I'm not sure I'd say the "average Joe gamer", even a build of basic standard (ie most pieces of equipment and boff skills contributing something to the build (up to mk 12, rep or not, fleet or not, that sort of thing)) is capable at least of completing all the content in the game in a reasonable time-frame. I'd suggest anyone who doesn't meet that standard will find it near impossible regardless of what gear is given to them.
Up to level 50 that is completely true, but post 50? Not so much. I challenge you to take a fresh level 50 character through the DR missions with no lockbox items and nothing from the exchange that costs more than 10m EC. That pretty much means sticking to one of the standard T5 ships that is given via an in game ship token, standard gear available from drops or missions up to that point, and doffs available from doff packs awarded at rank ups or from commendation ranks.
That is what "average joe gamer" faces going into content past level 50. No rep gear, most likely no cash items, and no lockbox stuff. The game IS easy up to that point but starting with DR content it's a whole different thing altogether.
Its not like the current BFAW setup takes some sort of crackerjack timing. Once you're carrying the key abilities, if they are off cooldown, mash them. Just about everything tricksy being ways to maximize your up-time. Or stacking as many over powered consoles and Boffs as you can get access to. And then upgrade-upgrade-upgrade. There's a reason most you tube DPS guides can cover the essentials in 3-5 minutes with the rest of the half hour being extreme tuning.
@aeternusdoleo, just to correct you on 1 aspect of your answer. PvP doesn't require high DPS if it means you can't hit the target. PvP: high Acc spike damage PvE: low Acc, high DPS FAW.
Its not like the current BFAW setup takes some sort of crackerjack timing. Once you're carrying the key abilities, if they are off cooldown, mash them. Just about everything tricksy being ways to maximize your up-time. Or stacking as many over powered consoles and Boffs as you can get access to. And then upgrade-upgrade-upgrade. There's a reason most you tube DPS guides can cover the essentials in 3-5 minutes with the rest of the half hour being extreme tuning.
Yeah, the standard BFAW setups are more or less foolproof but only if you know that such a thing exists.
Problem is that the gross majority relies on the game alone to explain & teach stuff, which we all here know isn't really a thing.
Srsly, once talked to a guy who thought that just getting a better verions of the default stuff ships come with (you know, the trainwreck mix of all weapon types this game has) is actually a good setup for endgame PvE.
Sure you can shift the blame on them for not seeking out one of the many sources but that wouldn't be necessary if the game itself would teach pretty much anything at all.
And since this is a F2P game you can expect a constant stream of unknowing/ignorant people who just come in, buy god knows what from the shop and then complain that they don't "win" despite having the "instant win stuff" the shop advertises.
Which in the ends leads to massive whining, powercreep and nerfs for npcs.
To be honest, i'm not sure i understand the term "balance" in context of STOs PvE game.
Does the OP mean the balance between Science/Tactical/Engineering career? Or Player vs. NPCs balance?
Balance between certain BOFF powers, like FAW vs BO? Or balance between energy weapon types (cannons vs. beams)?
In my understanding, Cryptics and most players bias towards more and more DPS is pretty boring and limits the game artificially. Now that we have some NPCs (Na'Kuhl queue) that can fire back, people are cyring because their glass cannons pop.
Regarding the power (DPS) balance between the various ship types (Cruiser/Escort/Science), i'm ok with how things are right now. Star Trek always was about Battleships in space (except the defiant which was an exception, even in universe), so cruisers (or better said big ships in general (in Trek: Big = more powerful)) are where they should be imo.
The thing i would like to be changed is FAW.
Don't get me wrong, i advocate cruisers in a Star Trek game (flying them is why i play a Star Trek game in the first place, i don't care about small escorts or other TRIBBLE like that), but having FAW as basicly the only viable Beam weapon power is boring and unnecessarily limiting. This doesn't mean i want other powers be buffed to FAW heights, i coild even live if all Energy weapon powers where cut to reasonable levels.
As i said years ago i'd like to have cannons and beam powers useable on either weapon type. I fail to see why a useful (from a tactical point of view) power like Scatter volley is limited to cannons only or why FAW is beams only.
