Circular Logic - New ships for KDF and Romulans are less available because less people play them/buy the ships, less people play them/buy the ships because the ships aren't there to buy (and the ones that are are deemed "less" desirable. Statistics can be skewed to show what you WANT them to show, should you so desire.
Personally, I'd like to see an end to Factions - they never really "applied" much in STO and do so even less, these days it seems like the biggest part Factions play is a divide/argument inducer on the Forums and not much else.
If the multifaction temporal ships are any indication... I have a feeling that may be the route going forward, with the factions coming together for a Galactic Union.
If the multifaction temporal ships are any indication... I have a feeling that may be the route going forward, with the factions coming together for a Galactic Union.
So no more Starfleet, Klingon, or Romulan ships, but just Cross-faction ships, Lockbox ships, Event Ships, Insanely Expensive Promo ships, and Micro-faction ships? A bit too early to confirm for sure due to the Kelvin Universe ships, the recent Promo, and the Flagships that came out in February.
@brian334 I don't believe that. The devs added a huge amount of content to KDF in LoR and people barely reacted at all. And no, multiple irrelevant examples does not help your case.
Fact is, KDF and Romulans DO get a decent amount of stuff. Did KDF suck worse that a ruptured bulkhead before season 6? yes. Does that influence new players in a meaningful way? nope. KDF does have less options for T6 ships. But would a new player actually see that as a reason to play Fed? Not likely. First they'd have to actually research it enough to realize that.
Fact is new players will now see four boxes to choose from.... but it'd take a lot of time for them to figure out how much stuff is inside each box. But... apparently most of them choose Fed even without knowing that Feds have more stuff.
Yep, it feels like it's old-timers who cling to the idea that years 1-2 of STO are still having a huge effect on faction ratios, when STO (like all MMOs) has a steady turnover of players. And those new players mostly pick Fed - Tactical (or now TOSfed - Tactical).
KDF and Rom get fewer ships, but if you look at the T6 choices with fresh eyes both have a good selection. The major lack is T6 faction science ships and carriers, but most new players choose tactical and tac / eng ships. So most new players who pick either faction won't ever feel the pain of SCIENCE! fans like me.
After reading this thread imho there is no reason to give the Federation side everything the game has to offer. If a Federation person wants to fly a Rom or Klink faction ship then let them roll a Rom or a Klink. Sorry I don't see any need for it except some Feds want everything.
It was a huge "WTF" console, since the Klingon Coalition had the lion's share of cloaked ships. I guess it would be useful for the non-existant PvP against the 4 Federation players who would buy a Klingon ship and actually pilot it. The majority of Federation players who would just strip the Klingon ship for parts and delete it.
That's almost the ideal case.
As long as thoese Feddies still buy these ships, all is good. Because that means Cryptic sells the ships, and that is the primary reason for them to make a ship. And if they don't end up playing them - that's great, because it means a tiny bit of immersion is preserved, as there aren't (m)any Starfleet Officers commanding KDF ships.
But overall it would mean Cryptic has reason to sell more KDF ships, because the sales are there.
After reading this thread imho there is no reason to give the Federation side everything the game has to offer. If a Federation person wants to fly a Rom or Klink faction ship then let them roll a Rom or a Klink. Sorry I don't see any need for it except some Feds want everything.
Right, let's keep doing what Cryptic has been done for 6 years now, it has clearly worked wonders for KDF ship sales and KDF ship creations.
Oh wait, it hasn't.
Either most purchasing customers don't want KDF ships at all (possible), or they don't want to create non-FED alts for them. In the first case, you're totally screwed. In the second case - removing faction ships might do the trick.
Considering that lockbox ships traditionally have consisted of non-Federation designs, and they seem to be an important part of Cryptic's business model, I subscribe to the idea that the problem isn't that people don't wan to fly non-FED looking ships. So KDF ships would be an option. But they want to play them on their Fed toons.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
They naturally want to create things for the market that makes them the most money. With the restrictions, that means Feds. Without restrictions, it would be everyone. And that's why KDF and Romulans should by all reason want to be included in a single market, instead of being marginalized in their own "unprofitable" corners.
