Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
*looks at the queues* Look pretty dead to me, guy, I hear, because people don't like the content or the interface to load them up
What if ISA or CCA stopped running? Serious question, no joke, what would happen? What difference would it actually make? Plenty of missions available to grind for the farming, I hear 'Tour the Federation' getting mentioned, but never looked into it myself.
I'm not a smoker, but consider this analogy: A group of people sitting in a circle taking a smoke then passing, eventually, that cigarette's going to burn out. Eventually, someone's going to have to kick in more tobacco and more papers, or even just produce matches or lighter to re-light the existing butt if it goes out.
Yes, grinder players are utilizing the zen Someone else has paid for, but that's a finite quantity, and Cryptic's needs are ongoing: They need injections of cash to keep the lights on, they can't keep 'sucking the ashes'.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
PS (Because I fear the Edit) I wasn't trying to suggest that non-supporting grind players be kicked out of the game or prevented from playing, I was just pointing out that they aren't actually paying to keep the lights on, those of us who purchase direct, who subscribe, we're the ones actually paying to keep the lights on. And that if the concern is that allowing ship upgrade tokens to go from T2 up to T3, T3 to T4, T4 to T5, T5 to T5U, T5U to T6, that's five tokens. 600 Zen per piece, and that's the same as a T6 outright, and a ship which may not have a T6 counterpart. And the player might still buy another T6 anyway (especially if they're a collector) It wouldn't actually be costing Cryptic anything, but would definitely open another revenue stream.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
*looks at the queues* Look pretty dead to me, guy, I hear, because people don't like the content or the interface to load them up
What if ISA or CCA stopped running? Serious question, no joke, what would happen? What difference would it actually make? Plenty of missions available to grind for the farming, I hear 'Tour the Federation' getting mentioned, but never looked into it myself.
I'm not a smoker, but consider this analogy: A group of people sitting in a circle taking a smoke then passing, eventually, that cigarette's going to burn out. Eventually, someone's going to have to kick in more tobacco and more papers, or even just produce matches or lighter to re-light the existing butt if it goes out.
Yes, grinder players are utilizing the zen Someone else has paid for, but that's a finite quantity, and Cryptic's needs are ongoing: They need injections of cash to keep the lights on, they can't keep 'sucking the ashes'.
except thats not even close to how the dil exchange works, it closer to someone doing some chores(the thing thats give dil) for that cigarette. or actual employment you give your time(in this case dil) for pay(zen). I don't even know where your getting the idea zen is that limited. and if you don't know what happen when the thing everyone does all the time dies then we're wasting our time here.
PS (Because I fear the Edit) I wasn't trying to suggest that non-supporting grind players be kicked out of the game or prevented from playing, I was just pointing out that they aren't actually paying to keep the lights on, those of us who purchase direct, who subscribe, we're the ones actually paying to keep the lights on. And that if the concern is that allowing ship upgrade tokens to go from T2 up to T3, T3 to T4, T4 to T5, T5 to T5U, T5U to T6, that's five tokens. 600 Zen per piece, and that's the same as a T6 outright, and a ship which may not have a T6 counterpart. And the player might still buy another T6 anyway (especially if they're a collector) It wouldn't actually be costing Cryptic anything, but would definitely open another revenue stream.
look at the price for the tier 5 galaxy then the price for the tier 6 version. you should see the flaw in your logic.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
*looks at the queues* Look pretty dead to me, guy, I hear, because people don't like the content or the interface to load them up
What if ISA or CCA stopped running? Serious question, no joke, what would happen? What difference would it actually make? Plenty of missions available to grind for the farming, I hear 'Tour the Federation' getting mentioned, but never looked into it myself.
I'm not a smoker, but consider this analogy: A group of people sitting in a circle taking a smoke then passing, eventually, that cigarette's going to burn out. Eventually, someone's going to have to kick in more tobacco and more papers, or even just produce matches or lighter to re-light the existing butt if it goes out.
Yes, grinder players are utilizing the zen Someone else has paid for, but that's a finite quantity, and Cryptic's needs are ongoing: They need injections of cash to keep the lights on, they can't keep 'sucking the ashes'.
except thats not even close to how the dil exchange works, it closer to someone doing some chores(the thing thats give dil) for that cigarette. or actual employment you give your time(in this case dil) for pay(zen). I don't even know where your getting the idea zen is that limited. and if you don't know what happen when the thing everyone does all the time dies then we're wasting our time here.
