Probably wouldn't work well and this coming from a leader who is in charge of very large and active fleets/armada.
Small fleets would die out not being able to keep up. Large but member-dead T5 fleets would eventually succumb.
What you'll get left is people running over to fully completed and active T5 fleets/armadas...as most eventually do already...
Also how would this affect the armada system? Would fleet level/armada level factor into its ability to defend itself?
In any case as a big past PvPer...PvP is all but dead do to huge imbalances in the game.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Yeah...way to bias the answer to the poll...moron. Regardless of what I think, I am with bergins...anyone who makes such a biased poll automatically get the "bad" answer from me as well...not that I would have voted yes to this poll anyways since it's a TERRIBLE idea. MAYBE if we fixed PvP first...but even than, if I was forced into PvP, I would leave my fleet...so yeah no.
'biased poll' oh boohoo, sorry to hurt your little feelings, do you need a tissue sweetheart?
^ this right here is way players hate most PVPers. By being a douche bags you and your ilk created a result in which nobody really cares about PVP. You and your fellow Alpha Sierra Sierra Hotel Oscar Echo Lima's created a situation like that in WOW with gankers and spawn campers in Halo CE doing nothing but creating misery for other lower ability or geared players and then lording over the game saying derp I'm the best derp derp and you wonder why PVP is dead here. You are the bottom feeders of gaming and the biggest cry babies when they get spanked. So go Seirra Uniform Charlie Kilo a big fat Delta India Charlie Kilo.
Would STO benefit from a pvp system which allowed fleets to raid other fleet starbases?
No. Unless it was by unanimous agreement of the Fleet membership. Or you joined a Fleet set up as a warring fleet, with full notification first. Something like that. But not random.
While I'm not intrested in pvp, I could see an intresting avenue for the idea
Remember starbase 123?
How about a setup like that, either as a pve that allows an enemy fleet team to 'test' the defences of the starbase (with the starbase side buffed by consumables such as fleet support, starbase specific defences such as constant extend shields to all allies, ect) with equal rewards for both sides (and bragging rights, possibly a trophy on a wall in the starbase)
How to prevent abuse? Make it an option the enemy group can only access if they are all invited to the starbase
or
Similar but instead its a premade type 5v5 or 10v 10 pvp map, the defenders buffed by the starbase (but with weaker buffs) but here rewards are massively skewed to the victor (including for the defenders a 50% rebate in fleet vouchers for their defences), altered by fleet level/tier (with the same bragging rights trophy wall) - as its a premade only option, it would potentially defeat abuse (or could use the same invite only option)
Also let's be honest the devs have continuously said that they are basically done with PvP updates.
They're no longer looking nor concentrating on that part of the game.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
I'm not sure how this would fit the setting. Fleets fighting each other? Unless it's specifically postulated as a war game withing the universe (which is quite possible, actually)
But I used to play a game called Sword of the New World (aka Granado Espada). Every week on Saturday night they had clan wars, where clans (guilds) would fight over each map in the game (basically controlling certain points until the timer ended) and your guild would get a small bonus for that week for each map you owned.
At first it worked out quite well and was a lot of fun. But then basically one guild dominated 90% of the map, because even their worst players were better than most guilds best players (or rather, had better gear, it was also a pay to win game with a focus on raiding) and it basically became a stalemate where no one bothered anymore.
No, because it would be too difficult to implement (balance and stuff), and they'd have to remove the ability for players to buy top end gear and ships with real money or 99% of the player base will start screaming P2W (because it will be). Plus the gear/damage gap in this game is absolutely enormous, it would practically never be an even remotely fair fight. PvP in this game needs to stay right where it is, buried under the rug.
PvP could be done very easy and you could have large amount of mods, including OP's idea of Starbase defense, etc.
1. Make the rules Guild Wars 2 style - you don't fight with your grinded/paid/crafted/upgraded gear, fitted on your main Space Piniata. You fight with MK 12 white gear and you fly the lvl 40 leveling ships.
2. Make all the current Battlezones into PvP maps, so you don't have to start from scratch. You can also add more modes, but the current battlezones are more than enough for starters.
3. Make a shop, from which players can buy stuff with the tokens they earn during the PvP session:
- Crafting mats
- Unique ship skins
- Dil
- Event tokens
- Lobi crystals
The options are endless and I'm sure the devs have people, who can calculate the exact numbers you can buy, without braking the game's economic or balance.