If there are no restrictions, there will BE only Starfleet. Only the United Federation of Planets. They would NEVER make another Romulan or Klingon Coalition ship for the Z-store. You can only speculate that SOME Starfleet players would buy T6 Klingon ships and actually fly them. The majority of Starfleet players would not go anywhere near a Klingon ship, and they would NEVER be profitable in the Z-store.
I've already debunked that stupid conspiracy theory in this very thread. All parts of it.
Just because you wouldn't go anywhere near a non-native faction ship doesn't mean others wouldn't. And the continued popularity of the countless lockbox/lobi/event ships prove it.
Are you seriously suggesting that Klingon ships would be less popular than Breen ships, or Voth ships, or Na'kuhl, Iconian, Ferengi, Xindi, Dominion, Krenim, etc, etc, etc?
Non-Starfleet ships are made all the time. They are popular and profitable. The only ships that are NOT profitable are the ones that are artificially restricted to a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
After reading this thread imho there is no reason to give the Federation side everything the game has to offer. If a Federation person wants to fly a Rom or Klink faction ship then let them roll a Rom or a Klink. Sorry I don't see any need for it except some Feds want everything.
There is no "Federation side," only the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. Hasn't been for years.
@brian334 I don't believe that. The devs added a huge amount of content to KDF in LoR and people barely reacted at all. And no, multiple irrelevant examples does not help your case.
Fact is, KDF and Romulans DO get a decent amount of stuff. Did KDF suck worse that a ruptured bulkhead before season 6? yes. Does that influence new players in a meaningful way? nope. KDF does have less options for T6 ships. But would a new player actually see that as a reason to play Fed? Not likely. First they'd have to actually research it enough to realize that.
Fact is new players will now see four boxes to choose from.... but it'd take a lot of time for them to figure out how much stuff is inside each box. But... apparently most of them choose Fed even without knowing that Feds have more stuff.
Yep, it feels like it's old-timers who cling to the idea that years 1-2 of STO are still having a huge effect on faction ratios, when STO (like all MMOs) has a steady turnover of players. And those new players mostly pick Fed - Tactical (or now TOSfed - Tactical).
KDF and Rom get fewer ships, but if you look at the T6 choices with fresh eyes both have a good selection. The major lack is T6 faction science ships and carriers, but most new players choose tactical and tac / eng ships. So most new players who pick either faction won't ever feel the pain of SCIENCE! fans like me.
At least we have the T6 Galactic Union science ship now. It's a great deal since it has fleet level stats and can be used by both Rom and KDF... Not really KDF or Rom though, but I'll take what I can get.
Just because you wouldn't go anywhere near a non-native faction ship doesn't mean others wouldn't. And the continued popularity of the countless lockbox/lobi/event ships prove it.
You have alot smashed into one sentence here. First off, people will get the free ship because it's free. Doesn't mean the ship is desirable or popular. Second, lockbox/lobi ships tend to have better stats/traits/consoles than Z-store ships. This goes for promo ships as well. To state people want the ships because of looks alone is completely inaccurate. The mechanical benefits of lockbox/promo ships also come into play, especially if the lockbox ship is mechanically superior to the ships currently available to your faction.
Are you seriously suggesting that Klingon ships would be less popular than Breen ships, or Voth ships, or Na'kuhl, Iconian, Ferengi, Xindi, Dominion, Krenim, etc, etc, etc?
According to Geko, yes. It makes sense to me. The only effort you need to do is create a Klingon character. Since that seems to be waaay to much effort, you could easily assume that any future T6 or T7 Klingon Coalition vessels would sell poorly if put in the Z-store.
Non-Starfleet ships are made all the time. They are popular and profitable. The only ships that are NOT profitable are the ones that are artificially restricted to a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
... and the ships that are poorly designed. [Insert Varanus/Bor'tasque gripes here]
There is no "Federation side," only the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. Hasn't been for years.
