Dormant PvE's

eazzie · March 2017

There are way too many dormant PvE's in game now for both ground and space. Is it about time some get retired, or the ones that do get played, but not that often get a make over to give a fresh new perspective. ie change objectives, remove objectives in favor of new ones etc.

Unknown · March 2017

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peterconnorfirst · March 2017

Removing content is bad. If it isn’t played it is because the effort/reward ratio is not right. Every map has it's price. If not make it more fun to play. Cryptic did a good job with breach there I really think they could improve upon.

One should also note that we play a game where we earn Dil on mass for basically doing nothing. I begin to have my doubt that there will ever be an acceptable effort/reward ratio for everybody as the word “effort” does not seem to be a word that sits well with major parts of this community.

Bringing live to queues would mean remove Dil rewards from story missions and battle zones. It was that way a few years ago and the queues where full. Nowadays this would not work anymore because we would turn the word “effort” into something mandatory if you want f2p zen stuff.

The community could not handle it and would leave to play even more trivial mobile phone games. I mean...

szim · March 2017

Why would they ever remove queues except for reworking them? There's nothing to be gained from it. They are however considering introducing a rotation of queues. They were not yet sure if it's simply gonna be a rotation of featured queues while all others would still be playable or if they would make the other queues unavailable till they themselves are featured again.

It would definitely increase activity in the featured queues. But players woudn't take it well if their favorite queues could only be played for one week a month or something like that.

ssbn655 · March 2017

I really feel that there are far to many active PVE's and that many good ones get ignored due to the hurry up get it done for min effort max reward mentality that has come ot dominate the game of late. I wish that the PVE's were on a random active basis so a smaller number were offered for say a month then those active ones were pulled out of the mix for a month and a new random set were put into active status. I.E. March to April active PVE : ISA Space, CC, Breach (normal not event) April to May Active PVE : Base defense, BOTS ground, The Vault (March to April PVE's out of the random draw for April to May) May to June: March to Aprils back in the random draw and so on. you would get a nice random ortation and many of the current dead ones would be back in play as there wouldn't be a vast list of whats active. It's not removing anything this way.

warmaker001b · March 2017

They could pull a page from STO's earlier years. What STO used to do was every few hours was a rotation of queued instances where bonuses were applied to rewards. Originally this was stuff like The Vault Shuttle run and the original Mirror Invasion. I remember specifically the old MI event was great for XPs and people queued up like madmen when MI was on the clock. When the "mini-event" was on the clock, a gamewide fly-in message announced it.

"MIRROR INVASION IS UP!"
"YEEEAAARRRGGHH!"

What STO could do is do a similar thing. Rotate the different queues and highlight them. Give incentives, i.e. extra marks, xps, dil, whatever. Example:

4pm-5pm: Infected Space is the highlight, extra rewards
5pm-6pm: Undine Infiltration is the highlight (Ground)
6pm-7pm: The Cure Space
7pm-8pm: Brotherhood of the Sword (Ground)
Etc., etc.

There's a lot of queues so there's no shortage of rotation. The old rotation that the game used to have went on regardless of the time.

peterconnorfirst · March 2017

warmaker001b wrote: »

They could pull a page from STO's earlier years. What STO used to do was every few hours was a rotation of queued instances where bonuses were applied to rewards. Originally this was stuff like The Vault Shuttle run and the original Mirror Invasion. I remember specifically the old MI event was great for XPs and people queued up like madmen when MI was on the clock. When the "mini-event" was on the clock, a gamewide fly-in message announced it.

"MIRROR INVASION IS UP!"
"YEEEAAARRRGGHH!"

What STO could do is do a similar thing. Rotate the different queues and highlight them. Give incentives, i.e. extra marks, xps, dil, whatever. Example:

4pm-5pm: Infected Space is the highlight, extra rewards
5pm-6pm: Undine Infiltration is the highlight (Ground)
6pm-7pm: The Cure Space
7pm-8pm: Brotherhood of the Sword (Ground)
Etc., etc.