This way you can have pretty healthy and harmless PvP, in which the players can play with their skills, not with their wallets. And they don't lose anything. It's a win/win situation.
^ Hence my suggestion to make it like SB123, with a pve mode and a pvp mode only triggerable if the enemy players are invited to the starbase ..pvpers can pvp, pvers can have an intresting challenge - and as long as the rewards are not out of a fleets pockets, there are no issues (and of course the reward is determined of sb level so as to not allow low base farming)
That could work, it'd definitely need some kind of safety net to prevent abuse or a mass group of fleets picking on one
In theory the technology to do fleet raid like events is there already as starbase defence changes depending on the starbase thats randomly selected to defend
Inter Fleet Raiding.....an exceptional way to drive even more players who don't want to deal with trolls and idiots further away and kill the game.....and from your post OP, you're one or both!
OP makes a poll without namecalling or insults, so you respond with namecalling and insults. The troll might be you!
OP made a trolling poll that insults decent players, or can't you read?? My post is subjective and neither trolling nor insulting.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Under the strict conditions that both fleets must agree to the combat, and no ships/personnel/resources are permanently removed or destroyed in the process, sure, knock yourself out. But my little one-man fleet will not be participating, nor will I be dignifying the juvenile troll polling options with a vote.
Under the strict conditions that both fleets must agree to the combat, and no ships/personnel/resources are permanently removed or destroyed in the process, sure, knock yourself out. But my little one-man fleet will not be participating, nor will I be dignifying the juvenile troll polling options with a vote.
I don't consider voting for the option written the least appealingly as dignifying anything. I do find it satisfying, though. You should try it.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Probably wouldn't work well and this coming from a leader who is in charge of very large and active fleets/armada.
Small fleets would die out not being able to keep up. Large but member-dead T5 fleets would eventually succumb.
What you'll get left is people running over to fully completed and active T5 fleets/armadas...as most eventually do already...
Also how would this affect the armada system? Would fleet level/armada level factor into its ability to defend itself?
In any case as a big past PvPer...PvP is all but dead do to huge imbalances in the game.
Are you going to look into patrickngo's challenge though? I agree that PvP is a mess and I only use it for training noobs myself (not even the best to do that, but someone has to), but his idea could make a difference in how PvP is perceived.
Anyway, as for this topic, what you say is like what I think. I can tell you that my sluggish Armadas won't do well, and I can agree that the speed at which people stop logging on at all anymore, will only increase. PvP was a reason I lost about half my Senior command to a combination of some becoming bored, and others becoming discouraged. To good, or not good enough. No middle. False positive AFK penalties drove away some of my noobs before they got past level 30, and new blood doesn't come easy.
People I started this game with just don't log on. They like other games (Tera? Really?!)... and they PvP in those games a lot, so STO is not doing what it needs to if it wants to keep them. I'm not sure what they should do, only that PvP isn't working out like it could have.
^ Hence my suggestion to make it like SB123, with a pve mode and a pvp mode only triggerable if the enemy players are invited to the starbase ..pvpers can pvp, pvers can have an intresting challenge - and as long as the rewards are not out of a fleets pockets, there are no issues (and of course the reward is determined of sb level so as to not allow low base farming)
Tier it. Fleets that are interested get to start a project at whatever tier their starbase is at to open it to interfleet pvp. Fleets tht don't want to do it, don't start the project. (this maintains SOME aspect of consent, which is absolutely a necessity in a game like STO, this isn't EVE, PvP ought to require implied, if not express, consent.) Have the Project result on a timer, perhaps-Fleets that lose a lot end up 'out of bounds' until they can marshall the resources to get back in the conflict. (thus, preventing the phenomena of "Started losing, keeps losing because they can't catch a break")
Well I suppose PVP was linked to a Holding (call it a Top Gun School) and PvP allowed you to earn TGS/PvP provisions which you could donate back into the project for some advantages to your Fleet it could be a lot of fun. This is from a guy who really does not like what PvP became, and wants to save it mostly for the sake of variety. I might even start to really like it.
Provisions are earned for participation, and can be based on a combination of Damage done, damage taken, and number of abilities actually activated during the battle, and that should weed out most of the slackers. It has to be vs another Fleet/Armada you have designated, who is eligible (call it a wargame). Bonus provisions for a small fleet challenging/accepting same, a larger Fleet to offset the numbers advantage.
If a Fleet is eligible, it should have the option to change it's status the way that players do when accepting team invites. It should also have the option to set how many active 'war games' it is willing to participate in at one time.