Once again, your assertion seems to fly in the face of what is actually presented in game. Starfleet very much has an identity all it's own. It has it's own art-style, history, mission and social zones. In most story content, you often refer to Starfleet, and occasionally refer to the Prime Directive (even if your faction isn't Starfleet or has a Prime Directive). The multi-faction ships are from some far point in the future, not STO's current date.
Do you think Cryptic would dissolve the most recognized, most popular FACTION in the Star Trek universe? The faction that has the most ships, the most assets, the most Z-store offerings? Never. Not in the lifetime of the game. At best, Cryptic would dissolve the Klingons and Romulans. This would allow Starfleet players to buy existing Klingon or Romluan ships, any new ships of those former factions would be in lockboxes or promo packs. If it was thematically appropriate, of course.
Non-Starfleet ships are made all the time. They are popular and profitable. The only ships that are NOT profitable are the ones that are artificially restricted to a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
... and the ships that are poorly designed. [Insert Varanus/Bor'tasque gripes here]
Right.. because obsolete junk totally defines the choices of new players....
Just because you wouldn't go anywhere near a non-native faction ship doesn't mean others wouldn't. And the continued popularity of the countless lockbox/lobi/event ships prove it.
You have alot smashed into one sentence here. First off, people will get the free ship because it's free. Doesn't mean the ship is desirable or popular. Second, lockbox/lobi ships tend to have better stats/traits/consoles than Z-store ships. This goes for promo ships as well. To state people want the ships because of looks alone is completely inaccurate. The mechanical benefits of lockbox/promo ships also come into play, especially if the lockbox ship is mechanically superior to the ships currently available to your faction.
The ships are made. People want the ships. People would want Klingon ships, too, if they were allowed to buy them.
Are you seriously suggesting that Klingon ships would be less popular than Breen ships, or Voth ships, or Na'kuhl, Iconian, Ferengi, Xindi, Dominion, Krenim, etc, etc, etc?
According to Geko, yes. It makes sense to me. The only effort you need to do is create a Klingon character. Since that seems to be waaay to much effort, you could easily assume that any future T6 or T7 Klingon Coalition vessels would sell poorly if put in the Z-store.
As long as they're restricted to <15% of the playerbase, absolutely.
People don't want to start over with a new character just to be allowed to buy a ship. Why would they, when the game is full of ships they can use with the one they have?
Non-Starfleet ships are made all the time. They are popular and profitable. The only ships that are NOT profitable are the ones that are artificially restricted to a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
... and the ships that are poorly designed. [Insert Varanus/Bor'tasque gripes here]
Is it because they're poorly designed, or because they're restricted?
I have the T6 Bortasque and I don't think it's that poorly designed. It's no Scimitar of course, but the game's easy.
There is no "Federation side," only the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. Hasn't been for years.
Once again, your assertion seems to fly in the face of what is actually presented in game. Starfleet very much has an identity all it's own. It has it's own art-style, history, mission and social zones. In most story content, you often refer to Starfleet, and occasionally refer to the Prime Directive (even if your faction isn't Starfleet or has a Prime Directive). The multi-faction ships are from some far point in the future, not STO's current date.
That doesn't mean there's a Starfleet "side." We are all on the same side here, with only artificial aesthetic restrictions cramping our creativity.
Do you think Cryptic would dissolve the most recognized, most popular FACTION in the Star Trek universe? The faction that has the most ships, the most assets, the most Z-store offerings? Never. Not in the lifetime of the game. At best, Cryptic would dissolve the Klingons and Romulans. This would allow Starfleet players to buy existing Klingon or Romluan ships, any new ships of those former factions would be in lockboxes or promo packs. If it was thematically appropriate, of course.
If by "dissolve" you mean "let everyone buy all the ships and clothes and stuff and do what they want," then I certainly hope they will. It is after all, the perfect solution. Otherwise I don't really get what you're trying to accomplish with that choice of words, but based on experience it's likely to be some kind of silly strawman.
