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Why is the Mac client going away?

devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
First of all, I'm behind because I've been busy with college classes for the past several weeks, so I just now found out about this. But I am really pissed!

Why is the Mac client going away? There was no problem with it. This doesn't make sense at all. They introduced the Mac client to expand service. Now they're pulling the rug out from under us. This is BS!

When the game first came out I tried using a Wine wrapper, but the gameplay was really choppy. Emulators aren't a solution at all. And I hate having to restart my computer just to use Bootcamp.

At least I'm setup for contingencies, but what about other Mac users? A lot of others will have to shell out extra money now to put Windows on their Macs or buy a secondary PC.

Ever since the Apple version was introduced, I really enjoyed the simplicity of just starting the Mac client from my Mac. Now they just arbitrarily cut it off for no good reason. WTF?
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1211294/mac-closure-notice

    Apparantly there were some issues.
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    bloodyrizbloodyriz Member Posts: 1,756 Arc User
    Probably wasn't cost effective to have both, so they keep the one that the majority uses.​​
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    As has already been discussed it's very difficulty and expensive to maintain another client and very few people use it. They aren't making enough money to justify giving it adequate support, just another example of Supply and Demand. Also, there are a number of ways to easily make it work on a Mac and some are reportedly better then the official client.

    Cryptic is not Blizzard or any other major studio with limitless budgets and player bases so they must allocate their resources as efficiently as possible
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    garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    what is a closed system good for? buy yourself a pc ..
    tmprl.jpg?width=998&height=499

    https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1249570/axanar-locks-in-start-date-for-filming
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Trolling won't make him any happier.
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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    garaks31 wrote: »
    what is a closed system good for? buy yourself a pc ..

    I have a PC, but my Mac is my primary computer. Furthermore, STO has always run better on my Mac. Performance issues are not the problem.
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Not for you perhaps but many of us couldn't even get the launcher to run for weeks on end.
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    fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    As I understand it, there were too many problems with the mac client and Cryptic couldn't get it working. My personal view is that the number of mac users is so low that from a business point of view (and in business there is only a business point of view) it is not profitable to support the mac platform. So u macs should have spend moar.

    I myself am a mac user, but for gaming I use a PC. It sure is regrettable that we have lost the mac client. Further is it absurd, as I noticed when I went to the ARC/STO webside via a google search, I see a page that tells me I can play the game on mac and PC. Not getting the mac client working is not the only thing Cryptic has a problem with.

    Something completely different. Before I played STO, I started playing when it went free-to-play, I played WoW. After quitting I never looked at it back. I remember that I really loved the music of that game. So today I bought the music score on iTunes. I play the WoW music on my mac and play STO on the PC. It will be awesome.

    About the mac client failure. Cryptic, what about making a complete new client for mac and PC? I would pay 200 bucks, same as an LTS, upfront, if you settle for it. I am serious.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,528 Arc User
    Why isn't there a new client engine built using Unreal 4 or Unity 5 for extra snazzy visuals? Money.
    Why isn't there a new story episode every week? Money.
    Why do ships cost money? Money.

    Macs make up around 6% of the PC market, so 1/15 of the player money PWE gains from PC. Maintaining the Mac client would lose them money. Rocket surgery powers tell me losing money is bad for a business.

    STO is not a charity, PWE needs to pay salaries and return a profit to their shareholders.
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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    Mac users like myself and thousands of others were playing the game, though I cannot prove it because they took down the Mac support forums. No, money was not the issue, because we were making them money. Period.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    have you explored the emulation options?
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    jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    davefenestrator wrote: »

    STO is not a charity, PWE needs to pay salaries and return a profit to their shareholders.

