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Why are beams the meta?

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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    There's also some cascade effects from BFAW because it doesn't work right in regards to accuracy overflow, which in turn warps which [mods] you want while using a BFAW build.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    We could fix ISA and go via the same route as some other STF's and time gate the objectives

    1. Kill the initial guards you have 2 mins. But killing them doesn't end the timer you have to wait for it to run down as the transformers are shielded
    2. Kill the left transformer before Nanites get there to heal it you have 3 mins to obtain objective. Killing it however doesn't end the timer as you have to wait for it to run out before the being able to shoot the other side as its shielded for that 3 min period.
    3. Kill right transformer within 3 mins. Unable to shoot gate unless transformer is killed within 3 min objective timer or transformer is killed after 3 mins due to failed objective.
    4. Kill gate and final cube.

    Lol good way to kill a queue. Hope no Dev's are reading and take this as a serious suggestion as it is NOT
    If that setup were to be implemented i would saturate the area of the transformer with enough tricobolt mines that the explosion could be seen/felt in the next STF. Gotta make the most of a time gate after all.
    As Catbert would say, I like the cut of your evil. :D

    For this purpose it's important to remember that mine detonation damage is actually fixed when you launch thus hitting APA+APO before dumping with drastically increase explosion damage even if the buffs on your ship expire before the miens explode. Also in some situations(not ISA) you can use mines to set off a chain breach where exploding ships destroy each other.
    nikephorus wrote: »
    There was a time when Turret builds were viable too, especially in Sci ships. Is there any point in trying something like that nowadays?
    I have a turret build. Disruptor.

    Hit 35k with it in my Nandi before the skill tree revamp. Should parse around 40-45k now with ease.
    And yeah they work. And they're a lot of fun. Ever have the urge to unload a chain gun ? Try a turret build.
    You might be able to get even more then that. I made a turret only build for kicks on my Herald Vonph and got clocked at 75k-ish I think it was. Using only turrets is completely viable.
    Like duh, Vonphs turn the same way Chuck Norris does pushups. Thus it's easier to force the enemy to be in front of you than turning to face them. :p
    Kinda a new player, but I prefer beam weapons to cannons for a different reason... 250 degree firing arc vs 45-90 degree firing arc This allows me to shoot at the enemy from more angles then a cannon does. As an example, my federation ship is almost constantly able to fire both beam weapons at the enemy, and only has to go head on to fire a torpedo. My Klingon ship on the other hand is usually only firing one 360 degree firing arc cannon in the aft, until I manage to go directly towards the enemy, at which point the rest of my cannons can now shoot. This means that against faster ships, my KDF ship is less effective then the federation ship.
    This is why you use single cannons instead of DHC.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    Lock Trajectory = cannons on target, all the time. Makes for a good ID4 swirling dogfight too.

    And while you're at it you have enough slots left to break every single hold the game can throw at you.


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  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,941 Arc User
    i only equipp the assimilated set on cruisers anymore. I just cannot let go of a torp fore and aft, especially when that aft torp is the wide angle Quantum from the Regent. with a ship with three aft slots I go AP build and a torp with the two omnis aft. with 2 slots torp and then I can go to phaser/disruptor since there is only one omni.
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  • telbasta7386telbasta7386 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    I have noticed that in large fights (like that particular mission where you need to destroy Sela's command ship while you've got a couple dozen elachi and romulan ships battling against you that keep spawning), having beam fire at will on all the time makes it difficult to keep damage on a single opponent. That'd definitely be easier with scatter volley.

    Right now I'm flying a defiant and it just doesnt make any sense to use beams. I also bought the sao paulo class for the quad cannons, so it feels like a waste if I dont use the cannons on my ship. I dont know what would be best on pilot escorts but maybe it'd be best to just stay to a cannon build.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,941 Arc User
    yeah but with a cannon build you have to.. you know.. FLY the thing
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    I have noticed that in large fights (like that particular mission where you need to destroy Sela's command ship while you've got a couple dozen elachi and romulan ships battling against you that keep spawning), having beam fire at will on all the time makes it difficult to keep damage on a single opponent. That'd definitely be easier with scatter volley.

