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The Engine Needs to be Upgraded Badly

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    bloctoadbloctoad Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    Why would Cryptic spend money upgrading the engine when they've no reason to do so? They still make money hand over fist off lockboxes and content packs.
    Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content."
    Al Rivera hates Klingons
    Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
    All cloaks should be canon.
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    stelakkhstelakkh Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    So wait, you've spent the last six years of your life playing a game you abhor just so you can TRIBBLE about it?

    We hung on in the hopes it would get better until we finally gave up. I came back to try it again to see if anything had changed but, no surprise, all it meant was a graphics bug requiring a command line workaround ("Star Trek: Workaround" is what it really should be called, since workarounds have been the de rigueur of STO), and I found THAT only after multiple crashes on launch.
    samt1996 wrote: »
    For the record, Cryptic was forced to fulfill Perpetual's old contract which required a finished product 18 months after the date they took over. They have however done their best to go back and overhaul things when they get a chance. So not their fault like at all, CBS fault.

    I'm well aware of why they went with the 18-month development, and the point is that they should have said, "We can't do it justice in 18 months, CBS. If you want something that would be a good addition that someone who cares about the franchise would be proud to include in it, you'll have to give us more time."

    But they didn't. They thought, "Hey, we can make a killing by putting out a garbage product because Trek fans will play it just because it's Trek."

    Trek, and its fans, deserve better. They deserved better since Cryptic decided to put money over care or love for Trek.
    Actual Join Date: August, 2008
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Speculation, you have no idea what Cryptic did or didn't try to work out with CBS.
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    nephitisnephitis Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    stelakkh wrote: »
    I'm well aware of why they went with the 18-month development, and the point is that they should have said, "We can't do it justice in 18 months, CBS. If you want something tat would be a good addition that someone who cares about the franchise would be proud to include in it, you'll have to give us more time."

    But they didn't. They thought, "Hey, we can make a killing by putting out a garbage product because Trek fans will play it just because it's Trek."

    Trek, and its fans, deserve better. They deserved better since Cryptic decided to put money over care or love for Trek.
    They had the experience from making City of Hereos and Champions Online, and they also had reusable code and game engine. Also, all the lore and story was written for them with CBS and the Star Trek franchise. They had a significant head start with Star Trek Online that few other developers of MMOs had. Sure, they came short nevertheless. However, an 18 month long development is very short for an MMO.

    And I find it odd that the players can play this game for years without any significant hiccups and then you have the players who need to grind their own teeth trying to solve technical problems.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Actually, The way I remember it the 18 month time frame was one of CBS's requirements for selling them rights. So Cryptic had two choices, agree to do it in 18 months or no sale.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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    captainperkinscaptainperkins Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    I JUST Want to say: Thank you Cryptic team. You have done a good job. I love Star Trek Online. I know you have had struggles that you have not told the community about, I know you're on our team because if it's not for us you would have no jobs. I know you care... that's why you bring on celebrity talent at a huge cost to you. I know you try to please EVERYONE, and still the constant complains come.

    Ignore the complaints, I love you- and you have done a great job. I've purchased nearly everything you sell to support you.

    Xo
    yO

    (can I have a free ship now? :P)
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    thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    Here is something else I just thought of.
    Assume Cryptic decides to spend the enormous amount of money and time it takes to move this entire game over to a new engine. And, miracle of miracles, the player base does not wander off too far in the eighteen to twenty four months my (admittedly) very rough estimate says it would take to successfully accomplish this.

    Are people going to spend the money to upgrade their ISP and their at home hardware as well? Doubt it.
    Ever notice in a traffic jam how the people with the crappiest cars are usually the first ones to blow the horn?
    Just sayin'
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
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    kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Here is something else I just thought of.
    Assume Cryptic decides to spend the enormous amount of money and time it takes to move this entire game over to a new engine. And, miracle of miracles, the player base does not wander off too far in the eighteen to twenty four months my (admittedly) very rough estimate says it would take to successfully accomplish this.

    Are people going to spend the money to upgrade their ISP and their at home hardware as well? Doubt it.
    Ever notice in a traffic jam how the people with the crappiest cars are usually the first ones to blow the horn?
    Just sayin'

    Don't forget theyll need to spend money to re-buy all their zen items and lobi items.
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    YOU have a computer you perceive as too strong. That does NOT constitute the vast majority of players, just you and that POS you built in your parents basement.

    Something tells me you don't know a hertz from a hearse...
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    The superiority is strong with this one.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    You may be technically intelligent, but you're interpersonal skills are horrible.

    And wouldn't the logical thing to do is just turn down the game from max settings?

    Instead of going out of your way to insult both the Dev's from Cryptic and other players.

    smh
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Now where did I put my popcorn...
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    thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    snip
    Problem is, your people skills are in serious need of an upgrade and you've been nothing but a troll throughout this entire thread. How proud your parents must be of the donkey's rear end they've raised.

    I seriously suspect the majority of the players complaining the loudest about this game are doing so on a 'puter which is just barely powerful enough to handle it.

    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
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    daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    Here is something else I just thought of.
    Assume Cryptic decides to spend the enormous amount of money and time it takes to move this entire game over to a new engine. And, miracle of miracles, the player base does not wander off too far in the eighteen to twenty four months my (admittedly) very rough estimate says it would take to successfully accomplish this.

    Are people going to spend the money to upgrade their ISP and their at home hardware as well? Doubt it.
    Ever notice in a traffic jam how the people with the crappiest cars are usually the first ones to blow the horn?
    Just sayin'

    first....what would their ISP's have to do with an updated STO engine?