It would make much more sense to me if they would be accessible to all energy weapons, it would allow much more diverse and interesting builds. (yes, i'm not a min/maxer and i don't care about DPS ISA records)
Btw: Why doesn't Cryptic finally introduce a in-game DPS parser, similar to old time(?) PvP summation at the end of a match? So players can see where they stand and how useful they where for the mission goal.(NOT just DPS!!!)
Why is the general emphasis only on DPS, why not heals or tanking too? Why do NPC enemy ships need to be so harmless? Heck, even i can beat Starbase 234 with ease on advanced difficulty. (yeah that's MY benchmark until i find some better one... )
Why do we only have missions in STO that promote DPS, why not tanking or healing?
Or does the OP mean the non existent balance between combat missions and non combat missions?
(remember, Star Trek is not about a Star WAR. No matter what Cryptic may prefer)
Sorry for this absolutely subjective rant/ramble.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Well, all I know is - beyond playing FE's or teaming up with friends, this game has, for me, become quite unenjoyable since the skills revamp.
I mean - queue for any PvE mission and you run the 'risk' of encountering players with BFAW builds that make a complete mockery of whatever mission you are in. Made another rare visit to ISA last night. Three BFAW Scimitards and 55 seconds later the instance was done. I can try to fool myself into beleiving that my presence was useful, but it really wasn't - I was a spectator, nothing more.
And whilst other content may last a little longer, same issue applies. I played other missions, and in MOST of them encountered the same issue - BFAW builds that obliterate everything in sight in a very short space of time.
Hehe, here we go again. You don’t play as much as you used to, decide do an ISA against your better judgment, end up in a group with faw scimitars and witness a match faster than those ever recorded.
You are really some lucky player. I mean I do numerous ISA a day and don’t have that much luck ever!
On a more positive note, how do CCa matches after the skill revamp work out for you? My scis dish out up to 90K dps there currently with 60K sci related and only 30k faw related DPS. I can only imagine what a dedicated sci captain with a torpedo build could do there…
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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I'm not sure I'd say the "average Joe gamer", even a build of basic standard (ie most pieces of equipment and boff skills contributing something to the build (up to mk 12, rep or not, fleet or not, that sort of thing)) is capable at least of completing all the content in the game in a reasonable time-frame. I'd suggest anyone who doesn't meet that standard will find it near impossible regardless of what gear is given to them.
Up to level 50 that is completely true, but post 50? Not so much. I challenge you to take a fresh level 50 character through the DR missions with no lockbox items and nothing from the exchange that costs more than 10m EC. That pretty much means sticking to one of the standard T5 ships that is given via an in game ship token, standard gear available from drops or missions up to that point, and doffs available from doff packs awarded at rank ups or from commendation ranks.
That is what "average joe gamer" faces going into content past level 50. No rep gear, most likely no cash items, and no lockbox stuff. The game IS easy up to that point but starting with DR content it's a whole different thing altogether.
I did that quite recently actually, as a friend of mine wanted to play a character with me, admittedly I skipped the Sovi in favour of my C-Store Excelsior but 10m EC is a huge amount of money... I can build 8 basic ships for that kind of money and have change, I only spent 3 million on mine that time round as I pulled some Mk 11 rare weapons off another toon I wasn't using, bought some Mk 11 rare consoles and some rare DCE doffs to finalise the core of my build (but I could still get by without them). Even with that Vaads aren't that tough to beat, I dare say I'd have been okay in common versions of the same equipment and no doffs which would have been a dirt cheap build.
Very true @semalda226 but runnin FAW and high DPS in PvP is a great way to explode in under 1 second (too many FBP spammers). I've fought DPS FAW boats (DPSers got a little cocky a year ago when PvP was proclaimed dead, again) and the only time they could hit me was when FAW was up but at the speed I was flying and with fleet neutroniums and a fleet shield (mk14 violet) it didn't do enough damage to matter especially when escorts can stay in the rear arc so as not to get hit with more than 4 beams.
Very true @semalda226 but runnin FAW and high DPS in PvP is a great way to explode in under 1 second (too many FBP spammers).
I like how people complain about FBP spammers when it's the sole hard counter to the FAW play the vast majority of people employ these days. Not that the gap between damage and healing is so huge the FBP can't be resisted, but DPSers have no-one to blame but themselves on that score, if they're going to take their mass FAW boats into pvp, I'm going to run low resist high part gens and exploit the living heck out of their own build.
