S13, I suspect, had a similar effect, because someone got it in his head that everyone now needed to be severely nerfed, to increase their 'fun.'
Actually if you remember from the dev blog about that, those across the board damage nerfs were because of DPS league players (yeah, it's our fault guys) going into public events, public battlezones, non queue everything, and just doing what we did best and DPSing the hell out of NPCs.
We would go into the badlands BZ and vaporize the NPCs in seconds. We would go into the Dyson space BZ and obliterate every voth ship in our path. We would go into Borg RAs and Tholian RAs and leave massive levels of death and destruction in our wake. We would do what we did best. And because of us, queues would finish, missions would be accomplished, and life would go on.
However Average Joe and Lazy Lucy (my apologies to anyone on here who is actually named Joe or Lucy or any form of that name, it's just a metaphor for this instance) would be in those same instances, and would be doing their thing (usually 3-4k DPS or just derping around), and when they went to shoot at something, it would be gone too fast for them to even tag it. When they went after an objective, it and the next 3 were usually already done, courtesy of the DPS players. So what did Average Joe and Lazy Lucy do? Instead of learn and get better, they complained on the forums! Very loudly, lots of moaning, groaning, BMWing (no, not the car). I mean, we all know who some of the biggest Anti DPS League forumites are (I can't name names due to forum rules, but I don't think I need to here). And those threads that they made were often filled with casual players who couldn't be bothered to DPS properly. Instead they just called us overpowered, elitests, min/maxers, and a number of other things.
And as a result, the devs saw this, looked at their metrics, looked at a bunch of other things, and instead of making the game more user friendly with more advice on builds and more ways to actually learn the game mechanics, they loudly and derpily declared that all of us who put in effort to make our builds streamlined, efficient, and deadly, were ruining the fun of the not so vigilant players, and as such, WE MUST BE NERFED! So instead of complimenting us for learning how to beat their game more effectively, creatively (let's face it, some of those pre s13 sci builds were... well... hilariously epically confusingly space magicky), and with much style (who doesn't love an Oddy disco ball), we were punished because the more vocal playerbase couldn't keep up.
I used to be average joe. Even with full mk XII purple gear, back in S9 my max DPS was only about 12k. Pathetic really. Then I met a few DPS league guys, and instead of complaining about how much stronger they were, I learned from them, improved my build, my piloting skills, and my general gameplay. Fast forward two weeks, and I went from just under 12k to sitting just a tad over 40k. A week later I was welcomed into the 50k channel. Alas, I never got into 75k, but that's cuz I got lazy. But self preening aside, I have a life outside of STO. I work 4 days a week, usually 7-9 hours a day, plus two hours minimum of travel time. I go to classes on the days I don't work. Honestly the only day I truly have off is Sunday, and I use that for laundry. But even with all those time constraints, I was able to learn and get significantly better. So honestly, those Average Joes and Lazy Lucys have no excuses. But apparently learning how to be better isn't "fun", so instead the upper echelon players were derped, so the casuals could actually feel useful.
TL;DR
High DPS players ruined the fun for regular casual lazy players by slaughtering things too quickly, and as such were nerfed to make the other casual players feel like they were actually contributing to things.
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
Moving on with the build diversity promotion thing then:
I liked the suggestion someone made that tanking should become more interesting again. We need content which promotes different roles, as well as good rewards for it and especially for those roles that do something else than kill everything, like healing an ally or protecting something.
Correct rewards for maps like CCA, increase the rewards for stuff like Gravity Kills, and indeed make sure that content in general is always more rewarding than clicky systems such as Admiralty.
Oh and a final note on the rebalancing: if it has had limited effect, that's because most of the rebalancing efforts had to be made undone. Most of the changes never made it to the live server.
Actually it did
A. It made the list far less bloated, and thus, easier to navigate, and it did so by
1. Merging every difficulty level of the same queue into one selection option(as every other game out there does)
2. Separating queues based on rewards
B. By separating queues based on rewards, it made it far easier to find the queue you wanted.
C. It eliminated the problem of accidentally double clicking your way into a queue that you didn't want to join, by making you confirm what queues you selected after selecting them.
It basically solved every single major complain people had about the old queue system, which was the bloated list, the lack of clear separation of rewards, and accidental queue joining.
And the only major problem the new system had was rather quickly resolved when they added the cooldown timer back in.
Which brings me to space rebalance... While I wasn't against reworking some things, I have always been opposed to big nerfs.
Then you are fundamentally opposed to not only MMORPGs, but RPGS, and many non RPGS, in general.
When something is overpowered, one does not raise everything else to be as overpowered as it is, one bring that one overpowered thing down to the level of everything else to balance it out.
Nerfing the fundamentally key to balancing all RPGs. Even non RPGs do nerfs for the same reason.
I dont think it was worse then DR. Like I remember then, most of my friends and fleeties left With this expansion didnt noticed any1 leaving from the ones that left. The balance pass was much needed, in fact I am sad it didnt went more in depth. There is still some odd stuff like sci getting Deflector Overcharged scraped cuz "It forces players into exotics" while scatterig field been affected by aux, wich its used for exotics... Go figure... Or the fact that GDF CD was shortened to 45 secs yet scattering field cd remained 3 mins... Or the blatand nerf of the Grav wells, especially the lt.com rank... Over 400 control expertise to get to the level of pull before nerf... Good luck doing that on a cruiser, warship or escort with just 2 sci console slots. This also nerfed indirectly cannons too since those escorts were using GW1 to gather and KEEP enemies in a narrow 45 degree arc...
But anyway, I disgress.
To me, its not the expansion but the summer event that I think its the worse we had since the begining. No latest mark turn-ins in exchange for pets made me not even raising them... Also with the Horga'nn hunt been once every 90 mins it, franckly the only efficient and fun way to gather lolnuts, it topped it out. It really feels like this is the suckiest summer event The only positive thing is the ship, pretty and good statwise. Looks great hovering and casting its shadow over the water. Kudos to whoever had this great idea.
S13, I suspect, had a similar effect, because someone got it in his head that everyone now needed to be severely nerfed, to increase their 'fun.'
Actually if you remember from the dev blog about that, those across the board damage nerfs were because of DPS league players (yeah, it's our fault guys) going into public events, public battlezones, non queue everything, and just doing what we did best and DPSing the hell out of NPCs.
We would go into the badlands BZ and vaporize the NPCs in seconds. We would go into the Dyson space BZ and obliterate every voth ship in our path. We would go into Borg RAs and Tholian RAs and leave massive levels of death and destruction in our wake. We would do what we did best. And because of us, queues would finish, missions would be accomplished, and life would go on.
However Average Joe and Lazy Lucy (my apologies to anyone on here who is actually named Joe or Lucy or any form of that name, it's just a metaphor for this instance) would be in those same instances, and would be doing their thing (usually 3-4k DPS or just derping around), and when they went to shoot at something, it would be gone too fast for them to even tag it. When they went after an objective, it and the next 3 were usually already done, courtesy of the DPS players. So what did Average Joe and Lazy Lucy do? Instead of learn and get better, they complained on the forums! Very loudly, lots of moaning, groaning, BMWing (no, not the car). I mean, we all know who some of the biggest Anti DPS League forumites are (I can't name names due to forum rules, but I don't think I need to here). And those threads that they made were often filled with casual players who couldn't be bothered to DPS properly. Instead they just called us overpowered, elitests, min/maxers, and a number of other things.
And as a result, the devs saw this, looked at their metrics, looked at a bunch of other things, and instead of making the game more user friendly with more advice on builds and more ways to actually learn the game mechanics, they loudly and derpily declared that all of us who put in effort to make our builds streamlined, efficient, and deadly, were ruining the fun of the not so vigilant players, and as such, WE MUST BE NERFED! So instead of complimenting us for learning how to beat their game more effectively, creatively (let's face it, some of those pre s13 sci builds were... well... hilariously epically confusingly space magicky), and with much style (who doesn't love an Oddy disco ball), we were punished because the more vocal playerbase couldn't keep up.
