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Are Projectiles overpowered?

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  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    In my personal experience, there are players who just can't wait to tell you how to restructure your build.
    A simple throwaway comment during The Breach (normal) resulted in a one hour lecture on build improvement.

    Then there are buildflamers, players who like to start fights because even if you give reasons for not using "their awesome skills", you've offended them and it gets unpleasant.
    The last one was also motivated by the Breach, I refused to use a specific science skill because it would force me to give up Tractor Beam 2 to slot it and it got nasty.

    From the upcoming Privateer Lockbox:
    A Parting Gift
    While this trait is slotted, Tractor Beam reduces the target's damage resistance and will leave behind a warhead that detonates after a few seconds, knocking engines offline for a brief period.

    If I can use this trait, it might be another way to create projectiles.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    So just found this topic. Are you trying to run a beam build with a torpedo slotted too? Or a full torp build? Or just trying to use torp based console attacks?

    Because each of those will play and build quite differently.

    Without knowing what sort of build you're trying to run with it's hard to offer advice or fully discuss ways to improve etc.
    A full torp build can be lethal, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Even having a single torp fore/aft can be pretty viable unless you're going for some sort of DPS record.
    And the parse you posted was 10K, which is pretty decent for an ISA run in fairness. That'll get you through most advanced content.
    SulMatuul.png
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Mostly this topic is intended to get an unbiased opinion, to find out if projectiles are indeed overpowered as was claimed.
    So far, the consensus is that they aren't.


    @lordsteve1
    The build I was thinking about doesn't exist ingame at this point, so it's impossible to advise me on something that can't be done.
    I won't say more because it ended in flamewars both times I tried to discuss it.

    Hypothetically, what I want is a console that can fire torpedo spreads once every 8-10 seconds.
    They will never make this console, so the Voth spatial charge launcher is the next best substitute.

    Traits might be another way to go, but I have to be careful in selecting those, since they might result in me having to remove traits that I actually need.
    I still haven't assessed A Parting Gift yet, to see if it can be incorporated without compromising my trait choices.

    I'm wary about discussing my build at all, because it also results in flamewars.
    Apparently mmo buildmonkeys aren't very tolerant of someone who doesn't go for the "maxed dps build".
    Some of the arguments I've seen have been truly ludicrous, like insulting someone for using plasma or tetryon instead of disruptors.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    Mostly this topic is intended to get an unbiased opinion, to find out if projectiles are indeed overpowered as was claimed.
    So far, the consensus is that they aren't.


    @lordsteve1
    The build I was thinking about doesn't exist ingame at this point, so it's impossible to advise me on something that can't be done.
    I won't say more because it ended in flamewars both times I tried to discuss it.

    Hypothetically, what I want is a console that can fire torpedo spreads once every 8-10 seconds.
    They will never make this console, so the Voth spatial charge launcher is the next best substitute.

    Traits might be another way to go, but I have to be careful in selecting those, since they might result in me having to remove traits that I actually need.
    I still haven't assessed A Parting Gift yet, to see if it can be incorporated without compromising my trait choices.

    I'm wary about discussing my build at all, because it also results in flamewars.
    Apparently mmo buildmonkeys aren't very tolerant of someone who doesn't go for the "maxed dps build".
    Some of the arguments I've seen have been truly ludicrous, like insulting someone for using plasma or tetryon instead of disruptors.
    The closest you can get to that at the moment is the Delphic Distortion torpedo shoots extra torpedoes off with high yield and con fire power lets you shoot high yield off every few seconds.
  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I run mostly Elite and Advanced queues in Science ships (2 tac officer slots often, sometimes three) and I believe that they are not OP. Even when I run them on Tac ships. Sometimes I'll stay away from Elite queues because I'm not doing enough damage, (due to mission benchmarks) for a variety of reasons and that is really too bad. Some torpedoes have the capacity to do lots of sci magic or dps when properly supported. In the new Competitive queues some can sit and spam weapons fire in wide arcs while I must hustle to drop my fore and backwards firing aft 90 degree ordinance and still have to deal with shield resistances; that is not the mark of an OP weapon in my opinion. I honestly think some of what is determined as OP might be influenced by the level of difficulty playing.

