The UI eating FPS is a serious issue and really needs to be sorted out, UI's should not be anywhere near as intensive as the one in STO is.
...and considering how CPU limited the consoles are they need every bit of performance they can get, they will have to sacrifice things just to compensate for the amount of CPU power the UI takes, so if they have found a way to optimise the UI on the consoles they should bring that performance to the PC aswell.
I don't think anyone here is advocating the console UI should be applied to the PC version, at least I'm not.
Why not?
The PC version already has option to operate it with a console controller, so I see no reason why it shouldn't also get the option of using a UI optimized for a console controller.
I agree got to much dust collecting on my PC Xbox controller LOL
If you're talking about porting the console UI to PC- then I'm all for it as long as it's OPTIONAL and not mandatory.
There will be at least two problems with supporting two alternative vastly UI schemes:
1) it is unknown if their back-end mechanisms are entirely compatible. Quite likely they are not
Actually, in a Priority One Podcast interview with Steve Ricossa; Executive Producer of STO; from May 2016 I believe, he stated development for the console version of STO would not commence unless they could develop a viable UI for consoles on the PC version of STO to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller. Therefore, the beck-end mechanisms should be fully compatible.
he stated development for the console version of STO would not commence unless they could develop a viable UI for consoles on the PC version of STO to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller.
Errrm, wat ? Why would you develop console UI for a PC ? I think, you either misunderstood what he was saying or explained his words here incorrectly.
to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller.
How else could be it be played on a console ? All consoles use controller as their main input device. Support of mouse/keyboard is either optional or officially doesn't exist. And for some console game use of mouse&keyboarder is borderline with cheating due to the advantages it gives.
he stated development for the console version of STO would not commence unless they could develop a viable UI for consoles on the PC version of STO to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller.
Errrm, wat ? Why would you develop console UI for a PC ? I think, you either misunderstood what he was saying or explained his words here incorrectly.
to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller.
How else could be it be played on a console ? All consoles use controller as their main input device. Support of mouse/keyboard is either optional or officially doesn't exist. And for some console game use of mouse&keyboarder is borderline with cheating due to the advantages it gives.
he stated development for the console version of STO would not commence unless they could develop a viable UI for consoles on the PC version of STO to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller.
Errrm, wat ? Why would you develop console UI for a PC ? I think, you either misunderstood what he was saying or explained his words here incorrectly.
to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller.
How else could be it be played on a console ? All consoles use controller as their main input device. Support of mouse/keyboard is either optional or officially doesn't exist. And for some console game use of mouse&keyboarder is borderline with cheating due to the advantages it gives.
It seems you have not listened to the Priority One Podcast Interview with Steve Ricossa. Therefore, you have no real basis to dispute my statements. While I no absolutely no interest in the console version of STO or using a controller to play STO on the PC, I absolutely do pay attention to the contents of an interview if I am going to reference them any post.
If you want to have further discussion about it, then I recommend you listen to the interview so that we both have the same point of reference for discussion. The link is below.
so I see no reason why it shouldn't also get the option of using a UI optimized for a console controller.
Maybe you know ... because supporting two entirely different UI schemes in one game is not feasible from the development point of view?
Gotta agree with you one this one, There are enough problems plaguing the game as it is, without adding more to it, based on something that in my opinion is little more than a "Would be nice" option. If Cryptic can actually manage to sort the more serious issue's out in game, then by all means look at tweaking the UI. The in consistent frame rate issue's in various maps being a point in question.
[
The UI itself causes a very noticeable performance drop which is especially noticeable when opening up windows in a graphic heavy area such as ESD and other locations and situations.
I can't recall the last time I saw a frame drop of more than 10fps and that's on both DS9 and ESD normally with the Inventory and doff/Admiralty UI windows open. Some of the maps I do notice significant drops in frame rates are Crystalline Catastrophe and on occasion Infected space at worst case I'm down to single digit frame rates. But that might be more to do with the graphics engine more than anything else.