I'm not sure I'd say the "average Joe gamer", even a build of basic standard (ie most pieces of equipment and boff skills contributing something to the build (up to mk 12, rep or not, fleet or not, that sort of thing)) is capable at least of completing all the content in the game in a reasonable time-frame. I'd suggest anyone who doesn't meet that standard will find it near impossible regardless of what gear is given to them.
Up to level 50 that is completely true, but post 50? Not so much. I challenge you to take a fresh level 50 character through the DR missions with no lockbox items and nothing from the exchange that costs more than 10m EC. That pretty much means sticking to one of the standard T5 ships that is given via an in game ship token, standard gear available from drops or missions up to that point, and doffs available from doff packs awarded at rank ups or from commendation ranks.
That is what "average joe gamer" faces going into content past level 50. No rep gear, most likely no cash items, and no lockbox stuff. The game IS easy up to that point but starting with DR content it's a whole different thing altogether.
I did that quite recently actually, as a friend of mine wanted to play a character with me, admittedly I skipped the Sovi in favour of my C-Store Excelsior but 10m EC is a huge amount of money... I can build 8 basic ships for that kind of money and have change, I only spent 3 million on mine that time round as I pulled some Mk 11 rare weapons off another toon I wasn't using, bought some Mk 11 rare consoles and some rare DCE doffs to finalise the core of my build (but I could still get by without them). Even with that Vaads aren't that tough to beat, I dare say I'd have been okay in common versions of the same equipment and no doffs which would have been a dirt cheap build.
I suppose I should have clarified the 10m EC bit. Only EC earned by that character up to 10m, only fair since new players don't have access to already established accounts for hand-me-downs and don't have the luxury of being able to spend 3-5 mil without a second thought on the "cheap" blue and purple mk X-XI gear available on the exchange. Try it without relying on meta knowledge of overcapped weapon power FAW Cruiser builds and use, say, a Sci ship with an aux+shield power setup.
Your first thought was probably something along the lines of "Why would I want to do that?" wasn't it.
I'm not sure I'd say the "average Joe gamer", even a build of basic standard (ie most pieces of equipment and boff skills contributing something to the build (up to mk 12, rep or not, fleet or not, that sort of thing)) is capable at least of completing all the content in the game in a reasonable time-frame. I'd suggest anyone who doesn't meet that standard will find it near impossible regardless of what gear is given to them.
Up to level 50 that is completely true, but post 50? Not so much. I challenge you to take a fresh level 50 character through the DR missions with no lockbox items and nothing from the exchange that costs more than 10m EC. That pretty much means sticking to one of the standard T5 ships that is given via an in game ship token, standard gear available from drops or missions up to that point, and doffs available from doff packs awarded at rank ups or from commendation ranks.
That is what "average joe gamer" faces going into content past level 50. No rep gear, most likely no cash items, and no lockbox stuff. The game IS easy up to that point but starting with DR content it's a whole different thing altogether.
I did that quite recently actually, as a friend of mine wanted to play a character with me, admittedly I skipped the Sovi in favour of my C-Store Excelsior but 10m EC is a huge amount of money... I can build 8 basic ships for that kind of money and have change, I only spent 3 million on mine that time round as I pulled some Mk 11 rare weapons off another toon I wasn't using, bought some Mk 11 rare consoles and some rare DCE doffs to finalise the core of my build (but I could still get by without them). Even with that Vaads aren't that tough to beat, I dare say I'd have been okay in common versions of the same equipment and no doffs which would have been a dirt cheap build.
I suppose I should have clarified the 10m EC bit. Only EC earned by that character up to 10m, only fair since new players don't have access to already established accounts for hand-me-downs and don't have the luxury of being able to spend 3-5 mil without a second thought on the "cheap" blue and purple mk X-XI gear available on the exchange. Try it without relying on meta knowledge of overcapped weapon power FAW Cruiser builds and use, say, a Sci ship with an aux+shield power setup.
Your first thought was probably something along the lines of "Why would I want to do that?" wasn't it.
Actually, doing another sci/sci sounds more powerful than doing a FAWboat, admittedly though my existing science runs overcap weapon power with balanced shield/engines/aux base levels, roughly 1.5k per hit, per beam (with six total), along with about 2k on the grav well. and 1.5k on the TR+TB combo and that's before I start adding sensor scan, APB, photo fleet... Nimbus pirates... Scarily I think my Excels with their single FAW deal less damage into multiple or single targets.
