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Anyone else hate the changes made in season 13?

NPC's can now shoot torpedo's/beams and damage you all-the-while being outside the 10k range. Players can't. The special torpedo fired by NPC science vessels (wich can be targetable I do believe before season 13) can not be targeted. All powers are grayed out before the torpedo even hit's you. ( so much for the ability that supposed to destroy targetable torpedo's). I have read that torpedo's are now un-effected by gravity well and such. (which is idiotic being ships CAN be) But on the plus side of things. Cannons are getting the love they deserve. And the "heavy weapons" the escorts now carry is nice. What do cruisers and science ships get?
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,468 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    NPC's can now shoot torpedo's/beams and damage you all-the-while being outside the 10k range. Players can't. The special torpedo fired by NPC science vessels (wich can be targetable I do believe before season 13) can not be targeted. All powers are grayed out before the torpedo even hit's you. ( so much for the ability that supposed to destroy targetable torpedo's). I have read that torpedo's are now un-effected by gravity well and such. (which is idiotic being ships CAN be) But on the plus side of things. Cannons are getting the love they deserve. And the "heavy weapons" the escorts now carry is nice. What do cruisers and science ships get?

    No they don't fire beyond 10. There are only a couple of weapons that actually can do it. But please tell me why it's fair for players to vape ships, but not NPC's!?

    Torpedoes will not have anywhere near the amount of pull applied as they have way less mass than a ship. So although Grav Well should affect them, the actual effect is tiny and therefore Cryptic were correct in what they did.

    Cannons as they stand in-game are very wrong. They should not have the same range as Beams. They are short range, high burst damage dealers that should have a high rate of fall-off beyond a certain range as there is nothing sustaining the energy potential, unlike a Beam.

    Heavy Weapons gives Escort a 'special'. Cruisers got Command functions and Sci vessels get Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targetting, so they don't need anything else.

    As for the changes, I like them, but they do not go far enough to kill off uber-DPS. However, balance is now fluid and will continue for as long as it's required. This game lacks alot of 'physics' and 'engineering' common sense.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Terrans have always been meanies. In the Terran Battlezone, they can spam a deadly Quantum spread; and they have Tractor Beam Repulsers that can be equally deadly. But it's always been like that: you're probably just now noticing it because of MIA.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Heavy Weapons gives Escort a 'special'. Cruisers got Command functions and Sci vessels get Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targetting, so they don't need anything else.


    Plus, Cruisers generally already possess an 8th weapon, natively. Personally, I'm glad Escorts got some love again, too.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    it one-shots players because it does damage in excess of 500K...i've been hit by it twice since they broke the red alert enemy scaling (and still have yet to fix it); the first shot was around 650K, the second was around 800K​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Torpedoes will not have anywhere near the amount of pull applied as they have way less mass than a ship. So although Grav Well should affect them, the actual effect is tiny and therefore Cryptic were correct in what they did.

    Yeah, no.

    Physics 101: the force experienced by a mass due to gravity is proportional to the product of the masses of the two objects being considered divided by the square of the distance between their mass centers. (We're simplifying here by treating both objects as spheres--otherwise we have to do calculus.) The acceleration experienced is the applied force divided by mass, which means that the mass of the torpedo cancels out if you combine the two equations. [Another way to look at it is that you get the same answer if you assume that one object (the gravity well) has the combined effective mass of the two objects, and the other (the torpedo) has unit mass.] Therefore, torpedoes experience the same acceleration as ships due to gravitational interaction at the same distance.

    Galileo showed this in the 17th century; Alan Shepard showed it on the Moon in 1971 using a feather and a hammer. If torpedoes deflect less than ships, it's due to their velocity (less time spent in the high-gradient part of the gravity well), not due to their mass.

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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    it one-shots players because it does damage in excess of 500K...i've been hit by it twice since they broke the red alert enemy scaling (and still have yet to fix it); the first shot was around 650K, the second was around 800K​​
    Actually, it seems they only broke it if you use the PvE queue window to enter the red alerts. If you enter the old way (in sector space), the enemies are scaled properly and not about 10 levels above you.
    #TASforSTO
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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    True about the tholian web cannon, but i find it more fun, as i have to be aware constantly where are the ships, and plan my attacks
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Terrans have always been meanies. In the Terran Battlezone, they can spam a deadly Quantum spread; and they have Tractor Beam Repulsers that can be equally deadly. But it's always been like that: you're probably just now noticing it because of MIA.

    This 100% ^^^^
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,485 Arc User
    it one-shots players because it does damage in excess of 500K...i've been hit by it twice since they broke the red alert enemy scaling (and still have yet to fix it); the first shot was around 650K, the second was around 800K​​

    My engineers and science captains tend to have enough shield/hull to withstand the Tholian mega cannon, but my tactical characters usually perish when hit. Then again, i'm usually in the flank or rear arc of the Tholians so i am rarely targeted.

