Shield drain

fl219 · November 2016

The developers need to chill with the shield draining. Bad enough I get it from 1 ship. But 2 to 3 ships together? That is "ineficient" even by Borg standards! LOL! But seriously they need to take it down a notch or two. Hazard Emitters and Science Team is already barely useful any more as is. Aswell has any sort of shield drain resistance.

I don't feel they should get rid if it, but 1 ship is more then enough! Or at least have a console to combat it. I am sure Starfleet would have that ability by now. Hell they have a bunch of other unorthidox abilities. (Fiction wise)

peterconnorfirst · November 2016

If my memory of the TV shows and films does not fail me any form of shields were also rather ineffective against the borg there. Since they were able to overcome any sort of fortifications sooner or later the best way to deal with them was to simply blast them out of the sky as quickly as possible. Take Future Starfleet (Janeway) and Species 8472. They dealt with the Borg most efficiently by simply using such powerful weapons that the Borg barley had any time to react.

I think the whole evolution process from the early “Q Who?” episode over "First Contact" up to Voyagers “End Game” has been captured perfectly in STO over the past 6 years. In the beginning they were nearly undefeatable foes with invisible torpedoes and buffed tachyon beams as well. Then we kept on resisting and to get better by embracing all the means that became available over the years. Nowadays the Borg are outmatched laughably easy simply by using superior firepower.

My advice to you is to do it like the great captains in the shows. Draw a line here!!! Forget about fortifying your ship with shields or beeing held back by ideals of fair fights.

Give in to power creep and just smash them!

https://www.sto-league.com/

It’s canon bro.

mustrumridcully0 · November 2016

Wait until the drain is over and then restore your shields. Don't try to counter it while they are still draining it with Tachyon Beam. The Borg Shield Neutralizer is worth countering with Hazard Emitters, of course, though if you're drained anyway with Tachyon Beam, you might want to wait that out. (of course, Hazard Emitters will also help you last through the hull damage you take in that time, so delay only as long as is reasonable.) After the drains are over, you can easily bring back signficant amount of shields just with a Science Team I. (Of course, more helps more.)

thunderfoot · November 2016

Shields are not intended to be anything other than the first line of defense. They are supposed to absorb damage and go down. To prevent all that damage they are taking from impacting on the hull. Covariants are the most resistant to damage but they are also take the longest to come back to strength. Regeneratives take very little time to come back to full power, but they are the weakest in terms of HP. Resilient shields are the 'halfway' point and my preferred version.

Shields going down and staying down because of attacks by more than one ship is an indicator, though. Parking in between a Cube and the four Spheres which accompany it is not the path to long term shield life. Especially when all four Spheres have shield draining abilities and a convenient target close by. The NPCs do have scripts, but they are not the ones from the films or series. The NPCs don't know they are supposed to roll over and die the second you drop out of warp. The Shield Distribution ability, which comes as standard equipment on all STO ships, can bring back the shield(s) facing the Borg quickly. It will not bring them all the way back. However, some shield is better than no shield.

This is not a gear problem. This is a ship use problem. Despite the NPCs being laughably easy in this game, they can and will destroy any player who insists on sticking his head all the way inside the muzzle of the cannon. Some quick suggestions which may help are:

- Stay out from in between the NPCs.
- "Park and Shoot" is not a viable tactic unless your DPS is over 100K.
- Try to stay over 5Km from any target.
- Place the Shield Distribution Ability into your tray and get into the habit of using it regularly.
- BFAW is not your friend. Drawing aggro from two or more Borg NPCs at the same time guarantees one of them will use Tachyon Beam.
- Increase the Turn Rate and Speed of your ship. These will increase your defense.
- Swap out one of the Cheese Consoles in your Engineering Slots for something which increases Damage Resistance.
- And of course:

Improve your DPS by mounting only one type of weapon and adding the appropriate Tactical Consoles. About 12K DPS is good enough for any content in the game. More is better sometimes. Plinking away with two or three different Energy types will maximize Energy Drain for minimal results. There might be something in this game more ineffective than a Rainbow BFAW Boat, but I don't know what it is.

leemwatson · November 2016

Throw a Tac Beam at me will you....I counter with Reverse Shield Polarity!

jaguarskx · November 2016

fl219 wrote: »

The developers need to chill with the shield draining.

No.

That's what makes the Borg challenging.

Change your tactics.

Learn and adapt.

foxman00 · November 2016

jaguarskx wrote: »

fl219 wrote: »

The developers need to chill with the shield draining.

No.

That's what makes the Borg challenging.

Change your tactics.