FBP isn't the only way to counter FAW. The problem with FBP is that the only counter is to stop firing but the buff list nowadays is too big to pick it out of the bunch and it'll go straight to shields. Used to be you could tank a 40k hit to hull in an escort but not 100k as feedback from beam overload from a weapon with acc3. The feedback should be enough to punish the attacker and cripple him not 1 shot him.
Actually, doing another sci/sci sounds more powerful than doing a FAWboat, admittedly though my existing science runs overcap weapon power with balanced shield/engines/aux base levels, roughly 1.5k per hit, per beam (with six total), along with about 2k on the grav well. and 1.5k on the TR+TB combo and that's before I start adding sensor scan, APB, photo fleet... Nimbus pirates... Scarily I think my Excels with their single FAW deal less damage into multiple or single targets.
Since the skill revamp, yeah. I just went through the final DR mission for laughs in my GW/Torp build Paradox and everything died if I so much as looked in it's direction. It was hilarious, a Heavy Artillery ship and it's escorts went from full to dead with GW3+a single TS3 volley of Neutronics. I guess the NPCs might have helped some? I couldn't really tell, it was dead almost before I even realized it. I'm betting Sci powers are going to be nerfed soon given cryptic's past track record with them.
I still don't think a non-tricked out Sci ship would have it quite so easy though since the Vaadwaur are virtually immune to slows/holds and like to fly out of Gravwells and Tractor Beams like they aren't even there. While going through the DR storyline I remember several times having an Assault Ship hit with GW3+TB+all 3 cloaking tractor mines and it still flew away.
Umm...I use a Science Vessel with 130 Aux and 120 shield power.....and I do 80k dps.....
You missed the rest of our back and forth, we were talking about how it's balanced for a new player with a fresh level 50 character trying to go through post 50 content for the first time.
I can say this 1 more major nerf to science and I'm tossing this game out the window. I'm soo sick of the 1 style of play I like constantly earning the attention of the Nerf Hammers while everything else in the game gets the "Moar Powah!" Treatment.
Actually, doing another sci/sci sounds more powerful than doing a FAWboat, admittedly though my existing science runs overcap weapon power with balanced shield/engines/aux base levels, roughly 1.5k per hit, per beam (with six total), along with about 2k on the grav well. and 1.5k on the TR+TB combo and that's before I start adding sensor scan, APB, photo fleet... Nimbus pirates... Scarily I think my Excels with their single FAW deal less damage into multiple or single targets.
Since the skill revamp, yeah. I just went through the final DR mission for laughs in my GW/Torp build Paradox and everything died if I so much as looked in it's direction. It was hilarious, a Heavy Artillery ship and it's escorts went from full to dead with GW3+a single TS3 volley of Neutronics. I guess the NPCs might have helped some? I couldn't really tell, it was dead almost before I even realized it. I'm betting Sci powers are going to be nerfed soon given cryptic's past track record with them.
I still don't think a non-tricked out Sci ship would have it quite so easy though since the Vaadwaur are virtually immune to slows/holds and like to fly out of Gravwells and Tractor Beams like they aren't even there. While going through the DR storyline I remember several times having an Assault Ship hit with GW3+TB+all 3 cloaking tractor mines and it still flew away.
Honestly, I've never had THAT issue, the issue I have is with those darned arty ships that use the sodding placate and zip off somewhere because your hold is gone. I may do a torp boat one day, see what heights my grav wells reach under those conditions but as it is, even my pvp build which uses transphasic torps because of all the partgens I crammed into the thing for a DRB that deals around 10-15k (at last check) per second and then there's all the other stuff, not to mention the 300% FBP, uses one 360 degree beam array for beam target subsystem skills I refuse to waste, besides, even a partgens build can benefit from beam target engines. But so far I've stuck with beam arrays on my Nova partly because GW (with doff)+APB+FAW+EPtW+Scan (with doff)+Fleet+Scat field+Pirates (which is as terrifying as it sounds) and partly because when I was playing with power, I found that I lost more damage on my beam arrays when I stepped down from 125 in weapons than I gained on my grav well.
