I'd suggest rewatching "Day of the Dove" for the Klingons, as it paints them in a much more nuanced light. Michael Ansara's stoical Kang is pretty much the archetypal honourable Klingon. Equally, both the Romulan episodes paint them in a very balanced light (in Balance of Terror, Mark Lenard's commander is portrayed very sympathetically). Hence by the time you got to FASA or ADB's games in the 70s and 80s, the Klingons and Romulans had proportionately more attention and balance than STO gives now.
For a 1960s show, Trek was very balanced about its villains...
Being honorable in no way makes someone less of a villain. Being portrayed sympathetically, also, in no way makes someone less of a villain if that's what the character is meant to be. Both are meant to make the audience feel something for those characters but it doesn't change what they are written to be. They were written as villains.
Actually they were less 'villains' and more 'antagonists' in most cases. Just because you are operating at cross purposes to Kirk, doe not make you evil.
Actually they were less 'villains' and more 'antagonists' in most cases. Just because you are operating at cross purposes to Kirk, doe not make you evil.
Except ToS was all about Federation imperialism, and colonialism, where Gene tried really had to push the idea that the Federation was morally, ethically, and divinely right, and everyone else was brutal savages.
the Klingons only became antagonists in the later ToS movies and TNG when they finally could dislodge Gene from any semblance of a position of power.
well sto is certainly keeping THAT dream alive -.-
read the mission plots, the federation is always portrayed in that morally, ethically, and divinely right light no matter how many you massacre in your blind aggression
well sto is certainly keeping THAT dream alive -.-
Like I said, I'd love if I could play a Romulan in something other than a Pro-Federation way. If they could kick both the Federation and the High Command out of the Dyson Sphere's and use that tech to make the Romulan's the undisputed masters of the quadrant, I'd be all for it.
That's never going to happen though because that's not how the main Star Trek canon is written. Any time any group that isn't the Federation rises up and might become a legitimate competitor, they first give the Federation a bloody nose, then they get slapped back down or "diplomatically" written off the table never to be heard from again. How much of a threat is the Dominion after the treaty was signed? What happened to the Maquis after a decently long episode arc? Even threats like the Borg deal some damage and then the Federation just launches a few future torpedoes at a transwarp hub arch and they're effectively stuck in the Delta Quadrant for a while. (and when they come back they'll get outdone again) The Klingon's and Romulan's are no different. They've "fallen into line" just like they would eventually do in the main universe canon as stated several times in the series whenever the "prime" future timeline is mentioned. (Barring the Q future which obviously never came to pass going by the movies)
The writing of the franchise and the spin off material is focused on the Federation. It always will be. There will be side books and side plots based on the other factions but the story is about the Federation. You can hate that all you want but that's the truth of it. I'm just happy I can actually play and be competitive using ships from one of my favorite factions and even occasionally get to Thalaron bombard my enemies like some galaxy hopping radiation king.
To be fair I wouldn't mind at all a recruitment promo deal like the AoY type for Klingon's and Romulan's. Would be great to do and provide those factions with more potential players. However everyone needs to realize that they'll never be the main spotlight because of the franchise itself. Don't stop asking for stuff like ships to fill in holes in terms of what's on offer or cool cosmetic things, but realize that at the end of the day Star Trek is a story about the Federation NOT the other factions.
So far we have had the Delta and Agents of Yesterday Recruits. Could we see a KDF Recruit in 2017? Judging from the K-13 Part 3 bit and the Winter Event Klingon Ice Fishing, I would say that might be what lies on the horizon.
Calling it! KDF Recruit.
As a player obsessed about balance, I won't create another character unless it's KDF, so I'm waiting for something like the OP's proposal to create what will be my last character. I don't mind so much flogging 7 characters thru special events, but I need one more KDF to balance my current 4:3 Fed/KDF ratio. This way, both fleets have the same number of 'toons, and they can collectively explore more ships and loadouts (this is where Crypic makes $$).