I used to be average joe. Even with full mk XII purple gear, back in S9 my max DPS was only about 12k. Pathetic really. Then I met a few DPS league guys, and instead of complaining about how much stronger they were, I learned from them, improved my build, my piloting skills, and my general gameplay. Fast forward two weeks, and I went from just under 12k to sitting just a tad over 40k. A week later I was welcomed into the 50k channel. Alas, I never got into 75k, but that's cuz I got lazy. But self preening aside, I have a life outside of STO. I work 4 days a week, usually 7-9 hours a day, plus two hours minimum of travel time. I go to classes on the days I don't work. Honestly the only day I truly have off is Sunday, and I use that for laundry. But even with all those time constraints, I was able to learn and get significantly better. So honestly, those Average Joes and Lazy Lucys have no excuses. But apparently learning how to be better isn't "fun", so instead the upper echelon players were derped, so the casuals could actually feel useful.
TL;DR
High DPS players ruined the fun for regular casual lazy players by slaughtering things too quickly, and as such were nerfed to make the other casual players feel like they were actually contributing to things.
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
Actually, someone just doing 75k in ISA trying to solo the map has a fair chance of failing the optional - they wouldn't have enough time. Same applies to team consisting of 15k players. In order to get an ISA run with even close to so-called "killsteals" happening, you'd need to have 300k+ team DPS - something that happened very rarely in pugs. Another thing to consider is that those who did absolutely crazy numbers managed to do so only in team environment, the numbers were much lower in pugs and even lower while soloing.
So while certainly extremely high DPSers in normals (that's including battlezones) were making others feel redundant, it couldn't happen often in advanced queues. *Unless* you count those who claim the only right way to play the game is to kill a single enemy in 20 minutes, and if you do it faster, you're just an unconsiderate jerk.
Also, about rebalance: before we had queues popping at quite normal rate, in an unbalanced game.
Now, we have balanced game (which is in fact still unbalanced, but let's leave it) but queues are more or less dead, cause so many people are feeling their fun is not accepted by Cryptic anymore. Some got their favourite builds nerfed into oblivion, others just saw investment losing value.
Not sure about others, but I'd pick unbalanced game that actually has activity over a perfectly balanced, but dead one. That is also why I made this thread in the first place.
I liked the suggestion someone made that tanking should become more interesting again. We need content which promotes different roles, as well as good rewards for it and especially for those roles that do something else than kill everything, like healing an ally or protecting something.
Still waiting for revamped No-Win Scenario. Cryptic pls.
S13, I suspect, had a similar effect, because someone got it in his head that everyone now needed to be severely nerfed, to increase their 'fun.'
Actually if you remember from the dev blog about that, those across the board damage nerfs were because of DPS league players (yeah, it's our fault guys) going into public events, public battlezones, non queue everything, and just doing what we did best and DPSing the hell out of NPCs.
We would go into the badlands BZ and vaporize the NPCs in seconds. We would go into the Dyson space BZ and obliterate every voth ship in our path. We would go into Borg RAs and Tholian RAs and leave massive levels of death and destruction in our wake. We would do what we did best. And because of us, queues would finish, missions would be accomplished, and life would go on.
However Average Joe and Lazy Lucy (my apologies to anyone on here who is actually named Joe or Lucy or any form of that name, it's just a metaphor for this instance) would be in those same instances, and would be doing their thing (usually 3-4k DPS or just derping around), and when they went to shoot at something, it would be gone too fast for them to even tag it. When they went after an objective, it and the next 3 were usually already done, courtesy of the DPS players. So what did Average Joe and Lazy Lucy do? Instead of learn and get better, they complained on the forums! Very loudly, lots of moaning, groaning, BMWing (no, not the car). I mean, we all know who some of the biggest Anti DPS League forumites are (I can't name names due to forum rules, but I don't think I need to here). And those threads that they made were often filled with casual players who couldn't be bothered to DPS properly. Instead they just called us overpowered, elitests, min/maxers, and a number of other things.
And as a result, the devs saw this, looked at their metrics, looked at a bunch of other things, and instead of making the game more user friendly with more advice on builds and more ways to actually learn the game mechanics, they loudly and derpily declared that all of us who put in effort to make our builds streamlined, efficient, and deadly, were ruining the fun of the not so vigilant players, and as such, WE MUST BE NERFED! So instead of complimenting us for learning how to beat their game more effectively, creatively (let's face it, some of those pre s13 sci builds were... well... hilariously epically confusingly space magicky), and with much style (who doesn't love an Oddy disco ball), we were punished because the more vocal playerbase couldn't keep up.
I used to be average joe. Even with full mk XII purple gear, back in S9 my max DPS was only about 12k. Pathetic really. Then I met a few DPS league guys, and instead of complaining about how much stronger they were, I learned from them, improved my build, my piloting skills, and my general gameplay. Fast forward two weeks, and I went from just under 12k to sitting just a tad over 40k. A week later I was welcomed into the 50k channel. Alas, I never got into 75k, but that's cuz I got lazy. But self preening aside, I have a life outside of STO. I work 4 days a week, usually 7-9 hours a day, plus two hours minimum of travel time. I go to classes on the days I don't work. Honestly the only day I truly have off is Sunday, and I use that for laundry. But even with all those time constraints, I was able to learn and get significantly better. So honestly, those Average Joes and Lazy Lucys have no excuses. But apparently learning how to be better isn't "fun", so instead the upper echelon players were derped, so the casuals could actually feel useful.
TL;DR
High DPS players ruined the fun for regular casual lazy players by slaughtering things too quickly, and as such were nerfed to make the other casual players feel like they were actually contributing to things.
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
^^^^^ This...
In general, I like cannons and turrets, but for maps like the Borg and Tholian Red Alerts, beams save help with getting swamped by a mob, while trying to focus on a specific target. Or at least they used to. I was able to log on for a few hours yesterday on someone else's PC, and although I've never run a parse, and have no clue what my pre-rebalance DOS output was, the ship which normally handled Borg Red Alerts fairly well, got absolutely hammered. Now I'm willing to accept that I hadn't played in a while, so I was a bit rusty, and the PC I was using, had one of those thumb-ball 'mouse' things, which I was completely not used to, so I had nowhere near the fluency of control I'm used to with a regular mouse. So I can accept that my timing was probably more than a bit off, and the times when I was trying to hit a boff power, I was missing, or a few seconds late, but even so, the ship which has always been a self-regenerating tank build, got well and truly bent over the barrel The rebalance was definitely felt And no amount of dismissive fakehumble from DPS Meisters, changes the fact that they were doing way more (through glitched and manipulated game mechanics) than the game was intended to deal with. They did/do ruin pugs by flying in and melting everything in seconds. Just because they can do that, doesn't give them the right to do so in an instance which is being shared with other players. Private queues? Fine. PVE Mission Maps? Fine. Pug runs? Have a little consideration, show some self-restraint, and allow all the players to at least be in with a chance of taking out a target. Because if people too often feel that they aren't able to participate, they'll stop trying. Which will mean no cash spent on upgrades, meaning no money to Cryptic, meaning no game for DPS Meisters to even wave their epeens about in.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I don't like the changes! Cuz now my ship suxx! An' I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! An' now my ship suxx! Cuz I was relying upon broken and exploitative game mechanics caused by poor coding! You fixed the coding, you meanies! An' now my ship suxx! Change it back! Cuz I liked it better when I could exploit broken game mechanics! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz you guys made it so we couldn't use the broken and exploitable game mechanics any more! That wuz mean! Change it back! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz now, because my ship suxx, I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! That's not fair!"
