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The bear is out of its hole
fovrel
Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
You can say that with the release of the T6 Connie. I never understand what was the big deal, but who am I to judge things here. So I thought lets go make another step. No more faction restrictions on ships. Yeah, here it is, the next forum meltdown can start.
KDF and Romulans don't have a T6 science ship. Cryptic says, those factions aren't played by the mayority of the players so their ships do not sell well. I can understand it. But what if the feds could fly those ships? Then they could be as popular as the fed ships. It makes also sense. Ships should come to another faction as contraband, warprizes or as the result of alliances. Romulans can already fly their alled ships at certain level.
It is canon. Kirk flew a Bird of Prey in The Search for Spock and The Voyage Home. There were more movies as I remember.
We already have the 31th Century ships for all factions. They look to me as flattened Orion ships, so in a way it works for me. Please, give us some faction specific skins for these ships.
Talking about it, what happened to the Korath?, the KDF sister of the Wells? The Wells has some brothers and sisters now, but the Korath and here Romualan sister are still an orphan.
Anyway, I would like to see the following two things. Low tier ships at top tier, a T6 Miranda, anybody? And no faction restrictions on ships, be it completely unrestricted or limited, I have no problem with that.
KDF will cry, not our Bird of Prey for the Feds. Do you really think, every federation captain is going to fly it? If if they do. more ships for the KDF, and the feds. I would say. It is a win-win.
KDF and Romulans don't have a T6 science ship. Cryptic says, those factions aren't played by the mayority of the players so their ships do not sell well. I can understand it. But what if the feds could fly those ships? Then they could be as popular as the fed ships. It makes also sense. Ships should come to another faction as contraband, warprizes or as the result of alliances. Romulans can already fly their alled ships at certain level.
It is canon. Kirk flew a Bird of Prey in The Search for Spock and The Voyage Home. There were more movies as I remember.
We already have the 31th Century ships for all factions. They look to me as flattened Orion ships, so in a way it works for me. Please, give us some faction specific skins for these ships.
Talking about it, what happened to the Korath?, the KDF sister of the Wells? The Wells has some brothers and sisters now, but the Korath and here Romualan sister are still an orphan.
Anyway, I would like to see the following two things. Low tier ships at top tier, a T6 Miranda, anybody? And no faction restrictions on ships, be it completely unrestricted or limited, I have no problem with that.
KDF will cry, not our Bird of Prey for the Feds. Do you really think, every federation captain is going to fly it? If if they do. more ships for the KDF, and the feds. I would say. It is a win-win.
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WAR against the federation!
(yet again)
Your suggestion is by far one of the most idiotic I have ever seen.
If you want a T6 Orion or Gorn vessel, this is the wrong way to go about it. With your suggestion, there will NEVER be a T6 Romulan Science vessel (because Romulans can just use Federation ones). This may be a win for the Federation (cheap Plasmonic Leeches), but it would be a loss for everyone else.
And I've never once seen a rational reason why not. Only useless fanboy drivel about how horrible it would be if their pristine KDF toon had an option to buy a Fed ship and how it's better that KDF ships not be created at all than get sold to the Feds.
Interestingly, it's always the KDF fans that preach restrictions. I wonder why that is. Especially considering the KDF loses the most because of the restrictions.
I see every KDF player with Fed characters too. The same goes for Romulan. If you want to explore all of the content of the game, you have to have a Fed aligned character. Used to be, you couldn't play a Klink without first having leveled a Fed character to 20.
So, what I'm saying is, the game stats are skewed by the development of the game to focus on Fed. There are more Fed players because the game was designed around them, not because there is some inherent bias against the other factions in the playerbase.
This is very much like offering sandwiches to a lunch crowd, then claiming at the end of the day that, "Nobody wants soup, all of our customers want sandwiches." In other words, the bias you see is a reflection of the direction of development of the game, and nothing more.
Certainly there are some players who will never choose Klingon or Romulan characters. These players are in the minority. Most players want to play all the factions.
On the contrary, there will "never" (read: unlikely) be a T6 Romulan science vessel as it is. Because Romulan Science vessels "don't sell" (read: sell less than Fed/cross-faction ones). Because the majority of players are not allowed to buy them. And because Romulans can just use cross-faction ones.
Statistical evidence disagrees with that assumption.
Delta Rising was a multi-faction focused expansion/season. Cryptic created 6 Federation Z-store ships, 2 KDF Z-store ships and 1 Romulan Z-store ships.
AoY was a Federation-focused expansion/season. Cryptic created 8 Federation Z-store ships and 3 "multi-faction" Z-store ships. When the Kelvin lockbox was introduced, it had 1 ship for each faction. The lobi store had 1 Federation ship and no ships for the other factions.
So, if Cryptic ONLY has to support ONE faction, we have seen how it will be handled. For KDF 2 Z-store ships is not great, but it is better than all your ships being lockbox/promo pack rewards.