Still, I agree that a non-tricked out sci wouldn't be quite as efficient but, I don't see too many additional hardships given that most science damage is either 50% shield bypass or 100% bypass so I can't really see a 25-50% damage reduction being too much to worry about, besides, the difference between Mk 14 fleet partgen consoles and Mk 11 rares isn't that massive, especially when you consider how these are the main source of partgens and how much the skill table doesn't buff skills, the main contributor to these 400+ partgen builds is the exotic particle exciter with more partgens for +75 which is insane and appropriately priced on the exchange.
Lastly, on a sci nerf, I'm debating the likelihood of it. If pvp were still a thing then yeah, we'd likely see nerfs across the board (not blaming fellow pvpers here, just that in terms of player health and resists these things are too powerful) of course with the demise of pvp with DR (I'm sure Geko partied that day) things no longer need to be balanced so even science can now jump on the OP train, we just can't have first class service like FAW.
And sadly that's the arguement that sickens me more than any other. The oh your damage either ignores shields or ignores half of them so you need to be nerfed to the dirt to compensate. Seriously? How much have you played science and used the skills? My attacks on DRB2 and TBR2 hit around 15-25k per pulse (the 25k or higher hits are caused by my damage resistance debuffs) while a BFAW Boat can hit 20k or upwards of 50k WITHOUT a shield bypass AND THAT'S PER BEAM!!! And you say science needs to be nerfed due to shield bypass? Seriously need to wake up on where the "OP needs a nerf!" Tag needs to placed....
Edit: also the science skills that deal damage and have those shield bypasses with the exception of FBP don't deal damage to the shields which is why they have the bypass otherwise 95% of the damage they could do would be negated right off the bat!
Highly subjective question that's not even defined, but I voted anyway because there have been some excellent changes. Pretty much read all the comments and don't agree with most of them....especially the calls for nerfs.
Why do we only have missions in STO that promote DPS, why not tanking or healing?
Becuase
A. Missions vs NPCs dont logically promote tanking or healing. Unless you go full on WoW were you do raid bossses that can kill even the best equipped gear in .5 hits due to how much damage they do, aka artificial difficulty.
If that's how game developers make non DPS people viable in a MMO, why not?
But i don't think they'll need to go that far. What i would do is to make DPS enhancing stuff (like consoles for ex.) diminish the more you equip. Just like Armor or Damage resistance.
Also, NPC ships that actually pose a threat to the player would also help (unlike the moving target practices we are facing all the time). The anwser cannot (or better said SHOULD not) be more DPS whatever enemy a player is facing.
Obviously game developers have to force people to think about a more defensive playstyle if they where interested in having a well balanced game.
Or does the OP mean the non existent balance between combat missions and non combat missions?
(remember, Star Trek is not about a Star WAR. No matter what Cryptic may prefer)
You mean Star Trek? The show where someone fought someone in some way basically every episode?
No, i meant that series that raised moral and ethical questions. The series that showed that cooperation was preferable to competition. Of course, from a superficial point of view it's about rather medicore stories, but the subject behind some episodes is pretty much up to date (not always. lol ).
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
No control ability should be hitting for 25k especially in PvP. This game needs the trinity so badly. It's no wonder people levelling up haven't got a clue on what to do and why. Everyone has to be "the hero" so it's max DPS for all to see who can ISA the fastest.
Science works best hand in hand with another ship by its side. PvP has proven this: Science with escort (preferably cloaked) gets ambushed, traps am ushers with control effects, escort dishes out pain. Science with cruiser: cruiser gets ambushed, science comes in and lines up enemies for the cruiser to grav well FAW everything to oblivion.
It works, you don't need 50k DPS when a science ship is around because everything will be debugged to a point where 5k dos would be enough to complete ISA in 5 minutes.
No control ability should be hitting for 25k especially in PvP. This game needs the trinity so badly. It's no wonder people levelling up haven't got a clue on what to do and why. Everyone has to be "the hero" so it's max DPS for all to see who can ISA the fastest.
Science works best hand in hand with another ship by its side.
PvP has proven this:
Science with escort (preferably cloaked) gets ambushed, traps am ushers with control effects, escort dishes out pain.
Science with cruiser: cruiser gets ambushed, science comes in and lines up enemies for the cruiser to grav well FAW everything to oblivion.
