Possibly. The big prohibition that tends to be mentioned is showing their symbols. Films and TV shows can be excepted from that if the presence of the symbols is historically accurate, though as noted computer games can not.
The reason why movies/TV can show NS symbols and games can't is rather simple. Movies/TV are considered art by German law and therefore fall under the freedom of arts law which allows the use the symbols under certain conditions. Games are not considered art and therefore cannot show the symbols. Did i mention that our lawmakers are TRIBBLE dinosaurs?
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I didn't word it well but I meant that... by what little information we have Khan Singh was way way worse than Hitler & Co. [...]
Not according to the TOS episode that introduced him. There, only Spock was sure about him being a bad guy. According to the historians of the TOS era (and Kirk and the other humans of the crew), he was much more grey-shaded.
Augments in Star Trek have always been weird. The Federation has decided to ban their EXISTENCE. Why? This seems to have is roots in something Khan did, but we have no idea what/how. ENT hinted that the Feds may have decided that the process inevitably makes you insane, but that was shown to be untrue in ENT. Also... it's even MORE grey because the Feds actually do make regular use of certain forms of genetic engineering. Barclay's Protomorphosis syndrome was caused by Crusher attempting to re-write Barclay's DNA to make him immune to the disease he was suffering from. Obviously that went horribly wrong, but the general reaction to it was akin to "oops, my bad" and "try to do it right next time". Which in turn raises the question of what actually IS banned and what isn't.
Earth baned augments because they started the eugenitics war anf karn conqured 1 / 4 of the planet. Dident it mention in space seed karn dident comit geniside he manlipuated others into doing it
I think it might have something to do with the chance that one could go overboard with genetic augmentation and create so-called "designer babies" - IIRC that's pretty much the reason why we in the present day are so reluctant to do it.
.. or at least that was the common interpretation of the time, and the Terrans stuck with it in their laws.
Yeah, there's this line that gets tossed around rather casually "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." But it's never been true. What is true is that the illusion that you can do whatever you want will cause you to act that way.
I don't see any reason to believe that it was their inherent nature that made so many Augments evil. It's that most were raised to be tyrants and tyrant wannabes.
.. or at least that was the common interpretation of the time, and the Terrans stuck with it in their laws.
Yeah, there's this line that gets tossed around rather casually "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." But it's never been true. What is true is that the illusion that you can do whatever you want will cause you to act that way.
I don't see any reason to believe that it was their inherent nature that made so many Augments evil. It's that most were raised to be tyrants and tyrant wannabes.
Part and parcel of that statement isn't that "every single being that ever gets their hands on 'ultimate power' is going to wind up corrupted", it's that the mere existence of said ultimate power will "eventually" lead to someone being corrupted and the situation tanks.
So, yeah, the first, maybe even second, batch of Augments may have been trained / morality imprinted / whatever to be paragons of virtue, just as their designers intended. Then King Bonehead manages to somehow put himself together an Augment, enough to break into an "Augment Lab" to boost himself and a few dozen "loyalists" to power without all the "good guy" imprinting and bingo...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what they're breed for. The social implications of the technology are staggering, and the kind of people who'd pursue creating a "better humanity" through genetics have historically been among the worse of our species.
If genetic modification does come along, it will probably happen Denobulan style. Oh, poor Denobulans, responsible genetics caught by human instigated red-tape in the Federation just because if you give a human an upper hand in the world, they'll turn into a genocidal maniac.
It would be cool to see more of this though - human augments would be an interesting new enemy faction provided they make it different enough from the Terrans. That aisde, and speaking of genocide, the new TOS faction is in dire need of a planet of the hats episode.
As Bashir's story shows in DS9, there are good reasons why the Federation banned the technology. There's a whole episode (ripped from Isaac Asimov), that toyed with Bashir and other Augments being convinced they couldn't be wrong. The only way anyone could disagree was to be too stupid to understand! Like in reality, the road to hell is often paved in good intentions, not maniacal cartoon villainy.
Khan as a character makes good scifi, but bad social commentary. The DS9 episodes tackling the subject I think were much better at broaching the dangers of such technology, and the resulting problems that such a ban might have. Star Trek presents a consistently rational reason for why in universe augmentation is illegal ("For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings").
Star Trek's portrayal of such technology and its consequences playing out in reality as in the shows is highly unlikely, but that's fiction for you!