There's a lot of queues so there's no shortage of rotation. The old rotation that the game used to have went on regardless of the time.

I remember and you are right. Bringing such a rotation would really be worth a shot. Lining up for a map that isn’t my favorite is not my problem, waiting for it to pop however is.

Such a rotation would funnel the player base nicely and could even promote underused maps by a fair amount.

eazzie · March 2017

warmaker001b wrote: »

They could pull a page from STO's earlier years. What STO used to do was every few hours was a rotation of queued instances where bonuses were applied to rewards. Originally this was stuff like The Vault Shuttle run and the original Mirror Invasion. I remember specifically the old MI event was great for XPs and people queued up like madmen when MI was on the clock. When the "mini-event" was on the clock, a gamewide fly-in message announced it.

"MIRROR INVASION IS UP!"
"YEEEAAARRRGGHH!"

What STO could do is do a similar thing. Rotate the different queues and highlight them. Give incentives, i.e. extra marks, xps, dil, whatever. Example:

4pm-5pm: Infected Space is the highlight, extra rewards
5pm-6pm: Undine Infiltration is the highlight (Ground)
6pm-7pm: The Cure Space
7pm-8pm: Brotherhood of the Sword (Ground)
Etc., etc.

There's a lot of queues so there's no shortage of rotation. The old rotation that the game used to have went on regardless of the time.

I had forgotten about that .... great brainwave. I do think that some of the REAL old PvE's could do with a re working just to freshen them up.

risian4 · March 2017

Some of those 'dormant PVE's' have a better design than the average mission. Removing them would be a stupid move.

It's a ridiculous suggestion. Not enough people play a mission? Let's remove it so that no one CAN ever play it again.
Yeah, that will certainly fix the problem.

Can I get some Vulcans over here please? We badly need them.

risian4 · March 2017

And my comment isn't necessarily aimed at you, OP, but more to those who suggest removing content simply because they don't think it's interesting enough to keep it, in general.

It makes little sense to me to, if there is a problem where most people are only playing a handful of queues, remove all the other ones so that there is simply no other option anymore than to play those few queues.

Either introduce more interesting rewards (ones that you can only obtain by actually playing the queue, not through some kind of project or anything) or just allow us to start queues with less than 5 people. Or both, that might actually be the best thing.

angrytarg · March 2017

I would support the hourly/bi-hourly queue rotation for extra rewards or alternatively a reintroduction of rare tech drops to get special rewards not obtainable via default grinding.

alcyoneserene · March 2017

Strongly in disagreement about removal of content, especially end game content, unless the objective is to expedite the end of STO.

Queue rotation sounds great, perhaps in the sense of having proper rewards for length of mission, mission difficulty, and risk of failure so that it can compete with ISA/CCA/doffing/admiralty.

Unknown · March 2017

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sotsogm · March 2017

I like the putting queues into a rotation idea. Be a good excuse to play PvEs I never get to play because there's never anyone doing them. Even some I don't like that would be a good challenge for me, y'know?

alandoril1 · March 2017

One solution to the problem would be to make it so you get your choice of marks from whatever queue you play. That way there would be a reason to actually do them. That's an actual choice from them all, not just from a select few.

duncanidaho11 · March 2017

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Removing content is bad. If it isn’t played it is because the effort/reward ratio is not right.

Or that the PVE population can't be subdivided across the total number of available queues into sufficient teams. This is a more basic problem and one that fortunately found a solution 10 years ago by multiplayer FPS's (working with analogous systems). Namely, rotating weekend playlists with double rewards. In STO, that would translate to taking the truly dead queues and placing them in a publicized daily/weekly rotation with bonus marks/dil/experience awarded. That gives players the incentive and notice to actually play these dead queues without progressively subdividing the available PVE population (to the point where it can only support those queues which players cluster around).