    Right now I'm flying a defiant and it just doesnt make any sense to use beams. I also bought the sao paulo class for the quad cannons, so it feels like a waste if I dont use the cannons on my ship. I dont know what would be best on pilot escorts but maybe it'd be best to just stay to a cannon build.

    Well, there is nothing wrong with cannons if you like them.
    Also like I said earlier, a good pilot (who knows how to activate buffs in the proper order, or has sound keybinds/macros) can make a cannon build extremely deadly, and can outperform a beam build all things being equal.
    This can be seen even more clearly at the high end of the DPS scale.

    Think of it like this, a beam build will make the average player better (in most cases). But it will hold back a very good pilot at the high end of the DPS scale.
    Meanwhile a cannon build can make a mediocre player worse DPS wise, as it is harder to use effectively. But a very good pilot can soak out even more DPS with cannons then a beam build could ever hope to provide.
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  • telbasta7386telbasta7386 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    There's no good pilots on console considering how bad the control options are
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  • telbasta7386telbasta7386 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    A long time ago my ferasan kdf captain did a setup like that with the neghvar battle cruiser: 4 cannons forward and 4 turrets aft. Only have to keep a 180 forward facing on the targets which was easy enough, and the scatter volley was awesome.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    We could fix ISA and go via the same route as some other STF's and time gate the objectives

    1. Kill the initial guards you have 2 mins. But killing them doesn't end the timer you have to wait for it to run down as the transformers are shielded
    2. Kill the left transformer before Nanites get there to heal it you have 3 mins to obtain objective. Killing it however doesn't end the timer as you have to wait for it to run out before the being able to shoot the other side as its shielded for that 3 min period.
    3. Kill right transformer within 3 mins. Unable to shoot gate unless transformer is killed within 3 min objective timer or transformer is killed after 3 mins due to failed objective.
    4. Kill gate and final cube.

    Lol good way to kill a queue. Hope no Dev's are reading and take this as a serious suggestion as it is NOT

    Just bring back the Borg STF Elites and put them on par with the Nah'kul. Then watch all the DPSer's cry as they're DPS becomes less important.

    Which is why they removed them. They require you to do more than press the space bar. But long gone are the days of good STFs. I remember the day of people screaming "they're to hard." Yet, both my Fed Tac and Fed Sci, which I played at the time, was geared with all the Mk XII gear and could tank Aramek in The Cure Applied(Hardest Borg Ground STF).

    Right now the only difficult ones would really be the Shuttle ones. Not as hard as they use to be. But, enough to present a challenge. This is because you're limited in the amount of consoles and weapons you can use. Start taking those away from players and they avoid the STFs. Not that once you've hit T5 rep and have everything you want from the it, the same thing happens.

    To revive the STF front, they're going to need to ramp up the difficulty of them all, return the old borg Elites, and remove the various ways one can get dilithium. Return to, you want dil, you run STFs. But this would be returning to the pre-rep era of 2013 and before.
    yeah but with a cannon build you have to.. you know.. FLY the thing

    This is true. With cannons you do have to do more than park and press the spacebar.

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  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    I'm a heretic then. I run beams, but use Beam Overload as my primary attack. It's possible to set your ship up to decrease BOFF cooldown as much as possible and throw in a few Space DOFFs that increase shield penetration for Beam Overload, 30% chance. I'm popping Beam Overload like a madman. I run beams and I hate to use BFAW.
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    trennan wrote: »
    We could fix ISA and go via the same route as some other STF's and time gate the objectives

    1. Kill the initial guards you have 2 mins. But killing them doesn't end the timer you have to wait for it to run down as the transformers are shielded
    2. Kill the left transformer before Nanites get there to heal it you have 3 mins to obtain objective. Killing it however doesn't end the timer as you have to wait for it to run out before the being able to shoot the other side as its shielded for that 3 min period.
    3. Kill right transformer within 3 mins. Unable to shoot gate unless transformer is killed within 3 min objective timer or transformer is killed after 3 mins due to failed objective.
    4. Kill gate and final cube.

    Lol good way to kill a queue. Hope no Dev's are reading and take this as a serious suggestion as it is NOT

    Just bring back the Borg STF Elites and put them on par with the Nah'kul. Then watch all the DPSer's cry as they're DPS becomes less important.