The dil and the zen is just changing hands and going from one to another (until the zen goes back to Cryptic) I'm not saying that it's That limited, just that it is finite, and Cryptic have ongoing needs and costs which they can't cover with dil or zen, but need $$s to take care of. So new cash injections are always going to be needed to keep things going, or pay for unexpected or additional expenditures outside of their plan.
Another example, it's quite possible to live on a fixed income: Welfare, inheritance stipend, whatever. Let's say $150 a week. Most weeks, that might be enough to cover everything (just) but say you rip the TRIBBLE out of your pants, or your cat has to go to the vet, or someone puts a brick through your windshield for the lols. The fixed income isn't going to be able to cover all the existing expences, and the unexpected eventuality. More money would be needed to take care of things.
look at the price for the tier 5 galaxy then the price for the tier 6 version. you should see the flaw in your logic.
I have no PC access at the moment, so I can't log on to check. Could you remind me of the prices? Last I checked, new T6 ships were 3000Z. What logical flaw are you refering to?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
*looks at the queues* Look pretty dead to me, guy, I hear, because people don't like the content or the interface to load them up
What if ISA or CCA stopped running? Serious question, no joke, what would happen? What difference would it actually make? Plenty of missions available to grind for the farming, I hear 'Tour the Federation' getting mentioned, but never looked into it myself.
I'm not a smoker, but consider this analogy: A group of people sitting in a circle taking a smoke then passing, eventually, that cigarette's going to burn out. Eventually, someone's going to have to kick in more tobacco and more papers, or even just produce matches or lighter to re-light the existing butt if it goes out.
Yes, grinder players are utilizing the zen Someone else has paid for, but that's a finite quantity, and Cryptic's needs are ongoing: They need injections of cash to keep the lights on, they can't keep 'sucking the ashes'.
except thats not even close to how the dil exchange works, it closer to someone doing some chores(the thing thats give dil) for that cigarette. or actual employment you give your time(in this case dil) for pay(zen). I don't even know where your getting the idea zen is that limited. and if you don't know what happen when the thing everyone does all the time dies then we're wasting our time here.
The dil and the zen is just changing hands and going from one to another (until the zen goes back to Cryptic) I'm not saying that it's That limited, just that it is finite, and Cryptic have ongoing needs and costs which they can't cover with dil or zen, but need $$s to take care of. So new cash injections are always going to be needed to keep things going, or pay for unexpected or additional expenditures outside of their plan.
Another example, it's quite possible to live on a fixed income: Welfare, inheritance stipend, whatever. Let's say $150 a week. Most weeks, that might be enough to cover everything (just) but say you rip the **** out of your pants, or your cat has to go to the vet, or someone puts a brick through your windshield for the lols. The fixed income isn't going to be able to cover all the existing expences, and the unexpected eventuality. More money would be needed to take care of things.
look at the price for the tier 5 galaxy then the price for the tier 6 version. you should see the flaw in your logic.
I have no PC access at the moment, so I can't log on to check. Could you remind me of the prices? Last I checked, new T6 ships were 3000Z. What logical flaw are you refering to?
on the first part. we are going in circles and I get the feeling thats not going to change so I'm gonna drop it.
a tier 6 is 3000z a tier 5 2000, tier 4 1500, tier 3 1000. see the pattern not only do they cost, not counting the very limited free ships, each level costs more. that idea while fine if a game was designed that way doesn't fit with sto.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Yep, this would be neat but it would stop people from purchasing and trying out more ships on their quest to find an ideal mix.
Sorry to say it but your "lots of zen" are probably zippo compared to the amount that currently bankrolls this game and which would stop if peeps could mix and match the ship of thier dreams and then leave it at that.
Edit:
It should also be noted that STO suffers a chronic case of power keep after 7 years. Fixed ship/boff layouts keep it at least a bit in line. A tier 6 scim with an lt. commander Intel seat instead of command would have some sex appeal tho.
Yep, this would be neat but it would stop people from purchasing and trying out more ships on their quest to find an ideal mix.
Sorry to say it but your "lots of zen" are probably zippo compared to the amount that currently bankrolls this game and which would stop if peeps could mix and match the ship of thier dreams and then leave it at that.
