I thought it was great until I saw it in game. If you can pick the angle and light it well, it looks nice. Flying around it and seeing it in all its pancake-ness. Eugh. Esp now they've made it tiny.
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
And still better looking than the Excelsior or Galaxy.
QFT
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I thought it was great until I saw it in game. If you can pick the angle and light it well, it looks nice. Flying around it and seeing it in all its pancake-ness. Eugh. Esp now they've made it tiny.
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
cause sci fi fans have even worse sense of scale than sci fi writers?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
It is actually, "flatter on the outside".... I suspect it incorporates some iconia "floating attachments" tech in it, the nacelles look so distorted...
There were plenty of clues in the appearances it had and what Daniels could do. Plus it's so much more advanced than its predecessors, by hundreds of years. I consider its interior a bit nonlinear. This is a technology level that's mastered spacetime and causality. They fight beings that can terraform thousands of cubic lightyears of space, and they win.
Ask yourself where that window really is on a hull so flat. Or if you're looking in an objectively different direction than that window externally presents itself as being oriented.
That window appears to be in a much smaller section below the main saucer.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
They fight beings that can terraform thousands of cubic lightyears of space, and they win.
Yes, well...as per STO they win because us almighty player characters time travel to win it for them.
in ships that are likely outdated in their time... it seems kelvin logic works in reverse. they are later version of the feds, so even more peaceful and perfect. so narturally they can't fight well at all... also it seems we're khan now. should I switch my fed to the khan uniform?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
It is actually, "flatter on the outside".... I suspect it incorporates some iconia "floating attachments" tech in it, the nacelles look so distorted...
There were plenty of clues in the appearances it had and what Daniels could do. Plus it's so much more advanced than its predecessors, by hundreds of years. I consider its interior a bit nonlinear. This is a technology level that's mastered spacetime and causality. They fight beings that can terraform thousands of cubic lightyears of space, and they win.
Ask yourself where that window really is on a hull so flat. Or if you're looking in an objectively different direction than that window externally presents itself as being oriented.
That window appears to be in a much smaller section below the main saucer.
Correct. Archer and Daniels are in the area roughly circled.
The edge of the saucer can be seen above them. Though it's not a small area. That 'spine' under the saucer has more volume than a Galaxy Class.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I was looking up the Enterprise J and on Memory Alpha for Enterprise J it mentions that Doug Drexler who made the CGI model of the Enterprise J estimates it to be 2 miles long and theorizes that the hull is organically grown around a skeleton
I could definitely see organic methodologies - the smaller 26th century ships the future's sending us certainly have the ability to react to situations for their molecular beams.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
OK, just played one of the new temporal STF's and wondering why the Enterprise J is a pancake with nacelles?
Were the engineers drunk or summin? lol
Doug Drexler who designed the J as a throw away commentted on that a few days back on his facebook account in reference to the die cast model that is coming. He said something to the effect that he wanted it to looking like it swam in space and was grown not welded or bolted together.
I agree with TacoFangs...not on the Enterprise-J specifically (it doesn't bug me), but the ship I started out disliking immensely is now the model on my desk: the USS Kelvin from JJ Trek. I don't like single-nacelle designs (going all the way back to the Saladin class in the original Starfleet Technical Manual from the 1970s) but daggone it, the Kelvin is the one ship I want in the game now.
As for the Galaxy class--seriously, people, pancakes, not muffin tops, already!
I love that ship, but on close inspection, the textures with the registry and name are a little streched.. and the edges of the saucer are on the thin side, but i gess its not a very highly detailed ship for this mission. Anyway, i like it.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
I'm not a fan of the Ent J but taco nailed it when he brought up the ridiculous schedules Drexler and Ent's art department had thrown at them. I thought the J looked like the future from a 90's FPS but it's largely the low quality of the rushed models. The same pushes resulted in D7s appearing on Enterprise because they wouldn't give the art department time to develop.
@triptuckervii
Yeah, I love the NX refit too. Check out the T5 Ranger; It's a dead ringer and looks beautiful.
I thought it was great until I saw it in game. If you can pick the angle and light it well, it looks nice. Flying around it and seeing it in all its pancake-ness. Eugh. Esp now they've made it tiny.
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
so it was meant to be smaller tha tarantula? O.o
tbh from all the chatter on forums I though this thing will be huge.....
I thought it was great until I saw it in game. If you can pick the angle and light it well, it looks nice. Flying around it and seeing it in all its pancake-ness. Eugh. Esp now they've made it tiny.
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
so it was meant to be smaller tha tarantula? O.o
tbh from all the chatter on forums I though this thing will be huge.....
this one looks... normal [in size that is]
Since the Tarantula is a Cryptic design, I doubt Doug had its in mind when designing the ship.