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
So far we have had the Delta and Agents of Yesterday Recruits. Could we see a KDF Recruit in 2017? Judging from the K-13 Part 3 bit and the Winter Event Klingon Ice Fishing, I would say that might be what lies on the horizon.
Calling it! KDF Recruit.
As a player obsessed about balance, I won't create another character unless it's KDF, so I'm waiting for something like the OP's proposal to create what will be my last character. I don't mind so much flogging 7 characters thru special events, but I need one more KDF to balance my current 4:3 Fed/KDF ratio. This way, both fleets have the same number of 'toons, and they can collectively explore more ships and loadouts (this is where Crypic makes $$).
If I got into specifics, we would not only be here all day, but it would hit word-limit and require a great MANY posts to finish covering. Fact is, it's a far, far, shorter list to cover the cross-faction missions where, in fact, a player-character's faction WERE taken into account, than to examine the ones which it was not.
It's easier, in fact, to define the 'line' where the writing went from being faction-agnostic, to Federation-propoganda, because guess what? when things first kicked off in 2011, the writing was less biased and one-sided weighted, than it is currently.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex.
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
If I got into specifics, we would not only be here all day, but it would hit word-limit and require a great MANY posts to finish covering. Fact is, it's a far, far, shorter list to cover the cross-faction missions where, in fact, a player-character's faction WERE taken into account, than to examine the ones which it was not.
It's easier, in fact, to define the 'line' where the writing went from being faction-agnostic, to Federation-propoganda, because guess what? when things first kicked off in 2011, the writing was less biased and one-sided weighted, than it is currently.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex.
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
*replays newest FE* I don't see any lines complaining I'm a warrior not a babysitter, nor joy at the thought of battle.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex...
Wow.
Did you just call out the "Keeper of the Book of Grudges"? You really WANT @patrickngo to recite the "Litany of Grief"?
I don't always agree with @patrickngo but they do keep very accurate accounts of why they feel as they do. Puts alot of effort into responses then other posters complain of "Wall o' Text" when they explain their position.
In any case, I would welcome a KDF recruiting event, but I would not expect it to happen. If only 14% of players actively play KDF characters, then even doubling that amount would not recoup their expenses. I assume that is why more effort is put into making Starfleet ships "kit-bash capable".
There's stuff that's really irritating when it comes to "cross faction " . For example : if you make a Reman character the dialogue you have with Obisek is no different from that you have as a human . Likewise if you go to new Romulus as a Romulan the scripted dialogue is no different from that with a human captain . if you look at the whole Iconian war chain , as a KDF character the dialogue you have with fellow KDF NPC's is no different from that as a FED character . I could go on and on .They could at least add some line to the replies you give as captain to the NPC's ( I can understand that recording new -faction specific - voice overs would be expensive but do it without audio then ) .There should be a distinct difference when you play as Reman with how the Obisek-chain plays ( not just in dialogue but the actual missions should be different ) . Why else bother choosing a faction ? They really need to address that issue
There is. There is even a specific accolade you can only get by talking to Obisek as a Reman.
But in general, there is no need to have any more racist dialogue in the game. With few exceptions like Obisek, the player's race should have no bearing on the story. Having characters compare forehead bumps all the time would be completely un-Trek thing to do.
Factions are origin stories and should be acknowledged as such.
that's the ONE exception. When you're klingon and you talk to anyone ( say during iconian war epsodes ) , regardless if they are KDF or not, the dialogues are identical to the ones you have as fed-character . That's ludicrous ( even from a continuity perspective) . The dialogues you have with KDF ambassador ( or Worf ) should be decidedly different if you're playing those episodes with KDF . It isn't even about the storyline- that can remain exactly the same - but about immersion . And that isn't about Racism ( where you get that notion ? ) . Let's give you an example : say you're an American on holidays in Europe and you meet a fellow american there . The dialogue you have with that person will be different from the one you have with the Italian waiter ... that has nothing to do with racism ,but is simply human nature .