Edit:
It should also be noted that STO suffers a chronic case of power keep after 7 years. Fixed ship/boff layouts keep it at least a bit in line. A tier 6 scim with an lt. commander Intel seat instead of command would have some sex appeal tho.
[/q}
How many of you work for Cryptic? Your opinions are just that yours. Ideas and suggestions from paying customers need not be subjected to such scrutiny from the peanut gallery of free to play members.
So define 'lots of Zen'. Probably not what I'm thinking it is. I spend about US $100.00 per month on this game. I know people who spend far more per week than I do per month. So my idea of 'lots of Zen' may be just a little different from yours, lol.
So define 'lots of Zen'. Probably not what I'm thinking it is. I spend about US $100.00 per month on this game. I know people who spend far more per week than I do per month. So my idea of 'lots of Zen' may be just a little different from yours, lol.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Why give players the ability to customize their ships when they can just make variants of ships with different specialization seating?
Customizing BOff seating is about the same as upgrading lower tier ships to higher tiers. People would only fly certain things and not buy new shiny.
"I'm gonna upgrade my T2 Cruiser all the way to T6!"
New cruiser comes out.
"Not my Cruiser. Not gonna buy it. I'm content with my upgraded ship."
Basically the same idea.
"I love my Guardian, but I don't want Intel seating."
Changes to Command Seating.
New cruiser comes out that has Command seating.
"Don't need it. I got my Command Guardian."
New cruiser is NOT bought.
Making new variants = more $$$ for Cryptic which in turn = more content for players in the long run.
If someone has to buy an upgrade token each time they level up, that alone, could (depending on the price-point) add up to more than outright buying a T6 ship.
There are players, I'm not going to name and shame, but one of the most active posters on Online's facebook page, who posts Cryptic-defending stuff on almost every comment made which is critical of Cryptic, has openly admitted that he has never spent a penny of cash-money on the game, but grinds absolutely Everything. Someone like that isn't supporting the game financially at all or paying for T6 ships, but they're still making use of the game like everyone else. Every ship someone like that grinds for, is a ship not paid for. Not a case of 'don't need it, got my Command Cruiser', but a case of 'I'll get me some of that, but I'm not paying for it,' That's not paying to keep the lights on.
So to use your line, with players like that, new cruiser is NOT bought
You're also forgetting ship collectors. Those who buy ships because they WANT One, not because they Need one Players like that, will buy anything which is put out, because that's what they do. Even someone who has uplifted a T2 Centaur to T6, might still want to have other ships in their stable, just to have a bit of variety, or to round out a collection set.
Collectors like that, would balance against those who might grind, or uplift (and uplifters would still pay to do so) so I don't see that an upgrade option as leading to a fall in sales.
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
True, it is trading on 'floating' zen which Someone paid for and converted to dil or keys, but that doesn't lessen the fact that a player who does that, is still making use of the game, and only contributing their time, rather than putting their hand in their pocket and paying their way like others. They're using 'second-hand money', not putting their own money direct into Cryptic's pocket. To be fair, it is a very Ferengi mindset
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
*looks at the queues* Look pretty dead to me, guy, I hear, because people don't like the content or the interface to load them up
What if ISA or CCA stopped running? Serious question, no joke, what would happen? What difference would it actually make? Plenty of missions available to grind for the farming, I hear 'Tour the Federation' getting mentioned, but never looked into it myself.
I'm not a smoker, but consider this analogy: A group of people sitting in a circle taking a smoke then passing, eventually, that cigarette's going to burn out. Eventually, someone's going to have to kick in more tobacco and more papers, or even just produce matches or lighter to re-light the existing butt if it goes out.
Yes, grinder players are utilizing the zen Someone else has paid for, but that's a finite quantity, and Cryptic's needs are ongoing: They need injections of cash to keep the lights on, they can't keep 'sucking the ashes'.
except thats not even close to how the dil exchange works, it closer to someone doing some chores(the thing thats give dil) for that cigarette. or actual employment you give your time(in this case dil) for pay(zen). I don't even know where your getting the idea zen is that limited. and if you don't know what happen when the thing everyone does all the time dies then we're wasting our time here.
The dil and the zen is just changing hands and going from one to another (until the zen goes back to Cryptic) I'm not saying that it's That limited, just that it is finite, and Cryptic have ongoing needs and costs which they can't cover with dil or zen, but need $$s to take care of. So new cash injections are always going to be needed to keep things going, or pay for unexpected or additional expenditures outside of their plan.
