GeorgeTakei dose not give this his blessing, he said it wasn't part of Gene Roddenberrys vision so it shouldn't have happened.
Then we have to throw out the entirety of DS9, as Roddenberry also outlawed interpersonal conflicts among Starfleet personnel. And nobody from Starfleet ever goes rogue, either - if it looks like someone has, they're really operating on secret orders and all will be well by the end of the episode.
Uhh.....What? Nobody ever goes rogue? That happened multiple times in TOS and they weren't operating on 'secret orders' and every series including TOS had interpersonal conflicts to some degree or another
No rogues in TOS - worst they had was when Kirk had secret orders ("The Enterprise Incident") and when someone with no command experience pulled rank to steal the center seat while Kirk was incapacitated ("The Deadly Years").
And the "no interpersonal conflicts" thing was one of the more infamous directives Roddenberry issued in TNG, leaving writers tearing their hair out trying to come up with dramatic stories that didn't have any conflict. In the last couple of seasons, as Roddenberry had gone to the Great Bird, they were able to relax that rule a tiny trifle, but even then it was only in DS9 that they were able to have that happen.
(Apparently, Roddenberry actually wanted the Ent-D to function without a captain as such; instead, there would be a "leadership council" for the ship, and the bridge was supposed to look more like a fern bar. The three "couches" on the bridge, for the captain, first officer, and ship's counselor (!), and Picard's tendency to call committee meetings before any major decision, were the remaining influences of that.)
John Gill... Fleet Captain Garth... Commodore Matt Decker... I'm sure there was also an episode where a rogue Starfleet captain tried to tell a bunch of primitives that Spock was the devil, because his heart wasn't in his chest (might not have been a captain, but it's sticking in my mind for some reason...)
John Gill wasn't Starfleet, he was a history teacher (not everyone who teaches at a military academy is an officer). Garth didn't go "rogue"; he went insane, as a result of the body-sculpting techniques taught him by aliens. That's why he was in the asylum. Matt Decker didn't go rogue - he was trying to eliminate the Doomsday Machine, and was crazed with grief because he'd put the rest of his crew ashore for safety, only to watch the Machine eat the planet he'd left them on. He wanted to kill the Machine, and was willing to die to achieve his goal.
The closest to "rogue" we have was Capt. Ronald Tracy, CO of the Exeter, who was just trying to survive (the Omega IV virus would only kill those who contracted it if they ever left the planet's atmosphere). He traded technology to the Kohms in order to buy a place in their society, as his other choice was immediate execution, and Gene Coon hadn't yet come up with the idea that a captain would rather die than violate the Prime Directive. (Also, that was IMO the very worst episode of TOS, even more poorly written than "And the Children Shall Lead" or "Spock's Brain", so...)
GeorgeTakei dose not give this his blessing, he said it wasn't part of Gene Roddenberrys vision so it shouldn't have happened.
Then we have to throw out the entirety of DS9, as Roddenberry also outlawed interpersonal conflicts among Starfleet personnel. And nobody from Starfleet ever goes rogue, either - if it looks like someone has, they're really operating on secret orders and all will be well by the end of the episode.
Uhh.....What? Nobody ever goes rogue? That happened multiple times in TOS and they weren't operating on 'secret orders' and every series including TOS had interpersonal conflicts to some degree or another
No rogues in TOS - worst they had was when Kirk had secret orders ("The Enterprise Incident") and when someone with no command experience pulled rank to steal the center seat while Kirk was incapacitated ("The Deadly Years").
And the "no interpersonal conflicts" thing was one of the more infamous directives Roddenberry issued in TNG, leaving writers tearing their hair out trying to come up with dramatic stories that didn't have any conflict. In the last couple of seasons, as Roddenberry had gone to the Great Bird, they were able to relax that rule a tiny trifle, but even then it was only in DS9 that they were able to have that happen.
(Apparently, Roddenberry actually wanted the Ent-D to function without a captain as such; instead, there would be a "leadership council" for the ship, and the bridge was supposed to look more like a fern bar. The three "couches" on the bridge, for the captain, first officer, and ship's counselor (!), and Picard's tendency to call committee meetings before any major decision, were the remaining influences of that.)