Now we're getting to what you've meant, but:
a) this not what you've written nor in fact your post was equivalent to what Steven Ricossa said (he was talking about that the first they made some prototypes for the future controller use scheme to make sure it is feasible)
b) that fact doesn't mean that the final version of console UI (not some prototypes they made early on) in all it entirety retained full compatibility on the back-end with the current PC UI. Not to mention the fact the new console UI is not just the support of controller.
I will absolutely cry if they address Win issues the same way they addressed Mac performance issues. I believe the forums would explode of that kind of treatment also.
One of the many Tellarite Goddesses of Beauty!
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
Now we're getting to what you've meant, but:
a) this not what you've written nor in fact your post was equivalent to what Steven Ricossa said (he was talking about that the first they made some prototypes for the future controller use scheme to make sure it is feasible)
b) that fact doesn't mean that the final version of console UI (not some prototypes they made early on) in all it entirety retained full compatibility on the back-end with the current PC UI. Not to mention the fact the new console UI is not just the support of controller.
The control scheme and the console UI goes hand-in-hand. The controller only has so many buttons so that the UI itself must be developed in such away that playing STO using only the controller needs to be viable enough to proceed with further development of the console versions of the game and to further refine console UI and controller scheme for the final product. He mentioned that there were some people who were doing play testing of scheme.
Getting back to the point about the console UI on the PC... It seems I neglected to edit out sylveriarelden's comment and fleshed out my comment since the original intent of my post was that the UI for the console could work with the PC version because it was being prototyped on the PC. Thus, it is possible for Cryptic to release a UI similar to the console on the PC version. That way PC players can opt to either use the traditional keyboard/mouse method to play STO or use the UI intended for consoles.
I can't imagine how some people can currently manage to play STO on the PC using an Xbox controller. But then again, the last time I touched such a controller was when Halo 2 was released.
As I stated before I would not mind if they added the console UI as an option but forcing the UI that was developed in order to facilitate controller use (which was their intent from the beginning) without retaining the ability to use the current interface is absurd.
I wouldn't mind if they streamlined some of the graphics/functions a bit- but I am completely opposed to the "click wheel" functionality having to mouse into a wheel interface to choose "deeper" levels for options (skills, etc.) to be displayed on screen and the like. Leave my ability bars alone- stop pigeonholing everyone who uses a mouse and keyboard into a differently displayed function just because controllers are limited to X amount of buttons.
There are two different issues being discussed here, yes but they blend together for obvious reasons. The UI (console) and the Input interface (mouse/keyboard vs controller) and their whole intent for pouring money into development to "reshape" the UI was based on their introduction of STO for CONSOLE development in the first place. They didn't just wake up one day and decide to clear money to develop a completely new UI scheme for PC, though undoubtedly I'm sure there were those who wished it could be restyled. This whole introduction was facilitated by the CONSOLE to begin with and that's why it's an issue. That said, CONSOLES use CONTROLLERS to input, so their UI's are based on the controllers limited buttons/input ability.
Now, I'm also in agreement that the PC UI could use a facelift/overhaul in many ways- and I'd love to see a bit of "streamlining" and so forth (especially if it helps FPS/etc) but what I am absolutely opposed to is this routine that is so prevalent these days with developing a "streamlined" (limited) interface for consoles then porting it over to PC's. It's a lazy cost-saving feature that forces limitations on PC users (like having "x amount of abilities displayed at once") just because consoles are limited in their input functions.
My intent is NOT to introduce a "MOAR PC MASTER RACE!!!!!" diversion- I'm simply stating that I personally am completely and adamantly opposed to a lazy/sloppy console UI port for PC if it's being forced onto PC users without the option to retain the current interface. No one is arguing that console users must use the current PC interface at all- nor a mouse and keyboard. So why the push in the other direction?
Oh and as for the argument that it's not "feasible" to support two different UI's- would you force an airplane pilot to use the same controls as you ride a bicycle with- just because it's "streamlined" for that interface? As a matter of logic here, there are many reasons for having not only two different input systems- but also two different interfaces themselves.