So... I wonder about the TOS mirror episode and Germany given that salute the Terrans do...
The general fan theory is that in the Mirror Universe the Axis powers won WWII.
Another is that in the MU, the Axis powers were the good guys (and lost).
Another is that the MU was born as an alternate timeline due to the events of Stormfront in ENT, and that while the Prime Timeline was restored by those events, they also gave birth to the MU where the Axis powers still won the war thanks to the help of the Nak'hul.
So... I wonder about the TOS mirror episode and Germany given that salute the Terrans do...
The general fan theory is that in the Mirror Universe the Axis powers won WWII.
Another is that in the MU, the Axis powers were the good guys (and lost).
Another is that the MU was born as an alternate timeline due to the events of Stormfront in ENT, and that while the Prime Timeline was restored by those events, they also gave birth to the MU where the Axis powers still won the war thanks to the help of the Nak'hul.
I know that but I mean the German reaction to said episode and weather it was visible on air(I know now they're less dense about that on TV but I mean then)
It is not irrational at all, ALL of the Augments, including Julien's short bus buddies, have increased aggression and reduced impulse control, making them violent and prone to outbursts, and no amount of genetic tinkering has been able to remove those qualities, coupled with their physical enhancements it makes for an extremely dangerous combination.
That is just a result of their poor education. That very episode showed how they were, in fact, wrong. Had they not been isolated from real life for so long, they would have recognized their own potential to err. (Bashir just got carried away with the herd.)
They were plenty smart. That and the episode's main plot was based on the Foundation Trilogy, so they kind of had to go that route or it wouldn't have been a proper homage! Their issue was they were arrogant, and that was the whole point of the episode as it pertained to Bashir and his fellow augments. Bashir wasn't just carried away. His arc in Statistical Probabilites directly plays off the words I quoted from Dr. Bashir I Presume, where an Admiral spoke them as a warning of the dangers of augmentation. He had an arrogant flair from the moment the series began. His juggling of arrogance and humility throughout the series is one of the things that made his character enjoyable.
.. or at least that was the common interpretation of the time, and the Terrans stuck with it in their laws.
Yeah, there's this line that gets tossed around rather casually "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." But it's never been true. What is true is that the illusion that you can do whatever you want will cause you to act that way.
I don't see any reason to believe that it was their inherent nature that made so many Augments evil. It's that most were raised to be tyrants and tyrant wannabes.
Part and parcel of that statement isn't that "every single being that ever gets their hands on 'ultimate power' is going to wind up corrupted", it's that the mere existence of said ultimate power will "eventually" lead to someone being corrupted and the situation tanks.
So, yeah, the first, maybe even second, batch of Augments may have been trained / morality imprinted / whatever to be paragons of virtue, just as their designers intended. Then King Bonehead manages to somehow put himself together an Augment, enough to break into an "Augment Lab" to boost himself and a few dozen "loyalists" to power without all the "good guy" imprinting and bingo...
According to the IDW Khan mini-series Khan is from the first "generation" of the genetically enhanced, and they ALL turned on humanity.
Because they were created to be super soldiers. they weren't made to be part of society.
I see a lot of people conflating real-world common sense with in-universe sense.
Many are making the point that any issue with Augment aggression is merely a hurdle to be overcome, that it can't be a universal truth of augments, etc. But you're failing to grasp that, despite what logic tells you, that just isn't how it works in-universe. It's inescapably canon that augments universally suffer from increased aggression, that all Augments, or at least the hugely overwhelming majority, sided with Khan in the Eugenics Wars, and that even Bashir, shining example of how good an Augment can be, still suffered from these issues to some extent. It is explicitly, solidly, soundly established that if you augment a human, they become somewhat more aggressive in the best case, and Super Hitler at worst, with most falling close enough to Super Hitler to be dangerous. Human augmentation is, from an in-universe perspective, a really really bad idea. Arguments around this fact are based on real-world logic, where we don't know but can safely assume an augmented human wouldn't automatically become a genocidal maniac.
Science fiction and fantasy are two sides of the same coin. Just as any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, any sufficiently explained magic is indistinguishable from science. "A force man was not meant to know" is a logic applied in Science Fiction all the time. Science gone wrong is invoked just as frequently, and maybe even more often, than science gone right (he'll it's pretty strong in one of the earliest Science Fiction novels, Frankenstein by Mary Shelly).
I see a lot of people conflating real-world common sense with in-universe sense.