John Gill... Fleet Captain Garth... Commodore Matt Decker... I'm sure there was also an episode where a rogue Starfleet captain tried to tell a bunch of primitives that Spock was the devil, because his heart wasn't in his chest (might not have been a captain, but it's sticking in my mind for some reason...)
John Gill wasn't Starfleet, he was a history teacher (not everyone who teaches at a military academy is an officer).
That's very true, but he was still a Federation official, presumeably bound by codes of conduct or permitted levels of interraction... He conceivably overstapped those bounds, thus 'going rogue'...
Garth didn't go "rogue"; he went insane, as a result of the body-sculpting techniques taught him by aliens. That's why he was in the asylum.
Also true, but he is still an example of a Federation citizen 'falling from grace' (I actually feel more sympathy for Garth, because indeed, he was driven insane by the shapeshifting and presumeably, the effect that had on his neural pathways...)
Matt Decker didn't go rogue - he was trying to eliminate the Doomsday Machine, and was crazed with grief because he'd put the rest of his crew ashore for safety, only to watch the Machine eat the planet he'd left them on. He wanted to kill the Machine, and was willing to die to achieve his goal.
Yes, but he still commandered the Enterprise to do so... The ends, as they say, didn't justify the means...
The closest to "rogue" we have was Capt. Ronald Tracy, CO of the Exeter, who was just trying to survive (the Omega IV virus would only kill those who contracted it if they ever left the planet's atmosphere). He traded technology to the Kohms in order to buy a place in their society, as his other choice was immediate execution, and Gene Coon hadn't yet come up with the idea that a captain would rather die than violate the Prime Directive. (Also, that was IMO the very worst episode of TOS, even more poorly written than "And the Children Shall Lead" or "Spock's Brain", so...)
Ahh, yes, that's the captain I was thinking of, thank you Even if Gene Coon hadn't come up with that idea, Kirk was still pretty apalled by Tracy's actions, so a sign the he was operating 'outside the reasonable bounds...
Gill didn't "go rogue", because he wasn't constrained by the same regulations as Starfleet officers. He was a civilian, with a civilian's casual contempt for rules he didn't like (not so different from Nikolai Roshenko, really).
And nobody said no one from the Federation ever "fell from grace" - Agricultural Undersecretary Baris was certainly no shining light - but it's quite clear that this isn't the same thing as going rogue. Garth of Izar didn't make a decision to abandon the ideals he once held dear, he went insane. That's not a betrayal, save possibly a metaphorical betrayal of his own mind.
And Decker wasn't "rogue", he was trying to save the Federation from a seemingly-unstoppable threat. Remember that in those days, Starfleet Command could be days away even by subspace comms - if they'd wasted the time to go seek help, the Doomsday Machine could have eaten four or five more inhabited systems before they could get back. What he wanted to do was in keeping with Starfleet's highest ideals, which is to say sacrificing themselves to save innocent lives.
(On the other hand, I'm not going to defend "The Omega Glory". That episode sucked, and I've removed it from my headcanon.)
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Gill didn't "go rogue", because he wasn't constrained by the same regulations as Starfleet officers. He was a civilian, with a civilian's casual contempt for rules he didn't like (not so different from Nikolai Roshenko, really).
He might not have been bound by Starfleet regulations, but, as I said, he would still have codes of conduct to adhere to, and I doubt bringing the wonders of national socialism to an alien world, is allowed in those guidelines And additionally, Nikolai Rozhenko was actually the complete reverse of John Gill: Nikolai sought to maintain the Boraalans and their way of life, John Gill introduced an external construct which changed the structure and nature of Ekosian society... Admitedly, Gill thought he was helping, but he still repented his actions and (according to Memory Alpha) said he was wrong to break the Prime Directive...
And nobody said no one from the Federation ever "fell from grace" - Agricultural Undersecretary Baris was certainly no shining light - but it's quite clear that this isn't the same thing as going rogue. Garth of Izar didn't make a decision to abandon the ideals he once held dear, he went insane. That's not a betrayal, save possibly a metaphorical betrayal of his own mind.