Add some maps. Nothing to fancy is required, but there should be a space to fight in. Maybe attach a 'mission' description'. The initial map provided for eligible Fleets could be the 'Ambush' map. Or the 'Interception' map. Sort of a 'how things start' map is what I'm thinking.
Other maps/missions could be unlocked, along with an associated perk, or fleet provision of some kind. Maybe more contextual stuff to make each map less of the same thing. Recently there was talk about 'civilian' faction concepts going around. and maybe some of that could work here.
I think a good perk/unlock would be a Damage shunt field that made damage over a certain amount just shunt into subspace or something. So you could get hit for 50k, and everything over that went 'someplace else'. With a cooldown, or as something you stack, like batteries or turrets bought with FC. That would benefit everyone. It would be earned. It wouldn't nerf DPS but it would boost defense. It would give noobs a fair chance to shoot back at the hardcore DPS gods, by not dying instantly, and can allow tanking of nak.
Another perk'unlock that sounds cool (to me) would be a damage activated invisibility screen, and resistance buff, that makes you 'not a target' anymore if hit hard enough. There are already some similar powers out there but this would be something where the 'experimental tech' used energy fired at you to power it. it might take you our of combat for the cooldown (making emergency repairs) but you don't count as a PvP kill in such a case, so it has it's purpose.
The main thing about both perk/unlocks that I'm shooting for is the idea of surviving vs very high damage and even the high DPS'rs can use them, though they might be less reliant on them. It also makes a measured attack more useful than a 'BOOM YER DED!" style of PvP. It might require more tactical finesse. More teamwork even.
Yeah...way to bias the answer to the poll...moron. Regardless of what I think, I am with bergins...anyone who makes such a biased poll automatically get the "bad" answer from me as well...not that I would have voted yes to this poll anyways since it's a TERRIBLE idea. MAYBE if we fixed PvP first...but even than, if I was forced into PvP, I would leave my fleet...so yeah no.
'biased poll' oh boohoo, sorry to hurt your little feelings, do you need a tissue sweetheart?
^ this right here is way players hate most PVPers. By being a douche bags you and your ilk created a result in which nobody really cares about PVP. You and your fellow Alpha Sierra Sierra Hotel Oscar Echo Lima's created a situation like that in WOW with gankers and spawn campers in Halo CE doing nothing but creating misery for other lower ability or geared players and then lording over the game saying derp I'm the best derp derp and you wonder why PVP is dead here. You are the bottom feeders of gaming and the biggest cry babies when they get spanked. So go Seirra Uniform Charlie Kilo a big fat Delta India Charlie Kilo.
Whisky Tango Foxtrot! Are we not all diplomats here at least to some degree?
huijian is alright, we have run together in the past.
Still I have to at least agree that there is that dark side to PvP.
I recall in Diablo 2 meeting a PK'r for the first time. I had just gotten to (I think it was) level 10, and some level 40+ I didn't even see because of screen lag was constantly killing me before I could go on with my mission. At first I thought it was a game glitch, till I caught sight of him just before dying one last time. He was camping on my 'corpse'. Seriously, I had never encountered PvP or a PK'r before that day.
Anyway, I got to camp with what I could salvage, and the guy follows me in and waits, like a vulture, no conversing in the chat, nothing! Another player level 80+ caught what happened and began challenging the other guy to 'come on, and be tough, and come out of camp and fight' if he liked it so much. Called him a coward etc. The Pk'r never left camp, despite multiple challenges, and finally logged out of that map.
The other player was a PvP'r, but of the sort who had more manners. I got some great tips that served me well until last summer when I finally hung up my Diablo 2 account for keeps. He even passed of some low level gear, and I mean it was low level, but it was awesome for me. So not nearly all PvP'rs are Alpha Sierra Sierra Hotel Alpha Tango Sierra's, but the ones who are can actually be bad for the community.
So we do need to be conscious of the other players. A competitive spirit is good, but it needs some honor to make it truly great.
But does it really have to stay that way? Some of the really good PvPrs like you could help promote a new direction for some of the best parts of it. I'm sure you would slaughter me, but why not consider patrickngo's idea from the other thread? Ker'rat. I'm going to give it a go as long as my work schedule permits.
What is it going to hurt to put one toon in there?
Comments
Small fleets would die out not being able to keep up. Large but member-dead T5 fleets would eventually succumb.
What you'll get left is people running over to fully completed and active T5 fleets/armadas...as most eventually do already...