There's stuff that's really irritating when it comes to "cross faction " . For example : if you make a Reman character the dialogue you have with Obisek is no different from that you have as a human . Likewise if you go to new Romulus as a Romulan the scripted dialogue is no different from that with a human captain . if you look at the whole Iconian war chain , as a KDF character the dialogue you have with fellow KDF NPC's is no different from that as a FED character . I could go on and on .They could at least add some line to the replies you give as captain to the NPC's ( I can understand that recording new -faction specific - voice overs would be expensive but do it without audio then ) .There should be a distinct difference when you play as Reman with how the Obisek-chain plays ( not just in dialogue but the actual missions should be different ) . Why else bother choosing a faction ? They really need to address that issue
There is. There is even a specific accolade you can only get by talking to Obisek as a Reman.
But in general, there is no need to have any more racist dialogue in the game. With few exceptions like Obisek, the player's race should have no bearing on the story. Having characters compare forehead bumps all the time would be completely un-Trek thing to do.
Factions are origin stories and should be acknowledged as such.
that's the ONE exception. When you're klingon and you talk to anyone ( say during iconian war epsodes ) , regardless if they are KDF or not, the dialogues are identical to the ones you have as fed-character . That's ludicrous ( even from a continuity perspective) . The dialogues you have with KDF ambassador ( or Worf ) should be decidedly different if you're playing those episodes with KDF . It isn't even about the storyline- that can remain exactly the same - but about immersion . And that isn't about Racism ( where you get that notion ? ) . Let's give you an example : say you're an American on holidays in Europe and you meet a fellow american there . The dialogue you have with that person will be different from the one you have with the Italian waiter ... that has nothing to do with racism ,but is simply human nature .
Quite likely. But how much of that difference would be because the other guy's italian and how much because he's the waiter? What would the difference be with an american waiter vs an italian one? To my knowledge, none of the NPCs make small talk. It's all business. How many people start their food order by asking where the waiter is from?
Again, how about giving an example from STO. A specific example would be easier to discuss than "When you're klingon and you talk to anyone." What inappropriate thing does an NPC say during the iconian war episodes?
As for the racism bit, we were discussing Obisek, who is clearly motivated by race. Race-specific dialogue is necessary and in-character there, but not everywhere.
Obviously, there could always be more choices for what the player character could say. There could be a hundred choices for what the player could say in a given situation and someone would still think that their character would say something else. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
If I got into specifics, we would not only be here all day, but it would hit word-limit and require a great MANY posts to finish covering. Fact is, it's a far, far, shorter list to cover the cross-faction missions where, in fact, a player-character's faction WERE taken into account, than to examine the ones which it was not.
It's easier, in fact, to define the 'line' where the writing went from being faction-agnostic, to Federation-propoganda, because guess what? when things first kicked off in 2011, the writing was less biased and one-sided weighted, than it is currently.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex.
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
*replays newest FE* I don't see any lines complaining I'm a warrior not a babysitter, nor joy at the thought of battle.
Well, I played it as an Orion. He doesn't do that honorable warrior thing. The dialog actually fit him reasonably well.
If KDF numbers DID grow, it would scare them to death, I suspect-because they don't have the ability to handle the additional work.
Team, budget and timeframe are just too small.
I don't think I agree. If the KDF grew and became increasingly more profitable, I believe they would expand to take advantage of that revenue.
If I got into specifics, we would not only be here all day, but it would hit word-limit and require a great MANY posts to finish covering. Fact is, it's a far, far, shorter list to cover the cross-faction missions where, in fact, a player-character's faction WERE taken into account, than to examine the ones which it was not.
It's easier, in fact, to define the 'line' where the writing went from being faction-agnostic, to Federation-propoganda, because guess what? when things first kicked off in 2011, the writing was less biased and one-sided weighted, than it is currently.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex.