It works, you don't need 50k DPS when a science ship is around because everything will be debugged to a point where 5k dos would be enough to complete ISA in 5 minutes.
Yeah looks nice on paper but that's simply not how the game evovled over the past couple years, especially on the PvP side which didn't do anything except die a slow death thanks to powerceep.
"Going back" to the trinity is pretty impossible by now, the only thing the devs could do to achive that at this point is trash absolutely everything and start from scratch.
And sadly that's the arguement that sickens me more than any other. The oh your damage either ignores shields or ignores half of them so you need to be nerfed to the dirt to compensate. Seriously? How much have you played science and used the skills? My attacks on DRB2 and TBR2 hit around 15-25k per pulse (the 25k or higher hits are caused by my damage resistance debuffs) while a BFAW Boat can hit 20k or upwards of 50k WITHOUT a shield bypass AND THAT'S PER BEAM!!! And you say science needs to be nerfed due to shield bypass? Seriously need to wake up on where the "OP needs a nerf!" Tag needs to placed....
Edit: also the science skills that deal damage and have those shield bypasses with the exception of FBP don't deal damage to the shields which is why they have the bypass otherwise 95% of the damage they could do would be negated right off the bat!
I think you may have misinterpreted that paragraph, I was drawing a comparison between what can be expected from a top end build vs a low level ordered sci build which is probably in the range of 25-50%, I will admit though that my wording likely could have been better. I have no desire to see a nerf to anything except the top level output of FAW builds which need to be brought in line with everything else because frankly 100k+ solo dps in this game is beyond ridiculous.
Since anyone in STO can do what the guy next to them is doing (barring true exploits), I don't get this question. In fact I would prefer less balance. I hated it when they gave away the very well designed factional gear to all factions.
Comments
Up to level 50 that is completely true, but post 50? Not so much. I challenge you to take a fresh level 50 character through the DR missions with no lockbox items and nothing from the exchange that costs more than 10m EC. That pretty much means sticking to one of the standard T5 ships that is given via an in game ship token, standard gear available from drops or missions up to that point, and doffs available from doff packs awarded at rank ups or from commendation ranks.
That is what "average joe gamer" faces going into content past level 50. No rep gear, most likely no cash items, and no lockbox stuff. The game IS easy up to that point but starting with DR content it's a whole different thing altogether.
PvP: high Acc spike damage
PvE: low Acc, high DPS FAW.
Yeah, the standard BFAW setups are more or less foolproof but only if you know that such a thing exists.
Problem is that the gross majority relies on the game alone to explain & teach stuff, which we all here know isn't really a thing.
Srsly, once talked to a guy who thought that just getting a better verions of the default stuff ships come with (you know, the trainwreck mix of all weapon types this game has) is actually a good setup for endgame PvE.
Sure you can shift the blame on them for not seeking out one of the many sources but that wouldn't be necessary if the game itself would teach pretty much anything at all.
And since this is a F2P game you can expect a constant stream of unknowing/ignorant people who just come in, buy god knows what from the shop and then complain that they don't "win" despite having the "instant win stuff" the shop advertises.
Which in the ends leads to massive whining, powercreep and nerfs for npcs.
Does the OP mean the balance between Science/Tactical/Engineering career? Or Player vs. NPCs balance?
Balance between certain BOFF powers, like FAW vs BO? Or balance between energy weapon types (cannons vs. beams)?
In my understanding, Cryptics and most players bias towards more and more DPS is pretty boring and limits the game artificially. Now that we have some NPCs (Na'Kuhl queue) that can fire back, people are cyring because their glass cannons pop.
Regarding the power (DPS) balance between the various ship types (Cruiser/Escort/Science), i'm ok with how things are right now. Star Trek always was about Battleships in space (except the defiant which was an exception, even in universe), so cruisers (or better said big ships in general (in Trek: Big = more powerful)) are where they should be imo.
The thing i would like to be changed is FAW.
Don't get me wrong, i advocate cruisers in a Star Trek game (flying them is why i play a Star Trek game in the first place, i don't care about small escorts or other TRIBBLE like that), but having FAW as basicly the only viable Beam weapon power is boring and unnecessarily limiting. This doesn't mean i want other powers be buffed to FAW heights, i coild even live if all Energy weapon powers where cut to reasonable levels.