This is what I'm seeing in this thread.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
"I don't like the changes! Cuz now my ship suxx! An' I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! An' now my ship suxx! Cuz I was relying upon broken and exploitative game mechanics caused by poor coding! You fixed the coding, you meanies! An' now my ship suxx! Change it back! Cuz I liked it better when I could exploit broken game mechanics! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz you guys made it so we couldn't use the broken and exploitable game mechanics any more! That wuz mean! Change it back! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz now, because my ship suxx, I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! That's not fair!"
This is what I'm seeing in this thread.
"Up yer shaft!" - Montgomery Scott
I never once used any of the broken game mechanics DPS Meisters were using. No exploiters, exploders, locators or any of that kid of specialist consoles. I'd have a weapon type (typically polaron or phaser) and the appropriate console to boost it. The effects which I primarily stacked, were hull regeneration and turn rate, because cruisers, well, they turn pretty slow, and take a beating otherwise. So no, not 'cuz I liked it better when I could exploit broken game mechanics!' Not by a long shot. I can fully understand and accept that my own rustiness and unfamiliarity with a track-ball mouse played a fair part in my substandard performance, but when a ship which would normally keep restoring its shields and hull, simply gets reduced and blown up, that's a sign that the ship itself simply isn't performing as it did before, which was how I built it to perform.
Answer me this: Why should I, or anyone else, have to change the equipment and ship I, or they, use, just to survive maps which it, or they, used to be able to cope with, because everyone got hit with a rebalance, because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from waving their epeens around?
I get it, exploiting game glitches is fun, and that's fine, but do it in your own private queue, not put other players in the position of being unable to contribute because you've BFAW'd the Store High In Transit out of everything in the map, giving them nothing to do.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @thunderfoot006 said: > "I don't like the changes! Cuz now my ship suxx! An' I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! An' now my ship suxx! Cuz I was relying upon broken and exploitative game mechanics caused by poor coding! You fixed the coding, you meanies! An' now my ship suxx! Change it back! Cuz I liked it better when I could exploit broken game mechanics! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz you guys made it so we couldn't use the broken and exploitable game mechanics any more! That wuz mean! Change it back! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz now, because my ship suxx, I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! That's not fair!" > > This is what I'm seeing in this thread.
Ah another forum genius who defo 111% understands the game. In the very crowded field of spewing idiotic forum pish, this one is defo pushing for consideration as one of the worst posts I've seen. Grats I guess.
Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
S13, I suspect, had a similar effect, because someone got it in his head that everyone now needed to be severely nerfed, to increase their 'fun.'
Actually if you remember from the dev blog about that, those across the board damage nerfs were because of DPS league players (yeah, it's our fault guys) going into public events, public battlezones, non queue everything, and just doing what we did best and DPSing the hell out of NPCs.
We would go into the badlands BZ and vaporize the NPCs in seconds. We would go into the Dyson space BZ and obliterate every voth ship in our path. We would go into Borg RAs and Tholian RAs and leave massive levels of death and destruction in our wake. We would do what we did best. And because of us, queues would finish, missions would be accomplished, and life would go on.
However Average Joe and Lazy Lucy (my apologies to anyone on here who is actually named Joe or Lucy or any form of that name, it's just a metaphor for this instance) would be in those same instances, and would be doing their thing (usually 3-4k DPS or just derping around), and when they went to shoot at something, it would be gone too fast for them to even tag it. When they went after an objective, it and the next 3 were usually already done, courtesy of the DPS players. So what did Average Joe and Lazy Lucy do? Instead of learn and get better, they complained on the forums! Very loudly, lots of moaning, groaning, BMWing (no, not the car). I mean, we all know who some of the biggest Anti DPS League forumites are (I can't name names due to forum rules, but I don't think I need to here). And those threads that they made were often filled with casual players who couldn't be bothered to DPS properly. Instead they just called us overpowered, elitests, min/maxers, and a number of other things.
And as a result, the devs saw this, looked at their metrics, looked at a bunch of other things, and instead of making the game more user friendly with more advice on builds and more ways to actually learn the game mechanics, they loudly and derpily declared that all of us who put in effort to make our builds streamlined, efficient, and deadly, were ruining the fun of the not so vigilant players, and as such, WE MUST BE NERFED! So instead of complimenting us for learning how to beat their game more effectively, creatively (let's face it, some of those pre s13 sci builds were... well... hilariously epically confusingly space magicky), and with much style (who doesn't love an Oddy disco ball), we were punished because the more vocal playerbase couldn't keep up.
I used to be average joe. Even with full mk XII purple gear, back in S9 my max DPS was only about 12k. Pathetic really. Then I met a few DPS league guys, and instead of complaining about how much stronger they were, I learned from them, improved my build, my piloting skills, and my general gameplay. Fast forward two weeks, and I went from just under 12k to sitting just a tad over 40k. A week later I was welcomed into the 50k channel. Alas, I never got into 75k, but that's cuz I got lazy. But self preening aside, I have a life outside of STO. I work 4 days a week, usually 7-9 hours a day, plus two hours minimum of travel time. I go to classes on the days I don't work. Honestly the only day I truly have off is Sunday, and I use that for laundry. But even with all those time constraints, I was able to learn and get significantly better. So honestly, those Average Joes and Lazy Lucys have no excuses. But apparently learning how to be better isn't "fun", so instead the upper echelon players were derped, so the casuals could actually feel useful.
TL;DR
High DPS players ruined the fun for regular casual lazy players by slaughtering things too quickly, and as such were nerfed to make the other casual players feel like they were actually contributing to things.
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
Actually, someone just doing 75k in ISA trying to solo the map has a fair chance of failing the optional - they wouldn't have enough time. Same applies to team consisting of 15k players. In order to get an ISA run with even close to so-called "killsteals" happening, you'd need to have 300k+ team DPS - something that happened very rarely in pugs. Another thing to consider is that those who did absolutely crazy numbers managed to do so only in team environment, the numbers were much lower in pugs and even lower while soloing.
So while certainly extremely high DPSers in normals (that's including battlezones) were making others feel redundant, it couldn't happen often in advanced queues. *Unless* you count those who claim the only right way to play the game is to kill a single enemy in 20 minutes, and if you do it faster, you're just an unconsiderate jerk.
Also, about rebalance: before we had queues popping at quite normal rate, in an unbalanced game.
Now, we have balanced game (which is in fact still unbalanced, but let's leave it) but queues are more or less dead, cause so many people are feeling their fun is not accepted by Cryptic anymore. Some got their favourite builds nerfed into oblivion, others just saw investment losing value.
Not sure about others, but I'd pick unbalanced game that actually has activity over a perfectly balanced, but dead one. That is also why I made this thread in the first place.
I liked the suggestion someone made that tanking should become more interesting again. We need content which promotes different roles, as well as good rewards for it and especially for those roles that do something else than kill everything, like healing an ally or protecting something.
Still waiting for revamped No-Win Scenario. Cryptic pls.
The Sompek Arena was a nice new approach of the NWS. I hope they can bring it back and make something similar for the space part of the game
As for the dead vs. unbalanced game - why would we have to choose between these two? A lack of balance will eventually result in a dead game as well because many people will feel that they cannot contribute; not because they are lazy as the other poster assumed, but because the game is not able to sustain the severe lack of balance.
So it would be better to opt for a combination of both - a balanced game with well designed content that promotes different roles plus higher rewards for such content and which is thus interesting to keep playing. Maybe also create some diversity within the missions, like random events that reduce the predictability. Somehow I think that most queues are not played that often because most people have seen them by now.
Perhaps the rebalancing should have been done more gradually, that was definitely the case during DR and maybe for Season 13 as well. But the rebalancing itself was not a negative and actually much needed thing; and I doubt this is the (main) reason why the queues are underpopulated/dead now. I tend to think that there is a deeper cause which has much more to do with the content itself.
Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
well for many out there bfaw is the most broken skill/mechanic in the game :P
and oh boy cooldown reduction to have better uptime for it? CHEATS AND HAXES!
jokes aside as for my limited knowledge about how these people were getting their dps they were using tricks that are unknown and may seem broken for average joe/someone whithout knowledge how it works - and also if someone lurked on forums long enought before s13 he would notice a trend of opinion over here that faw is broken and required being stoped to the ground with nerfhammer
well actually probably pretty big chunk of those claims you find silly may be adressed solely toward B:FaW and stuff meant to increase it's uptime....
> @trejgon said: > tunebreaker wrote: » > > Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is. > > > > > well for many out there bfaw is the most broken skill/mechanic in the game :P > > and oh boy cooldown reduction to have better uptime for it? CHEATS AND HAXES! > > jokes aside as for my limited knowledge about how these people were getting their dps they were using tricks that are unknown and may seem broken for average joe/someone whithout knowledge how it works - and also if someone lurked on forums long enought before s13 he would notice a trend of opinion over here that faw is broken and required being stoped to the ground with nerfhammer > > well actually probably pretty big chunk of those claims you find silly may be adressed solely toward B:FaW and stuff meant to increase it's uptime....
S13, I suspect, had a similar effect, because someone got it in his head that everyone now needed to be severely nerfed, to increase their 'fun.'
Actually if you remember from the dev blog about that, those across the board damage nerfs were because of DPS league players (yeah, it's our fault guys) going into public events, public battlezones, non queue everything, and just doing what we did best and DPSing the hell out of NPCs.
We would go into the badlands BZ and vaporize the NPCs in seconds. We would go into the Dyson space BZ and obliterate every voth ship in our path. We would go into Borg RAs and Tholian RAs and leave massive levels of death and destruction in our wake. We would do what we did best. And because of us, queues would finish, missions would be accomplished, and life would go on.
However Average Joe and Lazy Lucy (my apologies to anyone on here who is actually named Joe or Lucy or any form of that name, it's just a metaphor for this instance) would be in those same instances, and would be doing their thing (usually 3-4k DPS or just derping around), and when they went to shoot at something, it would be gone too fast for them to even tag it. When they went after an objective, it and the next 3 were usually already done, courtesy of the DPS players. So what did Average Joe and Lazy Lucy do? Instead of learn and get better, they complained on the forums! Very loudly, lots of moaning, groaning, BMWing (no, not the car). I mean, we all know who some of the biggest Anti DPS League forumites are (I can't name names due to forum rules, but I don't think I need to here). And those threads that they made were often filled with casual players who couldn't be bothered to DPS properly. Instead they just called us overpowered, elitests, min/maxers, and a number of other things.
And as a result, the devs saw this, looked at their metrics, looked at a bunch of other things, and instead of making the game more user friendly with more advice on builds and more ways to actually learn the game mechanics, they loudly and derpily declared that all of us who put in effort to make our builds streamlined, efficient, and deadly, were ruining the fun of the not so vigilant players, and as such, WE MUST BE NERFED! So instead of complimenting us for learning how to beat their game more effectively, creatively (let's face it, some of those pre s13 sci builds were... well... hilariously epically confusingly space magicky), and with much style (who doesn't love an Oddy disco ball), we were punished because the more vocal playerbase couldn't keep up.
I used to be average joe. Even with full mk XII purple gear, back in S9 my max DPS was only about 12k. Pathetic really. Then I met a few DPS league guys, and instead of complaining about how much stronger they were, I learned from them, improved my build, my piloting skills, and my general gameplay. Fast forward two weeks, and I went from just under 12k to sitting just a tad over 40k. A week later I was welcomed into the 50k channel. Alas, I never got into 75k, but that's cuz I got lazy. But self preening aside, I have a life outside of STO. I work 4 days a week, usually 7-9 hours a day, plus two hours minimum of travel time. I go to classes on the days I don't work. Honestly the only day I truly have off is Sunday, and I use that for laundry. But even with all those time constraints, I was able to learn and get significantly better. So honestly, those Average Joes and Lazy Lucys have no excuses. But apparently learning how to be better isn't "fun", so instead the upper echelon players were derped, so the casuals could actually feel useful.
TL;DR
High DPS players ruined the fun for regular casual lazy players by slaughtering things too quickly, and as such were nerfed to make the other casual players feel like they were actually contributing to things.
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
Actually, someone just doing 75k in ISA trying to solo the map has a fair chance of failing the optional - they wouldn't have enough time. Same applies to team consisting of 15k players. In order to get an ISA run with even close to so-called "killsteals" happening, you'd need to have 300k+ team DPS - something that happened very rarely in pugs. Another thing to consider is that those who did absolutely crazy numbers managed to do so only in team environment, the numbers were much lower in pugs and even lower while soloing.
Yes. At 'team environment' is where allegedly being obsolete needs some major nuance. Since DPS is a function of damage over time, being with better players in a team isn't necessarily a bad thing for your own performance (as has been suggested). For instance, I did 78k once, in an ISA: not because I had suddenly become much better, but because everyone around me had done like 90k and up. (This is not the same as being carried, btw, as you're simply doing your thang, as per usual: it's just that the rest does better). It's a delicate balance, though: if the rest of the team is too superior, you won't be able to get a shot in edge-wise, and your DPS will tank. But 'slightly, yet noticeably better than you' is your optimum.
Also, about rebalance: before we had queues popping at quite normal rate, in an unbalanced game.
Now, we have balanced game (which is in fact still unbalanced, but let's leave it) but queues are more or less dead, cause so many people are feeling their fun is not accepted by Cryptic anymore. Some got their favourite builds nerfed into oblivion, others just saw investment losing value.
Again, wise words.
Not sure about others, but I'd pick unbalanced game that actually has activity over a perfectly balanced, but dead one. That is also why I made this thread in the first place.
Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
well for many out there bfaw is the most broken skill/mechanic in the game :P
and oh boy cooldown reduction to have better uptime for it? CHEATS AND HAXES!
jokes aside as for my limited knowledge about how these people were getting their dps they were using tricks that are unknown and may seem broken for average joe/someone whithout knowledge how it works - and also if someone lurked on forums long enought before s13 he would notice a trend of opinion over here that faw is broken and required being stoped to the ground with nerfhammer
well actually probably pretty big chunk of those claims you find silly may be adressed solely toward B:FaW and stuff meant to increase it's uptime....
The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers.
All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums).
I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't TRIBBLE themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit.
S13, I suspect, had a similar effect, because someone got it in his head that everyone now needed to be severely nerfed, to increase their 'fun.'
Actually if you remember from the dev blog about that, those across the board damage nerfs were because of DPS league players (yeah, it's our fault guys) going into public events, public battlezones, non queue everything, and just doing what we did best and DPSing the hell out of NPCs.
We would go into the badlands BZ and vaporize the NPCs in seconds. We would go into the Dyson space BZ and obliterate every voth ship in our path. We would go into Borg RAs and Tholian RAs and leave massive levels of death and destruction in our wake. We would do what we did best. And because of us, queues would finish, missions would be accomplished, and life would go on.
However Average Joe and Lazy Lucy (my apologies to anyone on here who is actually named Joe or Lucy or any form of that name, it's just a metaphor for this instance) would be in those same instances, and would be doing their thing (usually 3-4k DPS or just derping around), and when they went to shoot at something, it would be gone too fast for them to even tag it. When they went after an objective, it and the next 3 were usually already done, courtesy of the DPS players. So what did Average Joe and Lazy Lucy do? Instead of learn and get better, they complained on the forums! Very loudly, lots of moaning, groaning, BMWing (no, not the car). I mean, we all know who some of the biggest Anti DPS League forumites are (I can't name names due to forum rules, but I don't think I need to here). And those threads that they made were often filled with casual players who couldn't be bothered to DPS properly. Instead they just called us overpowered, elitests, min/maxers, and a number of other things.
