Maybe the Eternal is supposed to be the Vesta's successor, maybe not. It wouldn't really make much sense considering the U.S.S. Vesta is shown in the Tutorial as the "first of her class" - why replace a a new ship class so quickly?
Well the lineage from Vesta to Eternal spans 2400s to the 31st century. So it's not that quickly.
This is the classic Cryptic gray area. Stats wise, the ship succeeds the Vesta. A really strong case can be made for that line of thought.
But that's it. It's just a strong case. And this being trek fans, the minutiae will get pored over like it's a big massive deal. Like just basically looking at their setups, the Eternal is a science vessel with a similar turn rate and console and boff layout that has a hangar pet. And it's called Multi Mission. But there's no 3 versions, there's no aux cannons, and so on and so forth.
That's where the debate will live. And grow. There will never be a definitive YES or NO offered in that debate. Cryptic won't close the door on a potential future ship sale possibility. So they're not going to say "No there will be no T6 Vesta. And here's why" ... but in the gray area there is a strong argument to be made that that TYPE of ship does currently exist in T6.
This happens a lot in this game and on these forums. Cryptic won't say YES or NO forever to a lot of things, from T6 Connies to Kelvin Timeline stuff to whatever. But that doesn't stop us from arguing that this tiny detail here or this tiny detail there is definitive proof of X, Y and/or Z.
So with a Multi-Mission... already at T6, what would they call the T6 Vesta - Multitudinous-Mission....?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Eternal is not even close to vesta. Its multi-mission sci ship and Vesta is multi-mission explorer. I hope some day Vesta T6 come with intel/pilot seating.
I would be happy if they'd just allow us to use the Vesta skin on either the Paradox or the other temporal science ship.
Both ships are technically better than the Vesta but I just like the Vesta too much so I'm still using that one even though my main science toon has access to all of them.
I'm just gonna repost what I originally intended to start a thread with, which was ignored for some reason.
I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but is there a possibility of a T6 Vesta? I heard some rumors that it is not possible because of licensing problems, but no one saying that gave a source. Now, you could say that the Eternal class is the T6 Vesta, since it has hangar pets and is called a "Temporal Multi-Mission Science Vessel", but I think that there are some key differences. First, it can't equip cannons, second, it can't use the original T5 Vesta consoles, third it's not compatible with Vesta costumes.
So, I am saying that I would like a "real" T6 Vesta that can use the costumes, consoles and cannons. I have a bit of an idea for it in my head, but feel free to flesh it out.
First, I believe it should get an Intel BOFF seat, because that was its role in the novels (most notably "Zero Sum Game", the first part of the Typhon Pact series). While the Intel ships would rely on cloak to achieve such missions as in said novel, the USS Aventine used its Quantum Slipstream Drive in order to appear in Breen space in the blink of an eye, and used it to escape back to Federation space before the Breen could react.
Second, I believe it should get another console, though I am not sure which one or what it should do.
Third (and this is where I really stretch it), I think it should get a fourth fore weapon slot. The only science vessel that has this is the Annorax Science dreadnought, and this setup works better with the option to equip cannons.
As for the hybrid BOFF station, I think Cmdr. Sci/Intel would work best, but it shouldn't get any other hybrid seats in that case.
I'm just gonna repost what I originally intended to start a thread with, which was ignored for some reason.
I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but is there a possibility of a T6 Vesta? I heard some rumors that it is not possible because of licensing problems, but no one saying that gave a source. Now, you could say that the Eternal class is the T6 Vesta, since it has hangar pets and is called a "Temporal Multi-Mission Science Vessel", but I think that there are some key differences. First, it can't equip cannons, second, it can't use the original T5 Vesta consoles, third it's not compatible with Vesta costumes.
So, I am saying that I would like a "real" T6 Vesta that can use the costumes, consoles and cannons. I have a bit of an idea for it in my head, but feel free to flesh it out.
First, I believe it should get an Intel BOFF seat, because that was its role in the novels (most notably "Zero Sum Game", the first part of the Typhon Pact series). While the Intel ships would rely on cloak to achieve such missions as in said novel, the USS Aventine used its Quantum Slipstream Drive in order to appear in Breen space in the blink of an eye, and used it to escape back to Federation space before the Breen could react.
Second, I believe it should get another console, though I am not sure which one or what it should do.
Third (and this is where I really stretch it), I think it should get a fourth fore weapon slot. The only science vessel that has this is the Annorax Science dreadnought, and this setup works better with the option to equip cannons.
As for the hybrid BOFF station, I think Cmdr. Sci/Intel would work best, but it shouldn't get any other hybrid seats in that case.
Paradox also has a 4/3 setup and is very Sci heavy, with hangers. Don't forget that one.
Agreed, its gotta be Intel. At least for my needs. Id be disappointed with anything else.