Another example, it's quite possible to live on a fixed income: Welfare, inheritance stipend, whatever. Let's say $150 a week. Most weeks, that might be enough to cover everything (just) but say you rip the **** out of your pants, or your cat has to go to the vet, or someone puts a brick through your windshield for the lols. The fixed income isn't going to be able to cover all the existing expences, and the unexpected eventuality. More money would be needed to take care of things.
look at the price for the tier 5 galaxy then the price for the tier 6 version. you should see the flaw in your logic.
I have no PC access at the moment, so I can't log on to check. Could you remind me of the prices? Last I checked, new T6 ships were 3000Z. What logical flaw are you refering to?
on the first part. we are going in circles and I get the feeling thats not going to change so I'm gonna drop it.
a tier 6 is 3000z a tier 5 2000, tier 4 1500, tier 3 1000. see the pattern not only do they cost, not counting the very limited free ships, each level costs more. that idea while fine if a game was designed that way doesn't fit with sto.
No worries, I can agree to disagree to save circles ^_^
If the cost of an upgrade token was also scaled across the tier jumps, the overal price spent on a ship could easily exceed the 3000Z cost of a new T6. It would depend on the pricepoint.
And with regards the free ships, there've been a few instances where I've stuck with a particular tier ship, and upgrading the weapons and consoles, to progress through the next rank, when I didn't like that particular rank's freebie. Being able to pay 600Z for an upgrate token makes that T3 Nova fly a little further (and they really are a good little ship) and would certainly be a more user-friendly option for players who aren't down with the exchange, to keep that favorite ship going for a little longer. And it's STILL money in Cryptic's pocket. It's not taking anything from them, it's only adding a new revenue stream. By the time someone boosts their Nova to T6 and reached level 60, they may well want to try something else, and that's going to mean either T6 or a Fleet T5U to stay competitive with the leveled NPCs. I've tried some of the early mission at L60, with the original NX, and getting absolutely pasted. Back in a T6, problem solved. So anyone wanting new ships, is still going to have to pay for them. Again, it would only bring Cryptic more money, not reduce the income.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
So define 'lots of Zen'. Probably not what I'm thinking it is. I spend about US $100.00 per month on this game. I know people who spend far more per week than I do per month. So my idea of 'lots of Zen' may be just a little different from yours, lol.
The point please...
@frankocasio2 - Okay, time for the ELY5 technique. I'll use small words, okay?
I wanted to get some idea of how much money the OP thought was "a lot of Zen". I used what I spend per month as an example. Then, I thought of somebody I know who thinks nothing at all of spending US $1,000.00 per week on STO. So, by presenting the two examples I know of, I was hoping the OP could then offer a number which had a little more objective value than 'a lot of Zen'. That's all. Are you less confused now? Good. Glad to help.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Trolls need not reply.......
Why would they do that when they could just sell you a command version for 3000zen? And another intel version for 3000 zen.
This.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Trolls need not reply.......
Why would they do that when they could just sell you a command version for 3000zen? And another intel version for 3000 zen.
This.
Okay I guess I'll spell this out as simply as possible, take my Fleet T6 Manta it has two(2) universal Bridge officer spots one is Ensign the other Lt. Commander, one(1) Commander Tac, one(1) SCI Lieutenant, and one Lt. Commander/Command spot. All I want is to change my Lt. Universal into a Lt. Universal/Pilot Spot. why you ask so I can use Pilot abilities with my Universal Bridge Officer Spot. And no It will not Stop me from ever buying another Ship. why you ask, because If i see a ship I like I buy it that's why I keep around 8,000 to 10,000 Zen on my main toon at all times. and lastly when T7 ships come out, (at the rate things ave been going) all they would be is the same ship but with one(1) extra console slot, WOW when can I buy that... PASS. Now if you naysaying Trolls still want to shoot this down than so be it. but I will pay good money to have that option and one day it will come to fruition. remember the Nebula was asked for and people said it would never happen, it did, the T6 miranda was asked for and people said It would NEVER happen, It did, people asked for Borg ships, according to STO Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/perfectworld) the Devs are working on it off and on but don't like the way it works... to them I say look how Starfleet Command 3 did it. The fact is you bug them enough it will happen. So remember variatie is the spice of life, nothing stays the same forever.