I guess it depends on one's definition of 'going rogue'... Personally speaking, I don't think it applies solely to military officers, but can also be applied to instances such as the Gill Incident, where 'someone of the era' goes against the contemporary doctrine... So all I'm saying, is that there were people in the TOS era who didn't necessarily 'play by the book' And that's a fair point about Garth of Izar, his acts were those of mental illness rather than conscious malice. But. When the mentally ill commit crimes, they are still considered crimes, and they are imprisoned (albeit in a hospital, rather than a prison...)
And Decker wasn't "rogue", he was trying to save the Federation from a seemingly-unstoppable threat. Remember that in those days, Starfleet Command could be days away even by subspace comms - if they'd wasted the time to go seek help, the Doomsday Machine could have eaten four or five more inhabited systems before they could get back. What he wanted to do was in keeping with Starfleet's highest ideals, which is to say sacrificing themselves to save innocent lives.
(On the other hand, I'm not going to defend "The Omega Glory". That episode sucked, and I've removed it from my headcanon.)
Yes, but the way in which he went about it (commandeering the Enterprise) was unquestionably going outside the chain of command on what was essentially a self-assigned mission... I agree with your point that Starfleet Command could be days away, but, he could have worked with Kirk, not what he did...
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
Just to play Devil's Advocate (and I'm no fan of Final Frontier) I'd have to say that I think the story behind FF is better than the story in the JJ movies, but I would say, that I don't enjoy FF at all either, and it has issues with plot, characterization, Plot Armor etc which also exist in the JJ movies (and most Trek iterations)
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
Just to play Devil's Advocate (and I'm no fan of Final Frontier) I'd have to say that I think the story behind FF is better than the story in the JJ movies, but I would say, that I don't enjoy FF at all either, and it has issues with plot, characterization, Plot Armor etc which also exist in the JJ movies (and most Trek iterations)
A rehashed 'finding a false god' plot from TOS was better than a rehashed 'insane villain wants revenge' plot from almost every ST film?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
Just to play Devil's Advocate (and I'm no fan of Final Frontier) I'd have to say that I think the story behind FF is better than the story in the JJ movies, but I would say, that I don't enjoy FF at all either, and it has issues with plot, characterization, Plot Armor etc which also exist in the JJ movies (and most Trek iterations)
A rehashed 'finding a false god' plot from TOS was better than a rehashed 'insane villain wants revenge' plot from almost every ST film?
IMHO, yes...
I thought the revelation that Sybok wasn't crazy, and had been manipulated by the Entity, was the redemption of the plot...
(To be honest, I was actually thinking of Undiscovered Country and got confuzzled... It's been one of those days )
Sybok not being crazy was fine. It was the fact that he could control the minds of others, including the heroes manning the Enterprise, by getting him to tell him their problems that stuck in my craw. (By that reasoning, Deanna Troi should have owned the Ent-D.)
Sybok not being crazy was fine. It was the fact that he could control the minds of others, including the heroes manning the Enterprise, by getting him to tell him their problems that stuck in my craw. (By that reasoning, Deanna Troi should have owned the Ent-D.)
I always took it that they were so grateful to have unburdened themselves (possibly through a way which prevented the emotions re-emerging) that they simply chose to follow him in gratitude, rather than outright mind-control... But I admit, it was a pretty weak notion
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
Just to play Devil's Advocate (and I'm no fan of Final Frontier) I'd have to say that I think the story behind FF is better than the story in the JJ movies, but I would say, that I don't enjoy FF at all either, and it has issues with plot, characterization, Plot Armor etc which also exist in the JJ movies (and most Trek iterations)
A rehashed 'finding a false god' plot from TOS was better than a rehashed 'insane villain wants revenge' plot from almost every ST film?
IMHO, yes...
I thought the revelation that Sybok wasn't crazy, and had been manipulated by the Entity, was the redemption of the plot...
(To be honest, I was actually thinking of Undiscovered Country and got confuzzled... It's been one of those days )
You'd be correct about TUC. It's the best of all the ST films by a lightyear.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
Just to play Devil's Advocate (and I'm no fan of Final Frontier) I'd have to say that I think the story behind FF is better than the story in the JJ movies, but I would say, that I don't enjoy FF at all either, and it has issues with plot, characterization, Plot Armor etc which also exist in the JJ movies (and most Trek iterations)
A rehashed 'finding a false god' plot from TOS was better than a rehashed 'insane villain wants revenge' plot from almost every ST film?