Also how would this affect the armada system? Would fleet level/armada level factor into its ability to defend itself?
In any case as a big past PvPer...PvP is all but dead do to huge imbalances in the game.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
^ this right here is way players hate most PVPers. By being a douche bags you and your ilk created a result in which nobody really cares about PVP. You and your fellow Alpha Sierra Sierra Hotel Oscar Echo Lima's created a situation like that in WOW with gankers and spawn campers in Halo CE doing nothing but creating misery for other lower ability or geared players and then lording over the game saying derp I'm the best derp derp and you wonder why PVP is dead here. You are the bottom feeders of gaming and the biggest cry babies when they get spanked. So go Seirra Uniform Charlie Kilo a big fat Delta India Charlie Kilo.
No. Unless it was by unanimous agreement of the Fleet membership. Or you joined a Fleet set up as a warring fleet, with full notification first. Something like that. But not random.
Qapla'!
HOWEVER, I do not think raiding other PLAYER fleets is a good idea. Now VYING for a resource cache is easily doable.
If you want to TRIBBLE with other players in a space-game, EVE online is always looking for more people like that.
Thankfully, STO is not that game.
Remember starbase 123?
How about a setup like that, either as a pve that allows an enemy fleet team to 'test' the defences of the starbase (with the starbase side buffed by consumables such as fleet support, starbase specific defences such as constant extend shields to all allies, ect) with equal rewards for both sides (and bragging rights, possibly a trophy on a wall in the starbase)
How to prevent abuse? Make it an option the enemy group can only access if they are all invited to the starbase
or
Similar but instead its a premade type 5v5 or 10v 10 pvp map, the defenders buffed by the starbase (but with weaker buffs) but here rewards are massively skewed to the victor (including for the defenders a 50% rebate in fleet vouchers for their defences), altered by fleet level/tier (with the same bragging rights trophy wall) - as its a premade only option, it would potentially defeat abuse (or could use the same invite only option)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
They're no longer looking nor concentrating on that part of the game.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
But I used to play a game called Sword of the New World (aka Granado Espada). Every week on Saturday night they had clan wars, where clans (guilds) would fight over each map in the game (basically controlling certain points until the timer ended) and your guild would get a small bonus for that week for each map you owned.
At first it worked out quite well and was a lot of fun. But then basically one guild dominated 90% of the map, because even their worst players were better than most guilds best players (or rather, had better gear, it was also a pay to win game with a focus on raiding) and it basically became a stalemate where no one bothered anymore.
That would probably be how it worked out here.
1. Make the rules Guild Wars 2 style - you don't fight with your grinded/paid/crafted/upgraded gear, fitted on your main Space Piniata. You fight with MK 12 white gear and you fly the lvl 40 leveling ships.
2. Make all the current Battlezones into PvP maps, so you don't have to start from scratch. You can also add more modes, but the current battlezones are more than enough for starters.
3. Make a shop, from which players can buy stuff with the tokens they earn during the PvP session:
- Crafting mats
- Unique ship skins
- Dil
- Event tokens
- Lobi crystals
The options are endless and I'm sure the devs have people, who can calculate the exact numbers you can buy, without braking the game's economic or balance.
This way you can have pretty healthy and harmless PvP, in which the players can play with their skills, not with their wallets. And they don't lose anything. It's a win/win situation.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In theory the technology to do fleet raid like events is there already as starbase defence changes depending on the starbase thats randomly selected to defend
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
OP made a trolling poll that insults decent players, or can't you read?? My post is subjective and neither trolling nor insulting.
I don't consider voting for the option written the least appealingly as dignifying anything. I do find it satisfying, though. You should try it.
Go play something like Eve if "sociopathic trolling" is your preferred style of game play.
I thought that was the DPSers?
Kidding! (mostly)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Are you going to look into patrickngo's challenge though? I agree that PvP is a mess and I only use it for training noobs myself (not even the best to do that, but someone has to), but his idea could make a difference in how PvP is perceived.
Anyway, as for this topic, what you say is like what I think. I can tell you that my sluggish Armadas won't do well, and I can agree that the speed at which people stop logging on at all anymore, will only increase. PvP was a reason I lost about half my Senior command to a combination of some becoming bored, and others becoming discouraged. To good, or not good enough. No middle. False positive AFK penalties drove away some of my noobs before they got past level 30, and new blood doesn't come easy.