I guess STO twitch page cant be posted.... that what was in between the "( )" they should fix that... unless that would cause some one to never buy a ship again.
Yep, this would be neat but it would stop people from purchasing and trying out more ships on their quest to find an ideal mix.
Sorry to say it but your "lots of zen" are probably zippo compared to the amount that currently bankrolls this game and which would stop if peeps could mix and match the ship of thier dreams and then leave it at that.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Well from what i can tell my idea is the next T6U because at the end of the day it is not that hard to change a Lt. commander universal into a Lt. commander Universal/Command. Just like how an Upgrade Token GIVES an extra console to a T5, so I don't see how hard or impossible it may be. I only see people that don't want the game to change. this is now my mission to get this to happen.
Trolls need not reply.......
Why would they do that when they could just sell you a command version for 3000zen? And another intel version for 3000 zen.
The argument that this would hurt ships sales is both false and misleading. I have passed on buying many a ships because they lacked the proper console slot. If the argument is I will not buy a ship because there are more options evaluable to me then your motives for making the argument are in question.
Are we going to pretend it was an accident they let the KT Connie have a nice clear selling period before announcing the TOS Connie? People ABSOLUTELY buy 'close enough' when perfect isn't available. Thenthey buy perfect too.
nikeix is right. People bought the Konnie, and then they bought the Connie when it came out.
I have neither. And I'm happy with that.
I don't need 'tokens' to change bridge officer slots. I purchase ships with the seating arrangement I like. Yes, many times it's 'close enough'. I don't have to have 'perfect', because 'closer' will always come along soon enough
I doubt you ever get them, too.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
There are certain ships like the Guardian Cruiser where its specialization slot makes no sense since there is nothing stealthy about a Guardian Cruiser. It would make more sense to change the Guardian Cruiser's Lieutenant Engineering/Intelligence slot to a Lieutenant Engineering/Universal slot.
I could see them, making a universal spec version of the universal boff seat. Where you could either choose what spec into that slot like one might with the universal seat, or maybe even more interesting mix an match boff abilities from the different specs. Maybe have some limitations on it, as I honestly could see having a dedicated spec seat able to use up to the stated seat rank, while a universal spec seat could use up to one seat under the stated seat ranking.
There are certain ships like the Guardian Cruiser where its specialization slot makes no sense since there is nothing stealthy about a Guardian Cruiser. It would make more sense to change the Guardian Cruiser's Lieutenant Engineering/Intelligence slot to a Lieutenant Engineering/Universal slot.
I could see them, making a universal spec version of the universal boff seat. Where you could either choose what spec into that slot like one might with the universal seat, or maybe even more interesting mix an match boff abilities from the different specs. Maybe have some limitations on it, as I honestly could see having a dedicated spec seat able to use up to the stated seat rank, while a universal spec seat could use up to one seat under the stated seat ranking.
this is what I am talking about, non Trolls giving great feed back to an idea now spread the word we can make Cryptic do this.
Comments
one flaw in your reasoning, to get anything from the cstore you have to play zen, to get "free" zen the easiest most common way is the dil ex. which needs somebody to pay for zen to trade. so someone did in fact pay for it, just not the person using it.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
you are vastly underestimating how useful just their time is. look at the queues, take away a large number of player then even ISA or CCA will stop running. and what about fleets? cut out players adding to that everything takes longer makes it harder to get gear. free player help the game paying people play the game. which keeps paying players paying. a dead game makes nothing.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
*looks at the queues* Look pretty dead to me, guy, I hear, because people don't like the content or the interface to load them up
What if ISA or CCA stopped running? Serious question, no joke, what would happen? What difference would it actually make? Plenty of missions available to grind for the farming, I hear 'Tour the Federation' getting mentioned, but never looked into it myself.
I'm not a smoker, but consider this analogy: A group of people sitting in a circle taking a smoke then passing, eventually, that cigarette's going to burn out. Eventually, someone's going to have to kick in more tobacco and more papers, or even just produce matches or lighter to re-light the existing butt if it goes out.