    Running only torpedoes can be different from running mixed Energy/Torpedo builds, and I only run torpedoes.
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    I am specifically looking for a console, not an equippable projectile weapon.
    It's got to be something that can function on it's own independently without needing anything else to modify it.

    Heavy Weapon projectiles aren't up for consideration, because none of my ships have a HW slot.


    I did manage to add the Parting Gift trait to my spec, but it took my last available ship trait slot.
    I'm still trying to work out how this trait deploys the warhead.
    I've only done a few limited tests, but it looks like it might do it via transporter, because I don't see an actual torpedo fly out.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    tilarta wrote: »
    I am specifically looking for a console, not an equippable projectile weapon.
    It's got to be something that can function on it's own independently without needing anything else to modify it.

    Heavy Weapon projectiles aren't up for consideration, because none of my ships have a HW slot.


    I did manage to add the Parting Gift trait to my spec, but it took my last available ship trait slot.
    I'm still trying to work out how this trait deploys the warhead.
    I've only done a few limited tests, but it looks like it might do it via transporter, because I don't see an actual torpedo fly out.

    I'm not sure about a console that could do that. I certainly could be overlooking something as I'm not familiar with many lockbox consoles or consoles for purchase.

    If I wanted to maximize TS, my first thought would be to only use crafted torpedoes with a [Spr] modifier. So that would be 6 torpedoes on a Sci ship with each torpedo having a Spr mod; 8 on a Cruiser; 6, 7. or more on Tac ships. From what I remember reading on reddit I believe the Spr proc could take a TS special attack; however, I certainly could be wrong.

    During the Lukari rep. I ran an all plasma torpedo boat (breaking a few rules I came across over the years) using plasma torpedoes with the [Spr] mod aft (3 aft torpedoes). The special tac. attack I slotted was HY 2. I ran the PEP, Omega, and Romulan Plasma torpedoes fore.
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    I am specifically looking for a console, not an equippable projectile weapon.
    It's got to be something that can function on it's own independently without needing anything else to modify it.

    Heavy Weapon projectiles aren't up for consideration, because none of my ships have a HW slot.


    I did manage to add the Parting Gift trait to my spec, but it took my last available ship trait slot.
    I'm still trying to work out how this trait deploys the warhead.
    I've only done a few limited tests, but it looks like it might do it via transporter, because I don't see an actual torpedo fly out.
    This is most likely no good for you as it’s a trait but there is “Stay On Target” which auto fires a torpedo in a forward arc every 4 seconds even if you don’t have a torpedo fitted.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Oh, I have Stay On Target already.
    It's one of the reasons I ran out of Trait Slots, it was taking up one of them!

    Was kindof a frustrating experience to obtain though, I had to take a specific T6 Escort to T5 to make it universally accessible for all my ships.
    And I had to do it 4 times over, for each character.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    Answer: No.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    Hypothetically, what I want is a console that can fire torpedo spreads once every 8-10 seconds.
    They will never make this console, so the Voth spatial charge launcher is the next best substitute.
    I'm not sure you can get the cooldown of Torpedo: Spread below 15 seconds, so it seems unlikely Cryptic will make an activatable console with a cooldown lower than that. They typically make consoles with a cooldown of 1 minute or more .

    The next closest console would be the Torpedo Point Defense System (fires 6 photons at a target; up to 8 separate targets), but you can only equip that console on a Heavy Escort Carrier. It has a 2 minute cooldown (same as the Voth spacial charge launcher).
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Rapid Reload Transphasic Launcher
    It was the torpedo I was using for my data gathering exercise.
    Since it's the only torpedo I've ever used, I didn't know the cooldown was 15 seconds on average.

    No Romulan or KDF version of the Torpedo Point Defense Console?
    Well, that makes it pointless, I only use consoles that can be used on all factions.
    I don't like giving abilities to one faction and not being able to have them on the others.

    Yes, I am getting a bit annoyed with the way some consoles are limited to ship types.
    I acquired this console as an experiment, only to discover I couldn't use it.
    I misinterpreted Battle Cruiser as Assault Cruiser. :'(

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    Rapid Reload Transphasic Launcher
    It was the torpedo I was using for my data gathering exercise.
    Since it's the only torpedo I've ever used, I didn't know the cooldown was 15 seconds on average.