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
*replays newest FE* I don't see any lines complaining I'm a warrior not a babysitter, nor joy at the thought of battle.
Well, I played it as an Orion. He doesn't do that honorable warrior thing. The dialog actually fit him reasonably well.
I'm goona regert this but is that supposed to counterpoint or just saying it works for you with the implcation that it should be good enough for everyone.
If KDF numbers DID grow, it would scare them to death, I suspect-because they don't have the ability to handle the additional work.
Team, budget and timeframe are just too small.
I don't think I agree. If the KDF grew and became increasingly more profitable, I believe they would expand to take advantage of that revenue.
Total pie-in-the-sky thinking here though.
I'm personally thinking they wouldn't and that kdf playerbase is very much how they want it. I'm also of the opinion their resouce problem is more a resouce mangement problem not amount of resouses. I meam yeah at their current size they probably can't do but so much better but they can do better.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
-The Fed/Klingon war was the result of the Federation being too stubborn to admit the Undine threat.
-Sela's hate of the Federation, and her plan to attack Vulcan, stems form the fact the Vulcan's knew about the Hobus star destabilizing, and did nothing to try to prevent it.
-Basically everything in the ToS era missions, the Yesterday's War arc, and the Future Proof arc, is the result of the Alliance attempting to play time god, and **** over other races in the process.
-In many ways, the Iconian War was the Alliance's fault because they broke every moral, and ethical, principle they stood for, and attempted to go back in time and commit genocide.
-While not spelled out, the Borg command ships being similar to V'ger, as well as the numerous other Star Trek stories about how the Borg are the Federation's fault, does lend some credence to the idea its the Fed's fault in STO also.
Basically the only things in STO that aren't the Fed/Alliance's fault are the True Way, the Breen, and the Devidians.
-You need to check your facts and the STO plot
-You need to check your facts and the STO plot, as well as the foundation of the Kelvin Timeline
-And the "Alliance" is pretty much just the UFP with a different tag. Don't belive it? Read the dialogue and notice how the NPC act.
-One can dance for a lifetime on the "ethics" of predestination paradox and the actions there in.
-Non-canon and no STO based info
also this is all very off topic and we should stop
If I got into specifics, we would not only be here all day, but it would hit word-limit and require a great MANY posts to finish covering. Fact is, it's a far, far, shorter list to cover the cross-faction missions where, in fact, a player-character's faction WERE taken into account, than to examine the ones which it was not.
It's easier, in fact, to define the 'line' where the writing went from being faction-agnostic, to Federation-propoganda, because guess what? when things first kicked off in 2011, the writing was less biased and one-sided weighted, than it is currently.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex.
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
*replays newest FE* I don't see any lines complaining I'm a warrior not a babysitter, nor joy at the thought of battle.
Well, I played it as an Orion. He doesn't do that honorable warrior thing. The dialog actually fit him reasonably well.
I'm goona regert this but is that supposed to counterpoint or just saying it works for you with the implcation that it should be good enough for everyone.
Well, I'm pointing out that the idea of writing KDF dialog as "honor and glory" doesn't fit most KDF races.
If I got into specifics, we would not only be here all day, but it would hit word-limit and require a great MANY posts to finish covering. Fact is, it's a far, far, shorter list to cover the cross-faction missions where, in fact, a player-character's faction WERE taken into account, than to examine the ones which it was not.
It's easier, in fact, to define the 'line' where the writing went from being faction-agnostic, to Federation-propoganda, because guess what? when things first kicked off in 2011, the writing was less biased and one-sided weighted, than it is currently.
In other words, you don't actually have any examples where the player character's faction should be taken into account but isn't, or of the alleged Federation "propaganda." This is just yet another playing of the usual KDF victim complex.
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
*replays newest FE* I don't see any lines complaining I'm a warrior not a babysitter, nor joy at the thought of battle.
Well, I played it as an Orion. He doesn't do that honorable warrior thing. The dialog actually fit him reasonably well.