    Which is why they removed them. They require you to do more than press the space bar. But long gone are the days of good STFs. I remember the day of people screaming "they're to hard." Yet, both my Fed Tac and Fed Sci, which I played at the time, was geared with all the Mk XII gear and could tank Aramek in The Cure Applied(Hardest Borg Ground STF).

    Right now the only difficult ones would really be the Shuttle ones. Not as hard as they use to be. But, enough to present a challenge. This is because you're limited in the amount of consoles and weapons you can use. Start taking those away from players and they avoid the STFs. Not that once you've hit T5 rep and have everything you want from the it, the same thing happens.

    To revive the STF front, they're going to need to ramp up the difficulty of them all, return the old borg Elites, and remove the various ways one can get dilithium. Return to, you want dil, you run STFs. But this would be returning to the pre-rep era of 2013 and before.
    yeah but with a cannon build you have to.. you know.. FLY the thing

    This is true. With cannons you do have to do more than park and press the spacebar.

    You do know if you sit and park, +bfaw... that is not good strategy unless you have the "Anchored" trait ? Right ?
    Sorry, not trying to argue with you, but it drives me crazy when someone implies this is all you have to do with a beam FAW build.

    1. When parked you have negative defense.
    2. When parked your sub systems levels are penalized.
    3. Binding all your attacks/buffs to space bar is one of the stupidest things anyone could do with their keybinds/macros.


    I realize you probably only say that in jest. But I hate when people get the idea that is all a beams build has to do, park and hit space bar.
    I use a speed/beam build on one of my toons, so not only does 1-3 come into play, I also get penalized when sitting still (Imp.Pedal 2 the Metal / Subwarp sheath +[Pen] scales to your speed).
    The last thing I do with that toons is park and fire off bfaw.
    I suppose I could get away with it, if I wanted to gimp myself, and play like a complete zombie idiot. :dizzy:

    Sorry to single you out for it, because a lot of people will say that, but that mindset really triggers me lol.

    Also, I don't keybind/macro anything, so try flying at full speed, keeping your eyes on targets and the battle, while also trying to click off about 5-6 abilities from the tray, over and over. Its actually not that easy to do effectively.
    Glance at the tray too long, you're out of range or the shield facing that is down eludes you. Focus too much on the battle, you miss up-time on your ability uses.

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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I personally think they would be better off to add more things to both the stf, and the reps associated with them in the form of special rewards. Like with the reps you might have a high tier project that you need to slot into it not only the normal dil/elite-marks/normal-marks like we do with the other project, but also might have special marks/items that you gain either thru a mission you get from the rep or via doing the different stfs associated with that rep. I could see this being even things like a starship project that gets you a starship linked to that rep. Than you could also going back to how stfs were a bit in the past, in which you had different rewards that you got form the different stfs.

    I could also see daily mission/events that you have specific sets of stfs to finish, and when completed you could get different rewards, if they were done in a way that were appealing, than that could drive people to try out more of the different stfs.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,474 Arc User
    I've never had any problem keeping the enemy in my arc of fire in an Escort - probably because I fly her fighter-style, where I head at the target at medium speed, firing all the way, then peel off and accelerate at the last moment, letting my rear weapons have their way with the target as I regenerate forward shields. Lather, rinse, repeat, and soon space is filled with the plasma-venting remains of my foes...

    (Then again, I never PvP, either. Could that be the difference? The relative stupidity of the AI as opposed to a sapient enemy?)​​
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  • wdj40wdj40 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    kjfett wrote: »
    R&D isn't yet available on console, and I wasn't aware that they even added omni beams. Last time i played on pc the only 360 beams were the ancient and cutting

    Ah you're on console, forget I said R&D Omni lol.

    Maybe put a regular AP beam in the cutting beams place. Its not that great.

    Cutting beam in the rear is way better than a beam array of the same level and gets WAY better when you add in an Assimilated Module as you get:

    Set 2: Omega Weapon Amplifier
    On hit with any energy weapon, 2.5% chance: to self: Applies Omega Weapon Amplifier:
    +10 Current Weapon Power
    +500 Current Weapon Power Resistance Rating for 3 sec
    +500 Maximum Weapon Power Resistance Rating for 3 sec

    to all your beams and that 2.5% chance is decent when you have a lot of beams and fire off FAW a lot.

    Yeah, but if you have high PTR already you can go without the 2 piece Cut beam/Assim Console.