Mostly, I just want a T6 platform for the Vesta consoles.
They could make an Aux DBB, but I'm just looking for a slot where I can put another Aux DHB. I'll be running a beam array/DHB combination, because that's how it was like in the books, and I already had an Eclipse with that setup and it worked quite well.
That said, the Eternal (and all of the 31st Century ships for that matter) has left a bad taste in my mouth with having NO skin customization outside of choosing a color/pattern and if you're looking to get them just keep in mind that you're pretty much buying the ships "as is" in terms of aesthetics.
This is probably one of the more disappointing decisions they've made for ships...
That's such a huge slap in the face to the community you know? Makes me think Rademaker needs to be told what's what by the true trek fans that keep the community going.
((cough))((sputter)) Geeze, man, give some warning when you're gonna do that! I almost choked on my food when I read that .
Honestly I'm a bit intrigued by the licensing/contract process that went into it's only appearance here that they didn't secure rights to use the image/form at more than just a single tier in the first place.
You know, since T6 variants are "upgrades" over the T5 ones, new hull and all, wouldn't a T6 "Vesta" have to be, in it's own way, a "severe stylistic upgrade" to fit what the other T6s look like, to the point that the T6 "Vesta" wouldn't be "Vesta enough" to be held under Rademaker's "trademark" on it?
But, you know, there's another option here that I'm... shocked... that the community hasn't even hinted at.
KDF and/or RR ships have such a completely different aesthetic, and Cryptic (not Rademaker) "owns" the stat package, so there's the perfect place to release the new T6 "Vesta(s)"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
"KDF and/or RR ships have such a completely different aesthetic, and Cryptic (not Rademaker) "owns" the stat package, so there's the perfectplace to release the new T6 "Vesta(s)"..."
The Eternal IS basically the same stat package as the Vesta upgraded. Seriously its 95% the Vesta.
Vesta has Commander Sci, Lt. Commander Universal, Lt. Engineering, Lt. Tac, Ensign Uni
The Eternal has Commander Sci/Temp, Lt. Commander Uni, Lt. Commander Engineering, Lt. Tac/Temp, Uni Sci.
The only difference is the Engineer is bumped a rank, the commander and tac lt. are made hyrids, and the uni goes from uni to sci to make sure you can't fly a science ship with zero science powers.
You can do any Vesta build you want on the ship that does 100% require the ensign be tac. If you uni ensign was engineer just move the power into the new boff power granted to your Lt. Commander Engineer, if its a science power its covered.
Plus you have a host of new build options thanks to Temporal Boff powes, Molecular Reconstruction, MDB, new pets, 31st Century Consoles, Lt Commander Engineering Boff power.
You know, I've seen many comments over time regarding PWE/C's inability to use the Vesta past Tier 5 because of "trademark" issues, etc. but I have not seen any citations to back up the claim. Is there a syndicated source we can reference here or is it just pure speculation/supposition?
I'd love to see some actual statements from an unbiased source.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I'm just gonna repost what I originally intended to start a thread with, which was ignored for some reason.
I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but is there a possibility of a T6 Vesta? I heard some rumors that it is not possible because of licensing problems, but no one saying that gave a source.
It wasn't ignored. The answer is short and largely uninteresting: No. It's NOT possible. Unless something changes, in which case you're asking for prophecy. Maybe go post the question on Rademaker's site and see if you get a more interesting answer.
The reasons that's true and alternatives that can be pursued are more interesting, and that's what people talked about .
If they'd allow us to use the Vesta skin on, say, the Eternal, it wouldn't really be a T6 Vesta, right? It would just be a T6 Eternal class ship that has access to the Vesta skin. A skin that they already have the rights for to use.
I know, it's probably not that simple from a juridical perspective... it's just foolish hope that made me write this statement
If they'd allow us to use the Vesta skin on, say, the Eternal, it wouldn't really be a T6 Vesta, right? It would just be a T6 Eternal class ship that has access to the Vesta skin. A skin that they already have the rights for to use.
I know, it's probably not that simple from a juridical perspective... it's just foolish hope that made me write this statement
Oh, I'z pretty sure they DON'T have the rights to use that imagery/form in any fashion they choose.
Just as a way of looking around, have we ever had Vesta-skinned NPCs appear? Are those assets in the Foundry?
It wasn't ignored. The answer is short and largely uninteresting: No. It's NOT possible. Unless something changes, in which case you're asking for prophecy. Maybe go post the question on Rademaker's site and see if you get a more interesting answer.
The reasons that's true and alternatives that can be pursued are more interesting, and that's what people talked about .