I'm goona regert this but is that supposed to counterpoint or just saying it works for you with the implcation that it should be good enough for everyone.
Well, I'm pointing out that the idea of writing KDF dialog as "honor and glory" doesn't fit most KDF races.
don't take taking about honor and glory to be annoyed about a glorified babysitting job and being glad it actually time to do something. which is very in character for pretty all kdf races... as far as they have character anyway.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
-You need to check your facts and the STO plot
-You need to check your facts and the STO plot, as well as the foundation of the Kelvin Timeline
-And the "Alliance" is pretty much just the UFP with a different tag. Don't belive it? Read the dialogue and notice how the NPC act.
-One can dance for a lifetime on the "ethics" of predestination paradox and the actions there in.
-Non-canon and no STO based info
also this is all very off topic and we should stop
On Stardate 64333.4, a Romulan Mining Guild ship observed the start of a chain of events that would forever change the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. The star in the Hobus system, in the far reaches of Romulan space, began to exhibit massive fluxuations in radiation output. Days later, Ambassador Spock of the Federation appeared before the Romulan Senate to warn them about the dangers of this star.
Spock believed that if the Hobus star went supernova, it would create a reaction that could threaten much of the Romulan Empire. He asked the Senate to coordinate with Vulcan to find a solution. After a lengthy debate, the Senate rejected Spock's plan.
Ambassador Spock returned to Vulcan, where he met with Ambassador Jean-Luc Picard. The two appealed to the Vulcan Science Academy to assist the Romulans with the crisis in the Hobus system, but the academy declined their request without comment. The two former Starfleet officers decided that they would make their own plans to deal with the situation.
On Stardate 65776.64, the Federation News Network broke a story that reported the Vulcan Science Academy knew of the threat to Romulus but refused to take action to assist the Romulans before the destruction of their homeworld.
The outcry was immediate. The Vulcans' decision was condemned by dozens of politicians and analysts. Seventeen independent planets recalled the ambassadors to Vulcan in protest, as did Federation members Pacifica and Zaran II. Two days later, the Federation Council voted to open an investigation into the Vulcans refusal to help the Romulans, as well as the implications of the academy's work in red matter manipulation.
The Federation president made a public appeal in an address to the Federation Council for member worlds to remain calm and not ostracize Vulcan or anyone involved. "In this time of strife we need to remain united," President Nanietta Bacco said. "Assigning blame does not heal the injured, soothe the stricken or comfort the grieving."
The Vulcans knew about it the whole time, and did nothing, and got condemned for it once it got out. Had the Vulcan's done something about it, it could have all been prevented.
-For the third, funny, because I see far more Klingon and Romulan infleunces in the Alliance then Fed. Hell, the Roms basically RUN the whole thing from New Romulus
-Still doesn't change the fact it is largely the Alliance's fault.
-Except for the fact the in-game borg ships are based on V'ger, something Dsthal even once commented on back when he still worked on the project. they very clearly wanted to make a connection between the two, and we CAN see it in-game.
-Yeah, yeah, that's the Alliance's fault for wanting to stop the Na'kuhl from trying to TRIBBLE the timeline and the destinies of many many races (you can find a list in the Destiny's computer). And before someone says "Yeah, Kal Dano is affiliated to the Federation due to his heritage" and "the Temporal agents are tyrants TRIBBLE over many races", I'll point at the fact that the Na'kuhl and Tuterians we fight MAY (because if we want to go into arguing over details, we can also say it's primarily the fault of the Tholians and Noye) have a reason to blame the Alliance, it still doesn't justify their atrocities when they could have done much simpler and friendlier actions, like helping your ship and Dano's to recover the Tox Uthat before it's too late, or warning Clauda not to make the incursion, you know, these sorts of things. You know, things mostly guaranteed to help restore what they lost, instead of just to make sure everyone else hate their guts due to their murderous actions?