    Second, the only real reason people would be updating their hardware, is if they have 32-bit systems.....and there are VERY VERY VERY FEW of those people left right now.

    if the engine is updated heavily, it won't have to be graphically intensive, hell they can keep it as low as needed.

    but there are many benefits to this.

    Also, for those of you who found me on reddit, stop doing that.
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    You mean the Unofficial but really more Official Forums for the Devs? ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    [Intel Corei7-4710HQ, 2.5 MHz, 8 GB DDR3 RAM. Video card GeForce GTX 860M.

    ^he calls this powerful *falls out of chair laughing*
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    I'm not a troll, I just have principles and have zero appreciation for subpar work. I know I don't have good people skills, but at least I don't just eat up every little thing the corporations give me and accept it as "good". I have standards. Try getting some.

    Yet, here you are telling us that you actually spend time playing this game, which is apparently below your standards...

    I'd say your not quite as intelligent as you'd like us all to believe..., but then I'd be guilty of lowering myself to your "standards".

    b6656e8518dfe8b8ed677dd94770ec33.jpg

    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    At least we got a small break from all those embedded jpgs. At least the Signatures are suppressed on mobile.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    farranorfarranor Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    At least we got a small break from all those embedded jpgs. At least the Signatures are suppressed on mobile.

    You can disable signatures or signature images at any time, without using a mobile device.

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/profile/signature
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    I am practically always on mobile, it's the ones embedded in the text that can become somewhat annoying. Thanks for the info.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    Wow! Sounds like upgrading the engine is about as difficult as updating PvP.
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    snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    Question: How is the new expansion going to work on the current engine? With the game used to dealing with 25th Century tech, will switching and downgrading to duotronic computers and 1960s retro styling be much easier to handle? I think this might be Cryptic's way of avoiding upgrading the engine! We're going backwards with our tech, flying much more dated ships and that will improve overall performance. Correct if I'm wrong. But yeah, now that we'll be able to fly a Daedalus, it's going to be waaaaay easier on the engine. No upgrades needed!

    ;)

    Side Note: That's how this works right? Right?

    hahahahahahahah
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    xxya
    Question: How is the new expansion going to work on the current engine? With the game used to dealing with 25th Century tech, will switching and downgrading to duotronic computers and 1960s retro styling be much easier to handle? I think this might be Cryptic's way of avoiding upgrading the engine! We're going backwards with our tech, flying much more dated ships and that will improve overall performance. Correct if I'm wrong. But yeah, now that we'll be able to fly a Daedalus, it's going to be waaaaay easier on the engine. No upgrades needed!

    ;)

    Side Note: That's how this works right? Right?

    hahahahahahahah
    Obviously you're correct. How else could it work?

    Starcraft 1 runs much better on my machine than Starcraft 2- obviously the more advanced units in Starcraft 2 are a bit more for my computer to handle than Starcraft 1.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    The first computer I used to play STO back in 2010, died because of a Tribble.
    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
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    tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited May 2016
    stelakkh wrote: »
    I know I know, another one of these posts.

    but it doesn't change the fact this game is very much ancient in its engine, I mean....it's from 2006, modified heavily a few years ago, but not enough. This game, even with very good hardware, struggles at times, especially in the new "counterpoint" where it seems a lot of people are having problems with framerate, even with good hardware.

    The biggest problem here is that the engine STO runs on was never, ever intended to run STO. Cryptic had an engine already developed at the time they got the STO license, and that is the Champions engine, created for Champions Online.

    In order to push the game out in 18 months, Cryptic went the fast-and-dirty way by modding an existing game and dumping a terrible, buggy mess skinned on an engine that was totally inadequate to what it really needs to do, and which is frankly a disgraceful way to handle the biggest and most-beloved science fiction franchise on the face of the planet (before anyone starts, "Star Wars" isn't science fiction, it's space fantasy, so calm down).

    I remember seeing STO for the first time in beta years ago and thinking, "Oh, my god. They effed it up completely." Absolutely nothing has changed my opinion of the game since then. In fact, it's only gotten worse (especially after PWE, the cancer of the MMO industry, got their hands on it).

    Um . . . no.

    The fact that the game had a short timeframe before release didn't lead to us using our engine. Our engine was going to be used no matter what. And while the engine was INITIALLY built for Champions, that doesn't mean that it is and forever will be, "The Champions Engine." (Just as Epic made an engine for Unreal, and then used the "same" engine over and over again for all of their subsequent games) It's an engine, it's adaptable. And like any engine, changes were made to it to accommodate the game it was being used for.

    The Unreal engine grew out of the engine originally made for Unreal, a first person shooter that came out in 1998. 18 years later, would you claim that the Unreal Engine can't do anything but 1998 era FPS games? Engines grow and change over time. They are adapted to fit the games that are made with them just as much (or more) as the game might be adapted to fit the engine.

    I'm sorry that you dislike our game, but I don't believe that the parallel dimension where STO was developed on another engine, as a version of you in love with the game.
    Actually, The way I remember it the 18 month time frame was one of CBS's requirements for selling them rights. So Cryptic had two choices, agree to do it in 18 months or no sale.

    This is correct. The timeframe was a condition from CBS for the license to trasnfer at all. It might be nice to think that some other company could have picked it up and run with it better than we did, but we got the license because no one else wanted to touch that dev cycle with a 10' stick. If Cryptic had not picked up the license, there wouldn't be a DIFFERENT STO, there would be NO STO.

    And for the record, remember that Perpetual had almost nothing after 4 years. When we were 6 months into the process and could show CBS that we actually HAD a game going, they agreed to give us an extension. (Can't remember exactly, but it was something on the 3-6 month scale) I don't remember the original ship date, but it was in 2009.
    Post edited by tacofangs on
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