But he knew how big Borg Cubes could be, or the Voth ships, so I think he probably was mostly thinking about how much larger it would be compared to the previous Enterprises.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
I thought it was great until I saw it in game. If you can pick the angle and light it well, it looks nice. Flying around it and seeing it in all its pancake-ness. Eugh. Esp now they've made it tiny.
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
so it was meant to be smaller tha tarantula? O.o
tbh from all the chatter on forums I though this thing will be huge.....
this one looks... normal [in size that is]
in memory alpha for the enterprise J under the design section for it, Doug Drexler says that the Enterprise J is estimated to be 2 miles long
I think the closest to the Enterprise J type of ship that we the players can have own and use would be the T6 Temporal Battlecruiser Paladin Class from the Agents of Yesterday pack and that can also get from the cash shop
I didn't like the J design initially but now it's one of my favourite Star Trek ship designs. It also look pretty awesome in game and I tend to spend time just looking at it after the STF just because.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Doug's design is actually quite well thought out, and very well designed. But keep in mind, the original was made in a couple of hours, because the producers demanded it on short notice.
The Enterprise C actually suffered from similar circumstances, production-wise (budget and time). BUT.
Enterprise C was essential to the plot of the episode it was featured in. Enterprise C was not just on a display while Picard and Castillo stood there talking about something unrelated to what's in plain view.
Enterprise J was not essential to the plot and not even an actual plot-device. It was just a famous name they threw into that one episode for the audience to care. Daniels and Archer could have been standing on a balcony in Venice and watching a battle on a computer for that matter. The difference would have been that Daniels could not have said "look man we're Standing on the mother****ing Enterprise J now and we couldn't if you die".
It's not an offense to STO using the design - I'm fine with that. I'm just pointing out how sloppy and lazy the entire idea of squeezing an Enterprise J into a declining show was.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. The Enterprise J is sufficiently advanced.
It still looks implausible.
I think that's the key feature of the ship. It makes no sense to us.
Though, realistically... The flimsy Pylons were in Star Trek since TOS. We just got used to them being this flimsy.
The more I see the Enterprise J,the more I like the idea of "Bluetooth" connected Warp Nacelles that have no pylon at.
But so far, only the Iconians seem to make such ships.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
cause sci fi fans have even worse sense of scale than sci fi writers?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
That window appears to be in a much smaller section below the main saucer.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Yes, well...as per STO they win because us almighty player characters time travel to win it for them.
in ships that are likely outdated in their time... it seems kelvin logic works in reverse. they are later version of the feds, so even more peaceful and perfect. so narturally they can't fight well at all... also it seems we're khan now. should I switch my fed to the khan uniform?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Correct. Archer and Daniels are in the area roughly circled.
The edge of the saucer can be seen above them. Though it's not a small area. That 'spine' under the saucer has more volume than a Galaxy Class.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
As for the Galaxy class--seriously, people, pancakes, not muffin tops, already!
You can't buy the Ent-J.. It is only in a Mission and a Queue.
You're confusing it with one of the other 26th century ships.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
@triptuckervii
Yeah, I love the NX refit too. Check out the T5 Ranger; It's a dead ringer and looks beautiful.
so it was meant to be smaller tha tarantula? O.o
tbh from all the chatter on forums I though this thing will be huge.....
this one looks... normal [in size that is]
Since the Tarantula is a Cryptic design, I doubt Doug had its in mind when designing the ship.
But he knew how big Borg Cubes could be, or the Voth ships, so I think he probably was mostly thinking about how much larger it would be compared to the previous Enterprises.
in memory alpha for the enterprise J under the design section for it, Doug Drexler says that the Enterprise J is estimated to be 2 miles long
There, I fixed that for ya.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
The Enterprise C actually suffered from similar circumstances, production-wise (budget and time). BUT.
Enterprise C was essential to the plot of the episode it was featured in. Enterprise C was not just on a display while Picard and Castillo stood there talking about something unrelated to what's in plain view.
Enterprise J was not essential to the plot and not even an actual plot-device. It was just a famous name they threw into that one episode for the audience to care. Daniels and Archer could have been standing on a balcony in Venice and watching a battle on a computer for that matter. The difference would have been that Daniels could not have said "look man we're Standing on the mother****ing Enterprise J now and we couldn't if you die".
It's not an offense to STO using the design - I'm fine with that. I'm just pointing out how sloppy and lazy the entire idea of squeezing an Enterprise J into a declining show was.
For an overall retrospective, here you go:
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
It still looks implausible.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. The Enterprise J is sufficiently advanced.
I think that's the key feature of the ship. It makes no sense to us.
Though, realistically... The flimsy Pylons were in Star Trek since TOS. We just got used to them being this flimsy.
The more I see the Enterprise J,the more I like the idea of "Bluetooth" connected Warp Nacelles that have no pylon at.
But so far, only the Iconians seem to make such ships.