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    What do cruisers and science ships get?

    Cruisers already have 8 weapon slots.

    Science ships got the secondary deflector slot back in 2015.
  • corelogikcorelogik Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    My reaction to the changes in Season 13,... <meh> didn't really affect me much. I don't min/max or chase DPS.
    "Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me
    "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,414 Arc User
    I've not been around long enough, but as I've heard, cruisers getting cruiser commands was to make them competitive with escorts a long time ago. Now that escorts have been boosted, I think it'd be fair if cruisers got something too to keep them on par, such as a secondary warp core as many have suggested.

    Sci ships are fine since they added secondary deflectors, which they can keep tweaking and making more powerful alongside better heavy weapons being released.

    Subsystem targeting is really just an extra locked tac boff station, and at least 2 cruisers have sensor analysis. Sci ships already have 1 less weapon slot than escorts if ignoring heavy weapons slot and sci dreads, so the secondary deflector was needed but should still be sufficient.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,251 Arc User
    The only thing I hate is the new UI which is not getting better with time.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,916 Arc User
    corelogik wrote: »
    My reaction to the changes in Season 13,... <meh> didn't really affect me much. I don't min/max or chase DPS.

    This for me. I have been able to boost the DPS of some of my mains to the absolute minimum (or slightly better) that will get me through content. I play strictly on normal and only go into CCA during the event because I use a lot of that purple mat you get. And my DPS is good to hold my own in there.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    I only have two gripes with season 13.

    #1 - PvE Queue UI is terrible. While at a glance it may look more organized, it is rather clunky and has limitations.
    a - One limitation is you must queue up all the missions you want to participate at once.
    b - You cannot see all the missions you queued up.
    c - You cannot create and start a private queue without the required number of player. That means you cannot solo The Big Dig since it requires a total of 20 players.

    #2 - Plamonic Leech nerf. Okay, it was a bit OP in the past with the amount of power it can transfer to subsystems, but reducing it to a max of 7.5 power per subsystem is a bit drastic. For Fed and KDF it is not that big of a deal, but it hit Romulan ships hard because the singularity core only provides 40 power to subsystems instead of 50 power in exchange for singularity abilities which I find to be situational abilities that I do not use very often. The exception would be the Adapted Romulan ships that have warp cores.


    That's about it. I am not in a fleet so I don't have fleet gear and I do not use any reputation gear other than a few torpedoes.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Well Cryptic promised more fun in their initial nerf it all post and I'm still waiting for the fun to arrive.
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  • kaarruukaarruu Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    The ground changes were mostly senseless; they reduced teamplay and turned stealth into a PvP wannabe gimmick with unnecessary positional hassles. Mandatory global minimum cooldowns, nerf nerf nerf. Mines arming faster is nice, mortars still take ages to deliver, even if they fire more often. Yeah, I haven't seen that promised fun on the ground. If anything, the ground game is a bit less fun to play now.

    Space is more of a mix. Some stuff needed to be nerfed. Some things were nerfed to the point that they're now nearly useless (plasma exploders got triple nerfed when a lighter touch would've left them viable but not must-have). What was the point in increasing cannon firing cycle? Proc-based turret builds are now garbage. Player investment retains value where exactly? In vendoring upgraded gear?

    The PvE UI... I have no words. Okay, that's a lie, I do have words. This could be an improvement over the old one, but it needs tweaks and it needs them yesterday. It's not a thing they can take their sweet time doing or leave half-assed like usual. It needs to work. No ninja pops shanghaing us without warning, no mysteriously being dropped from queue, no click-click-clicking to check if there's a realistic hope of getting a pop soon or if you're better off logging. Fix the obvious issues, add a favorites tab and call it a day.
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  • bossheisenbergbossheisenberg Member Posts: 603 Arc User
    "Cannons are getting the love they deserve" Huh?? They nerfed the firing rate, which was one of the only great advantages cannons had, they wrecked DEM which was one of the great eng. abilities to go with cannons, they still have not allowed cannon abilities to start at ensign, and I'm pretty sure CRF got busted down too. Where's the love for cannons part that I missed?
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    Science (and carriers) ships get a subsystem targeting that is more then a ribbon ability (universal CD was dropped to 45 seconds which means you can fire off a different ST once every 15 seconds, and the ability was changed to effect cannons and so on).
  • bossheisenbergbossheisenberg Member Posts: 603 Arc User
    kaarruu wrote: »
    The ground changes were mostly senseless; they reduced teamplay and turned stealth into a PvP wannabe gimmick with unnecessary positional hassles. Mandatory global minimum cooldowns, nerf nerf nerf. Mines arming faster is nice, mortars still take ages to deliver, even if they fire more often. Yeah, I haven't seen that promised fun on the ground. If anything, the ground game is a bit less fun to play now.