And there is no "if." Cryptic only HAS TO support whatever the asterisk they want. The myth that Cryptic must make KDF/Romulan ships is just that. They can stiff us a lobi ship, they can make 12 Fed ships and throw us a bone by making 3 of them available cross-faction, they can go years without giving us T6 science ships and carriers. They can do anything, it's their game.
They naturally want to create things for the market that makes them the most money. With the restrictions, that means Feds. Without restrictions, it would be everyone. And that's why KDF and Romulans should by all reason want to be included in a single market, instead of being marginalized in their own "unprofitable" corners.
And people think IM crazy lol
People's failure in reading comprehension is impressive though. The poll here speaks about OPPOSING faction - which faction would be most interesting as ANTAGONIST to the primary faction. Apparently, for the most people for the primary faction the Federation would the most popular choice of all.
If anything the inability of Klingon and Romulan states to take the first places among the answers to this particular question is the indicator of the LACK of their popularity, not the other way round. Even as potential antagonists they lose to the Borg and Starfleet, respectively.
I only have one KDF character, and one Romulan. Hence why I'm not really motivated to buy special ships for them. Resulting in less ships for the Admiralty systems, no filled spec trees and therefore less well developed characters.
If I could use Federation ships on these characters and fly a Romulan Tactical Command Battlecruiser on my Feds for example, I would be much more motivated to buy certain ships.
Most rational players will want to spend their resources, be it time or money, such that it maximises return.
If I'm willing to spend 2500 or 3000 Zen on a new T6 ship, then I won't be spending it on a KDF ship that only one toon will be able to use. I might want to do that if said KDF ship could be used on my 8 or so FED characters. I've never bought a cross-faction ship package like the Andromeda package, and I doubt I will ever do that.
Keeping something unique for each faction won't be viable anyway. And this goes both ways. Remember when Reciprocity was released? Klingon players were complaining that they didn't have access to it and, likely for this reason, the cross-faction packages were released.
All factions will want some degree of equal treatment: access to the same gear, traits and an option to buy ships without needing to buy them for all three separate factions if you want a trait. So let's just remove those barriers and allow players to use everything across all their characters on an account.
It might actually help the KDF ship sales, I know I would be more inclined to buy a KDF ship if I wouldn't be spending 25000-3000 Zen on a ship (+possibly a trait) that will only be accessible on one of my characters.
What statistical evidence? We can only see the results of what has happened, and given that there was far less than equal treatment of the factions, one faction received a larger amount of development, and players who wanted to maximize their benefits for time and money spent played on that faction. The other two, being secondary factions at best, received secondary attention from the player base. This is a case of confirmation bias, in which one expects a certain result, then rigs the test to produce those results.
Also: every Rom and Klink player is also a Fed player. If 50% of players wanted to play the other factions, but still want to play as Fed, where all the attention of the developer goes, then you have 75% of the playerbase registering as Fed, with only 25% registering as other than Fed, and the results skew even farther given years of neglect and lack of options for other factions, forcing players who would otherwise wish to invest more in another faction to play as Fed just to get the gear and perks only available to Feds.
You can't look at what exists now and say there is not enough interest in other factions. The lack of interest was manufactured by the development team, and is the result of conscious decisions they made to marginalize the other factions. You can argue whether it was the right choice or not, but statistics in this case lie.
Fact is most players are not all that attached to a faction. Certainly not before starting the game. They will pick Fed in the beginning because it's the most familiar from canon and lets you play as a human, then stick with that because they've invested time and/or money developing the character. And if they ever want start another character, they will notice they can make another Fed and keep the ships and other things they've bought, as opposed to another faction would require buying new ones. That's why the Feds are and always will be the majority.
And every KDF/Romulan player is most definitely NOT also a Fed player or vice versa. Most players have real lives and don't have the time to play multiple toons full-time. Alts are by and large for seeing the faction-specific part of the storyline, then maybe doffing/admiralty, refining some dil. Or for these recruitment events, unlocking the account rewards. Not something you buy ships for.
It's not going to happen though.
It's about inspiration.
People are inspired by the characters of Star Trek, both the "human"(oids) and starships.
They are inspired by Kirk, Spock, Uhura, Data, Riker, Picard, Sisko, Kira, Jadzi, Ezri, Worf, Martok and the 7 Enterprise(s), Voyager, Rhode Islands, Equionox, Bird of Prey and what you have.
My first character was a Vulcan Science Officer because I liked Spock - but I intentionally styled him differently (lighter hair, beard) to make him my "own" Vulcan. I created a bit of backstory inspired by Star Trek novels.
That is how, to some extent, everyone will get into this game, I think. And there is just so much more inspiration material for a Starfleet character aboard a Starfleet ship then there is for Klingon, Romulan, Borg, Cardassian, Dominion, Breen or Undine that the players will naturally gravitate in large parts to Star Trek.
