Awesome. I wonder, did Na'kuhl reignite itself, or did the Galactic Union use the Tox Uthat to reignite it?
I thought it was a timeline change--the USS Janeway was commanded by a Na'kuhl, so I interpreted it to mean a new timeline where their star had never been attacked and they had never declared the Federation to be their enemy in the first place.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
What would happen if the Tox-Uthat itself, were to somehow be suddenly destroyed?
Would everything revert back to the way it was?
As likely as that vaporized people come back after you destroy your phaser.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
and then they all wake up... it was a dream ,
all the na'kuls were being re-conditioned at a temporal blacksite run by section 31 in the 31th century.
One Na'kuhl emerges from his conditioning booth and is handed a suitcase with a name on it. He opens the suitcase and examines the strange artifacts inside, he studies the identification tag and looks in the mirror... a multifaceted expression forms on his face - one of confusion, disappointment, dread, shock and abject horror as he stares forlornly at the image before him. He turns to his colleagues with a pained and desperate look on his face and asks rhetorically:
Ah, closure! Thank you Cryptic and the unspecified author of this tale. As the old saying (by 31st century standards) goes: the Defiant always gets it in the end.
Jolan'tru & cheers… RRF Captain Cybyl
Now where did I stash my Vegemite…
Thus spake Admiral Cybyl: Alea iacta est. Ibis redibis,numquam per bello peribis. Ergo, per aspera ad astra!
What's the title of this one a reference to? It sounds familiar.
Shakespeare...
" H A M L E T "
(Act-4, Scene- 4)
{Captain} "...Truly to speak, and with no addition,
We go to gain a little patch of ground That hath in it no profit but the name.
To pay five ducats, five, I would not farm it..."
{To which Hamlet thinks to himself as an aside to the audience}
(translation from original old English...)
"Even two thousand men and twenty-thousand ducats are just the beginning of what it will cost to settle this pointless matter. This is what happens when countries have too much money and peace. This quarrel is like an abcess that grows inside someone until it bursts and kills them, and no one knows why..."
{He then responds to the Captain} Thank you very much for the information, sir."
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Based on what we know closing the loop on the Temporal Cold War would likely mean/involve Na'kuhl never being destroyed (because the Tholians are likely to have done that at least partly as vengeance for the temporal assault on the Tholian colony, which they would never have done if Na'kuhl's destruction hadn't turned so many of them into temporal terrorists), although of course it remains to/will never be seen if that is what this is.
Actually, there is several mentions of how the Na'kuhl star didn't turn into a black hole by the 29th century, which was considered an strange occurrence. Perhaps the star got restored or eventually restored itself between the 29th and 31st centuries.
Maybe the Tholians modified the Tox Uthat so the effects weren't permanent, just enough to teach the Na'kuhl a lesson.
Perhaps the Tholians weren't so keen on destroying the star. If it becomes a supernova or a black hole it's a navigational hazard. If they just turn down the temperature so it goes cold they wreck the Nak'hul without damaging the surrounding galaxy. But stellar fusion is powered by mass, so without the mass of the star going anywhere eventually once whatever effect the Tox Uthat causes wears off the star would reignite on its own. It's a Quantum Inhibitor right? Once the inhibition wears off fusion returns to normal. One would think. Or maybe two centuries of advancement was all that was needed to develop the technology to restore the star. After all 29th century tech should be obsolete to 31st century tech.
that would explain why they did all the thing with lukari star in the first place instead of just launching that starkiller torpedo into na'kuhl star in the first place....
Yes, but I'm sure justice will eventually catch up with Agent Daniels and his cabal-eventually, relativistically speaking, time travel does not, after all, make one immortal. Or were you referencing the Iconians, Tholians, Starfleet... because all of those mass-murdering terrorists got away with it, were, in fact, getting away with it in the first place, which caused the problem to begin with.
(no travel back to the distant past, Iconians die out instead of coming back looking for vengeance, also no reason for the Thox Uthat, so it doesn't get created and used on the Na'kuhl sun, which means the Na'khul don't go back in time and hit that colony convoy to **** the Tholians off...also no Noye looking to avenge a wife he never knew, and no sphere builders since the timeship never test-runs and bumps a race out of the timeline...)
Everything-the Iconian War, Undine war, Tholian conflict, HaKeev, Hobus, Gorn/Klingon War, war between the Klingon Empire and Federation-it all goes back to Starfleet meddling with time.
eliminate that? eliminate all the billions of deaths, deaths of civilizations, races and worlds.