Learn and adapt.

Ironic considering who the OP is playing against

That species knows for the most part how to "adapt"

leemwatson · November 2016

foxman00 wrote: »

jaguarskx wrote: »

fl219 wrote: »

The developers need to chill with the shield draining.

No.

That's what makes the Borg challenging.

Change your tactics.

Learn and adapt.

Ironic considering who the OP is playing against That species knows for the most part how to "adapt"

Which would be great if they actually did adapt in space.....which they can't!

foxman00 · November 2016

leemwatson wrote: »

foxman00 wrote: »

jaguarskx wrote: »

fl219 wrote: »

The developers need to chill with the shield draining.

No.

That's what makes the Borg challenging.

Change your tactics.

Learn and adapt.

Ironic considering who the OP is playing against That species knows for the most part how to "adapt"

Which would be great if they actually did adapt in space.....which they can't!

Yeah, that would be nice. Borg Adapt to the greatest damage or threat of damage. However, to ensure it couldnt be too OP, maybe make it like a 30 second thing.

If a "meta build" sets off the adaption, they get pretty big reduced damage capacity within that time frame, but someone else can still go full tilt if they have not been adapted to.

Sadly, would be very difficult to program, with little "payback or return" foer the devs. I am also sure we would start getting threads of people going 'oh no, the borg adapted to me, this is etc etc etc, Cryptic are etc etc etc, nerf the borg etc etc etc'

leemwatson · November 2016

foxman00 wrote: »

leemwatson wrote: »

foxman00 wrote: »

jaguarskx wrote: »

fl219 wrote: »

The developers need to chill with the shield draining.

No.

That's what makes the Borg challenging.

Change your tactics.

Learn and adapt.

Ironic considering who the OP is playing against That species knows for the most part how to "adapt"

Which would be great if they actually did adapt in space.....which they can't!

Yeah, that would be nice. Borg Adapt to the greatest damage or threat of damage. However, to ensure it couldnt be too OP, maybe make it like a 30 second thing.

If a "meta build" sets off the adaption, they get pretty big reduced damage capacity within that time frame, but someone else can still go full tilt if they have not been adapted to.

Sadly, would be very difficult to program, with little "payback or return" foer the devs. I am also sure we would start getting threads of people going 'oh no, the borg adapted to me, this is etc etc etc, Cryptic are etc etc etc, nerf the borg etc etc etc'

Not really. They already do on Ground, but the refrequencer is the solution. It's presumed all ships have this ability as in-built, which is why they don't adapt.

orondis · November 2016

Just minimize the amount of threat you generate and don't use AOE abilities.

Without these shield drain skills, even the glass cannons would barely be scratched by an NPC mob.

fl219 · November 2016

Do the borg need to be challenging? Yes the do. But come on....3 Ships shield draining just one ship and ignoreing the "other" threatning ships? That in beyond over kill. I gave up on trying to reduce my threat generation. I swear, I could have every single console slot filled with a negative threat generation console, plus skills plus not useing threat generating weapons fire. Same result. Up to 3 ships shield draining me. Reguardless.
As for draining/reistsance to same. When does it work? Skilled in or not skilled in. Same result.
They need to do some reprograming or something. Even ships not even in the imediate area just waltz right over and start shield draining me. If I didn't know better. I would say that the tachyon beams are saved just for me!

Oh a side note, when that one mission that has you got to Romulas disguised as a Romulan, The game for some unknown reason beamed my captain in with no personal shields. Recipy for disaster right? Not at all. I took less damage without shields then I did with them! That is wierd. Thanks for all the replies!

saurializard · November 2016

fl219 wrote: »

Oh a side note, when that one mission that has you got to Romulas disguised as a Romulan, The game for some unknown reason beamed my captain in with no personal shields. Recipy for disaster right? Not at all. I took less damage without shields then I did with them! That is wierd. Thanks for all the replies!

How did you manage to beam on a destroyed planet? By the way, it's "Romulus" and if it's the mission I'm thinking of, it's actually Galorndon Core.

mustrumridcully0 · November 2016

fl219 wrote: »

Do the borg need to be challenging? Yes the do. But come on....3 Ships shield draining just one ship and ignoreing the "other" threatning ships?

Killing targets one by one is a much smarter strategy then trying to spread your damage around. Most games don't really have any mechanics for spreading your attacks to force the enemy to keep your head down, but even if that was more common, it doesn't really fit Star Trek space combat. (It would fit ground combat.)

warmaker001b · November 2016

LOL, people still complaining about Shield Stripping? Not to mention the NPCs can't even do anything worthwhile to you if they DO strip your shields away!

