Huh. I figured they would delete the barely-functioning mess that is the Defera Invasion Zone before they deleted Battle Group Omega. Why delete a functioning social zone? Going after Starbase 39 Sierra next?
Probably. Serves no purpose, after all you have a comm badge or ESD. According to many users here more than one social zone is superflous
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Come on... It was about as useful and visited as the Captains Table.
I can agree with the statements about how it wasn't used, and wasn't useful.
But, I still like the zone. I have a lot of early game memories tied into it. I still remember the first time taking the transwarp conduit to get there. It felt like a special moment in-game for me. I used to use it to get to my favorite sector of the exploration maps a lot (the B'Tran).
So logically I can see the merit in such a statement as you're making. Emotionally I still don't like it.
I'll use Everquest and Kithicor Forest as an example. I had some key early EQ memories tied into Kithicor. It went from a newbie/starting zone in day time to an undead high level massively dangerous zone at night. So there was some real corpse runs tied into Kithicor. To transverse the map at night was a challenge for lowbie players. A lot of wall hugging and running flat out to escape aggro if you didn't account for the pathing.
Last time I went back to EQ for some nostalgia, yeah, even at night Kithicor was too low a level to matter. But the memories are still strong. The nostalgia is still there. Some MMOs understand this (or just keep building forward and forget about old zones). It's a thing you know? EQ's 17 years old. There's some serious memories tied into it.
Cryptic makes me sad when they make a decision like this and essentially remove a part of the game that I still have strong memories for. This was far far FAR more devastating to me when they removed exploration, as I was one of the tiny few players that played the hell out of the exploration zones. Every. Single. Day. This decision I understand. I just don't like. And it reminds me so much of the removal of exploration that it probably hits me a bit harder because of that.
In short, yeah, the argument/statements being made that it wasn't being used make perfect sense.
I still don't like it.
Ah well.
At least they'll preserve the Borg Science Officer sidequest, as a lot of people like that quirk and do that optional.
Maybe there's a revamp of the Borg going on. They've been at least mostly removed from the tutorial, their STFs are cut down to a handful and now BGO is gone. Maybe Roxy and the Victory are packing the whole kit and kaboodle over to the Delta Quadrant to join Hugh and Seven where the Borg actually live.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Huh. I figured they would delete the barely-functioning mess that is the Defera Invasion Zone before they deleted Battle Group Omega. Why delete a functioning social zone? Going after Starbase 39 Sierra next?
Probably. Serves no purpose, after all you have a comm badge or ESD. According to many users here more than one social zone is superflous
I'm still having a little trouble figuring the comparison between omega and Defera Invasion Zone. In one, there's nothing to do you can't do elsewhere. The other is still highly active with a good number of missions, etc. One, you never see anyone there. The other, you can't avoid people there. as said, looking for the appropriate comparison.
I'll miss BGO. It makes sense story wise as you level up, encounter the Borg, and move through the former Borg reputations now a consolidated reputation. As others have mentioned, the availability of services is great; and I love the music.
Defera Invasion Zone is used often by large numbers of players. Battle Group Omega is not.
The old exploration clusters was also used often by "large number of players". Defera rarely gets up over two instances at a time. I doubt there are more people on Defera then there were using the old exploration clusters.
One could draw several parallels between the Invasion Zone and exploration clusters.
They can't really pull Defera since they built too much of the game around it.
I think you are confused. I mentioned the Defera Borg Invasion Zone, not the planet itself. I doubt removing the battle zone would impact STO significantly, though there would be players upset by it. Much like the aforementioned exploration clusters.
Gameplay-wise, its function is tremendously important. This is one of the 4 cross-faction social zones accessible by F2P players, and the only space social zone in the game. BGO is the perfect place to bank/exchange for players who do not have the best of computers or the best of internet connections, because the map is relatively empty when compared to ground social zones. Which means it is much easier to load up than, say, K-7/Ganalda.
It's "tremendously important" for the few players who even remember it exists, much less bother to fly out in the middle of nowhere Beta Quadrant with no transwarp just for some services they could much more easily access on the homeworlds, a fleet holding or a freighter bridge.
Possibly... but if you're in the NE part of BQ it takes a while or assistance from another player to get to a social zone... It's the ONLY social zone that side of New Romulus.
The captains table needs redone, it should be as much a social zone as drozana for example, with every single amenity. Visited there just once to check it out, boring ghost town.