    On another note, the Cutting beam has absolute garbage fire rate. Which is why I like another Omni, regular or Rep AP beam in its place.

    But I'm spoiled maybe, used to 400% PTR, with Leetch and Supremacy. So I've not used the assim 2 piece in quite a while.



    Since there's a lot of console players in the forums right now, I do think we need to be a bit clear cut about the 2pc Assimilated bonus Omega Weapon Amplifier.

    It is indeed something a build can grow out of. But until a build/ship/player reaches a specific point, it's still pound for pound an amazing bonus to equip and run with. Beyond that, even after replacing the KCB, the Assimilated Module itself still remains a great console choice until you can replace it with something usually that costs Lobi or is ship specific.

    :smile:

    One of the best parts about the new player infusion from console is a lot of things that were old (like how standard the Assimilated 2pc used to be in alllll build, hahaha), is new again!

    That and some of us Console players don't have a clue what some of you are talking about ha ha :)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    assimilated 2 piece usually means the Borg engine and deflector. The shield is a regen shield and has a relatively low cap so a lot of players don't like it and replace it with a higher cap shield.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    I prefer cannons myself, though I throw in a DBB to go with the cannons, on my T6 Fleet Negh'var. Comes with innate Attack Pattern Tokyo Drift, but has a really really good turn rate. Sure, I'll be drifting into the next sector, but the front end will unleash on the enemy for a long time while doing it.
  • telbasta7386telbasta7386 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    Lol... attack pattern Tokyo drift
  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    I remember when the game was escorts online. I remember reading once on the PVP forums, how one player liked to run with beams on his escort because it was cannon and poster after poster responded on why that was such a TERRIBLE idea DPS wise.

    Yeah, things have gone in the complete opposite way now, BUT cannons are still quite viable. Beams back in the day weren't considered so at all.

    Play style back then was too limiting I think.

    Now you can even play as a sci and do some pretty good DPS.

    You can play anything you want and still contribute.

    Tweaking still needs to be done for sure, I wouldn't argue against that, but we have made some strides in encouraging a diversity in play styles. My opinion anyways.
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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I kinda wish that the anchored trait would give you a turn-rate buff while stationary, with the boost to turn-rate being based on the size of the vessel. I would not mind this as with the fact of all you lose for using Anchored the boost is abit lacking, but a turn rate buff could be nice to have.

    Also it honestly would be nice to have filler content that might take us back to the older reps, seeing what has happened an going on with them. Might find out that there is something happening in borg space, the spheres, or even on Kobali prime as the war an activies of the factions these groups dealt with did not jut disappear. Seeing some content that shows what has happened in the interim period, maybe showing an revealing new things going on or mysteries that have been discovered would make for a nice little filler update that reuses some content assets that are already in game. If they did this to say - reps each year as a mid season filler update, than you would have a nice little draw of content, and with the fact that a lot of the needed things are already in game it would take less effort than building something from scratch.
      Rep expansion ideas
    1. Omega/anti-borg rep: I could see this being a mini-expansion/update in which the borg had gotten their hands on some of the vessels of the many powerful races we have been fighting, from the Vaadwaur to even the Iconian vessels. I actually could see this one might be central to the event, with like us needing to battle our way thru improved borg ships that were upgrade from the other race's tech/ships they assimilated, and make it to the area the borg are attempting to assimilate fully a Herald/Iconian ship. We might even see assimilated Heralds an other such races in group missions we go thru.
    2. Dyson sphere: This one I could see it being about areas of the spheres, and systems of the spheres becoming active/open after the end of the Iconian war. Than after this event the Voth slowly began to once again seek out these areas, while the alliance did as well, but maybe the Solanae an other Servitor races of the Iconians might have be abandoned (or the just sought to grow more like them) an came to the spheres seeking to reclaim them.
    3. New romulan: This one I love the most the idea of exploring more of New Romulus, seeing the city maybe expanding an changing, but also learning more about the race that once had lived their prior to the Romulans would be so interesting. Maybe finding out a splinter group of them survived the accident with the gate, and now are returning to retake the sector an the planet now that it is inhabitable.