The main problem I have with this is that no one making this claim backed it up with a source. Did the devs say that there were problems, did Rademaker say it's not possible etc. I know that it took a long time negotiating the license, but it would be very strange if Cryptic couldn't use it for making a T6 version (though it could be that at the point they decided to bring the Vesta, they didn't even know they were going to make T6 ships, thus the agreement might not cover a T6 version).
Now I could go asking on Rademaker's site, and I might be 100% certain if I do this and get an answer, but I'm not going to entirely rule out the possibility.
Oh, I'z pretty sure they DON'T have the rights to use that imagery/form in any fashion they choose.
Just as a way of looking around, have we ever had Vesta-skinned NPCs appear? Are those assets in the Foundry?
Yes, there are Vesta-skinned NPCs.
1. They appear as battleship-level mobs. link
2. The USS Hypatia in the Solanae Dyson Sphere. link
3. You can create NPC starships with a Vesta skin in the foundry.
If they'd allow us to use the Vesta skin on, say, the Eternal, it wouldn't really be a T6 Vesta, right? It would just be a T6 Eternal class ship that has access to the Vesta skin. A skin that they already have the rights for to use.
I know, it's probably not that simple from a juridical perspective... it's just foolish hope that made me write this statement
Ok, let's get something clear. There is a difference between the model (or frame, if you will) of a ship and the skin that covers it.
If you tried to put a Vesta 'skin' on an Eternal 'frame', the result would be horrifyingly worse than the worst design Cryptic ever came up with.
Imagine trying to put a Janeway skin on a Worf body. I'll allow time for you to throw up before you reply.
It wasn't ignored. The answer is short and largely uninteresting: No. It's NOT possible. Unless something changes, in which case you're asking for prophecy. Maybe go post the question on Rademaker's site and see if you get a more interesting answer.
The reasons that's true and alternatives that can be pursued are more interesting, and that's what people talked about .
The main problem I have with this is that no one making this claim backed it up with a source. Did the devs say that there were problems, did Rademaker say it's not possible etc. I know that it took a long time negotiating the license, but it would be very strange if Cryptic couldn't use it for making a T6 version (though it could be that at the point they decided to bring the Vesta, they didn't even know they were going to make T6 ships, thus the agreement might not cover a T6 version).
Now I could go asking on Rademaker's site, and I might be 100% certain if I do this and get an answer, but I'm not going to entirely rule out the possibility.
Agreed. Thus the reason I asked the same question as well. Public forums are replete with speculation and rumor.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
If they'd allow us to use the Vesta skin on, say, the Eternal, it wouldn't really be a T6 Vesta, right? It would just be a T6 Eternal class ship that has access to the Vesta skin. A skin that they already have the rights for to use.
I know, it's probably not that simple from a juridical perspective... it's just foolish hope that made me write this statement
Ok, let's get something clear. There is a difference between the model (or frame, if you will) of a ship and the skin that covers it.
If you tried to put a Vesta 'skin' on an Eternal 'frame', the result would be horrifyingly worse than the worst design Cryptic ever came up with.
Imagine trying to put a Janeway skin on a Worf body. I'll allow time for you to throw up before you reply.
Throwing up? Nah, I've notified the Son'a there's work to do
Comments
Which makes it feel weird sometimes flying it on my KDF player, but I remind myself it would still have Orion technology within it.
Well the lineage from Vesta to Eternal spans 2400s to the 31st century. So it's not that quickly.
This is the classic Cryptic gray area. Stats wise, the ship succeeds the Vesta. A really strong case can be made for that line of thought.
But that's it. It's just a strong case. And this being trek fans, the minutiae will get pored over like it's a big massive deal. Like just basically looking at their setups, the Eternal is a science vessel with a similar turn rate and console and boff layout that has a hangar pet. And it's called Multi Mission. But there's no 3 versions, there's no aux cannons, and so on and so forth.
That's where the debate will live. And grow. There will never be a definitive YES or NO offered in that debate. Cryptic won't close the door on a potential future ship sale possibility. So they're not going to say "No there will be no T6 Vesta. And here's why" ... but in the gray area there is a strong argument to be made that that TYPE of ship does currently exist in T6.
This happens a lot in this game and on these forums. Cryptic won't say YES or NO forever to a lot of things, from T6 Connies to Kelvin Timeline stuff to whatever. But that doesn't stop us from arguing that this tiny detail here or this tiny detail there is definitive proof of X, Y and/or Z.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Both ships are technically better than the Vesta but I just like the Vesta too much so I'm still using that one even though my main science toon has access to all of them.
I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but is there a possibility of a T6 Vesta? I heard some rumors that it is not possible because of licensing problems, but no one saying that gave a source. Now, you could say that the Eternal class is the T6 Vesta, since it has hangar pets and is called a "Temporal Multi-Mission Science Vessel", but I think that there are some key differences. First, it can't equip cannons, second, it can't use the original T5 Vesta consoles, third it's not compatible with Vesta costumes.