-For the Iconian war and resolution, apart from the whole predestination paradox, there is the fact the Alliance REALLY didn't want to use time travel to not be exterminated by the Iconians, that they were against murderous potential incursions and that when they did decide to use time travel, the Federation was against the genocide, and when the Alliance decided to change the plan and save the Iconians, it was Sela (who was NOT affiliated to the Alliance and was in fact a wanted war criminal) who screwed up and vindicated T'Ket's bloodlust in the eyes of the 11 other survivors.
-The Unimatrixes are based on V'Ger, yes. And? As others have pointed out before, there are various ways to see it, including ones where V'Ger got enhanced by the Borg (since in TMP, Spock does mention a planet of living machines) or the living machines' modifications to V'Ger caused the Borg to be born. How is that even the Federation's fault? Because they sent a basic, non-sentient probe that got lost in a space wedgie, that then got enhanced with an incredibly failsafe-free and dangerous programming to absorb knowledge and seek for its creator without even considering the creator may not be from its "species", the Federation should be held responsible for its rampage?
Comments
Being honorable in no way makes someone less of a villain. Being portrayed sympathetically, also, in no way makes someone less of a villain if that's what the character is meant to be. Both are meant to make the audience feel something for those characters but it doesn't change what they are written to be. They were written as villains.
well sto is certainly keeping THAT dream alive -.-
Like I said, I'd love if I could play a Romulan in something other than a Pro-Federation way. If they could kick both the Federation and the High Command out of the Dyson Sphere's and use that tech to make the Romulan's the undisputed masters of the quadrant, I'd be all for it.
That's never going to happen though because that's not how the main Star Trek canon is written. Any time any group that isn't the Federation rises up and might become a legitimate competitor, they first give the Federation a bloody nose, then they get slapped back down or "diplomatically" written off the table never to be heard from again. How much of a threat is the Dominion after the treaty was signed? What happened to the Maquis after a decently long episode arc? Even threats like the Borg deal some damage and then the Federation just launches a few future torpedoes at a transwarp hub arch and they're effectively stuck in the Delta Quadrant for a while. (and when they come back they'll get outdone again) The Klingon's and Romulan's are no different. They've "fallen into line" just like they would eventually do in the main universe canon as stated several times in the series whenever the "prime" future timeline is mentioned. (Barring the Q future which obviously never came to pass going by the movies)
The writing of the franchise and the spin off material is focused on the Federation. It always will be. There will be side books and side plots based on the other factions but the story is about the Federation. You can hate that all you want but that's the truth of it. I'm just happy I can actually play and be competitive using ships from one of my favorite factions and even occasionally get to Thalaron bombard my enemies like some galaxy hopping radiation king.
To be fair I wouldn't mind at all a recruitment promo deal like the AoY type for Klingon's and Romulan's. Would be great to do and provide those factions with more potential players. However everyone needs to realize that they'll never be the main spotlight because of the franchise itself. Don't stop asking for stuff like ships to fill in holes in terms of what's on offer or cool cosmetic things, but realize that at the end of the day Star Trek is a story about the Federation NOT the other factions.
As a player obsessed about balance, I won't create another character unless it's KDF, so I'm waiting for something like the OP's proposal to create what will be my last character. I don't mind so much flogging 7 characters thru special events, but I need one more KDF to balance my current 4:3 Fed/KDF ratio. This way, both fleets have the same number of 'toons, and they can collectively explore more ships and loadouts (this is where Crypic makes $$).
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
So, you're a Deferi
The player character's faction/origin story does not NEED to be taken into account most of the time.
*replays newest FE* I don't see any lines complaining I'm a warrior not a babysitter, nor joy at the thought of battle.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Did you just call out the "Keeper of the Book of Grudges"? You really WANT @patrickngo to recite the "Litany of Grief"?
I don't always agree with @patrickngo but they do keep very accurate accounts of why they feel as they do. Puts alot of effort into responses then other posters complain of "Wall o' Text" when they explain their position.