And as a result, the devs saw this, looked at their metrics, looked at a bunch of other things, and instead of making the game more user friendly with more advice on builds and more ways to actually learn the game mechanics, they loudly and derpily declared that all of us who put in effort to make our builds streamlined, efficient, and deadly, were ruining the fun of the not so vigilant players, and as such, WE MUST BE NERFED! So instead of complimenting us for learning how to beat their game more effectively, creatively (let's face it, some of those pre s13 sci builds were... well... hilariously epically confusingly space magicky), and with much style (who doesn't love an Oddy disco ball), we were punished because the more vocal playerbase couldn't keep up.
I used to be average joe. Even with full mk XII purple gear, back in S9 my max DPS was only about 12k. Pathetic really. Then I met a few DPS league guys, and instead of complaining about how much stronger they were, I learned from them, improved my build, my piloting skills, and my general gameplay. Fast forward two weeks, and I went from just under 12k to sitting just a tad over 40k. A week later I was welcomed into the 50k channel. Alas, I never got into 75k, but that's cuz I got lazy. But self preening aside, I have a life outside of STO. I work 4 days a week, usually 7-9 hours a day, plus two hours minimum of travel time. I go to classes on the days I don't work. Honestly the only day I truly have off is Sunday, and I use that for laundry. But even with all those time constraints, I was able to learn and get significantly better. So honestly, those Average Joes and Lazy Lucys have no excuses. But apparently learning how to be better isn't "fun", so instead the upper echelon players were derped, so the casuals could actually feel useful.
TL;DR
High DPS players ruined the fun for regular casual lazy players by slaughtering things too quickly, and as such were nerfed to make the other casual players feel like they were actually contributing to things.
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
Actually, someone just doing 75k in ISA trying to solo the map has a fair chance of failing the optional - they wouldn't have enough time. Same applies to team consisting of 15k players. In order to get an ISA run with even close to so-called "killsteals" happening, you'd need to have 300k+ team DPS - something that happened very rarely in pugs. Another thing to consider is that those who did absolutely crazy numbers managed to do so only in team environment, the numbers were much lower in pugs and even lower while soloing.
So while certainly extremely high DPSers in normals (that's including battlezones) were making others feel redundant, it couldn't happen often in advanced queues. *Unless* you count those who claim the only right way to play the game is to kill a single enemy in 20 minutes, and if you do it faster, you're just an unconsiderate jerk.
Also, about rebalance: before we had queues popping at quite normal rate, in an unbalanced game.
Now, we have balanced game (which is in fact still unbalanced, but let's leave it) but queues are more or less dead, cause so many people are feeling their fun is not accepted by Cryptic anymore. Some got their favourite builds nerfed into oblivion, others just saw investment losing value.
Not sure about others, but I'd pick unbalanced game that actually has activity over a perfectly balanced, but dead one. That is also why I made this thread in the first place.
I liked the suggestion someone made that tanking should become more interesting again. We need content which promotes different roles, as well as good rewards for it and especially for those roles that do something else than kill everything, like healing an ally or protecting something.
Still waiting for revamped No-Win Scenario. Cryptic pls.
The Sompek Arena was a nice new approach of the NWS. I hope they can bring it back and make something similar for the space part of the game
As for the dead vs. unbalanced game - why would we have to choose between these two? A lack of balance will eventually result in a dead game as well because many people will feel that they cannot contribute; not because they are lazy as the other poster assumed, but because the game is not able to sustain the severe lack of balance.
So it would be better to opt for a combination of both - a balanced game with well designed content that promotes different roles plus higher rewards for such content and which is thus interesting to keep playing. Maybe also create some diversity within the missions, like random events that reduce the predictability. Somehow I think that most queues are not played that often because most people have seen them by now.
Perhaps the rebalancing should have been done more gradually, that was definitely the case during DR and maybe for Season 13 as well. But the rebalancing itself was not a negative and actually much needed thing; and I doubt this is the (main) reason why the queues are underpopulated/dead now. I tend to think that there is a deeper cause which has much more to do with the content itself.
Yeah, I agree the rebalancing only surely didn't kill that much. And I agree balanced game would be favourable, however Cryptic has time and time again showed how they can't deliver that. However, besides rebalance and queue UI, how do you explain sudden inactivity in both pug queues and DPS channels after S13? Last year during Risa, queues (at least more popular ones) still popped very quickly.
Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
I don't really give a damn what they were relying on to get the results, the fact is, they were putting out more damage, on an individual basis, than a map needed, and as a result, when going into random pugs or battlesones, melting everything before others could even get a piece of the action! Is that fair? Is that sportsman-like conduct? Or is that just being a show-off waving an epeen around?
And what's been the result? A nerf which hit everyone, and arguably, hit the lower-end of the spectrum harder than those at the top, because they have less of a margin to take the hit.
Like I said, I've never run a parse, so I've no idea what kind of DPS output I had, but here's the basic set up from memory...
7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
Temporal Disentanglement Suite doing +0-2.5% Critical Chance. +0-10% Critical Severity.
Assimilated module doing +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity.
Chronometric Capacitor +20% Polaron Damage.
Red Matter Capacitor doing +25 All Power Settings for 20 sec
1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
Solanae Impluse Engine doing +3.8 Weapon Power Setting
Hardly anything spectacular, but it was always able to handle Red Alerts fairly well with maybe a couple of respawns. Yesterday, significantly more respawns, (admitedly some due to pilot error) but also significantly less durability in the resilience of the build itself.
Not enough to make me quit the game, but enough to be irritated that what was, to my purposes, a pretty adequate and durable build, had been noticeably diminished.
Any why had this happened?
Because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from showing off their toys to the point that enough people started complaining about it that the devs did something about it.
Bravo, DPS epeens, bravo
*Slow Clapping*
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > tunebreaker wrote: » > > Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is. > > > > I don't really give a damn what they were relying on to get the results, the fact is, they were putting out more damage, on an individual basis, than a map needed, and as a result, when going into random pugs or battlesones, melting everything before others could even get a piece of the action! Is that fair? Is that sportsman-like conduct? Or is that just being a show-off waving an epeen around? > > And what's been the result? A nerf which hit everyone, and arguably, hit the lower-end of the spectrum harder than those at the top, because they have less of a margin to take the hit. > > Like I said, I've never run a parse, so I've no idea what kind of DPS output I had, but here's the basic set up from memory... > > 7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret. > Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS) > Temporal Disentanglement Suite doing +0-2.5% Critical Chance. +0-10% Critical Severity. > Assimilated module doing +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity. > Chronometric Capacitor +20% Polaron Damage. > Red Matter Capacitor doing +25 All Power Settings for 20 sec > 1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??% > Solanae Impluse Engine doing +3.8 Weapon Power Setting > > Hardly anything spectacular, but it was always able to handle Red Alerts fairly well with maybe a couple of respawns. Yesterday, significantly more respawns, (admitedly some due to pilot error) but also significantly less durability in the resilience of the build itself. > > Not enough to make me quit the game, but enough to be irritated that what was, to my purposes, a pretty adequate and durable build, had been noticeably diminished. > > Any why had this happened? > > Because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from showing off their toys to the point that enough people started complaining about it that the devs did something about it. > > Bravo, DPS epeens, bravo > > *Slow Clapping*
Lol well this thread is certainly pushing out contenders for that most ignorant forum post title. Good effort, pretty much a perfect terrible post.