99 times out of 100 that idea would push my "oh hell no" button (I tend to feel the Borg are overdone, and don't translate well to an MMO). But eh, a revamp right now would be interesting. So yeah, I'd like to hear more of this idea.
I blame the backlash against Delta Rising for much of this. That was a long war, it had a lot going on and it didn't let you just rush through it by playing a half dozen story missions and bam done. They made you spend time between major events putting in time on the lines, both on the ground and in space, and while that angered the people who wanted to get it over with it also made it last and be memorable. Wars aren't over in a few days. Whatever DR's flaws were, making players slow down and spend time in the slog wasn't one of them. That was a feature, but impatient players painted it as a bug.
What? The patrol missions in the Delta arc are the very definition of tedium. They are everything that is boring and wrong with qued content. Or are you referring to the level requirements prior to enjoying narrated story content? You think someone should have to play ISA then thousand times to get the required level to enjoy the story? Maybe the Admirality system is your kind of fun interactions?
I don't know what you are getting at here. There should be no level requirement to enjoy the game's story. The story episodes should not contain grueling, boring, bog-standard MMO grinds in place of actual narrated story content.
TL;DR Zooming to the end and having nothing to do is stupid. Game needs more sandbox elements to slow players down and keep them busy. Don't remove hubs, use them to anchor zones filled with things to do.
You like empty sandboxes. I like linear story progression. Methinks we like different games. Your taste is not better than mine (and vice versa).
I paid for access to the Captains table, not for BGO. I support this removal, the walls keep closing on these F2Pers.
Testy a touch. A lost zone is a loss to all, not just to FTP users. And many of those players pay good real money to keep the lights on at Cryptic. So let's not alienate the hands that give our alien overlords their milk and cookies.
I dont remember when I was there the last time,
but it must have been year(s) ago when I did the one ground instance for the borg boff, which I still use today.
I completely got lost and someone needed to show me where to get it.
havent visited a (borg) ground instance since then.
even more I did not know this zone still exists
.o0( The gods of deutsch data recovery have prevailed! The techno will continue.)
What? The patrol missions in the Delta arc are the very definition of tedium. They are everything that is boring and wrong with qued content. Or are you referring to the level requirements prior to enjoying narrated story content? You think someone should have to play ISA then thousand times to get the required level to enjoy the story? Maybe the Admirality system is your kind of fun interactions?
I don't know what you are getting at here. There should be no level requirement to enjoy the game's story. The story episodes should not contain grueling, boring, bog-standard MMO grinds in place of actual narrated story content.
Amen to this, I hope they cut all Delta Quadrant content from the game (except the Vaadwaur). I guess Delta Rising was a success in a way in that it managed to make STO as mind-numbingly tedious and unpleasant as watching Voyager was.
Cutting Omega is probably the right decision in the long run. It was a half-baked attempt at something that was eventually done much better. Keeping it around means they'll have to spend a certain amount of resources maintaining it and keeping it up to date with the rest of the game which is going to be a drag on the dev team. It is better to just throw things out and move on sometimes, even if they might have sentimental value to some people.
@ezicstar#2795 How does keeping BGO around cost resources? They haven't touched the map in five years at all.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
@ezicstar#2795 How does keeping BGO around cost resources? They haven't touched the map in five years at all.
Not that you can see, but they have to fix bugs in it that people report, any medium-large-scale changes like the graphics overhaul are going to include work to get it up to date, etc. Plus they have to consider the overall experience, if BGO is going to be beneficial to new players and worth the time.
Let me guess.... players were getting lost in BGO?
Well yeah, sure. It's a map where you can fly so far from the ships with bank etc. access that you just can't find them. That's just a trap for players to die in cold space kilometers from the task force.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Was it because they couldn't turn it around to face the right way? We'll never know.
In any case, I'd like to voice my disappointment that yet another classic element of STO bites the dust. What was wrong with BGO? It's tied into the story and was one of the few social zones with access to everything - and the only space social zone.
At this point Cryptic is known to rather rip out stuff instead of fixing it. I'm worried that we'll see a complete removal of Defera next or the sector space for that matter. After all, we could access all missions vis a nice sterile menu and transwarp there. The sector space just occupies too much memory and besides, new players might get lost...
Meh no big loss was so insignificent to the storyline that removing it is no big deal. They could have done a lot with it but I feel Delta Quadrent took it's place. I wish they would expand the Delta quadrent in the next season. After running DR episodes theres little to keep you there.
Comments
Probably. Serves no purpose, after all you have a comm badge or ESD. According to many users here more than one social zone is superflous
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I can agree with the statements about how it wasn't used, and wasn't useful.