But clearly, Starfleet has gotten away with it, along with their co-conspirators in the Daniels Agency.
you, sir are giving way too much credit to starfleet
firstly of all we do not know is all iconians would have die in said attack without our help - sure our presence there helped to safe more of them but it is not said that none would have made it without it.
also on additional note, iconians would not go on a reveange rampage if Sela who afaik has very little to do with a starfleet have not decided to interfere to starfleet operation and if iconians have left WITH their worlds heart in the first place - probably they would have just rebuild somewhere else with maybe more emphasis on the ways of defending themself - this is how they sounded during like - whole mission there - it was Sela's actions that made them going on rampage
I'm not sure what did you mean by "no reason to build thox uthat", but allow me remind to you that Noya was just as much at fault here as the starfleet, it was - after all - his gun that caused all of that and his people were running all those simulations that have show this specific option being "best"
the na'kuhl star affair is pretty much perfect example of predestination paradox and even if you take thox uthat out of equation it would end up the same - na'kuhl in reverge for loosing the star will try to destroy that colony fleet so tholians will wipe out federation on early days, and tholians in revenge for that fleet will take out the star - if you grab away thox uthat from that the only thing that will change are means they'll use to achieve this
So they take countless lives across time, cause massive hardship and destruction to innumerable innocent peoples, and start wars across time...and it's all okay in the end, because happy-fuzzy Trek feelings.
BS.
Know what I'd like to see at some point in STO (or all of Trek for that matter)? People being held accountable for their crimes.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
So they take countless lives across time, cause massive hardship and destruction to innumerable innocent peoples, and start wars across time...and it's all okay in the end, because happy-fuzzy Trek feelings.
BS.
Know what I'd like to see at some point in STO (or all of Trek for that matter)? People being held accountable for their crimes.
Except its made abundantly clear that 99% of the Na'Khul population AREN'T involved with Vosk and his terrorist organization.
It also shows the extent and futileness some things can go to, all because of a mistake, a misunderstanding or just plain stupidity.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
So they take countless lives across time, cause massive hardship and destruction to innumerable innocent peoples, and start wars across time...and it's all okay in the end, because happy-fuzzy Trek feelings.
BS.
Know what I'd like to see at some point in STO (or all of Trek for that matter)? People being held accountable for their crimes.
Except its made abundantly clear that 99% of the Na'Khul population AREN'T involved with Vosk and his terrorist organization.
So they take countless lives across time, cause massive hardship and destruction to innumerable innocent peoples, and start wars across time...and it's all okay in the end, because happy-fuzzy Trek feelings.
BS.
Know what I'd like to see at some point in STO (or all of Trek for that matter)? People being held accountable for their crimes.
Except its made abundantly clear that 99% of the Na'Khul population AREN'T involved with Vosk and his terrorist organization.
I have some of them as Doffs.
Heck, I have Na'kuhl and even Tholian Doffs and they get along relatively well. They bicker a lot, but still.
It also shows the extent and futileness some things can go to, all because of a mistake, a misunderstanding or just plain stupidity.
<shrug>
Its also a great lesson in the stupidity of revenge, as it is the Na'Khul going back in time and messing with the Tholians that got the Tholans to attack their sun in the first place.
Much like the Sela/Iconian predestination paradox, had either side simply taken the higher ground, all of it could have been avoided.
Quite so - though had the Sela/Iconian paradox been broken, I believe the outcome somehow manages to be scenario Alpha. (Remember - Alpha redirects an asteroid to Iconia, killing off the Iconians as effectively as if the Other never arrived, resulting in the Dominion conquering the Alpha and Beta quadrants. God knows what kind of other messes would result from the Tuterians not being assimilated, or the resulting breakage of the Na'kuhl/Tholian paradox...)
Similarly, had the Na'kuhl/Tholian paradox been broken, the outcome would be... peculiar, to say the least...
Enh the Tholians apparently caused whatever happened to the Lukari star.
Right, the Tholians used some 'standard' method of messing with the Lukari star to get their hands on the Tox Uhat because it could do the job on the Na'kuhl star type.
The Tholians are either remarkably good at planning or are the ones secretly funding the Temporal Liberation Front.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Enh the Tholians apparently caused whatever happened to the Lukari star.
Right, the Tholians used some 'standard' method of messing with the Lukari star to get their hands on the Tox Uhat because it could do the job on the Na'kuhl star type.
The Tholians are either remarkably good at planning or are the ones secretly funding the Temporal Liberation Front.
To be fair, Kal Dano had to come save his homeworld. He'd cease to exist if he hadn't, and then the Tholians would have no Tox Uthat to search for.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Enh the Tholians apparently caused whatever happened to the Lukari star.
Right, the Tholians used some 'standard' method of messing with the Lukari star to get their hands on the Tox Uhat because it could do the job on the Na'kuhl star type.
The Tholians are either remarkably good at planning or are the ones secretly funding the Temporal Liberation Front.