PC's are NOT limited in terms of performance/upgradability
Consoles ARE limited in terms of performance/upgradability
Play YOUR game the way you want to play- but leave MY game alone.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
If you're talking about porting the console UI to PC- then I'm all for it as long as it's OPTIONAL and not mandatory.
This is where I sit as well.
I would like to be able to play STO on my large living room TV using my controller sometimes, it would be nice if the option existed. The great thing about it being an option is that those that don't want it, simply ignore it and nothing changes. I honestly believe that the core reason they won't release the console AI as a choice for PC players is that they want people to go make another account on their console for when they want to play from the couch.
Someone else said it would be too hard to do, to allow both interfaces as options. As a counter to that, I offer pretty much every video game that's been made within the last 10 years. It's been a standard in games for a long time now to have them support either a controller or KB/Mouse. Lets not pretend that adding this option would be some ground breaking technical leap.
Someone else said it would be too hard to do, to allow both interfaces as options. As a counter to that, I offer pretty much every video game that's been made within the last 10 years. It's been a standard in games for a long time now to have them support either a controller or KB/Mouse. Lets not pretend that adding this option would be some ground breaking technical leap.
And do these games have an entirely separate UI for the use of controller, which will be the case in STO ? Moreover, an UI, which works on the different principles, then the "main" PC UI ? Something tells me they don't - they instead use either the existing UI or an existing UI with slight adjustments for the use of controller (not the major overhaul like the one in case of STO's console UI).
I'll have to repeat again - we're not talking about some minor adjustments or some secondary customization here. In case of STO's console UI we're dealing with completely different scheme compared to the existing one
Game forums are always full of armchair programmers trying to pretend they know how easy/hard something is to do. Funny how that assessment of difficulty seems to always follow what they want to happen.
In reality, whether plugging in an alternate UI is easy or hard depends entirely on how the system is implemented in the source code. So, unless Cryptic's programmers come give their two cents on the subject, we have no information and arguing about everyone's self-serving guesses is pointless.
Comments
...and considering how CPU limited the consoles are they need every bit of performance they can get, they will have to sacrifice things just to compensate for the amount of CPU power the UI takes, so if they have found a way to optimise the UI on the consoles they should bring that performance to the PC aswell.
I agree got to much dust collecting on my PC Xbox controller LOL
Actually, in a Priority One Podcast interview with Steve Ricossa; Executive Producer of STO; from May 2016 I believe, he stated development for the console version of STO would not commence unless they could develop a viable UI for consoles on the PC version of STO to make sure the console port would be playable with a handheld controller. Therefore, the beck-end mechanisms should be fully compatible.
How else could be it be played on a console ? All consoles use controller as their main input device. Support of mouse/keyboard is either optional or officially doesn't exist. And for some console game use of mouse&keyboarder is borderline with cheating due to the advantages it gives.
It seems you have not listened to the Priority One Podcast Interview with Steve Ricossa. Therefore, you have no real basis to dispute my statements. While I no absolutely no interest in the console version of STO or using a controller to play STO on the PC, I absolutely do pay attention to the contents of an interview if I am going to reference them any post.
If you want to have further discussion about it, then I recommend you listen to the interview so that we both have the same point of reference for discussion. The link is below.
http://priorityonepodcast.com/po271/
Gotta agree with you one this one, There are enough problems plaguing the game as it is, without adding more to it, based on something that in my opinion is little more than a "Would be nice" option. If Cryptic can actually manage to sort the more serious issue's out in game, then by all means look at tweaking the UI. The in consistent frame rate issue's in various maps being a point in question.
I can't recall the last time I saw a frame drop of more than 10fps and that's on both DS9 and ESD normally with the Inventory and doff/Admiralty UI windows open. Some of the maps I do notice significant drops in frame rates are Crystalline Catastrophe and on occasion Infected space at worst case I'm down to single digit frame rates. But that might be more to do with the graphics engine more than anything else.
a) this not what you've written nor in fact your post was equivalent to what Steven Ricossa said (he was talking about that the first they made some prototypes for the future controller use scheme to make sure it is feasible)
b) that fact doesn't mean that the final version of console UI (not some prototypes they made early on) in all it entirety retained full compatibility on the back-end with the current PC UI. Not to mention the fact the new console UI is not just the support of controller.