As i said years ago i'd like to have cannons and beam powers useable on either weapon type. I fail to see why a useful (from a tactical point of view) power like Scatter volley is limited to cannons only or why FAW is beams only.
It would make much more sense to me if they would be accessible to all energy weapons, it would allow much more diverse and interesting builds. (yes, i'm not a min/maxer and i don't care about DPS ISA records)
Btw: Why doesn't Cryptic finally introduce a in-game DPS parser, similar to old time(?) PvP summation at the end of a match? So players can see where they stand and how useful they where for the mission goal.(NOT just DPS!!!)
Why is the general emphasis only on DPS, why not heals or tanking too? Why do NPC enemy ships need to be so harmless? Heck, even i can beat Starbase 234 with ease on advanced difficulty. (yeah that's MY benchmark until i find some better one...
Why do we only have missions in STO that promote DPS, why not tanking or healing?
Or does the OP mean the non existent balance between combat missions and non combat missions?
(remember, Star Trek is not about a Star WAR. No matter what Cryptic may prefer)
Sorry for this absolutely subjective rant/ramble.
Good players get a lot batter while bad players get only a bit better having them look like being a lot worse in comparison.
I also don’t think that any hard caps to DPS are in order since teams consisting of too good players already hard cap themselves enough on easy maps.
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Hehe, here we go again. You don’t play as much as you used to, decide do an ISA against your better judgment, end up in a group with faw scimitars and witness a match faster than those ever recorded.
You are really some lucky player. I mean I do numerous ISA a day and don’t have that much luck ever!
On a more positive note, how do CCa matches after the skill revamp work out for you? My scis dish out up to 90K dps there currently with 60K sci related and only 30k faw related DPS. I can only imagine what a dedicated sci captain with a torpedo build could do there…
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I did that quite recently actually, as a friend of mine wanted to play a character with me, admittedly I skipped the Sovi in favour of my C-Store Excelsior but 10m EC is a huge amount of money... I can build 8 basic ships for that kind of money and have change, I only spent 3 million on mine that time round as I pulled some Mk 11 rare weapons off another toon I wasn't using, bought some Mk 11 rare consoles and some rare DCE doffs to finalise the core of my build (but I could still get by without them). Even with that Vaads aren't that tough to beat, I dare say I'd have been okay in common versions of the same equipment and no doffs which would have been a dirt cheap build.
I've fought DPS FAW boats (DPSers got a little cocky a year ago when PvP was proclaimed dead, again) and the only time they could hit me was when FAW was up but at the speed I was flying and with fleet neutroniums and a fleet shield (mk14 violet) it didn't do enough damage to matter especially when escorts can stay in the rear arc so as not to get hit with more than 4 beams.
I like how people complain about FBP spammers when it's the sole hard counter to the FAW play the vast majority of people employ these days. Not that the gap between damage and healing is so huge the FBP can't be resisted, but DPSers have no-one to blame but themselves on that score, if they're going to take their mass FAW boats into pvp, I'm going to run low resist high part gens and exploit the living heck out of their own build.
I suppose I should have clarified the 10m EC bit. Only EC earned by that character up to 10m, only fair since new players don't have access to already established accounts for hand-me-downs and don't have the luxury of being able to spend 3-5 mil without a second thought on the "cheap" blue and purple mk X-XI gear available on the exchange. Try it without relying on meta knowledge of overcapped weapon power FAW Cruiser builds and use, say, a Sci ship with an aux+shield power setup.
Your first thought was probably something along the lines of "Why would I want to do that?" wasn't it.
Actually, doing another sci/sci sounds more powerful than doing a FAWboat, admittedly though my existing science runs overcap weapon power with balanced shield/engines/aux base levels, roughly 1.5k per hit, per beam (with six total), along with about 2k on the grav well. and 1.5k on the TR+TB combo and that's before I start adding sensor scan, APB, photo fleet... Nimbus pirates... Scarily I think my Excels with their single FAW deal less damage into multiple or single targets.
Since the skill revamp, yeah. I just went through the final DR mission for laughs in my GW/Torp build Paradox and everything died if I so much as looked in it's direction. It was hilarious, a Heavy Artillery ship and it's escorts went from full to dead with GW3+a single TS3 volley of Neutronics. I guess the NPCs might have helped some? I couldn't really tell, it was dead almost before I even realized it. I'm betting Sci powers are going to be nerfed soon given cryptic's past track record with them.