There's no point in holding onto dead content for posterity's sake when other hosting formats are available. After all, Cryptic just tried out this type of thing with Sompek. It's only going to take one more step (ie. general application) to FINALLY get games of Mine Trap and Starbase Defense going again.

szim · March 2017

alandoril1 wrote: »

One solution to the problem would be to make it so you get your choice of marks from whatever queue you play. That way there would be a reason to actually do them. That's an actual choice from them all, not just from a select few.

That would actually mean to end to most of the queues. People would only play the ones with the highest reward/time ratio. Take Crystalline Catastrophy. Nobody really likes this queue but it's the most played queue there is. Why? Because you get more marks from playing 2 minutes of Crystalline Catastrophy than you get from a 20 minute long elite run.

duncanidaho11 · March 2017

szim wrote: »

That would actually mean to end to most of the queues. People would only play the ones with the highest reward/time ratio. Take Crystalline Catastrophy. Nobody really likes this queue but it's the most played queue there is. Why? Because you get more marks from playing 2 minutes of Crystalline Catastrophy than you get from a 20 minute long elite run.

And unless you achieve a truly inhuman level of balance across all queues, that will always be the case. Unless the queues are perfectly even, one will emerge as being the most favorable. You can try to whack it down if it becomes popular, but the next most favorable would only take it's place. Basically, you can't deal with what is ultimately a population problem through balance. You have to manage it.

thay8472 · March 2017

Change them back to the way they were. Back when players had to interact with one another to do X.

groomofweird · March 2017

Just increase the rewards for them, as a fleet we play many of the quiet 5 man queues but can never get a run for the really fun larger player required missions.
I remember when starbase fleet defense was always going, big fleet fun.

eazzie · March 2017

risian4 wrote: »

Some of those 'dormant PVE's' have a better design than the average mission. Removing them would be a stupid move.

It's a ridiculous suggestion. Not enough people play a mission? Let's remove it so that no one CAN ever play it again.
Yeah, that will certainly fix the problem.

Can I get some Vulcans over here please? We badly need them.

You quote me incorrectly. I did not say remove content. I said retire. Just phase them out long enough to bring them bavk out of retirement. Thus giving players to concentrate of the most current queues giving most current rewards and when there is a lull in new content start phasing back older queues with (hopegully a fresh new look.

risian4 · March 2017

Usually, retirement is permanent. At least that is generally the idea at the moment the decision is taken.

Anyway, whether permanent or not, removing content is not the solution.

risian4 · March 2017

If you already intent to return (something) at the moment you decide to 'retire' then it's just taking a break. At least that's what I thought.

Anyway, small misunderstanding between the two of us I guess.

legendarylycan · March 2017

anyone remember double EDC wednesdays? every wednesday was a different STF that rewarded the double EDCs

warpangel · March 2017

warmaker001b wrote: »

They could pull a page from STO's earlier years. What STO used to do was every few hours was a rotation of queued instances where bonuses were applied to rewards. Originally this was stuff like The Vault Shuttle run and the original Mirror Invasion. I remember specifically the old MI event was great for XPs and people queued up like madmen when MI was on the clock. When the "mini-event" was on the clock, a gamewide fly-in message announced it.

"MIRROR INVASION IS UP!"
"YEEEAAARRRGGHH!"

What STO could do is do a similar thing. Rotate the different queues and highlight them. Give incentives, i.e. extra marks, xps, dil, whatever. Example:

4pm-5pm: Infected Space is the highlight, extra rewards
5pm-6pm: Undine Infiltration is the highlight (Ground)
6pm-7pm: The Cure Space
7pm-8pm: Brotherhood of the Sword (Ground)
Etc., etc.

There's a lot of queues so there's no shortage of rotation. The old rotation that the game used to have went on regardless of the time.

Doesn't work, because CCA/ISA are so short they could give the new-style timed queues 10x bonus everything and they would still lose to the fast queues in reward over time.