I know that the blanket nerf didn't increase my fun at all. My builds all perform slightly worse and my favorite turret build that I had invested quite heavily into is now basically a joke. I've adjusted my builds accordingly by removing all the things that got nerfed into the ground, but my performance will never be what it was. The balance pass was suppose to help out PvP, but most of the people I PvP'ed with have "taken a break" and now play other games. I haven't seen an exodus like this since the release of DR. Not sure if they will return or not, but I haven't done much in the way of PvP since the update. Additionally, the competitive queues are pretty dead most days (at least when I'm on). The normal queues don't pop much either. The only queues I can get to pop with any consistency are CCA and Tholian Alert (which people are now using for competitive marks). The new UI for the queues is garbage. I get removed from queues after I click accept with no notification that anything failed. Other times I don't even need to click on accept it just warps me into the mission randomly. When I do click accept I can sit there for several minuts wondering whats going on then suddenly warp into the mission (really miss that countdown timer). The entirety of the season has been frustrating for me. My friend list shrunk, my builds no longer work as well, and I can't get a queue to pop if my life depended on it...unless it's one of the two I mentioned above. I miss the day where the only thing I thought sucked was the Galaxy class.
Everybody is either switching to consoles to play STO or finding a new game to play on the PC. STO is pretty much dead at least on the PC version.
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> tunebreaker wrote: »
>
> Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
>
>
>
> I don't really give a damn what they were relying on to get the results, the fact is, they were putting out more damage, on an individual basis, than a map needed, and as a result, when going into random pugs or battlesones, melting everything before others could even get a piece of the action! Is that fair? Is that sportsman-like conduct? Or is that just being a show-off waving an epeen around?
>
> And what's been the result? A nerf which hit everyone, and arguably, hit the lower-end of the spectrum harder than those at the top, because they have less of a margin to take the hit.
>
> Like I said, I've never run a parse, so I've no idea what kind of DPS output I had, but here's the basic set up from memory...
>
> 7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
> Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
> Temporal Disentanglement Suite doing +0-2.5% Critical Chance. +0-10% Critical Severity.
> Assimilated module doing +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity.
> Chronometric Capacitor +20% Polaron Damage.
> Red Matter Capacitor doing +25 All Power Settings for 20 sec
> 1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
> Solanae Impluse Engine doing +3.8 Weapon Power Setting
>
> Hardly anything spectacular, but it was always able to handle Red Alerts fairly well with maybe a couple of respawns. Yesterday, significantly more respawns, (admitedly some due to pilot error) but also significantly less durability in the resilience of the build itself.
>
> Not enough to make me quit the game, but enough to be irritated that what was, to my purposes, a pretty adequate and durable build, had been noticeably diminished.
>
> Any why had this happened?
>
> Because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from showing off their toys to the point that enough people started complaining about it that the devs did something about it.
>
> Bravo, DPS epeens, bravo
>
> *Slow Clapping*
Lol well this thread is certainly pushing out contenders for that most ignorant forum post title. Good effort, pretty much a perfect terrible post.
Care to give specific feedback, or is this just a hit-and-run trolling?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> tunebreaker wrote: »
>
> Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
>
>
>
> I don't really give a damn what they were relying on to get the results, the fact is, they were putting out more damage, on an individual basis, than a map needed, and as a result, when going into random pugs or battlesones, melting everything before others could even get a piece of the action! Is that fair? Is that sportsman-like conduct? Or is that just being a show-off waving an epeen around?
>
> And what's been the result? A nerf which hit everyone, and arguably, hit the lower-end of the spectrum harder than those at the top, because they have less of a margin to take the hit.
>
> Like I said, I've never run a parse, so I've no idea what kind of DPS output I had, but here's the basic set up from memory...
>
> 7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
> Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
> Temporal Disentanglement Suite doing +0-2.5% Critical Chance. +0-10% Critical Severity.
> Assimilated module doing +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity.
> Chronometric Capacitor +20% Polaron Damage.
> Red Matter Capacitor doing +25 All Power Settings for 20 sec
> 1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
> Solanae Impluse Engine doing +3.8 Weapon Power Setting
>
> Hardly anything spectacular, but it was always able to handle Red Alerts fairly well with maybe a couple of respawns. Yesterday, significantly more respawns, (admitedly some due to pilot error) but also significantly less durability in the resilience of the build itself.
>
> Not enough to make me quit the game, but enough to be irritated that what was, to my purposes, a pretty adequate and durable build, had been noticeably diminished.
>
> Any why had this happened?
>
> Because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from showing off their toys to the point that enough people started complaining about it that the devs did something about it.
>
> Bravo, DPS epeens, bravo
>
> *Slow Clapping*
Lol well this thread is certainly pushing out contenders for that most ignorant forum post title. Good effort, pretty much a perfect terrible post.
Care to give specific feedback, or is this just a hit-and-run trolling?
Your post essentially was "I don't use a parser or DPS-build, nor have I ever done so, but I'm the perfect person to tell you all about the DPSers and how they are ultimate evil in the game". Kinda silly, don't you think?
The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers.
All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums).
I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't **** themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit.
And this is a good summation of why some of the changes happened. If you can't figure that stuff out from reading tooltips in-game, it's broken. And yes, anything that requires reading guides posted to youtube IS uncommon knowledge. Especially stuff related to overcapping, which was not only something the game suggested didn't even exist, but also turns out to have been a bug and not intended to work that way.
The core problem with your logic is the assumption that either you're a DPSer or a loser. Seriously, you basically said that only people who read guides posted to the internet are actually trying to play the game well... yeah, great job demonstrating why a lot of people think of the DPS leagues as being run by elitist snobs.
> @markhawkman said: > tunebreaker wrote: » > > The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers. > All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums). > I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't **** themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit. > > > > And this is a good summation of why some of the changes happened. If you can't figure that stuff out from reading tooltips in-game, it's broken. And yes, anything that requires reading guides posted to youtube IS uncommon knowledge. Especially stuff related to overcapping, which was not only something the game suggested didn't even exist, but also turns out to have been a bug and not intended to work that way. > > The core problem with your logic is the assumption that either you're a DPSer or a loser. Seriously, you basically said that only people who read guides posted to the internet are actually trying to play the game well... yeah, great job demonstrating why a lot of people think of the DPS leagues as being run by elitist snobs.
> @markhawkman said: > tunebreaker wrote: » > > The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers. > All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums). > I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't **** themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit. > > > > And this is a good summation of why some of the changes happened. If you can't figure that stuff out from reading tooltips in-game, it's broken. And yes, anything that requires reading guides posted to youtube IS uncommon knowledge. Especially stuff related to overcapping, which was not only something the game suggested didn't even exist, but also turns out to have been a bug and not intended to work that way. > > The core problem with your logic is the assumption that either you're a DPSer or a loser. Seriously, you basically said that only people who read guides posted to the internet are actually trying to play the game well... yeah, great job demonstrating why a lot of people think of the DPS leagues as being run by elitist snobs.
What? Worse than the expansion which caused a big chunk of the player base to leave and never come back? Is this a joke?
I just came back and I'm still having issues finishing Delta.... They really need to redo the Kobali stuff or make every mission skippable. Nonetheless I really did miss STO but not being able to advance the story line and getting zero help from the support people regarding the Kobali missions irked me to no end.
Nevertheless the look and feel recently is what peaked my interesting enough to entice me to give it a shot again... Guess what? After many attempts (again) I finally got one toon through Delta and am now stuck with another. It makes we want to scream at times.....
On a side note, I wish they would give plasma its juice again.... I feel like a neutered Rommie...
What issues are you having with the Kobali arc? That's actually one of my favorites, so if there's anything I can maybe do to help, please let me know
Getting credit for finishing the Acts and now the leader does not spawn properly for another mission... There are a couple threads in the bugs forum about the issues...
Ahh, that sounds a little outside my area of expertise :-\ I had a similar issue with the last wave of Na'kuhl not spawning aboard the Tholian vessel, and would sometimes have to quit and drop the mission several times, before it would actually load them properly to progress the level. Is that something you've already tried?