IMHO, yes...
I thought the revelation that Sybok wasn't crazy, and had been manipulated by the Entity, was the redemption of the plot...
(To be honest, I was actually thinking of Undiscovered Country and got confuzzled... It's been one of those days )
You'd be correct about TUC. It's the best of all the ST films by a lightyear.
TUC was awesome, ranks number 3 for me behind FC and TWOK.
Chekhov: "If the shoe fits, wear it!"
Spock: "Uh, Mr Chekhov ..." *points down at large, bizarrely shaped feet*
And poor writing is synonymous with anything JJ Trek.
And with A LOT of Star Trek in general over the last 50 years (JJ Trek is no better or worse than the Star Trek that came before it.)
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure. FYI that's my top 5 worst trek movie list, from bad to horrendous.
All better than JJtrek in my book.
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
Just to play Devil's Advocate (and I'm no fan of Final Frontier) I'd have to say that I think the story behind FF is better than the story in the JJ movies, but I would say, that I don't enjoy FF at all either, and it has issues with plot, characterization, Plot Armor etc which also exist in the JJ movies (and most Trek iterations)
A rehashed 'finding a false god' plot from TOS was better than a rehashed 'insane villain wants revenge' plot from almost every ST film?
IMHO, yes...
I thought the revelation that Sybok wasn't crazy, and had been manipulated by the Entity, was the redemption of the plot...
(To be honest, I was actually thinking of Undiscovered Country and got confuzzled... It's been one of those days )
You'd be correct about TUC. It's the best of all the ST films by a lightyear.
TUC was awesome, ranks number 3 for me behind FC and TWOK.
Chekhov: "If the shoe fits, wear it!"
Spock: "Uh, Mr Chekhov ..." *points down at large, bizarrely shaped feet*
I agree, TUC had some excellent plot points, but it also had a few which I felt were plot convenience rather than anything else, but overall, I would say that TUC is better than the JJ movies, but I'd also still say that I thought FF was better than the JJ movies too
JJ trek is a HELL of a lot better than Generations, Search for Spock, Nemesis, TMP, and Final Frontier, that's for sure....
I don't see how you can say this with a straight face.
I can say that with a straight face because all five of those movies are terrible and have little or no redeeming qualities. JJ trek on the other hand is quite enjoyable
"Surely by the 24th century, they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness?"
And Gene Roddenberry said "No, by the 24th century, no one will care"
In Star trek what Gene said, applying to all the things like sexual orientation, ethnic, faith,baldness and other materialistic things...
Emancipation , people !
dont become a closet bigots lol
I've always found Mr Sulu kind of sweet, so the first thing I thought when I saw this subject line was "aww, do they kiss?". Not a big deal, honestly. Little bit gratuitous, maybe, but you could call it realism; given what we have in the present day, you'd logically expect there to be some g a y people among a 23rd-century crew, but they couldn't say so in the 60s, so they're saying so now. As far as I know, TOS never exactly showed that Sulu was straight anyway, so this is pretty tame for a canon-contradiction.
I can say that with a straight face because all five of those movies are terrible and have little or no redeeming qualities. JJ trek on the other hand is quite enjoyable
Ok. Now I know you're joking.
Nope, not at all.
Generations: glorified TNG episode, and a poorly written one at that.
Search for Spock: only thing it accomplished in its rather short runtime was undo some of the more interesting developments of TWOK, such as David (who died), the Genesis planet (which destroyed itself), and Spock's obvious resurrection (which was handled rather sloppily IMHO). For these and many other reasons I just don't like anything about this movie, with the one exception being Kirk tricking the Klinks into boarding a self destructing ship ... but one scene doesn't make a movie good, or even average.
Nemesis: stupid plot with an idiotic villain. I want some of whatever the writers were smoking when they came up with this garbage. Only good thing was the final battle.
TMP: the few times I've tried to watch this, I got the best naps I've ever had. This movie makes LotR: Fellowship of the Ring (the novel) seem like Fast and the Furious in comparison.
Final Frontier: I like to pretend this movie doesn't exist, we'd all be better off if that were the case.