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
The control scheme and the console UI goes hand-in-hand. The controller only has so many buttons so that the UI itself must be developed in such away that playing STO using only the controller needs to be viable enough to proceed with further development of the console versions of the game and to further refine console UI and controller scheme for the final product. He mentioned that there were some people who were doing play testing of scheme.
Getting back to the point about the console UI on the PC... It seems I neglected to edit out sylveriarelden's comment and fleshed out my comment since the original intent of my post was that the UI for the console could work with the PC version because it was being prototyped on the PC. Thus, it is possible for Cryptic to release a UI similar to the console on the PC version. That way PC players can opt to either use the traditional keyboard/mouse method to play STO or use the UI intended for consoles.
I can't imagine how some people can currently manage to play STO on the PC using an Xbox controller. But then again, the last time I touched such a controller was when Halo 2 was released.
I wouldn't mind if they streamlined some of the graphics/functions a bit- but I am completely opposed to the "click wheel" functionality having to mouse into a wheel interface to choose "deeper" levels for options (skills, etc.) to be displayed on screen and the like. Leave my ability bars alone- stop pigeonholing everyone who uses a mouse and keyboard into a differently displayed function just because controllers are limited to X amount of buttons.
There are two different issues being discussed here, yes but they blend together for obvious reasons. The UI (console) and the Input interface (mouse/keyboard vs controller) and their whole intent for pouring money into development to "reshape" the UI was based on their introduction of STO for CONSOLE development in the first place. They didn't just wake up one day and decide to clear money to develop a completely new UI scheme for PC, though undoubtedly I'm sure there were those who wished it could be restyled. This whole introduction was facilitated by the CONSOLE to begin with and that's why it's an issue. That said, CONSOLES use CONTROLLERS to input, so their UI's are based on the controllers limited buttons/input ability.
Now, I'm also in agreement that the PC UI could use a facelift/overhaul in many ways- and I'd love to see a bit of "streamlining" and so forth (especially if it helps FPS/etc) but what I am absolutely opposed to is this routine that is so prevalent these days with developing a "streamlined" (limited) interface for consoles then porting it over to PC's. It's a lazy cost-saving feature that forces limitations on PC users (like having "x amount of abilities displayed at once") just because consoles are limited in their input functions.
My intent is NOT to introduce a "MOAR PC MASTER RACE!!!!!" diversion- I'm simply stating that I personally am completely and adamantly opposed to a lazy/sloppy console UI port for PC if it's being forced onto PC users without the option to retain the current interface. No one is arguing that console users must use the current PC interface at all- nor a mouse and keyboard. So why the push in the other direction?
Oh and as for the argument that it's not "feasible" to support two different UI's- would you force an airplane pilot to use the same controls as you ride a bicycle with- just because it's "streamlined" for that interface? As a matter of logic here, there are many reasons for having not only two different input systems- but also two different interfaces themselves.
Play YOUR game the way you want to play- but leave MY game alone.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
This is where I sit as well.
I would like to be able to play STO on my large living room TV using my controller sometimes, it would be nice if the option existed. The great thing about it being an option is that those that don't want it, simply ignore it and nothing changes. I honestly believe that the core reason they won't release the console AI as a choice for PC players is that they want people to go make another account on their console for when they want to play from the couch.
Someone else said it would be too hard to do, to allow both interfaces as options. As a counter to that, I offer pretty much every video game that's been made within the last 10 years. It's been a standard in games for a long time now to have them support either a controller or KB/Mouse. Lets not pretend that adding this option would be some ground breaking technical leap.
I'll have to repeat again - we're not talking about some minor adjustments or some secondary customization here. In case of STO's console UI we're dealing with completely different scheme compared to the existing one
In reality, whether plugging in an alternate UI is easy or hard depends entirely on how the system is implemented in the source code. So, unless Cryptic's programmers come give their two cents on the subject, we have no information and arguing about everyone's self-serving guesses is pointless.