This is not a factional game. We're all on the same side, doing the same things, working for the same people. The factions are just origin stories. And the restrictions are not just useless, but counterproductive.
It's interesting, you have so little faith in your faction and it's products you don't believe they could be profitable even if unrestricted, yet expect Cryptic to forcibly prop it up in all its unprofitableness anyway...for what?
I believe that Klingon and Romulan ships would be just as profitable as everything else, if they were sold to everyone. I also believe that if that should turn out not to be the case after all, we would be better off having access to the ships that are profitable to make, instead of being left begging for scraps the way the AoY pack was done.
Cryptic needs to do a poll/Questionaire to get a compele FAN take on state of game and what FANS want in game if possible to put in game.
Borg expand not good, no generals or admirals just a Queen, but Dominion yes, has generals and admirals sortof, plus Kardashians, I mean Cardi/Breen players in addition to Jem'Hardar/Vorta players, 4 new playable races. Biggest Expand to come [Gamma Quadrant Battle/Play Zones].
Klingons and Romulans do need full spread play like Federation has, maybe that would make them more interesting to players old and new with more profit for the Grand Nagus/Cryptic.
Add Star Empire as a third choice to Klingon or Federation to go as well, was in the story the whole time.
I would almost instantly buy a T6 Varanus for my single KDF character. IF I can use it one my 3 Federation science characters as well.
If not, then I'm more interested in buying another Sci ship for those 3 Fed characters.
It's quite simple, really. Remove the restrictions and I'd be happy to buy more Klingon ships, but I'm not going to do it for a single character of a faction that I don't find interesting enough to create more characters for.
This idea is unoriginal and boring. It would be tons of work and would not bring in extra revenue. It could arguably cause them to lose money so I'm not sure that it will happen. Will we see new ships that are factionless? Perhaps, but going back and redoing old ships to be factionless is just throwing money away from their perspective.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Perhaps making older ships cross-faction isn't interesting enough, but it would make sense to have all future ships as cross-faction ones.
It would support the storyline, it would remove the need to create ships that can only be used by a minority of the players/characters and it would thus support the factions that have thus far received less attention.
Moreover, it would support the majority of the players who play the single largest faction with new stuff. Really, I don't see any reason to keep separate factions (for future releases, again, going back to change everything might not be feasible indeed) at this point.
Even without 'uniting' the factions some of us would just be happy if we could use our Fed brethrens ships to run admiralty missions for us, after all when we start admiralty we are already one happy united coalition. So maybe make all store ships available in Admiralty and not as flyable ships? Would this make other faction ships more desirable?
Even without 'uniting' the factions some of us would just be happy if we could use our Fed brethrens ships to run admiralty missions for us, after all when we start admiralty we are already one happy united coalition. So maybe make all store ships available in Admiralty and not as flyable ships? Would this make other faction ships more desirable?
It would certainly help. And since we're supporting efforts from all faction members it would also be somewhat logical.
I mean, if my Federation admiral is helping the Klingons chart unknown territory with Fed ships, and my KDF character is helping supplying a Federation starbase with his own ships, would it really be an huge step for the Alliance members to send ships of the other factions on assignments?
We're already helping each other with everything so I think it would be a good idea.
Cryptic needs to do a poll/Questionaire to get a compele FAN take on state of game and what FANS want in game if possible to put in game.
Borg expand not good, no generals or admirals just a Queen, but Dominion yes, has generals and admirals sortof, plus Kardashians, I mean Cardi/Breen players in addition to Jem'Hardar/Vorta players, 4 new playable races. Biggest Expand to come [Gamma Quadrant Battle/Play Zones].
Klingons and Romulans do need full spread play like Federation has, maybe that would make them more interesting to players old and new with more profit for the Grand Nagus/Cryptic.
Add Star Empire as a third choice to Klingon or Federation to go as well, was in the story the whole time.