JJ-Trek, on the other hand, was very well done IMHO. I'd rank the movies overall:
1) First Contact
2) TWOK
3) Undiscovered Country
4) Insurrection
5) Trek '09
6) ID
7) Voyage Home
Meanwhile, I'd leave Insurrection off that list altogether, and move TWoK to the top. De gustibus non disputandem est.
Most of the time I consider TWOK and FC a tie, but in the end FC has my favorite alien race of all time, and is a sequel to my favorite episode of all time (and the episode that turned me from casual fan to Trekkie), so FC wins for me.
Insurrection I never quite understood the hate, I found it rather enjoyable, my only real complaint being Picard trying to play super hero at the end, but in this instance I attribute it to the de-aging effect everyone was experiencing. I was a bit disappointed the first time I saw it though cause I was young and didn't realize the footage in one of the trailers from FC's battle of Sector 001 was just stock footage and wasn't going to be part of the movie.
... As far as I know, TOS never exactly showed that Sulu was straight anyway, so this is pretty tame for a canon-contradiction.
Mirror Sulu seemed rather taken by Uhura.
And mirror Ezri, Leeta, and Kira all showed an interest in other women in ways their Prime counterparts didn't.
Other than Chekhov's age, the KT and PU characters aren't any different biologically. As for the Mirror Universe versions? The gods alone know. That universe deliberately has no logic or continuity.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think my favorite bit is Quinto, the only actually TRIBBLE cast member, who is in a straight relationship in the franchise because obviously Spock being TRIBBLE would have been a bridge too far, having the cojones to complain that Takei should be happy that they're ham-handedly writing in a TRIBBLE relationship for one of the straight actors for pandering purposes.
I think my favorite bit is Quinto, the only actually **** cast member, who is in a straight relationship in the franchise because obviously Spock being **** would have been a bridge too far, having the cojones to complain that Takei should be happy that they're ham-handedly writing in a **** relationship for one of the straight actors for pandering purposes.
G.a.y Spock would be difficult, as I believe Vulcans use sex only for procreation, and also I believe it was implied that reborn Spock slept with that female Vulcan in Search for Spock while he was going through puberty.
I think my favorite bit is Quinto, the only actually **** cast member, who is in a straight relationship in the franchise because obviously Spock being **** would have been a bridge too far, having the cojones to complain that Takei should be happy that they're ham-handedly writing in a **** relationship for one of the straight actors for pandering purposes.
You've seen the film or read the script! Really? Tell us all exactly how 'ham-handed' it was, please do.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
"Straight" relationship? Spock isn't even the same species as Nyota! They come from different evolutionary paths! It would be less strange, from a genetic standpoint, for him to desire a sehlat!
Comments
The closest to "rogue" we have was Capt. Ronald Tracy, CO of the Exeter, who was just trying to survive (the Omega IV virus would only kill those who contracted it if they ever left the planet's atmosphere). He traded technology to the Kohms in order to buy a place in their society, as his other choice was immediate execution, and Gene Coon hadn't yet come up with the idea that a captain would rather die than violate the Prime Directive. (Also, that was IMO the very worst episode of TOS, even more poorly written than "And the Children Shall Lead" or "Spock's Brain", so...)
Also true, but he is still an example of a Federation citizen 'falling from grace' (I actually feel more sympathy for Garth, because indeed, he was driven insane by the shapeshifting and presumeably, the effect that had on his neural pathways...)
Yes, but he still commandered the Enterprise to do so... The ends, as they say, didn't justify the means...
Ahh, yes, that's the captain I was thinking of, thank you
And nobody said no one from the Federation ever "fell from grace" - Agricultural Undersecretary Baris was certainly no shining light - but it's quite clear that this isn't the same thing as going rogue. Garth of Izar didn't make a decision to abandon the ideals he once held dear, he went insane. That's not a betrayal, save possibly a metaphorical betrayal of his own mind.
And Decker wasn't "rogue", he was trying to save the Federation from a seemingly-unstoppable threat. Remember that in those days, Starfleet Command could be days away even by subspace comms - if they'd wasted the time to go seek help, the Doomsday Machine could have eaten four or five more inhabited systems before they could get back. What he wanted to do was in keeping with Starfleet's highest ideals, which is to say sacrificing themselves to save innocent lives.