Yes, grinder players are utilizing the zen Someone else has paid for, but that's a finite quantity, and Cryptic's needs are ongoing: They need injections of cash to keep the lights on, they can't keep 'sucking the ashes'.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
except thats not even close to how the dil exchange works, it closer to someone doing some chores(the thing thats give dil) for that cigarette. or actual employment you give your time(in this case dil) for pay(zen). I don't even know where your getting the idea zen is that limited. and if you don't know what happen when the thing everyone does all the time dies then we're wasting our time here.
look at the price for the tier 5 galaxy then the price for the tier 6 version. you should see the flaw in your logic.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Another example, it's quite possible to live on a fixed income: Welfare, inheritance stipend, whatever. Let's say $150 a week. Most weeks, that might be enough to cover everything (just) but say you rip the TRIBBLE out of your pants, or your cat has to go to the vet, or someone puts a brick through your windshield for the lols. The fixed income isn't going to be able to cover all the existing expences, and the unexpected eventuality. More money would be needed to take care of things.
I have no PC access at the moment, so I can't log on to check. Could you remind me of the prices? Last I checked, new T6 ships were 3000Z. What logical flaw are you refering to?
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
on the first part. we are going in circles and I get the feeling thats not going to change so I'm gonna drop it.
a tier 6 is 3000z a tier 5 2000, tier 4 1500, tier 3 1000. see the pattern not only do they cost, not counting the very limited free ships, each level costs more. that idea while fine if a game was designed that way doesn't fit with sto.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
The point please...
Trolls need not reply.......
If the cost of an upgrade token was also scaled across the tier jumps, the overal price spent on a ship could easily exceed the 3000Z cost of a new T6. It would depend on the pricepoint.
And with regards the free ships, there've been a few instances where I've stuck with a particular tier ship, and upgrading the weapons and consoles, to progress through the next rank, when I didn't like that particular rank's freebie. Being able to pay 600Z for an upgrate token makes that T3 Nova fly a little further (and they really are a good little ship) and would certainly be a more user-friendly option for players who aren't down with the exchange, to keep that favorite ship going for a little longer. And it's STILL money in Cryptic's pocket. It's not taking anything from them, it's only adding a new revenue stream. By the time someone boosts their Nova to T6 and reached level 60, they may well want to try something else, and that's going to mean either T6 or a Fleet T5U to stay competitive with the leveled NPCs. I've tried some of the early mission at L60, with the original NX, and getting absolutely pasted. Back in a T6, problem solved. So anyone wanting new ships, is still going to have to pay for them. Again, it would only bring Cryptic more money, not reduce the income.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
@frankocasio2 - Okay, time for the ELY5 technique. I'll use small words, okay?
I wanted to get some idea of how much money the OP thought was "a lot of Zen". I used what I spend per month as an example. Then, I thought of somebody I know who thinks nothing at all of spending US $1,000.00 per week on STO. So, by presenting the two examples I know of, I was hoping the OP could then offer a number which had a little more objective value than 'a lot of Zen'. That's all. Are you less confused now? Good. Glad to help.
See Below.
This.
Okay I guess I'll spell this out as simply as possible, take my Fleet T6 Manta it has two(2) universal Bridge officer spots one is Ensign the other Lt. Commander, one(1) Commander Tac, one(1) SCI Lieutenant, and one Lt. Commander/Command spot. All I want is to change my Lt. Universal into a Lt. Universal/Pilot Spot. why you ask so I can use Pilot abilities with my Universal Bridge Officer Spot. And no It will not Stop me from ever buying another Ship. why you ask, because If i see a ship I like I buy it that's why I keep around 8,000 to 10,000 Zen on my main toon at all times. and lastly when T7 ships come out, (at the rate things ave been going) all they would be is the same ship but with one(1) extra console slot, WOW when can I buy that... PASS. Now if you naysaying Trolls still want to shoot this down than so be it. but I will pay good money to have that option and one day it will come to fruition. remember the Nebula was asked for and people said it would never happen, it did, the T6 miranda was asked for and people said It would NEVER happen, It did, people asked for Borg ships, according to STO Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/perfectworld) the Devs are working on it off and on but don't like the way it works... to them I say look how Starfleet Command 3 did it. The fact is you bug them enough it will happen. So remember variatie is the spice of life, nothing stays the same forever.
[/thread]
^^ This.
I have neither. And I'm happy with that.
I don't need 'tokens' to change bridge officer slots. I purchase ships with the seating arrangement I like. Yes, many times it's 'close enough'. I don't have to have 'perfect', because 'closer' will always come along soon enough
I doubt you ever get them, too.
this is what I am talking about, non Trolls giving great feed back to an idea now spread the word we can make Cryptic do this.
My character Tsin'xing