    PWE is no longer a publicly traded company. The current CEO bought all the outstanding shares of PWRD stock last Summer (July?) for something like $20.20 per share which was around a 25% - 30% premium.
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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    have you explored the emulation options?
    Wine is no solution at all. The gameplay is extremely choppy. I can try using Parallels, but I don't know well it will work. Bootcamp is another option. I just hate the fact that I will have restart the computer every time I want to login. This was one advantage that STO had over Star Wars Battlefront. I also have a laptop HP, but STO doesn't run as smoothly on that as my Mac. Finally, the screen on that laptop is puny compared to my 27" iMac. Thanks a lot Cryptic.
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    salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    have you explored the emulation options?
    Wine is no solution at all. The gameplay is extremely choppy. I can try using Parallels, but I don't know well it will work. Bootcamp is another option. I just hate the fact that I will have restart the computer every time I want to login. This was one advantage that STO had over Star Wars Battlefront. I also have a laptop HP, but STO doesn't run as smoothly on that as my Mac. Finally, the screen on that laptop is puny compared to my 27" iMac. Thanks a lot Cryptic.
    So wait, you already have boot camp installed? Nice. Your problem is solved.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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    samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Your random and unsupported claims of you making them money do not help your argument at all. Facts are facts.
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    salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Your random and unsupported claims of you making them money do not help your argument at all. Facts are facts.
    Yes. The Mac Client probably cost about the same amount of money to support as the Windows client did, yet made disproportionately less revenue due to low usage. Since we don't have hard numbers, I'll choose to believe that the Cryptic did this because of math and not prejudice.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    salazarraze wrote: »
    devencombs wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    have you explored the emulation options?
    Wine is no solution at all. The gameplay is extremely choppy. I can try using Parallels, but I don't know well it will work. Bootcamp is another option. I just hate the fact that I will have restart the computer every time I want to login. This was one advantage that STO had over Star Wars Battlefront. I also have a laptop HP, but STO doesn't run as smoothly on that as my Mac. Finally, the screen on that laptop is puny compared to my 27" iMac. Thanks a lot Cryptic.
    So wait, you already have boot camp installed? Nice. Your problem is solved.
    Yes, but like I said, restarting the computer is a pain in the TRIBBLE. But it's not just about me. What about the other Mac users who haven't installed Bootcamp? To make that work, they all have to go buy Windows for $120. Not everyone is willing to do that.
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    salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    salazarraze wrote: »
    devencombs wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    have you explored the emulation options?
    Wine is no solution at all. The gameplay is extremely choppy. I can try using Parallels, but I don't know well it will work. Bootcamp is another option. I just hate the fact that I will have restart the computer every time I want to login. This was one advantage that STO had over Star Wars Battlefront. I also have a laptop HP, but STO doesn't run as smoothly on that as my Mac. Finally, the screen on that laptop is puny compared to my 27" iMac. Thanks a lot Cryptic.
    So wait, you already have boot camp installed? Nice. Your problem is solved.
    Yes, but like I said, restarting the computer is a pain in the TRIBBLE. But it's not just about me. What about the other Mac users who haven't installed Bootcamp? To make that work, they all have to go buy Windows for $120. Not everyone is willing to do that.
    First World Problems.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,528 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    devencombs wrote: »
    Mac users like myself and thousands of others were playing the game, though I cannot prove it because they took down the Mac support forums. No, money was not the issue, because we were making them money. Period.

    Income is not profit.

    Sell 1,000 cell phones for $1 each. If they cost you $100 to manufacture you've now lost $99,000.

    Pay $200,000 a year in developer salaries for $100,000 in Mac player income and you've now lost $100,000.

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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    C'mon, we were already paying for the game in the first place. Why take it away?
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    thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada
    thekodanarmada#7342
         Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    Eh. Macintosh is a dead technology line. It's not like they make STO for the Amiga platform either.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,528 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    C'mon, we were already paying for the game in the first place. Why take it away?

    Iconians.

    Either that, or not wanting to lose money.
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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    Okay, I'm done defending myself against a bunch of cynics. No amount of facts will convince you to show at some consideration. Instead, all I get are insults and putdowns. The fact is that Mac users were invited into the game in 2014 and now we have been unceremoniously cut off. If it was going to lose Cryptic money, then they shouldn't have introduced the Mac client in the first place. But since they made the client anyway, they had no business cutting us off.
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    salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    Okay, I'm done defending myself against a bunch of cynics. No amount of facts will convince you to show at some consideration.
    Your supposed facts are not well supported and you choose to ignore the larger picture.
    devencombs wrote: »
    Instead, all I get are insults and putdowns.
    It's not personal, it's just plain math. You have chosen to ignore the logic in these helpful responses.
    devencombs wrote: »
    The fact is that Mac users were invited into the game in 2014 and now we have been unceremoniously cut off. If it was going to lose Cryptic money, then they shouldn't have introduced the Mac client in the first place. But since they made the client anyway, they had no business cutting us off.
    Cryptic was nice enough to introduce a system for Mac users. Mac users repaid them by not supporting the game enough to justify the continuation of the Mac client. The blame rests with your fellow Mac users that chose to not use the client and/or spend money.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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    thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada
    thekodanarmada#7342
         Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    I played a Star Trek game on a Commodore 64 too and feel that developers should continue to expend resources supporting that platform FOREVER because they did it once.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,528 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    If it was going to lose Cryptic money, then they shouldn't have introduced the Mac client in the first place. But since they made the client anyway, they had no business cutting us off.

    You're saying that if a business tries something new, and it fails, they are obligated to keep doing it forever anyway?

    Really?
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    devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    Like I said before, you guys are all cynics. If the game started as a Mac version, and then introduced a PC client that was cut off in a couple of years, how would you feel?
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    salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    Like I said before, you guys are all cynics. If the game started as a Mac version, and then introduced a PC client that was cut off in a couple of years, how would you feel?
    It doesn't matter how we feel. Facts are facts. You have boot camp. You have windows. You have everything you need to play the game. Really, there's nothing for you to be upset over.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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