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Dual beam bank vs Dual Heavy cannons
carcosa
Member Posts: 161 Arc User
So someone just informed me that beams do much more dps than cannons, is this true? What would be the benefit of having cannons if they have such a narrow firing arc and do less damage than beams? Guess I might have to be changing my escorts with cannons over to dual beams in front...
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it a bit more complex then beams doing more dps. cannon narrow firing arc is cause they have higher base damage. duel heavys also have a innate critical severity bonus. beams are easier to keep on target do to firing arcs but that doesn't matter as much on escorts and other high turn rates ships. and while the ever beloved bfaw is still very, very powerful, crf and csv can tear through enemies easily.
note even turret which are the weakest weapons are viable with the right build in most content.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
range is the same for beams and cannon. only one weapon the whole game the Long-Range Destabilized Tetryon Heavy Cannon has anything besides a 10 km max range
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
No, they don't. In fact prior to the Captain Skill revamp cannons lost considerably more damage when shooting at distant targets compared to beams.
Cannons do higher damage in a narrower arc, but the cannon skills are also require higher ranked ability slots to use. You can do cannons, and do them well, but they're definitely more demanding to achieve the same results.
When it comes to the subject of DPS in space peeps have decided that the map ISA is the measuring ground. On that stage I found that beams do the easiest damage and also have the potential to do the most damage. Reason for that is the type of enemies we encounter as well as their distribution. On other maps like CCA or UAA things may look entirely different.
Now if you aim for ISA DPS my advice to you is to go for beams, if you only care for ISA partialy use the weapons that give you the most fun. I suppose with the exception of mines each and every weapon type shines somewhere but simply lacks elsewhere in STO.
I’d also like to volunteer that I use different weapon types on my 10 toons/builds. My personal ISA DPS record of 187k was done with dual heavy cannons while my highest dual beam score is 160k. Much of the whole thing is practice and I can’t help it to use cannons a lot as they are simply much more fun for me to play.
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Cannons and Beams are both viable, but as @peterconnorfirst beams typically parse higher on ISA. A big part of that is that simply put, Beams are more forgiving then Cannons due to their wider firing arc. Cannons require more pilot skill then Beams to get similar results but both are definitely viable.
I generally go with Beams just because I honestly kind of suck with Cannons. It's not the cannons fault, it's all me.. I'm just not very good with them. I can still handle any content with Cannons, I'm just going to be more effective using Beam builds. I recommed you play with both and see what you personally like better. You can always pick up some Green/Blue Mark XII's off the exchange just to play around and see what you prefer.
Neither one of them 'suck' though, so you're not going to have to worry about making a bad decision.
Didn't the Bio-neural Warhead have a 12km targeting range too?! Don't see it mentioned on the wiki, though,
15Km. It's a nice bulky escort for fighters.
Well, no, the Bio-neural warhead lets you launch beyond 10 km, out to 15km, in fact.
well I stand corrected, but thats I believe a torp... I actually have one but I never used it. can never find a good spot. I may have to change that at some point but I have too many things in the works as is.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
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... too bad it got somewhat too long cooldown for continuing this.
About Beams versus Cannons, another thing that you want to take care for: Subsystem Targeting (nifty weapon active ability normally included on Science Ships and most Carriers, also possible as BOFF power) is working only on Beams, Cannons are not profiting from it...
StarFleet Engineer
U.S.S. Diana
Alita Heavy Escort
Also I don't use cannons on my sci ships so I don't have to worry about subsystems targeting with cannons but good to know, thanks for all the responses.
When in doubt, go with your preferred play style. Slow ships should use beams. Fast ships might focus on cannons. Do you want to slog along and not have to do anything too much? use beams. Want to really get down to the nitty-gritty with a more interactive fighter-style of play? Use cannons. Believe me, it WILL affect how you play the game.
Careful though. Fighter-style of play using cannons and Escort-types can be a bit addicting once you figure it out. It's also harder to use than the battleship style of pew-pew-pew. You actually have to pay attention to what you and everyone else is doing.
Eh, the BNW is a bit dated at this point. Like a lot of the older gear, it is obsolescent in the face of ongoing power creep. The old Isokinetic Charge console is also in that category.
But they can still be fun with an alt you are leveling up. I recently dusted off my old Delta Recruit. She is now 40-something and using the BNW, which has been a lot of fun so far.
On my two builds I use all cannons in front, although different types. I tested quiet a lot the past years. Most of the things are common knowledge by now, others are not used by many.
- Terran DHC: Strongest gun in game in my opinion. Use it.
- Wide Arc DHC: For all energy types besides AP there are ones with decent mods around. Depending on your playstyle (and the Mods, where ARC mod does not even use up space) the wider arc leads to a similar high parse as the one of the the Terran DHC, sometimes even higher. Having a single wide arc DHC also has benefits on maps like ISA where the weapon enables better positioning left/right generators in correlation with the nanites. (You can point your nose at the most lucrative targets but still reach the nanites at the same time to bring them down.)