In any case, I would welcome a KDF recruiting event, but I would not expect it to happen. If only 14% of players actively play KDF characters, then even doubling that amount would not recoup their expenses. I assume that is why more effort is put into making Starfleet ships "kit-bash capable".
that's the ONE exception. When you're klingon and you talk to anyone ( say during iconian war epsodes ) , regardless if they are KDF or not, the dialogues are identical to the ones you have as fed-character . That's ludicrous ( even from a continuity perspective) . The dialogues you have with KDF ambassador ( or Worf ) should be decidedly different if you're playing those episodes with KDF . It isn't even about the storyline- that can remain exactly the same - but about immersion . And that isn't about Racism ( where you get that notion ? ) . Let's give you an example : say you're an American on holidays in Europe and you meet a fellow american there . The dialogue you have with that person will be different from the one you have with the Italian waiter ... that has nothing to do with racism ,but is simply human nature .
Quite likely. But how much of that difference would be because the other guy's italian and how much because he's the waiter? What would the difference be with an american waiter vs an italian one? To my knowledge, none of the NPCs make small talk. It's all business. How many people start their food order by asking where the waiter is from?
Again, how about giving an example from STO. A specific example would be easier to discuss than "When you're klingon and you talk to anyone." What inappropriate thing does an NPC say during the iconian war episodes?
As for the racism bit, we were discussing Obisek, who is clearly motivated by race. Race-specific dialogue is necessary and in-character there, but not everywhere.
Obviously, there could always be more choices for what the player character could say. There could be a hundred choices for what the player could say in a given situation and someone would still think that their character would say something else. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
My character Tsin'xing
I don't think I agree. If the KDF grew and became increasingly more profitable, I believe they would expand to take advantage of that revenue.
Total pie-in-the-sky thinking here though.
I'm goona regert this but is that supposed to counterpoint or just saying it works for you with the implcation that it should be good enough for everyone.
I'm personally thinking they wouldn't and that kdf playerbase is very much how they want it. I'm also of the opinion their resouce problem is more a resouce mangement problem not amount of resouses. I meam yeah at their current size they probably can't do but so much better but they can do better.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
-You need to check your facts and the STO plot, as well as the foundation of the Kelvin Timeline
-And the "Alliance" is pretty much just the UFP with a different tag. Don't belive it? Read the dialogue and notice how the NPC act.
-One can dance for a lifetime on the "ethics" of predestination paradox and the actions there in.
-Non-canon and no STO based info
also this is all very off topic and we should stop
My character Tsin'xing
don't take taking about honor and glory to be annoyed about a glorified babysitting job and being glad it actually time to do something. which is very in character for pretty all kdf races... as far as they have character anyway.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
-For the Iconian war and resolution, apart from the whole predestination paradox, there is the fact the Alliance REALLY didn't want to use time travel to not be exterminated by the Iconians, that they were against murderous potential incursions and that when they did decide to use time travel, the Federation was against the genocide, and when the Alliance decided to change the plan and save the Iconians, it was Sela (who was NOT affiliated to the Alliance and was in fact a wanted war criminal) who screwed up and vindicated T'Ket's bloodlust in the eyes of the 11 other survivors.
-The Unimatrixes are based on V'Ger, yes. And? As others have pointed out before, there are various ways to see it, including ones where V'Ger got enhanced by the Borg (since in TMP, Spock does mention a planet of living machines) or the living machines' modifications to V'Ger caused the Borg to be born. How is that even the Federation's fault? Because they sent a basic, non-sentient probe that got lost in a space wedgie, that then got enhanced with an incredibly failsafe-free and dangerous programming to absorb knowledge and seek for its creator without even considering the creator may not be from its "species", the Federation should be held responsible for its rampage?
fine, yeah, sure whatever, grow up and stop draggin this off topic already. No, that doesnt mean Im agreeing with you on anything.