I still don't think a non-tricked out Sci ship would have it quite so easy though since the Vaadwaur are virtually immune to slows/holds and like to fly out of Gravwells and Tractor Beams like they aren't even there. While going through the DR storyline I remember several times having an Assault Ship hit with GW3+TB+all 3 cloaking tractor mines and it still flew away.
You missed the rest of our back and forth, we were talking about how it's balanced for a new player with a fresh level 50 character trying to go through post 50 content for the first time.
Honestly, I've never had THAT issue, the issue I have is with those darned arty ships that use the sodding placate and zip off somewhere because your hold is gone. I may do a torp boat one day, see what heights my grav wells reach under those conditions but as it is, even my pvp build which uses transphasic torps because of all the partgens I crammed into the thing for a DRB that deals around 10-15k (at last check) per second and then there's all the other stuff, not to mention the 300% FBP, uses one 360 degree beam array for beam target subsystem skills I refuse to waste, besides, even a partgens build can benefit from beam target engines. But so far I've stuck with beam arrays on my Nova partly because GW (with doff)+APB+FAW+EPtW+Scan (with doff)+Fleet+Scat field+Pirates (which is as terrifying as it sounds) and partly because when I was playing with power, I found that I lost more damage on my beam arrays when I stepped down from 125 in weapons than I gained on my grav well.
Still, I agree that a non-tricked out sci wouldn't be quite as efficient but, I don't see too many additional hardships given that most science damage is either 50% shield bypass or 100% bypass so I can't really see a 25-50% damage reduction being too much to worry about, besides, the difference between Mk 14 fleet partgen consoles and Mk 11 rares isn't that massive, especially when you consider how these are the main source of partgens and how much the skill table doesn't buff skills, the main contributor to these 400+ partgen builds is the exotic particle exciter with more partgens for +75 which is insane and appropriately priced on the exchange.
Lastly, on a sci nerf, I'm debating the likelihood of it. If pvp were still a thing then yeah, we'd likely see nerfs across the board (not blaming fellow pvpers here, just that in terms of player health and resists these things are too powerful) of course with the demise of pvp with DR (I'm sure Geko partied that day) things no longer need to be balanced so even science can now jump on the OP train, we just can't have first class service like FAW.
Edit: also the science skills that deal damage and have those shield bypasses with the exception of FBP don't deal damage to the shields which is why they have the bypass otherwise 95% of the damage they could do would be negated right off the bat!
But i don't think they'll need to go that far. What i would do is to make DPS enhancing stuff (like consoles for ex.) diminish the more you equip. Just like Armor or Damage resistance.
Also, NPC ships that actually pose a threat to the player would also help (unlike the moving target practices we are facing all the time). The anwser cannot (or better said SHOULD not) be more DPS whatever enemy a player is facing.
Obviously game developers have to force people to think about a more defensive playstyle if they where interested in having a well balanced game.
No, i meant that series that raised moral and ethical questions. The series that showed that cooperation was preferable to competition. Of course, from a superficial point of view it's about rather medicore stories, but the subject behind some episodes is pretty much up to date (not always. lol ).
Science works best hand in hand with another ship by its side.
PvP has proven this:
Science with escort (preferably cloaked) gets ambushed, traps am ushers with control effects, escort dishes out pain.
Science with cruiser: cruiser gets ambushed, science comes in and lines up enemies for the cruiser to grav well FAW everything to oblivion.
It works, you don't need 50k DPS when a science ship is around because everything will be debugged to a point where 5k dos would be enough to complete ISA in 5 minutes.
Yeah looks nice on paper but that's simply not how the game evovled over the past couple years, especially on the PvP side which didn't do anything except die a slow death thanks to powerceep.
"Going back" to the trinity is pretty impossible by now, the only thing the devs could do to achive that at this point is trash absolutely everything and start from scratch.
I think you may have misinterpreted that paragraph, I was drawing a comparison between what can be expected from a top end build vs a low level ordered sci build which is probably in the range of 25-50%, I will admit though that my wording likely could have been better. I have no desire to see a nerf to anything except the top level output of FAW builds which need to be brought in line with everything else because frankly 100k+ solo dps in this game is beyond ridiculous.