikes and ionic turbulence to entropic redistribution to the dyson consoles to super speed escorts.
>
> If you need proof of how unbalanced PvP is now, just watch a video of PvP a few years ago and compare it to now. Either that or just look at how many people are in the PvP queues.
Agreed. It's beyond fixing. So knowing that you would have to kill so many peoples builds time and money spent accumulating there toys stop the fracking nerfs. Period.
This is not a bug. It is not an exploit. Small ships need speed to compensate because they are glass cannons. Speed is the natural advantage of these ships like the Miradorn, but it doesn't guarantee victory. I fought someone in pvp the other day, I could barely make a dent in their hull. They were healing faster than my weapons could damage them. I've also been obliterated by someone using a control build. They were compensating for their lack of speed in other ways that made my build look ineffective.
Some want protonic consoles nerfed.
Then some will say healing is op or science is op. This game will never be able to balance pvp without breaking 75-80 percent of EVERYONE'S pve builds. This is where the money is made. Even if pvp playerbase got up to 30-35 percent it would still kill the game to do these things.
Nerfing must stop before people won't spend money on pve for this very reason.