The Borg! Ha! I don't even care if my shields are down.

fl219 · November 2016

suarializard.... You right. My bad!

iconians · November 2016

"I'm in firing range of this Borg Cube... okay, they fired a tachyon beam and neutralized my shields. I'll just hit Hazard Emitters and Science Team..."

Unknown · November 2016

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fl219 · November 2016

Shields being a first line of defense? Then they need to act like a first line of defense. And not a "no line" of defense. I agree with colonelmarik, the NPC abilites are way over powered to player abilities. They even get to use the same abilities seconds apart! While we as players have to suffer through a cooldown. As for tractor beams, they seem to be a primary weapon now days. Even though they are NOT a weapon.

e30ernest · November 2016

Personally, I think the Borg drains are ok. My cruisers are built to hull-tank anyway, my Sci ships generally have high enough shields that they can't drain it completely unless I mess up and my Escorts are fast enough to take me out of trouble if I need to. IMO if the shield drains are a problem for you, then it points to a general build or piloting issue. There are ways to get around them.

NPC abilities are no more powerful than player abilities. It's just that they have much higher hull and shield HP than players do so there is an illusion that your own abilities are less potent than theirs.

Unknown · November 2016

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peterconnorfirst · November 2016

colonelmarik wrote: »

I once posted about alien races using varied tactics. In that post, I described different races using different abilities, too. For instance, the Borg were KNOWN for draining shields and using tractor beams. NO OTHER RACE used tractors as a weapon... or in combat at all. There was ONE exception when Defiant briefly tractored a Klingon ship to disrupt its fire control (NOT to damage or immobilize it). Thus, I would say no other race (with the possible exception of the Tholians) should be routinely tractoring anyone. "Sciencey" abilities should be restricted to races that we know USE those kinds of things. For example, we know Romulans like to use stealth and misdirection, so they should be using things like Jam Sensors or Mask Energy Signature (though, in the case of the Romulans, they should be using the CLOAK, something they NEVER use in STO).

However they arrange it, the NPCs abilities should NOT be so much more powerful than ours. A little buff is fine. Five to ten times the effect is stupid. Allowing them to ignore limitations on the abilities (such as how Jam Sensors is broken by damage, or the various cooldowns on skills) is ALSO idiotic. BALANCE is key in ANY game.

Nice post!

I think the strength of a single sphere’s tachyon beam is not really the issue however the strength of half a dozen beams hitting you from a flock of spheres is for most players.

I doubt half a dozen beams were ever meant to be countered or resisted. They are meant to influence your play style.

Make use of +/- thereat consoles from embassy.

Play more or less aggressively.

Attack before or after your teammates.

Stack anchored or engage evasive maneuvers.

The options to deal with them are infinite and to make use of the different ones keep the fight exciting.

I did countless ISA the past 5 years. This weekend I made my first one in a fragile sci ship with 5 + threat consoles preferably in bad pugs. Was glad to see that advanced content can still be challenging for me.

catsmeat · November 2016

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Wait until the drain is over and then restore your shields. Don't try to counter it while they are still draining it with Tachyon Beam. The Borg Shield Neutralizer is worth countering with Hazard Emitters, of course, though if you're drained anyway with Tachyon Beam, you might want to wait that out. (of course, Hazard Emitters will also help you last through the hull damage you take in that time, so delay only as long as is reasonable.) After the drains are over, you can easily bring back signficant amount of shields just with a Science Team I. (Of course, more helps more.)

Exactly right.

pop hazard emitters to clear debuff
apply shield heals

easy easy easy

fl219 · November 2016

Thats the thing, Hazard Emitters is completely useless with the shield drains. Most it does now is a wash and a wax. So it isn't easy easy easy. Even with high AUX. It does counter sheild neutralizers though. For what good it does when you get hit by one 2 seconds later.

Unknown · November 2016

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goodscotch · November 2016

The Borg are difficult when you wade into the group. Multiple probes, spheres or cubes can be devastating to any ship. When you attack a group, attack smart...try to keep your ship in a position where only one or two Borg vessels can attack you at a time. If you wade into a group and start hammering away, as one poster said, with BFAW, you'll simply attract the attention of all of them and will soon be reduced to critical. One tactic that works well is...get to within firing distance of one of the vessels, open up on it and start to back off as you continue to fire. The other Borg ships in the group will pursue, but by the time one of them gets in range to start in on you, the one you started with should be destroyed. This way, you're only ever facing one or two ships at a time. And...stating the obvious here, but...DPS helps. The quicker you can destroy their ships, the better off you'll be in the end. Beam Overload and Cannon Rapid Fire are the preferred attack modes...eliminating them one at a time and subsequently removing their ability to "gang up" on you.

odinforever20000 · November 2016

coolbatman wrote: »

ahhh, for that you reduce hazard emitters cooldown to 5 secs....ok 10 secs at most, that way you can take the shield neutralizers all day and all it'll do is tickle a bit, i'm still looking for a counter for the "disruptor hull breach" and still haven't found 1 yet.........