What they need first is numeric rewards scaled to average completion time (like in Foundry missions), so that the base reward/time would be about equal in all of them.

Or there's always the option of adding unique rare drops that players have to play a specific queue to get. That generally works even if numeric rewards are unequal, as long as the drops are something players really want.

Unknown · March 2017

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legendarylycan · March 2017

warpangel wrote: »

Doesn't work, because CCA/ISA are so short they could give the new-style timed queues 10x bonus everything and they would still lose to the fast queues in reward over time.

i would say make it 17x, but then cryptic would nerf it and accuse everyone of exploiting *snirk*

leemwatson · March 2017

I have been calling for a return to the return of the hourly events for a while now, but I take issue with the fact that especially with the return of the Breach, which is now no longer any fun because of people skipping the trench run! Part of the opening dialogue is that 'we can deal them a death of a thousand cuts'. Now it's just an optional! What Cryptic should have done was to have the original first part where you could freely fly around the hull to take out hardpoints, then once enough damage was done, the ship became vunerable to to enter.

My main issue is people who think 'fun' is getting it done with as little effort as possible, especially those that still AFK. It's not fun in the slightest! It's STO Farmville! When the queue was originally launched, it was one of the best to play because it required tactics, such as dashing to free ships (which people STILL don't get) that will help them in the fight and not destroying the FAKE ? cores, again which people still shoot because they are using auto-fire (I still find it amusing that people don't realise the reason why these ? cores are in there....they are traps folks, designed to slow you down or destroy you!).

People seem more concerned about whether the reward after is worth it, compared to a 1 minute run of Crystal Cat, which needs to go as it's not up to standard now. When this was originally released, it had insane resistances and regen, and was hard to beat, but Cryptic nerfed it to what it is now.

What Cryptic needs to do is return back to decent challenges rather than satisfying farmers. Making things so easy now that grinding is rife is not the way to go. There are alot of decent queues out there now, and the players do share the blame on this because some aren't prepared to put the effort in because they have to actually participate!! When the original Borg queues were running before the Rep system was put in, it was alot harder to get equipment because you needed the salvaged tech (it was a random-chance reward) and those queues were always busy. If Cryptic had stuck to the same prinicple throughout, then I truly believe that all these queues would still be populated.

warpangel · March 2017

leemwatson wrote: »

My main issue is people who think 'fun' is getting it done with as little effort as possible, especially those that still AFK. It's not fun in the slightest! It's STO Farmville! When the queue was originally launched, it was one of the best to play because it required tactics, such as dashing to free ships (which people STILL don't get) that will help them in the fight and not destroying the FAKE ? cores, again which people still shoot because they are using auto-fire (I still find it amusing that people don't realise the reason why these ? cores are in there....they are traps folks, designed to slow you down or destroy you!).

I still find it amusing that people don't realize the fake cores are inevitably going to get shot by something...equip a science team, folks, and get over it.

trennan · March 2017

There is no way to fix the dead ques. Once, you reach T5 rep, you have no need for them, any more. Well other than gear chasing and turning marks in to dilithium.

The best way I can see for everyone to see this is simple. Remove CCA and fleet marks from all non-fleet queues. For this leave the fleet marks only in queues like Fleet Alert, Gorn Mine Field, and add them to Breaking the Planet and Big Dig. With those being the only ones where you can get fleet marks.

Because after all, that's why the Fleet Mark rewards exist in the queues, other than Fleet ones. To get people to do them.

starcruiser · April 2017

eazzie wrote: »

There are way too many dormant PvE's in game now for both ground and space. Is it about time some get retired, or the ones that do get played, but not that often get a make over to give a fresh new perspective. ie change objectives, remove objectives in favor of new ones etc.

I gave up and only logging for DOFFing. Otherwise, it is so boring again and again and again in here. Time to switch to Andromeda I guess for a while...at least till end of month.

Dormant PvE's

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