[...]
Trek is supposed to be Science Fiction, not Fantasy. Technology isn't bad in Trek just because one application of it didn't work as planned. It is not magic, not a force Man Was Not Meant To Know, but applied science. If you don't figure it out at the first attempt, you try again.
The cultural context of the 20th century made this particular technology a scare thing, for historic reasons explained above. So they handwaved it into something special, something uncontrollable. But from a more recent perspective, that just doesn't make sense any more.
Yeah, social commentary fails utterly when divorced from real-world common sense. Truthfully, I don't think that it ever really made sense out-of-universe, unless you subscribe to the idea that "natural evolution" is inherently better than anything humans can do. (Which does seem to be the underlying assumption in certain episodes)
Comments
The reason why movies/TV can show NS symbols and games can't is rather simple. Movies/TV are considered art by German law and therefore fall under the freedom of arts law which allows the use the symbols under certain conditions. Games are not considered art and therefore cannot show the symbols. Did i mention that our lawmakers are TRIBBLE dinosaurs?
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I don't see any reason to believe that it was their inherent nature that made so many Augments evil. It's that most were raised to be tyrants and tyrant wannabes.
My character Tsin'xing
Part and parcel of that statement isn't that "every single being that ever gets their hands on 'ultimate power' is going to wind up corrupted", it's that the mere existence of said ultimate power will "eventually" lead to someone being corrupted and the situation tanks.
So, yeah, the first, maybe even second, batch of Augments may have been trained / morality imprinted / whatever to be paragons of virtue, just as their designers intended. Then King Bonehead manages to somehow put himself together an Augment, enough to break into an "Augment Lab" to boost himself and a few dozen "loyalists" to power without all the "good guy" imprinting and bingo...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Did someone forget Dr Bashir's dirty little secret on DS9?
So... I wonder about the TOS mirror episode and Germany given that salute the Terrans do...
It would be cool to see more of this though - human augments would be an interesting new enemy faction provided they make it different enough from the Terrans. That aisde, and speaking of genocide, the new TOS faction is in dire need of a planet of the hats episode.
Khan as a character makes good scifi, but bad social commentary. The DS9 episodes tackling the subject I think were much better at broaching the dangers of such technology, and the resulting problems that such a ban might have. Star Trek presents a consistently rational reason for why in universe augmentation is illegal ("For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings").
Star Trek's portrayal of such technology and its consequences playing out in reality as in the shows is highly unlikely, but that's fiction for you!
The general fan theory is that in the Mirror Universe the Axis powers won WWII.
Another is that in the MU, the Axis powers were the good guys (and lost).
Another is that the MU was born as an alternate timeline due to the events of Stormfront in ENT, and that while the Prime Timeline was restored by those events, they also gave birth to the MU where the Axis powers still won the war thanks to the help of the Nak'hul.
I know that but I mean the German reaction to said episode and weather it was visible on air(I know now they're less dense about that on TV but I mean then)
so... they're human... and act just like humans
They were plenty smart. That and the episode's main plot was based on the Foundation Trilogy, so they kind of had to go that route or it wouldn't have been a proper homage! Their issue was they were arrogant, and that was the whole point of the episode as it pertained to Bashir and his fellow augments. Bashir wasn't just carried away. His arc in Statistical Probabilites directly plays off the words I quoted from Dr. Bashir I Presume, where an Admiral spoke them as a warning of the dangers of augmentation. He had an arrogant flair from the moment the series began. His juggling of arrogance and humility throughout the series is one of the things that made his character enjoyable.
My character Tsin'xing
Many are making the point that any issue with Augment aggression is merely a hurdle to be overcome, that it can't be a universal truth of augments, etc. But you're failing to grasp that, despite what logic tells you, that just isn't how it works in-universe. It's inescapably canon that augments universally suffer from increased aggression, that all Augments, or at least the hugely overwhelming majority, sided with Khan in the Eugenics Wars, and that even Bashir, shining example of how good an Augment can be, still suffered from these issues to some extent. It is explicitly, solidly, soundly established that if you augment a human, they become somewhat more aggressive in the best case, and Super Hitler at worst, with most falling close enough to Super Hitler to be dangerous. Human augmentation is, from an in-universe perspective, a really really bad idea. Arguments around this fact are based on real-world logic, where we don't know but can safely assume an augmented human wouldn't automatically become a genocidal maniac.
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My character Tsin'xing