Numerous times... Accordingly, it is a fundamental reason for the the general opinion about Delta being the worst expansion for STO. Yet here we are - how long after? Still with know issues from then, plaguing the user experience...
Delta rising was an okay expansion pack for STO. It wasn't bad as the Legacy of Romulus expansion but it could been a lot better. What I didn't like about Delta rising was the storylines for the game. I found the storylines for Delta Rising to be either too silly or too repetitive in nature.
Comments
This is all a very nice story, but it's missing one crucial element. A map and the enemies on it can only sustain so much damage (per second). For ISA this was once calculated as 15k per player, or 75k DPS in total. When one player can easily do that on his own or twice that amount even (not to mention the absolute top which was approaching 5-6 time that amount) then the rest of the team is redundant.
It's quite a simple equation, yet something that is usually (and probably intentionally) ignored by those who defend unsustainable situations like we had before the much needed rebalancing. It has nothing to do with Joe being average or not, or Lucy being lazy or not. Even if Joe and Lucy manage to pull off between 30-50k (which means, again, that this one Joe or Lucy are already able to fill in half the team on their own), that will still be useless if someone who's doing twice or three times as much damage, kills everything in sight within a few seconds.
And that's not even to mention the fact that not everyone likes easy builds such as beam-centred ones that instantly hit and fire in all directions. Some players actually prefer a build that requires piloting and steering your ship, as well as using weapons that take some time to travel between the player and their target. Which has nothing to do with being lazy; I'd actually say that those following the meta are pretty lazy when they want everything to be over in seconds.
The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with being lazy, and everything with promoting diversity of builds plus (and also through that) giving everyone a chance to fight. There are builds that require the enemy to survive for longer than just a few seconds - and most maps in general tend to render half the team obsolete if there is one overperforming player on it.
I liked the suggestion someone made that tanking should become more interesting again. We need content which promotes different roles, as well as good rewards for it and especially for those roles that do something else than kill everything, like healing an ally or protecting something.
Correct rewards for maps like CCA, increase the rewards for stuff like Gravity Kills, and indeed make sure that content in general is always more rewarding than clicky systems such as Admiralty.
Oh and a final note on the rebalancing: if it has had limited effect, that's because most of the rebalancing efforts had to be made undone. Most of the changes never made it to the live server.
+1
But anyway, I disgress.
To me, its not the expansion but the summer event that I think its the worse we had since the begining. No latest mark turn-ins in exchange for pets made me not even raising them... Also with the Horga'nn hunt been once every 90 mins it, franckly the only efficient and fun way to gather lolnuts, it topped it out. It really feels like this is the suckiest summer event
Actually, someone just doing 75k in ISA trying to solo the map has a fair chance of failing the optional - they wouldn't have enough time. Same applies to team consisting of 15k players. In order to get an ISA run with even close to so-called "killsteals" happening, you'd need to have 300k+ team DPS - something that happened very rarely in pugs. Another thing to consider is that those who did absolutely crazy numbers managed to do so only in team environment, the numbers were much lower in pugs and even lower while soloing.
So while certainly extremely high DPSers in normals (that's including battlezones) were making others feel redundant, it couldn't happen often in advanced queues. *Unless* you count those who claim the only right way to play the game is to kill a single enemy in 20 minutes, and if you do it faster, you're just an unconsiderate jerk.
Also, about rebalance: before we had queues popping at quite normal rate, in an unbalanced game.
Now, we have balanced game (which is in fact still unbalanced, but let's leave it) but queues are more or less dead, cause so many people are feeling their fun is not accepted by Cryptic anymore. Some got their favourite builds nerfed into oblivion, others just saw investment losing value.
Not sure about others, but I'd pick unbalanced game that actually has activity over a perfectly balanced, but dead one. That is also why I made this thread in the first place.
Still waiting for revamped No-Win Scenario. Cryptic pls.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
In general, I like cannons and turrets, but for maps like the Borg and Tholian Red Alerts, beams save help with getting swamped by a mob, while trying to focus on a specific target. Or at least they used to. I was able to log on for a few hours yesterday on someone else's PC, and although I've never run a parse, and have no clue what my pre-rebalance DOS output was, the ship which normally handled Borg Red Alerts fairly well, got absolutely hammered. Now I'm willing to accept that I hadn't played in a while, so I was a bit rusty, and the PC I was using, had one of those thumb-ball 'mouse' things, which I was completely not used to, so I had nowhere near the fluency of control I'm used to with a regular mouse. So I can accept that my timing was probably more than a bit off, and the times when I was trying to hit a boff power, I was missing, or a few seconds late, but even so, the ship which has always been a self-regenerating tank build, got well and truly bent over the barrel
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
This is what I'm seeing in this thread.
"Up yer shaft!" - Montgomery Scott
I never once used any of the broken game mechanics DPS Meisters were using. No exploiters, exploders, locators or any of that kid of specialist consoles. I'd have a weapon type (typically polaron or phaser) and the appropriate console to boost it. The effects which I primarily stacked, were hull regeneration and turn rate, because cruisers, well, they turn pretty slow, and take a beating otherwise. So no, not 'cuz I liked it better when I could exploit broken game mechanics!' Not by a long shot. I can fully understand and accept that my own rustiness and unfamiliarity with a track-ball mouse played a fair part in my substandard performance, but when a ship which would normally keep restoring its shields and hull, simply gets reduced and blown up, that's a sign that the ship itself simply isn't performing as it did before, which was how I built it to perform.
Answer me this: Why should I, or anyone else, have to change the equipment and ship I, or they, use, just to survive maps which it, or they, used to be able to cope with, because everyone got hit with a rebalance, because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from waving their epeens around?
I get it, exploiting game glitches is fun, and that's fine, but do it in your own private queue, not put other players in the position of being unable to contribute because you've BFAW'd the Store High In Transit out of everything in the map, giving them nothing to do.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> "I don't like the changes! Cuz now my ship suxx! An' I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! An' now my ship suxx! Cuz I was relying upon broken and exploitative game mechanics caused by poor coding! You fixed the coding, you meanies! An' now my ship suxx! Change it back! Cuz I liked it better when I could exploit broken game mechanics! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz you guys made it so we couldn't use the broken and exploitable game mechanics any more! That wuz mean! Change it back! Cuz now my ship suxx! Cuz now, because my ship suxx, I hafta learn how to play STO all over again! That's not fair!"
>
> This is what I'm seeing in this thread.
Ah another forum genius who defo 111% understands the game. In the very crowded field of spewing idiotic forum pish, this one is defo pushing for consideration as one of the worst posts I've seen. Grats I guess.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
The Sompek Arena was a nice new approach of the NWS. I hope they can bring it back and make something similar for the space part of the game
As for the dead vs. unbalanced game - why would we have to choose between these two? A lack of balance will eventually result in a dead game as well because many people will feel that they cannot contribute; not because they are lazy as the other poster assumed, but because the game is not able to sustain the severe lack of balance.
So it would be better to opt for a combination of both - a balanced game with well designed content that promotes different roles plus higher rewards for such content and which is thus interesting to keep playing. Maybe also create some diversity within the missions, like random events that reduce the predictability. Somehow I think that most queues are not played that often because most people have seen them by now.
Perhaps the rebalancing should have been done more gradually, that was definitely the case during DR and maybe for Season 13 as well. But the rebalancing itself was not a negative and actually much needed thing; and I doubt this is the (main) reason why the queues are underpopulated/dead now. I tend to think that there is a deeper cause which has much more to do with the content itself.
well for many out there bfaw is the most broken skill/mechanic in the game :P
and oh boy cooldown reduction to have better uptime for it? CHEATS AND HAXES!
jokes aside as for my limited knowledge about how these people were getting their dps they were using tricks that are unknown and may seem broken for average joe/someone whithout knowledge how it works - and also if someone lurked on forums long enought before s13 he would notice a trend of opinion over here that faw is broken and required being stoped to the ground with nerfhammer
well actually probably pretty big chunk of those claims you find silly may be adressed solely toward B:FaW and stuff meant to increase it's uptime....