Star Trek is not like Star Wars - Star Wars has a much more even number of inspirational characters (protagonist and antagonists alike) in the movies, and there are basically only 5 characters in the original trilogy that have the hallmark inspirational abilities of a Force Sensitive. (And you see that force sensitive characters in TOR are more popular then the "normal ones".)
It's not like Warcraft either, a franchise that was created as a faction vs faction game where both sides got equal representation from the start.
^^^^ This. A thousand times this. How does someone arrive at such a bizarre confirmation bias-driven conspiracy theory? Do you need a tinfoil hat and a big gulp of Jim Jones Guyana Kool-Aid or what?
Klingons and Romulans aren't popular because they aren't popular, no matter how much you may love them and wish others felt as you do. They will always get fewer ships, and all new high-level content will always be faction agnostic. Get over it or play another game, those are your options.
The T6 "Fleet Exploration Cruiser" would like a word with you about that claim.
P2P games can't "fairly" be called "being sent to the graveyard" anymore. The companies that are F2P now but were P2P are merely following the trend that has been developed over time by the F2P business model in order to stay competitive. The reason some games fail even with the F2P model is due to bad foresight by the games' parent company and failure to provide enough items people are willing to pay for or selling things at prices beyond what people think they are worth.
As much as I hate doing this, I do agree with @oliviaclaire on the issue of the beginnings of the KDF in STO. Had the KDF been fully fleshed out, I think things would be better for the KDF today and had not the things that made it a desireable faction not been put in lockboxes for the Feds to acquire.
But this is just my own speculation, however.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Is there anyone with a klink character who has not purchased the vandal first chance they got to gain access to the leech?
Thus if the KDF ships (for balance sake say T1-4) would become available all around (and fed T1-4 ships for the kdf) then i would gain access to unlimited plasmonic leeches instead of one.
The plasmonic leeches are still not cheap on the exchange. Last time i checked they were more than 20 Million EC.
If there are no restrictions, there will BE only Starfleet. Only the United Federation of Planets. They would NEVER make another Romulan or Klingon Coalition ship for the Z-store. You can only speculate that SOME Starfleet players would buy T6 Klingon ships and actually fly them. The majority of Starfleet players would not go anywhere near a Klingon ship, and they would NEVER be profitable in the Z-store.
Even then, the lockbox and promo ships tend to be "season themed". To get more Romulan/Gorn/Orion/Klingon ships, there would have to be a related "season" or event going on.
Right now, the Romulans and KDF get new ships with the 3 packs, which is probably the best solution going forward. The Lockbox item for the KDF in the Leech box is the Ionized Gas Sensor. It changes your next torpedo attack to home-in on cloaked vessels. It comes standard on the Tier 2 Exeter Cruiser Refit.
It was a huge "WTF" console, since the Klingon Coalition had the lion's share of cloaked ships. I guess it would be useful for the non-existant PvP against the 4 Federation players who would buy a Klingon ship and actually pilot it. The majority of Federation players who would just strip the Klingon ship for parts and delete it.
My character Tsin'xing
This is the result of design decisions by the development team, not an inherent bias in faction choice. If more robust factions had been made available from the start, and if such factions continued to receive equal treatment in the development cycles, there would have been less of an observed bias and players would have had a real choice in the faction in which they invested their time and money.
As it stands now it's what is called a Magician's Force, in which you have only one real choice, but are given the illusion of multiple choices. The Klingon and Romulan factions are not equally fleshed out and developed, either with one another, or with the Federation, for which over 2/3 of all development effort has been directed. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that going Klink is handicapping your game. And statistics based on the situation in which we now find ourselves are flawed for the same reason.
Example: You are very thirsty, and I offer you a 'free sample' sized cup of lemonade, a teaspoon of Dr. Pepper, or a half-liter bottle of spring water. Is it fair for me to then conclude that you prefer bottled spring water over lemonade or Dr. Pepper? It is a certainty that only lemonade or Dr. Pepper fanatics would choose any other option in this situation.
In the same way it is ludicrous to suggest that the majority of players would choose Fed faction if all three factions had equal development and opportunity. Perhaps it is true, but we'll never know because flawed statistical analysis will always yield better results for the Fed. In fact, had this game been developed with 2/3 of all resources designed for the use of Klinks only, we'd be having the exact same conversation about how nobody wants to play Fed.
If you build only rowboats you cannot then make the claim that people prefer rowing to sailing because of the excellent sales of rowboats and rowboat gear. All you have proven is that, given no other viable options, people choose what is available.
Fact is, KDF and Romulans DO get a decent amount of stuff. Did KDF suck worse that a ruptured bulkhead before season 6? yes. Does that influence new players in a meaningful way? nope. KDF does have less options for T6 ships. But would a new player actually see that as a reason to play Fed? Not likely. First they'd have to actually research it enough to realize that.
Fact is new players will now see four boxes to choose from.... but it'd take a lot of time for them to figure out how much stuff is inside each box. But... apparently most of them choose Fed even without knowing that Feds have more stuff.
My character Tsin'xing