- DC over DHCs: While I noticed higher DPS via plasma explosions when using DCs over DHCs the benefit on ships with less than 3 Embassy consoles becomes close not noticeable. In my opinion the effect is a bit overrated but if one min/maxes why not here as well.
- Single Cannons. In an environment like ISA I found that single cannons often parse roughly the same as dual cannons do. I made my runs on ships with turn rates >20. It could be that on ships with a low turn rate and especially for players that don’t have much experience with cannons, single cannons outperform dual (heavy) cannons by a considerable amount.
Here are my current cannons builds as orientation if you like. They are working progress as usual.
Jem'Hadar Strike Ship (PvE cannon build)
Icarus Pilot Escort (PvE cannon build)
Here is the STO League’s recommendation to turn the new Breen ship into a cannon DPS monster.
STO League’s Breen Chel Boalg (Cannons)
Cool Build!
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First and formost, getting effective results from cannons is cheeper then getting it from Beams or Science. The raw damage potential of cannons, without pumping skills, compensating for power drain, or using abilities is simply better then beams and science and the weapons themselves are typicaly cheeper to obtain
Second, The limited arc on scatter volley is a good thing unless you have the resorces to realy push what its competition can do.
The firing arc allows you to direct and focus your damage upon fewer targets, this may be bad for an established player using the best of everything, but for some one still working on obtaining gear, spec points and reputation its not bad at all.
A week BfaW build may distribute its damage too evenly among too many targets, resulting in more of that damage being waisted when the targets regenerate their shields or hull, The less damage your capable of doing the more important it is to focus it.
Of course if your not leving targets alive to regenerate then a MegaWell or a BeamBuild will rule the roost, as the firing arc on cannons becomes a hinderance at this point.
I would cirtainly recomend cannons for leveling and establishing new characters. The leveling experiance is both faster and cheeper with them, and once you do hit max level they cirtainly arnt bad at all. There is a point past which no matter how well your doing with them, you could be doing better with somthing else, but that point is a fair ways ahead of most new level 60 characters so there is realy no rush.
to fidn that out I'd suggest u download a parser anbd measure ur dmg urself
test with DBBs and DHCs see with which u do more dmg
yes DHC have higher base dmg in exchange for narrower fiering arc and ALOS lose more dmg over range than beams
mistake most ppl do is stzay too far from targets
Beams are great for drawing aggro and hitting the whole map, but in most situations I want to control where my shots are going and cannons just allow that much better.
If you open up on a group with scatter volley you know you're only going to hit the targets within the small arc at the front/side/rear or whatever, whereas with BFAW you will be hitting targets all over the place. That's all well and good in a cruiser drawing aggro but on an escort I don't want to upset the whole map.
Fact is that "most" players use beams to just spam the whole map with shots, whereas cannons require a much more careful use, they are more of a precision tool.
StarFleet Engineer
U.S.S. Diana
Alita Heavy Escort
First, that's some great information.
I'm admittedly not very good with Cannons, so a question if I might?
I notice you don't use any traits based on your movement (Subwarp Sheath, Anchored, etc.) Do you typically get your targets lined up an 'park?' or do you prefer to stay moving for the bonus to defense? I'm playing around with getting better at canons, I'm just playing around with the playing style right now. I'm finding I typically do best if I stay moving, but I adjust my throttle to slow down to stay in 'firing position' longer, then kick it to full impulse when I am losing my position or need to re-locate. Does this sound similar to your style? I'm using the Icarus as my 'cannon ship' because I like having the 5 forward guns.
Thanks for the build links, my build is very similar to yours.
We have a pretty similar build on the Icarus (though mine is still a work in progress). I was considering the Heavy Bio-Molecular turret and the Hydrodynamics Compensator too but I haven't really decided on that yet.
I'm torn between Subspace Vortex, Tractor Beam Repulsors and Charged Particle Burst. On one hand, SSV can be really potent against GW'd enemies, but TBR lets me hit stuff that aren't on my arc, and is fairly spammable. Charged Particle Burst also procs Drain Infection, which on a Tac toon with a fair amount of EPG can translate to some pretty good numbers.
Choices....
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Cool, sounds like I'm on the right track then. I have been playing around with controlling my throttle and my results are improving in my Cannon builds. I usually find I'm right around 25% throttle, it lets me keep moving, but not so fast that I blow past my targets. I do tend to park a lot when I'm on an enemy flank, which is cool and all as long as I don't draw the attention of anyone else around me.
I have honestly never tried a front facing build on the Morrigu, I run single beams on mine. That might be fun to try, I'll have to give that shot next.