> tunebreaker wrote: »
>
> Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
>
>
>
>
> well for many out there bfaw is the most broken skill/mechanic in the game :P
>
> and oh boy cooldown reduction to have better uptime for it? CHEATS AND HAXES!
>
> jokes aside as for my limited knowledge about how these people were getting their dps they were using tricks that are unknown and may seem broken for average joe/someone whithout knowledge how it works - and also if someone lurked on forums long enought before s13 he would notice a trend of opinion over here that faw is broken and required being stoped to the ground with nerfhammer
>
> well actually probably pretty big chunk of those claims you find silly may be adressed solely toward B:FaW and stuff meant to increase it's uptime....
Nah, not even close.
Yes. At 'team environment' is where allegedly being obsolete needs some major nuance. Since DPS is a function of damage over time, being with better players in a team isn't necessarily a bad thing for your own performance (as has been suggested). For instance, I did 78k once, in an ISA: not because I had suddenly become much better, but because everyone around me had done like 90k and up. (This is not the same as being carried, btw, as you're simply doing your thang, as per usual: it's just that the rest does better). It's a delicate balance, though: if the rest of the team is too superior, you won't be able to get a shot in edge-wise, and your DPS will tank. But 'slightly, yet noticeably better than you' is your optimum.
Again, wise words.
And even wiser words.
The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers.
All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums).
I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't TRIBBLE themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit.
Yeah, I agree the rebalancing only surely didn't kill that much. And I agree balanced game would be favourable, however Cryptic has time and time again showed how they can't deliver that. However, besides rebalance and queue UI, how do you explain sudden inactivity in both pug queues and DPS channels after S13? Last year during Risa, queues (at least more popular ones) still popped very quickly.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
And what's been the result? A nerf which hit everyone, and arguably, hit the lower-end of the spectrum harder than those at the top, because they have less of a margin to take the hit.
Like I said, I've never run a parse, so I've no idea what kind of DPS output I had, but here's the basic set up from memory...
7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
Temporal Disentanglement Suite doing +0-2.5% Critical Chance. +0-10% Critical Severity.
Assimilated module doing +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity.
Chronometric Capacitor +20% Polaron Damage.
Red Matter Capacitor doing +25 All Power Settings for 20 sec
1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
Solanae Impluse Engine doing +3.8 Weapon Power Setting
Hardly anything spectacular, but it was always able to handle Red Alerts fairly well with maybe a couple of respawns. Yesterday, significantly more respawns, (admitedly some due to pilot error) but also significantly less durability in the resilience of the build itself.
Not enough to make me quit the game, but enough to be irritated that what was, to my purposes, a pretty adequate and durable build, had been noticeably diminished.
Any why had this happened?
Because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from showing off their toys to the point that enough people started complaining about it that the devs did something about it.
Bravo, DPS epeens, bravo
*Slow Clapping*
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> tunebreaker wrote: »
>
> Yeah, it's really silly to read how some ppl still think DPSers were relying on *broken* mechanics and exploits to do their numbers. Shows how clueless that part of playerbase is.
>
>
>
> I don't really give a damn what they were relying on to get the results, the fact is, they were putting out more damage, on an individual basis, than a map needed, and as a result, when going into random pugs or battlesones, melting everything before others could even get a piece of the action! Is that fair? Is that sportsman-like conduct? Or is that just being a show-off waving an epeen around?
>
> And what's been the result? A nerf which hit everyone, and arguably, hit the lower-end of the spectrum harder than those at the top, because they have less of a margin to take the hit.
>
> Like I said, I've never run a parse, so I've no idea what kind of DPS output I had, but here's the basic set up from memory...
>
> 7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
> Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
> Temporal Disentanglement Suite doing +0-2.5% Critical Chance. +0-10% Critical Severity.
> Assimilated module doing +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity.
> Chronometric Capacitor +20% Polaron Damage.
> Red Matter Capacitor doing +25 All Power Settings for 20 sec
> 1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
> Solanae Impluse Engine doing +3.8 Weapon Power Setting
>
> Hardly anything spectacular, but it was always able to handle Red Alerts fairly well with maybe a couple of respawns. Yesterday, significantly more respawns, (admitedly some due to pilot error) but also significantly less durability in the resilience of the build itself.
>
> Not enough to make me quit the game, but enough to be irritated that what was, to my purposes, a pretty adequate and durable build, had been noticeably diminished.
>
> Any why had this happened?
>
> Because a bunch of DPS Meisters couldn't keep from showing off their toys to the point that enough people started complaining about it that the devs did something about it.
>
> Bravo, DPS epeens, bravo
>
> *Slow Clapping*
Lol well this thread is certainly pushing out contenders for that most ignorant forum post title. Good effort, pretty much a perfect terrible post.
Everybody is either switching to consoles to play STO or finding a new game to play on the PC. STO is pretty much dead at least on the PC version.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Your post essentially was "I don't use a parser or DPS-build, nor have I ever done so, but I'm the perfect person to tell you all about the DPSers and how they are ultimate evil in the game". Kinda silly, don't you think?
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> I did give you feedback. Your post is terrible.
>
>
>
> Just trolling then. Duly noted
No, your post was really terrible. What's hard to comprehend there?
The core problem with your logic is the assumption that either you're a DPSer or a loser. Seriously, you basically said that only people who read guides posted to the internet are actually trying to play the game well... yeah, great job demonstrating why a lot of people think of the DPS leagues as being run by elitist snobs.
My character Tsin'xing
> tunebreaker wrote: »
>
> The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers.
> All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums).
> I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't **** themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit.
>
>
>
> And this is a good summation of why some of the changes happened. If you can't figure that stuff out from reading tooltips in-game, it's broken. And yes, anything that requires reading guides posted to youtube IS uncommon knowledge. Especially stuff related to overcapping, which was not only something the game suggested didn't even exist, but also turns out to have been a bug and not intended to work that way.
>
> The core problem with your logic is the assumption that either you're a DPSer or a loser. Seriously, you basically said that only people who read guides posted to the internet are actually trying to play the game well... yeah, great job demonstrating why a lot of people think of the DPS leagues as being run by elitist snobs.
> @markhawkman said:
> tunebreaker wrote: »
>
> The guy who held highest DPS record for quite a long time has one video series that lasts for 6h where he explains various mechanics behind DPS and how he does those numbers, and another one lasting 10h from same guy. Also there are various other sources where other people explain how *they* do their runs and numbers.
> All high DPS runs have parser logs that everyone can access (provided they have a parser installed), and most have videos showing the run where they did their record (many of those also got posted to forums).
> I wouldn't call that "unknown knowledge", more like lazy players who can't **** themselves to check stuff up and learn a bit.
>
>
>
> And this is a good summation of why some of the changes happened. If you can't figure that stuff out from reading tooltips in-game, it's broken. And yes, anything that requires reading guides posted to youtube IS uncommon knowledge. Especially stuff related to overcapping, which was not only something the game suggested didn't even exist, but also turns out to have been a bug and not intended to work that way.
>
> The core problem with your logic is the assumption that either you're a DPSer or a loser. Seriously, you basically said that only people who read guides posted to the internet are actually trying to play the game well... yeah, great job demonstrating why a lot of people think of the DPS leagues as being run by elitist snobs.
Man, this tread just keeps on givin!
Delta rising was an okay expansion pack for STO. It wasn't bad as the Legacy of Romulus expansion but it could been a lot better. What I didn't like about Delta rising was the storylines for the game. I found the storylines for Delta Rising to be either too silly or too repetitive in nature.