To be fair, Kal Dano had to come save his homeworld. He'd cease to exist if he hadn't, and then the Tholians would have no Tox Uthat to search for.
Oh, no, it was a well thought out lure - but every other time in the time travel story, the Tholians are the victims, seeking reprisal. Somehow, they knew to get their revenge, the best method was attacking a specific star, luring a time traveller from the future - so who told the Tholians about the Tox Uhat? Maybe Leeta? The Tholians have weird Mirror Universe ties.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
History, maybe? Doesn't explain why they'd know it's Lukari, but they could relatively easily have known from Starfleet records that Kal Dano made the Tox Uthat - the Vorgons knew, after all.
That being said, we don't know how much time travel the Tholians themselves are doing...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
So they take countless lives across time, cause massive hardship and destruction to innumerable innocent peoples, and start wars across time...and it's all okay in the end, because happy-fuzzy Trek feelings.
In this case, the Na'kuhl leader who started this all has already been taken down hard (by Archer in ENT: Storm Front). What you're left with are the footsoldiers who (as shown) can be reasoned with. So, really, this is about as fuzzy as the peace that the UK/ USA made with Germany in 1945. Punish the top leaders but give the troops a chance to move on.
So they take countless lives across time, cause massive hardship and destruction to innumerable innocent peoples, and start wars across time...and it's all okay in the end, because happy-fuzzy Trek feelings.
In this case, the Na'kuhl leader who started this all has already been taken down hard (by Archer in ENT: Storm Front). What you're left with are the footsoldiers who (as shown) can be reasoned with. So, really, this is about as fuzzy as the peace that the UK/ USA made with Germany in 1945. Punish the top leaders but give the troops a chance to move on.
Right. Vosk was eliminated by Archer in Storm Front, and we got the other Na'kuhl leader, Krog, during Temporal Reckoning. And once their fleet's command structure was destroyed at Procyon V, the remaining soldiers who were "just following orders" (as bad as that excuse may be) are offered a chance at peace.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Reading this story actually brought a tear to my eye. Maybe I've spent too many late nights playing STO, but I was really moved by this conclusion to the Na'Kuhl's storyarc.
So after the Na'Khul brutally murder a Tholian colony fleet, they get everything they ever wanted as a result?
How backwards.
Had the Allies weren't so heavy handed with the Germans after the First World War, a certain backwards political party and leader wouldn't have gotten the chance to rise to power and start the Second World War.
Federation response to what was seen when the player went to witness the Temporal Accords, thanks to the more extreme part of the faction, helped to repeat history.
Awesome. I wonder, did Na'kuhl reignite itself, or did the Galactic Union use the Tox Uthat to reignite it?
That's the most likely scenario. We got the Tox Uthat back after all.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Perhaps the Tholians weren't so keen on destroying the star. If it becomes a supernova or a black hole it's a navigational hazard.
Not really. The gravitational field doesn't change. You'll be fine as long as you stay away from the event horizon.
If they just turn down the temperature so it goes cold they wreck the Nak'hul without damaging the surrounding galaxy. But stellar fusion is powered by mass, so without the mass of the star going anywhere eventually once whatever effect the Tox Uthat causes wears off the star would reignite on its own. It's a Quantum Inhibitor right? Once the inhibition wears off fusion returns to normal. One would think.
The way I figure, since it's called a Quantum Inhibitor, it probably inhibits local quantum tunneling processes without which there is no way to get protons to form a helium nucleus. Obviously, this would stop stellar fusion.
So kudos to whoever came up with "Quantum Inhibitor". It actually makes scientific sense, although "Quantum Tunneling Inhibitor" would have been a bit more precise.
Comments
all the na'kuls were being re-conditioned at a temporal blacksite run by section 31 in the 31th century.
Somehow, I expect this to happen.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
I thought it was a timeline change--the USS Janeway was commanded by a Na'kuhl, so I interpreted it to mean a new timeline where their star had never been attacked and they had never declared the Federation to be their enemy in the first place.
Also, I noticed they didn't list the name of the author at the end like they usually do. Who wrote this one?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Fixed or messed up. To me it sounds like the Na'kuhl infiltrated and took over Starfleet. Now a bunch of mass-murdering terrorists get off scot-free.
Destroyed.:D
As likely as that vaporized people come back after you destroy your phaser.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
One Na'kuhl emerges from his conditioning booth and is handed a suitcase with a name on it. He opens the suitcase and examines the strange artifacts inside, he studies the identification tag and looks in the mirror... a multifaceted expression forms on his face - one of confusion, disappointment, dread, shock and abject horror as he stares forlornly at the image before him. He turns to his colleagues with a pained and desperate look on his face and asks rhetorically:
"Dwayne Dibbly!!!???"