    Space is more of a mix. Some stuff needed to be nerfed. Some things were nerfed to the point that they're now nearly useless (plasma exploders got triple nerfed when a lighter touch would've left them viable but not must-have). What was the point in increasing cannon firing cycle? Proc-based turret builds are now garbage. Player investment retains value where exactly? In vendoring upgraded gear?

    The PvE UI... I have no words. Okay, that's a lie, I do have words. This could be an improvement over the old one, but it needs tweaks and it needs them yesterday. It's not a thing they can take their sweet time doing or leave half-assed like usual. It needs to work. No ninja pops shanghaing us without warning, no mysteriously being dropped from queue, no click-click-clicking to check if there's a realistic hope of getting a pop soon or if you're better off logging. Fix the obvious issues, add a favorites tab and call it a day.

    I thought the cannon firing cycle was decreased from 3 seconds to 5?
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    Well Cryptic promised more fun in their initial nerf it all post and I'm still waiting for the fun to arrive.

    It's coming in a R&D Promo soon.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,468 Arc User

    kaarruu wrote: »
    The ground changes were mostly senseless; they reduced teamplay and turned stealth into a PvP wannabe gimmick with unnecessary positional hassles. Mandatory global minimum cooldowns, nerf nerf nerf. Mines arming faster is nice, mortars still take ages to deliver, even if they fire more often. Yeah, I haven't seen that promised fun on the ground. If anything, the ground game is a bit less fun to play now.

    Space is more of a mix. Some stuff needed to be nerfed. Some things were nerfed to the point that they're now nearly useless (plasma exploders got triple nerfed when a lighter touch would've left them viable but not must-have). What was the point in increasing cannon firing cycle? Proc-based turret builds are now garbage. Player investment retains value where exactly? In vendoring upgraded gear?

    The PvE UI... I have no words. Okay, that's a lie, I do have words. This could be an improvement over the old one, but it needs tweaks and it needs them yesterday. It's not a thing they can take their sweet time doing or leave half-assed like usual. It needs to work. No ninja pops shanghaing us without warning, no mysteriously being dropped from queue, no click-click-clicking to check if there's a realistic hope of getting a pop soon or if you're better off logging. Fix the obvious issues, add a favorites tab and call it a day.

    I thought the cannon firing cycle was decreased from 3 seconds to 5?

    Yup, but they added more shots per cycle however, which people are forgetting.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    "Cannons are getting the love they deserve" Huh?? They nerfed the firing rate, which was one of the only great advantages cannons had, they wrecked DEM which was one of the great eng. abilities to go with cannons, they still have not allowed cannon abilities to start at ensign, and I'm pretty sure CRF got busted down too. Where's the love for cannons part that I missed?
    I have read that they are more deadly at close range then they were. So if what I read is wrong. Then I stand corrected.
    As for being fired on by ships outside the 10k range, that happens with all NPC's I have been in countless battles where I am getting hit from behind. I check to see what is there. All NPC's where outside of the 10k range. Sometimes at 15k. Yet I see there torpedoes/cannons/beams continue to hit my ship causing damage.

    That happens to me in MIA a lot too.
    Also I have noticed that, say my forward shield facing is getting hit. But instead of that failing, my aft facing does. It seems like no matter what facing gets hit, it's the opposite one that fails. (before tac team is used) This doesn't happen all the time. But frequently.

    I'm guessing that, once out of range, fired weapons (no longer being updated with new data) just continue on a fixed trajectory, as it were (as in: they were going to hit you in aft, when you last were in range, so now still will, even if you did a full turnabout).
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    "Cannons are getting the love they deserve" Huh?? They nerfed the firing rate, which was one of the only great advantages cannons had, they wrecked DEM which was one of the great eng. abilities to go with cannons, they still have not allowed cannon abilities to start at ensign, and I'm pretty sure CRF got busted down too. Where's the love for cannons part that I missed?
    I have read that they are more deadly at close range then they were. So if what I read is wrong. Then I stand corrected.
    As for being fired on by ships outside the 10k range, that happens with all NPC's I have been in countless battles where I am getting hit from behind. I check to see what is there. All NPC's where outside of the 10k range. Sometimes at 15k. Yet I see there torpedoes/cannons/beams continue to hit my ship causing damage.
    Also I have noticed that, say my forward shield facing is getting hit. But instead of that failing, my aft facing does. It seems like no matter what facing gets hit, it's the opposite one that fails. (before tac team is used) This doesn't happen all the time. But frequently.
    Weapon attacks are resolved when fired, the bullets flying the distance are just for show. It doesn't matter what you do afterwards, if the game has determined the shot hits your rear it's going to hit your rear no matter what you do or where you go.
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