So, I am saying that I would like a "real" T6 Vesta that can use the costumes, consoles and cannons. I have a bit of an idea for it in my head, but feel free to flesh it out.
First, I believe it should get an Intel BOFF seat, because that was its role in the novels (most notably "Zero Sum Game", the first part of the Typhon Pact series). While the Intel ships would rely on cloak to achieve such missions as in said novel, the USS Aventine used its Quantum Slipstream Drive in order to appear in Breen space in the blink of an eye, and used it to escape back to Federation space before the Breen could react.
Second, I believe it should get another console, though I am not sure which one or what it should do.
Third (and this is where I really stretch it), I think it should get a fourth fore weapon slot. The only science vessel that has this is the Annorax Science dreadnought, and this setup works better with the option to equip cannons.
As for the hybrid BOFF station, I think Cmdr. Sci/Intel would work best, but it shouldn't get any other hybrid seats in that case.
Who's the prettiest of them all?
Paradox also has a 4/3 setup and is very Sci heavy, with hangers. Don't forget that one.
Agreed, its gotta be Intel. At least for my needs. Id be disappointed with anything else.
Mostly, I just want a T6 platform for the Vesta consoles.
Who's the prettiest of them all?
This is probably one of the more disappointing decisions they've made for ships...
((cough))((sputter)) Geeze, man, give some warning when you're gonna do that! I almost choked on my food when I read that
Honestly I'm a bit intrigued by the licensing/contract process that went into it's only appearance here that they didn't secure rights to use the image/form at more than just a single tier in the first place.
But, you know, there's another option here that I'm... shocked... that the community hasn't even hinted at.
KDF and/or RR ships have such a completely different aesthetic, and Cryptic (not Rademaker) "owns" the stat package, so there's the perfect place to release the new T6 "Vesta(s)"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The Eternal IS basically the same stat package as the Vesta upgraded. Seriously its 95% the Vesta.
Vesta has Commander Sci, Lt. Commander Universal, Lt. Engineering, Lt. Tac, Ensign Uni
The Eternal has Commander Sci/Temp, Lt. Commander Uni, Lt. Commander Engineering, Lt. Tac/Temp, Uni Sci.
The only difference is the Engineer is bumped a rank, the commander and tac lt. are made hyrids, and the uni goes from uni to sci to make sure you can't fly a science ship with zero science powers.
You can do any Vesta build you want on the ship that does 100% require the ensign be tac. If you uni ensign was engineer just move the power into the new boff power granted to your Lt. Commander Engineer, if its a science power its covered.
Plus you have a host of new build options thanks to Temporal Boff powes, Molecular Reconstruction, MDB, new pets, 31st Century Consoles, Lt Commander Engineering Boff power.
I'd love to see some actual statements from an unbiased source.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
It wasn't ignored. The answer is short and largely uninteresting: No. It's NOT possible. Unless something changes, in which case you're asking for prophecy. Maybe go post the question on Rademaker's site and see if you get a more interesting answer.
The reasons that's true and alternatives that can be pursued are more interesting, and that's what people talked about
I know, it's probably not that simple from a juridical perspective... it's just foolish hope that made me write this statement
Oh, I'z pretty sure they DON'T have the rights to use that imagery/form in any fashion they choose.
Just as a way of looking around, have we ever had Vesta-skinned NPCs appear? Are those assets in the Foundry?
Doesn't make it more likely that they can use it on another playable T6 probably though.
The main problem I have with this is that no one making this claim backed it up with a source. Did the devs say that there were problems, did Rademaker say it's not possible etc. I know that it took a long time negotiating the license, but it would be very strange if Cryptic couldn't use it for making a T6 version (though it could be that at the point they decided to bring the Vesta, they didn't even know they were going to make T6 ships, thus the agreement might not cover a T6 version).
Now I could go asking on Rademaker's site, and I might be 100% certain if I do this and get an answer, but I'm not going to entirely rule out the possibility.
Who's the prettiest of them all?
Yes, there are Vesta-skinned NPCs.
1. They appear as battleship-level mobs. link
2. The USS Hypatia in the Solanae Dyson Sphere. link
3. You can create NPC starships with a Vesta skin in the foundry.
Who's the prettiest of them all?
Ok, let's get something clear. There is a difference between the model (or frame, if you will) of a ship and the skin that covers it.
If you tried to put a Vesta 'skin' on an Eternal 'frame', the result would be horrifyingly worse than the worst design Cryptic ever came up with.
Imagine trying to put a Janeway skin on a Worf body. I'll allow time for you to throw up before you reply.
Agreed. Thus the reason I asked the same question as well. Public forums are replete with speculation and rumor.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Throwing up? Nah, I've notified the Son'a there's work to do