Jolan'tru & cheers… RRF Captain Cybyl
Now where did I stash my Vegemite…
Shakespeare...
" H A M L E T "
(Act-4, Scene- 4)
{Captain}
"...Truly to speak, and with no addition,
We go to gain a little patch of ground
That hath in it no profit but the name.
To pay five ducats, five, I would not farm it..."
{To which Hamlet thinks to himself as an aside to the audience}
(translation from original old English...)
"Even two thousand men and twenty-thousand ducats are just the beginning of what it will cost to settle this pointless matter. This is what happens when countries have too much money and peace. This quarrel is like an abcess that grows inside someone until it bursts and kills them, and no one knows why..."
{He then responds to the Captain}
Thank you very much for the information, sir."
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
that would explain why they did all the thing with lukari star in the first place instead of just launching that starkiller torpedo into na'kuhl star in the first place....
you, sir are giving way too much credit to starfleet
firstly of all we do not know is all iconians would have die in said attack without our help - sure our presence there helped to safe more of them but it is not said that none would have made it without it.
also on additional note, iconians would not go on a reveange rampage if Sela who afaik has very little to do with a starfleet have not decided to interfere to starfleet operation and if iconians have left WITH their worlds heart in the first place - probably they would have just rebuild somewhere else with maybe more emphasis on the ways of defending themself - this is how they sounded during like - whole mission there - it was Sela's actions that made them going on rampage
I'm not sure what did you mean by "no reason to build thox uthat", but allow me remind to you that Noya was just as much at fault here as the starfleet, it was - after all - his gun that caused all of that and his people were running all those simulations that have show this specific option being "best"
the na'kuhl star affair is pretty much perfect example of predestination paradox and even if you take thox uthat out of equation it would end up the same - na'kuhl in reverge for loosing the star will try to destroy that colony fleet so tholians will wipe out federation on early days, and tholians in revenge for that fleet will take out the star - if you grab away thox uthat from that the only thing that will change are means they'll use to achieve this
BS.
Know what I'd like to see at some point in STO (or all of Trek for that matter)? People being held accountable for their crimes.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
It also shows the extent and futileness some things can go to, all because of a mistake, a misunderstanding or just plain stupidity.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Quite so - though had the Sela/Iconian paradox been broken, I believe the outcome somehow manages to be scenario Alpha. (Remember - Alpha redirects an asteroid to Iconia, killing off the Iconians as effectively as if the Other never arrived, resulting in the Dominion conquering the Alpha and Beta quadrants. God knows what kind of other messes would result from the Tuterians not being assimilated, or the resulting breakage of the Na'kuhl/Tholian paradox...)
Similarly, had the Na'kuhl/Tholian paradox been broken, the outcome would be... peculiar, to say the least...
In order to get to the Tox Uthat to do whatever they did do to Na'kuhl, whatever that is.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Right, the Tholians used some 'standard' method of messing with the Lukari star to get their hands on the Tox Uhat because it could do the job on the Na'kuhl star type.
The Tholians are either remarkably good at planning or are the ones secretly funding the Temporal Liberation Front.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
To be fair, Kal Dano had to come save his homeworld. He'd cease to exist if he hadn't, and then the Tholians would have no Tox Uthat to search for.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Oh, no, it was a well thought out lure - but every other time in the time travel story, the Tholians are the victims, seeking reprisal. Somehow, they knew to get their revenge, the best method was attacking a specific star, luring a time traveller from the future - so who told the Tholians about the Tox Uhat? Maybe Leeta? The Tholians have weird Mirror Universe ties.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
That being said, we don't know how much time travel the Tholians themselves are doing...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
In this case, the Na'kuhl leader who started this all has already been taken down hard (by Archer in ENT: Storm Front). What you're left with are the footsoldiers who (as shown) can be reasoned with. So, really, this is about as fuzzy as the peace that the UK/ USA made with Germany in 1945. Punish the top leaders but give the troops a chance to move on.
Right. Vosk was eliminated by Archer in Storm Front, and we got the other Na'kuhl leader, Krog, during Temporal Reckoning. And once their fleet's command structure was destroyed at Procyon V, the remaining soldiers who were "just following orders" (as bad as that excuse may be) are offered a chance at peace.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Kudos! A job well done!
Had the Allies weren't so heavy handed with the Germans after the First World War, a certain backwards political party and leader wouldn't have gotten the chance to rise to power and start the Second World War.
Federation response to what was seen when the player went to witness the Temporal Accords, thanks to the more extreme part of the faction, helped to repeat history.
Vengence does bite back hard.
That's the most likely scenario. We got the Tox Uthat back after all.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
So kudos to whoever came up with "Quantum Inhibitor". It actually makes scientific sense, although "Quantum Tunneling Inhibitor" would have been a bit more precise.