The last thing this game needs is even more minority "factions." Adding more origin stories could work, after the gameplay restrictions are removed.
I have no idea what "full spread play" means but if Starfleet has it, Klingons and Romulans probably have it too, seeing as all remotely new content is the same for everyone.
Comments
Personally, I'd like to see an end to Factions - they never really "applied" much in STO and do so even less, these days it seems like the biggest part Factions play is a divide/argument inducer on the Forums and not much else.
So no more Starfleet, Klingon, or Romulan ships, but just Cross-faction ships, Lockbox ships, Event Ships, Insanely Expensive Promo ships, and Micro-faction ships? A bit too early to confirm for sure due to the Kelvin Universe ships, the recent Promo, and the Flagships that came out in February.
Nobody does phrasing anymore?
Yep, it feels like it's old-timers who cling to the idea that years 1-2 of STO are still having a huge effect on faction ratios, when STO (like all MMOs) has a steady turnover of players. And those new players mostly pick Fed - Tactical (or now TOSfed - Tactical).
KDF and Rom get fewer ships, but if you look at the T6 choices with fresh eyes both have a good selection. The major lack is T6 faction science ships and carriers, but most new players choose tactical and tac / eng ships. So most new players who pick either faction won't ever feel the pain of SCIENCE! fans like me.
As long as thoese Feddies still buy these ships, all is good. Because that means Cryptic sells the ships, and that is the primary reason for them to make a ship. And if they don't end up playing them - that's great, because it means a tiny bit of immersion is preserved, as there aren't (m)any Starfleet Officers commanding KDF ships.
But overall it would mean Cryptic has reason to sell more KDF ships, because the sales are there.
Right, let's keep doing what Cryptic has been done for 6 years now, it has clearly worked wonders for KDF ship sales and KDF ship creations.
Oh wait, it hasn't.
Either most purchasing customers don't want KDF ships at all (possible), or they don't want to create non-FED alts for them. In the first case, you're totally screwed. In the second case - removing faction ships might do the trick.
Considering that lockbox ships traditionally have consisted of non-Federation designs, and they seem to be an important part of Cryptic's business model, I subscribe to the idea that the problem isn't that people don't wan to fly non-FED looking ships. So KDF ships would be an option. But they want to play them on their Fed toons.
Just because you wouldn't go anywhere near a non-native faction ship doesn't mean others wouldn't. And the continued popularity of the countless lockbox/lobi/event ships prove it.
Are you seriously suggesting that Klingon ships would be less popular than Breen ships, or Voth ships, or Na'kuhl, Iconian, Ferengi, Xindi, Dominion, Krenim, etc, etc, etc?
Non-Starfleet ships are made all the time. They are popular and profitable. The only ships that are NOT profitable are the ones that are artificially restricted to a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
My character Tsin'xing
You have alot smashed into one sentence here. First off, people will get the free ship because it's free. Doesn't mean the ship is desirable or popular. Second, lockbox/lobi ships tend to have better stats/traits/consoles than Z-store ships. This goes for promo ships as well. To state people want the ships because of looks alone is completely inaccurate. The mechanical benefits of lockbox/promo ships also come into play, especially if the lockbox ship is mechanically superior to the ships currently available to your faction.
According to Geko, yes. It makes sense to me. The only effort you need to do is create a Klingon character. Since that seems to be waaay to much effort, you could easily assume that any future T6 or T7 Klingon Coalition vessels would sell poorly if put in the Z-store.
... and the ships that are poorly designed. [Insert Varanus/Bor'tasque gripes here]
Once again, your assertion seems to fly in the face of what is actually presented in game. Starfleet very much has an identity all it's own. It has it's own art-style, history, mission and social zones. In most story content, you often refer to Starfleet, and occasionally refer to the Prime Directive (even if your faction isn't Starfleet or has a Prime Directive). The multi-faction ships are from some far point in the future, not STO's current date.