"disruptor hull breach" is the disruptor proc.

mustrumridcully0 · November 2016

fl219 wrote: »

Thats the thing, Hazard Emitters is completely useless with the shield drains. Most it does now is a wash and a wax. So it isn't easy easy easy. Even with high AUX. It does counter sheild neutralizers though. For what good it does when you get hit by one 2 seconds later.

Well, the person quoting me did simplyfy what I said and managed to throw part of the advice I mentioned out accidentally.

The Tachyon Beams can only be resisted, not countered, and if you are encountering a group, it's too much drain -resistance is not sufficient.

But - it's not like it's impossible to survive without shields for a while.

The point is optimizing your mitigation and recovery strategy.

If you take too much hull damage, you will have to pop a Hazard Emitters (or any other hull heal, but HE is a hull heal you should always have IMO). Ideally you do that so that you also negate the shield neutralizer (a weapon only the cubes have, that also drains your shields, but unlike Tachyon Beam can be countered.)

Once all the drain is over, you can activate a shield heal. Science Team I can already be sufficient to give you enough shields to last for a while ifs supported by an a Tactical Team to auto-distribute your shield power and perhaps some Emergency Power to Shields to gain some hefty shield hardness.

A potential additional mitigation strategy could be to escape the Tachyon Beam firing arc, but I suppose most cruiser captains have little chance of doing that, and the beam probably is activated a distance where even faster ships have problems clearing the arc quickly enough to make a difference.

The one thing absolutely not do is enter the fight without the ability to restore your shields. It doesn't matter if they get drained or otherwise depleted at some point - that is just the cost of doing business, basically. You shouldn't try to rely just on hull or shield tanking, however. You should have a healthy mix of abilities and now how to use them most efficiently.

Just because the Borg happen to be the one energy that can reliably bring your shields down doesn't mean they are unfair enemies. It's just something to account for when fighting them.

quebraregra · November 2016

colonelmarik wrote: »

The problem isn't the drains themselves, it's the overpowering of NPC abilities. Drains will completely wipe out shields instantly. Gravity Wells are unavoidable, unescapable death sentences. Heck, even TRACTOR BEAMS are vastly destructive death rays capable of destroying a ship in 3 seconds (even though they don't do ANY damage on the shows).

When WE use the same skills and abilities, they're incredibly weak by comparison. THAT is the real problem. I have no problem with the enemy getting a bit of a buff to compensate for the weak AI, but what they got is frequently ridiculous.

There are some hella big nasty grave wells thrown out there, sometimes by multiple NPCs in a short period. Evasive maneuvers (there's a skill that buff it to break all holds), is the only reliable getaway if it's not on CD.

odinforever20000 · November 2016

colonelmarik wrote: »

The problem isn't the drains themselves, it's the overpowering of NPC abilities. Drains will completely wipe out shields instantly. Gravity Wells are unavoidable, unescapable death sentences. Heck, even TRACTOR BEAMS are vastly destructive death rays capable of destroying a ship in 3 seconds (even though they don't do ANY damage on the shows).

When WE use the same skills and abilities, they're incredibly weak by comparison. THAT is the real problem. I have no problem with the enemy getting a bit of a buff to compensate for the weak AI, but what they got is frequently ridiculous.

So..There are about 3 or 4 different ways to get out of Grav wells (Trajector warp core (or similar ability), ApO, Evasive Manuvers(with Pilot), Aux2D)..
Tractor beams (Borg used in ST:First Contact, were deadly)... nullified by Pol Hul or use ApO or A2D to escape the pull..Or ..you know..Stay outside 5km from enemy ships....

Why are our skills and abilities incredibly weak by comparison? Typically happens when we are not specialized in them.
If I want ridiculous Drain abilities Ill go all in for Drain on a science ship.. Super evil hull kills with Tractorbeams/Repulsors:All in with EPG...Mega Gravity Wells;Control...

I think if you were to run a parser, youd prolly find your beams and what not are stronger than the NPC's..They just got more numbers (and HP).

Unknown · November 2016

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Shield drain

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