People I started this game with just don't log on. They like other games (Tera? Really?!)... and they PvP in those games a lot, so STO is not doing what it needs to if it wants to keep them. I'm not sure what they should do, only that PvP isn't working out like it could have.
Qapla'!
Some excellent advice.
Qapla'!
Well I suppose PVP was linked to a Holding (call it a Top Gun School) and PvP allowed you to earn TGS/PvP provisions which you could donate back into the project for some advantages to your Fleet it could be a lot of fun. This is from a guy who really does not like what PvP became, and wants to save it mostly for the sake of variety. I might even start to really like it.
Provisions are earned for participation, and can be based on a combination of Damage done, damage taken, and number of abilities actually activated during the battle, and that should weed out most of the slackers. It has to be vs another Fleet/Armada you have designated, who is eligible (call it a wargame). Bonus provisions for a small fleet challenging/accepting same, a larger Fleet to offset the numbers advantage.
If a Fleet is eligible, it should have the option to change it's status the way that players do when accepting team invites. It should also have the option to set how many active 'war games' it is willing to participate in at one time.
Add some maps. Nothing to fancy is required, but there should be a space to fight in. Maybe attach a 'mission' description'. The initial map provided for eligible Fleets could be the 'Ambush' map. Or the 'Interception' map. Sort of a 'how things start' map is what I'm thinking.
Other maps/missions could be unlocked, along with an associated perk, or fleet provision of some kind. Maybe more contextual stuff to make each map less of the same thing. Recently there was talk about 'civilian' faction concepts going around. and maybe some of that could work here.
I think a good perk/unlock would be a Damage shunt field that made damage over a certain amount just shunt into subspace or something. So you could get hit for 50k, and everything over that went 'someplace else'. With a cooldown, or as something you stack, like batteries or turrets bought with FC. That would benefit everyone. It would be earned. It wouldn't nerf DPS but it would boost defense. It would give noobs a fair chance to shoot back at the hardcore DPS gods, by not dying instantly, and can allow tanking of nak.
Another perk'unlock that sounds cool (to me) would be a damage activated invisibility screen, and resistance buff, that makes you 'not a target' anymore if hit hard enough. There are already some similar powers out there but this would be something where the 'experimental tech' used energy fired at you to power it. it might take you our of combat for the cooldown (making emergency repairs) but you don't count as a PvP kill in such a case, so it has it's purpose.
The main thing about both perk/unlocks that I'm shooting for is the idea of surviving vs very high damage and even the high DPS'rs can use them, though they might be less reliant on them. It also makes a measured attack more useful than a 'BOOM YER DED!" style of PvP. It might require more tactical finesse. More teamwork even.
Just some thoughts.
Qapla'!
Whisky Tango Foxtrot! Are we not all diplomats here at least to some degree?
huijian is alright, we have run together in the past.
Still I have to at least agree that there is that dark side to PvP.
I recall in Diablo 2 meeting a PK'r for the first time. I had just gotten to (I think it was) level 10, and some level 40+ I didn't even see because of screen lag was constantly killing me before I could go on with my mission. At first I thought it was a game glitch, till I caught sight of him just before dying one last time. He was camping on my 'corpse'. Seriously, I had never encountered PvP or a PK'r before that day.
Anyway, I got to camp with what I could salvage, and the guy follows me in and waits, like a vulture, no conversing in the chat, nothing! Another player level 80+ caught what happened and began challenging the other guy to 'come on, and be tough, and come out of camp and fight' if he liked it so much. Called him a coward etc. The Pk'r never left camp, despite multiple challenges, and finally logged out of that map.
The other player was a PvP'r, but of the sort who had more manners. I got some great tips that served me well until last summer when I finally hung up my Diablo 2 account for keeps. He even passed of some low level gear, and I mean it was low level, but it was awesome for me. So not nearly all PvP'rs are Alpha Sierra Sierra Hotel Alpha Tango Sierra's, but the ones who are can actually be bad for the community.
So we do need to be conscious of the other players. A competitive spirit is good, but it needs some honor to make it truly great.
Qapla'!
But does it really have to stay that way? Some of the really good PvPrs like you could help promote a new direction for some of the best parts of it. I'm sure you would slaughter me, but why not consider patrickngo's idea from the other thread? Ker'rat. I'm going to give it a go as long as my work schedule permits.
What is it going to hurt to put one toon in there?
Qapla'!
Typical PVP smack talk. LOL.
But yeah, your poll was manipulatively biased (or actually too transparent to be real manipulative). Otherwise, just go play EvE Online.