But, I still like the zone. I have a lot of early game memories tied into it. I still remember the first time taking the transwarp conduit to get there. It felt like a special moment in-game for me. I used to use it to get to my favorite sector of the exploration maps a lot (the B'Tran).
So logically I can see the merit in such a statement as you're making. Emotionally I still don't like it.
I'll use Everquest and Kithicor Forest as an example. I had some key early EQ memories tied into Kithicor. It went from a newbie/starting zone in day time to an undead high level massively dangerous zone at night. So there was some real corpse runs tied into Kithicor. To transverse the map at night was a challenge for lowbie players. A lot of wall hugging and running flat out to escape aggro if you didn't account for the pathing.
Last time I went back to EQ for some nostalgia, yeah, even at night Kithicor was too low a level to matter. But the memories are still strong. The nostalgia is still there. Some MMOs understand this (or just keep building forward and forget about old zones). It's a thing you know? EQ's 17 years old. There's some serious memories tied into it.
Cryptic makes me sad when they make a decision like this and essentially remove a part of the game that I still have strong memories for. This was far far FAR more devastating to me when they removed exploration, as I was one of the tiny few players that played the hell out of the exploration zones. Every. Single. Day. This decision I understand. I just don't like. And it reminds me so much of the removal of exploration that it probably hits me a bit harder because of that.
In short, yeah, the argument/statements being made that it wasn't being used make perfect sense.
I still don't like it.
Ah well.
At least they'll preserve the Borg Science Officer sidequest, as a lot of people like that quirk and do that optional.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'm still having a little trouble figuring the comparison between omega and Defera Invasion Zone. In one, there's nothing to do you can't do elsewhere. The other is still highly active with a good number of missions, etc. One, you never see anyone there. The other, you can't avoid people there. as said, looking for the appropriate comparison.
and failing to see it.
Too bad.
One could draw several parallels between the Invasion Zone and exploration clusters.
I think you are confused. I mentioned the Defera Borg Invasion Zone, not the planet itself. I doubt removing the battle zone would impact STO significantly, though there would be players upset by it. Much like the aforementioned exploration clusters.
Just occurred to me which one you actually ment.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/comment/13051282
My character Tsin'xing
99 times out of 100 that idea would push my "oh hell no" button (I tend to feel the Borg are overdone, and don't translate well to an MMO). But eh, a revamp right now would be interesting. So yeah, I'd like to hear more of this idea.
I don't know what you are getting at here. There should be no level requirement to enjoy the game's story. The story episodes should not contain grueling, boring, bog-standard MMO grinds in place of actual narrated story content. You like empty sandboxes. I like linear story progression. Methinks we like different games. Your taste is not better than mine (and vice versa).
Testy a touch. A lost zone is a loss to all, not just to FTP users. And many of those players pay good real money to keep the lights on at Cryptic. So let's not alienate the hands that give our alien overlords their milk and cookies.
but it must have been year(s) ago when I did the one ground instance for the borg boff, which I still use today.
I completely got lost and someone needed to show me where to get it.
havent visited a (borg) ground instance since then.
even more I did not know this zone still exists
It's not the first time.
Every update they add, modify or remove items or aspects of the game. Usually right before a major mod.
Wonder what it'll be...
you see it on the map. big green thing.
Agreed. That track is one of my favorites in the game.
Amen to this, I hope they cut all Delta Quadrant content from the game (except the Vaadwaur). I guess Delta Rising was a success in a way in that it managed to make STO as mind-numbingly tedious and unpleasant as watching Voyager was.
Cutting Omega is probably the right decision in the long run. It was a half-baked attempt at something that was eventually done much better. Keeping it around means they'll have to spend a certain amount of resources maintaining it and keeping it up to date with the rest of the game which is going to be a drag on the dev team. It is better to just throw things out and move on sometimes, even if they might have sentimental value to some people.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Not that you can see, but they have to fix bugs in it that people report, any medium-large-scale changes like the graphics overhaul are going to include work to get it up to date, etc. Plus they have to consider the overall experience, if BGO is going to be beneficial to new players and worth the time.
Well yeah, sure. It's a map where you can fly so far from the ships with bank etc. access that you just can't find them. That's just a trap for players to die in cold space kilometers from the task force.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Meh no big loss was so insignificent to the storyline that removing it is no big deal. They could have done a lot with it but I feel Delta Quadrent took it's place. I wish they would expand the Delta quadrent in the next season. After running DR episodes theres little to keep you there.