(On the other hand, I'm not going to defend "The Omega Glory". That episode sucked, and I've removed it from my headcanon.)
All better than JJtrek in my book.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I guess it depends on one's definition of 'going rogue'... Personally speaking, I don't think it applies solely to military officers, but can also be applied to instances such as the Gill Incident, where 'someone of the era' goes against the contemporary doctrine... So all I'm saying, is that there were people in the TOS era who didn't necessarily 'play by the book'
Yes, but the way in which he went about it (commandeering the Enterprise) was unquestionably going outside the chain of command on what was essentially a self-assigned mission... I agree with your point that Starfleet Command could be days away, but, he could have worked with Kirk, not what he did...
... I don't see how anyone could possibly consider Final Frontier as being better than the JJ movies. Sounds like you hate JJ-trek for no other reason than it being different.
A rehashed 'finding a false god' plot from TOS was better than a rehashed 'insane villain wants revenge' plot from almost every ST film?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I thought the revelation that Sybok wasn't crazy, and had been manipulated by the Entity, was the redemption of the plot...
(To be honest, I was actually thinking of Undiscovered Country and got confuzzled... It's been one of those days
You'd be correct about TUC. It's the best of all the ST films by a lightyear.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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TUC was awesome, ranks number 3 for me behind FC and TWOK.
Chekhov: "If the shoe fits, wear it!"
Spock: "Uh, Mr Chekhov ..." *points down at large, bizarrely shaped feet*
I can say that with a straight face because all five of those movies are terrible and have little or no redeeming qualities. JJ trek on the other hand is quite enjoyable
"Surely by the 24th century, they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness?"
And Gene Roddenberry said "No, by the 24th century, no one will care"
In Star trek what Gene said, applying to all the things like sexual orientation, ethnic, faith,baldness and other materialistic things...
Emancipation , people !
dont become a closet bigots lol
Still plenty of groups they can shamelessly pander to in lieu of good writing and storytelling!
edit: drat this filter.
Nope, not at all.
Generations: glorified TNG episode, and a poorly written one at that.
Search for Spock: only thing it accomplished in its rather short runtime was undo some of the more interesting developments of TWOK, such as David (who died), the Genesis planet (which destroyed itself), and Spock's obvious resurrection (which was handled rather sloppily IMHO). For these and many other reasons I just don't like anything about this movie, with the one exception being Kirk tricking the Klinks into boarding a self destructing ship ... but one scene doesn't make a movie good, or even average.
Nemesis: stupid plot with an idiotic villain. I want some of whatever the writers were smoking when they came up with this garbage. Only good thing was the final battle.
TMP: the few times I've tried to watch this, I got the best naps I've ever had. This movie makes LotR: Fellowship of the Ring (the novel) seem like Fast and the Furious in comparison.
Final Frontier: I like to pretend this movie doesn't exist, we'd all be better off if that were the case.
JJ-Trek, on the other hand, was very well done IMHO. I'd rank the movies overall:
1) First Contact
2) TWOK
3) Undiscovered Country
4) Insurrection
5) Trek '09
6) ID
7) Voyage Home
The rest I've already ranked.
Most of the time I consider TWOK and FC a tie, but in the end FC has my favorite alien race of all time, and is a sequel to my favorite episode of all time (and the episode that turned me from casual fan to Trekkie), so FC wins for me.
Insurrection I never quite understood the hate, I found it rather enjoyable, my only real complaint being Picard trying to play super hero at the end, but in this instance I attribute it to the de-aging effect everyone was experiencing. I was a bit disappointed the first time I saw it though cause I was young and didn't realize the footage in one of the trailers from FC's battle of Sector 001 was just stock footage and wasn't going to be part of the movie.
And mirror Ezri, Leeta, and Kira all showed an interest in other women in ways their Prime counterparts didn't.
Other than Chekhov's age, the KT and PU characters aren't any different biologically. As for the Mirror Universe versions? The gods alone know. That universe deliberately has no logic or continuity.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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G.a.y Spock would be difficult, as I believe Vulcans use sex only for procreation, and also I believe it was implied that reborn Spock slept with that female Vulcan in Search for Spock while he was going through puberty.
You've seen the film or read the script! Really? Tell us all exactly how 'ham-handed' it was, please do.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!