    No Romulan or KDF version of the Torpedo Point Defense Console?
    Well, that makes it pointless, I only use consoles that can be used on all factions.
    I don't like giving abilities to one faction and not being able to have them on the others.

    Yes, I am getting a bit annoyed with the way some consoles are limited to ship types.
    I acquired this console as an experiment, only to discover I couldn't use it.
    I misinterpreted Battle Cruiser as Assault Cruiser. :'(
    What he means is there is a limit to how fast you can use torpedo spread. It’s not possible to use spread faster than once every 15seconds. There is a hard cap on the speed so that’s as fast as you can make it. He was saying that to point out how unlikely a console versions would be at 8 to 10 seconds.

    I thought there was a rom and KDF version of the defense console. Wasn't it inside one of those cross faction console box's? I could be wrong on that.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    What about the Universal - Point Defense Bombardment Warhead which repeatedly bombards torpedoes till it reaches its target and works on any ship? 2 min recharge which can be lowered by 50% if you fit the 3 part set.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Unforunately, I can't really use sets anymore, because:
    ShipConsoles_zpsumqi6q4u.png
    I admit it, I went a little bit too far equipping sets.
    But it makes the ships fun/unique, so I don't regret doing it.

    The Scimitar is particularly problematic, all it's consoles with the exception of the Spatial Charge Launcher belong to sets, so if even one gets pulled, I've just removed a set bonus.

    So it's got to be a console that can function independently, without having/needing set bonuses.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    Unforunately, I can't really use sets anymore, because:
    ShipConsoles_zpsumqi6q4u.png
    I admit it, I went a little bit too far equipping sets.
    But it makes the ships fun/unique, so I don't regret doing it.

    The Scimitar is particularly problematic, all it's consoles with the exception of the Spatial Charge Launcher belong to sets, so if even one gets pulled, I've just removed a set bonus.

    So it's got to be a console that can function independently, without having/needing set bonuses.
    It does function independently. Without the set bonus its just like the spatial charge only more torpedo spread like.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Apologies for the misinterpretation.
    I thought you were advising me to use the 3 piece set to get the cooldown value closer to my target value.

    Is the Point Defense Warhead still available?
    I think there are players who just keep these items to sell after the source lockbox is discontinued.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Just checked and I was wrong. Too many consoles which similar names sorry I got confused there is no console pack. There are 3 consoles

    Point Defence Bombardment Warhead
    Torpdeo Point Defense System
    Point Defense System

    All different.

    The Point defense system you can get for KDF/ROM via consoles pack which is cheap at 1million EC and is fun to use but phazer based. The Torpedo point defense system is from the Heavy Escort Carrier in the Cstore. While the Point Defense Bombardment Warhead is from the NX Escort Refit in the lobi store or you can buy the ship on the market.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Thank you for providing the clarification.
    I don't think you were wrong about the cooldown though:
    Synergistic Retrofitting Set
    Set 3: Overcharged Components: +50% Recharge Speed for all consoles in this set

    Unfortunately, I can't afford to spend my EC on market ships.
    Because I'm trying to save up to buy a Tholian Tarantula. And that is a very costly ship to buy on exchange. :'(
    I don't really bother with Lobi, it's just a gimmick to "incentivize" lockboxes.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • mineverdisplaymineverdisplay Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    this threat Figure out how eng and taks are overpowered, so they use to kill all last science possibilities to Play this game, science are nerfed in all Point, a science is less playable, so now our god patched engs and taks want nerf on Torpedos.
    learn playin, torps are not op you can not Play, that you taks and engs never learned playin, you always try to manipulate the game and asking sto to patch your personal defects. as a science you have to Play really, and torps are last possibility for science chars to Play this game, after constant sience nerf from Season 1-13, you want now delet last Change for science to Play this game. you, community trolls, engs, and tacs, you are op not torps,
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    @wardcalis
    Apparently what you consider cheap isn't my definition of cheap.
    450 crystals per warheadx4 characters=1800 crystals.
    I'm basing that estimate on what my Romulan can see, I don't know how much the PDB warhead would cost a Starfleet character.

    And for the record, I disregard all BOFF skill recommendations now, due to a certain Vinegar who got argumentative because I didn't want to use the loadout they insisted I must have.
    Kemocite Weaponry and Distrubuted Targeting are BOFF skills.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
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