    I still say it would be nice to see the dev's make an adjustment to the firing arc different between dual cannons, and dual heavy -cannons to give them a more distinct area they are used in, and I would make it a increase of going from 45 degree to 75 or 90 degrees for dual cannons (dual heavies staying as 45 degrees.). Such a change would make Dual heavy cannons being more something you put onto a very nimble ship, and dual cannons being more used when you do not want waste console spots (or you don't have enough for what ever reason) to improve the turn-rate but instead using those same console slots to improve other things. Right now both the dual cannons an also single cannons are just inferior choices, compared to using dual heavy cannons. Both beam arrays an banks are useful in a different style of play, and I think this should be like with cannons (at least dual cannons and dual heavy cannons).
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    Just trying to understand why everyone is saying beams are better than cannons right now. Need to pick a setup for my ship.

    Used to be that cannons were always better, but I've been out of the game for a long time.

    I found my little slice of both pies in the KT phasers, they are pretty good you might wanna try them out
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    There are guys that can hit for great damage, performance in various builds: Cannons, Space Magic, Beam, Torpedoes.

    Beams are the easiest and IMO, most survivable. Not talking about the setup it takes to make any of these perform. I'm talking about their use.

    1. Flying broadside with 6-8 beam arrays spamming BFAW lets you hit a huge amount of targets in a very generous arc, i.e. 360 degrees around you. Cannons that rely on DC/DHC have to point their nose towards the target. Even Science / Space Magic Builds requires pointing the nose of the ship towards the target for the majority of offensive Sci abilities. Torpedo Boats are in the same restrictions. Not a BA+BFAW boat. You're hitting everything. What if the threat is reduced to a sole target? CSV < CRF. TS < HYT. The BFAW build does not skip a beat and actually embarrasses BO on a single target. A BO gets that guaranteed Crit, but a BFAW has the chance for each of their attacks to crit and crit and crit and crit and crit and crit... Why do you think Crit Hit is such a big deal? Esp. if the BFAW build is being done by a Romulan with SRO BOFF traits across the board on top of Spire TAC Consoles that increase Crit Hit?

    2. Ease of use. Fly around with your sides to the target and hit BFAW, works better of course if you have a proper sequence of abilities that support it. BFAW doesn't magically delete ships all around you by itself, but with a right sequence of abilities, is devastating.

    3. One of the most survivable builds. Mobility is life. The faster you are, the more Bonus Defense, the more things will miss you. If you're stationary or are going extremely slow, you're easier to hit. The more things miss you, that's damage you don't have to deal with to mitigate or heal. By nature, a BFAW+BA build is typically always on the move unless the threat is so pathetic that it can just "turret" but typically, I keep my Beamboat moving. That means less attacks hitting me, especially if you draw aggro.

    In contrast are various builds, like some narrow arc builds. DHC/DC cannon builds. Sci heavy builds are examples. If you want to keep using their attack abilities, you need to keep nose on target. Attack runs of speeding in, shooting, then flying past, turning around, then attacking again are wasteful. Those parts where you're not facing and attacking the target(s) is time you are not attacking and doing damage. But it increases your survivability by being on the move. However, if you want to maximize damage, you may find yourself acting like a Standoff Siegeboat or a Turret... You're nose to target and stationary, eating a lot more hits than you need to.

    Caveat: There's also the DBB+BFAW build which acts more like a narrow arc build like DC/DHC/Torp Boat. But the firing arc of a DBB is way more generous than torpedoes and DC/DHC weaponry.
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  • fluffymooffluffymoof Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Beam Fire at Will is why. An overpowered ability that can be buffed, buffed and buffed some more, can be used almost constantly (i.e no significant cooldown) due to certain abilities, is more powerful against single targets than any other ability and has no real downside.

    ^^^^^^

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  • telbasta7386telbasta7386 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Lol... attack pattern Tokyo drift

    Don't make me hurt you....

    No i just like the term, I used to fly a neghvar and that definitely describes what happens with that ship.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Who cares about the 'meta'? Just pick a weapon you like.

    For me, that would be anything that requires real piloting skills * : dual heavy cannons. And I also started using a dual beam bank a couple of weeks ago, because they look so nice on the ships I'm flying.


    * and by 'piloting' I don't mean what FAW-spammers usually mean with it, I'm talking about true piloting as in the need to steer your ship or you won't fire anything except a turret or two maybe.
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