Do you think Cryptic would dissolve the most recognized, most popular FACTION in the Star Trek universe? The faction that has the most ships, the most assets, the most Z-store offerings? Never. Not in the lifetime of the game. At best, Cryptic would dissolve the Klingons and Romulans. This would allow Starfleet players to buy existing Klingon or Romluan ships, any new ships of those former factions would be in lockboxes or promo packs. If it was thematically appropriate, of course.
My character Tsin'xing
The ships are made. People want the ships. People would want Klingon ships, too, if they were allowed to buy them.
As long as they're restricted to <15% of the playerbase, absolutely.
People don't want to start over with a new character just to be allowed to buy a ship. Why would they, when the game is full of ships they can use with the one they have?
Is it because they're poorly designed, or because they're restricted?
I have the T6 Bortasque and I don't think it's that poorly designed. It's no Scimitar of course, but the game's easy.
That doesn't mean there's a Starfleet "side." We are all on the same side here, with only artificial aesthetic restrictions cramping our creativity.
If by "dissolve" you mean "let everyone buy all the ships and clothes and stuff and do what they want," then I certainly hope they will. It is after all, the perfect solution. Otherwise I don't really get what you're trying to accomplish with that choice of words, but based on experience it's likely to be some kind of silly strawman.
This is not a factional game. We're all on the same side, doing the same things, working for the same people. The factions are just origin stories. And the restrictions are not just useless, but counterproductive.
It's interesting, you have so little faith in your faction and it's products you don't believe they could be profitable even if unrestricted, yet expect Cryptic to forcibly prop it up in all its unprofitableness anyway...for what?
I believe that Klingon and Romulan ships would be just as profitable as everything else, if they were sold to everyone. I also believe that if that should turn out not to be the case after all, we would be better off having access to the ships that are profitable to make, instead of being left begging for scraps the way the AoY pack was done.
Borg expand not good, no generals or admirals just a Queen, but Dominion yes, has generals and admirals sortof, plus Kardashians, I mean Cardi/Breen players in addition to Jem'Hardar/Vorta players, 4 new playable races. Biggest Expand to come [Gamma Quadrant Battle/Play Zones].
Klingons and Romulans do need full spread play like Federation has, maybe that would make them more interesting to players old and new with more profit for the Grand Nagus/Cryptic.
Add Star Empire as a third choice to Klingon or Federation to go as well, was in the story the whole time.
If not, then I'm more interested in buying another Sci ship for those 3 Fed characters.
It's quite simple, really. Remove the restrictions and I'd be happy to buy more Klingon ships, but I'm not going to do it for a single character of a faction that I don't find interesting enough to create more characters for.
This idea is unoriginal and boring. It would be tons of work and would not bring in extra revenue. It could arguably cause them to lose money so I'm not sure that it will happen. Will we see new ships that are factionless? Perhaps, but going back and redoing old ships to be factionless is just throwing money away from their perspective.
Perhaps making older ships cross-faction isn't interesting enough, but it would make sense to have all future ships as cross-faction ones.
It would support the storyline, it would remove the need to create ships that can only be used by a minority of the players/characters and it would thus support the factions that have thus far received less attention.
Moreover, it would support the majority of the players who play the single largest faction with new stuff. Really, I don't see any reason to keep separate factions (for future releases, again, going back to change everything might not be feasible indeed) at this point.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
It would certainly help. And since we're supporting efforts from all faction members it would also be somewhat logical.
I mean, if my Federation admiral is helping the Klingons chart unknown territory with Fed ships, and my KDF character is helping supplying a Federation starbase with his own ships, would it really be an huge step for the Alliance members to send ships of the other factions on assignments?
We're already helping each other with everything so I think it would be a good idea.
The last thing this game needs is even more minority "factions." Adding more origin stories could work, after the gameplay restrictions are removed.
I have no idea what "full spread play" means but if Starfleet has it, Klingons and Romulans probably have it too, seeing as all remotely new content is the same for everyone.