yeah, but in the attempt a lot of people have been killed because of it in these things, was there really any point to two heroes fighting as if they were villains. i mean superman can hear people in distress and go out to save then and bat man fights evil, why would both do the opposite of what they are?
yeah, its not for me, i used to watch some superman and batman a long time ago before 2000 when i was a kid and then the new adventures of superman, i guess im still just trying to wrap my mind around how these two could end up being the biggest hypocrites in the super hero world.
While I don't follow comics as much as I used to, watching Batman "evolve" has him definitely picking up the mantle of "only Human amongst Giants"...
I mean, name any other hero who's got a suit of anti-Superman level armor and decides to shelve it for 99% of the time? Or a suit of powered armor and shelves it, period. That's a large part of my belief that he's staying as "human" as he can amidst the "release" of super powers...
And then look at some of Batman's comic arcs - there's a Justice League one (actually represented in those older cartoons, if my Netfilx doesn't fail me) where he writes "anti-hero contingency plans" but watches them get stolen and subverted against the super heroes...
So, there's Batty's impetuous to fight...
Then look at Man of Steel. In this one, Supes is not insta-portrayed as the "shining beacon of humanity in a Kryptonian body", movie ends with him having shot down a drone and telling the Army General to "trust him some" as he flies off (presumably) to the Fortress of Solitude.
No shining beacon + general distrust by humanity some + general issues over involvement in trashing Metropolis + "Contingency Mode" Batman = fight.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
yeah, but in the attempt a lot of people have been killed because of it in these things, was there really any point to two heroes fighting as if they were villains. i mean superman can hear people in distress and go out to save then and bat man fights evil, why would both do the opposite of what they are?
yeah, its not for me, i used to watch some superman and batman a long time ago before 2000 when i was a kid and then the new adventures of superman, i guess im still just trying to wrap my mind around how these two could end up being the biggest hypocrites in the super hero world.
While I don't follow comics as much as I used to, watching Batman "evolve" has him definitely picking up the mantle of "only Human amongst Giants"...
I mean, name any other hero who's got a suit of anti-Superman level armor and decides to shelve it for 99% of the time? Or a suit of powered armor and shelves it, period. That's a large part of my belief that he's staying as "human" as he can amidst the "release" of super powers...
And then look at some of Batman's comic arcs - there's a Justice League one (actually represented in those older cartoons, if my Netfilx doesn't fail me) where he writes "anti-hero contingency plans" but watches them get stolen and subverted against the super heroes...
So, there's Batty's impetuous to fight...
Then look at Man of Steel. In this one, Supes is not insta-portrayed as the "shining beacon of humanity in a Kryptonian body", movie ends with him having shot down a drone and telling the Army General to "trust him some" as he flies off (presumably) to the Fortress of Solitude.
No shining beacon + general distrust by humanity some + general issues over involvement in trashing Metropolis + "Contingency Mode" Batman = fight.
Pretty much. In this reality the public hasn't had a reason to trust Superman really. But they did have a major disaster caused by Kryptonians.
Well, the reviews I've read certainly don't inspire me to watch it...
To be fair, I remember many, many, many moons ago when Gene Shalit of the Today show out of NYC panned Star Wars calling it along the lines of a "terrible film... badly directed" and "would go nowhere"....
That's not to say any of the reviews for Batfleck v Superman are wrong.
Well, the reviews I've read certainly don't inspire me to watch it...
To be fair, I remember many, many, many moons ago when Gene Shalit of the Today show out of NYC panned Star Wars calling it along the lines of a "terrible film... badly directed" and "would go nowhere"....
That's not to say any of the reviews for Batfleck v Superman are wrong.
This was in one of the reviews:
And that's ultimately the most disappointing aspect of Batman v Superman: The movie is supposed to set the tone for an entire slew of DC Comics superhero films. Suicide Squad comes out in August. Wonder Woman is out next year, followed by the first Justice League film. And while on one hand Batman v Superman should leave us worried for the future, on the other it's already made those upcoming films look better — not because it achieved some new height of superhero filmmaking but because it, and Snyder, discovered the floor.
I think that says it all (unless Suicide Squad finds itself in the basement...) ;p
I think that says it all (unless Suicide Squad finds itself in the basement...) ;p
I don't believe the goal WB has for BvS is to make an Academy Award winning piece of art. I think WB/DC are hoping for it to be a blockbuster popcorn flick that makes enough box office to justify the other DCU films not already in production.
With that said, WB has to be nervous that Deadpool way outperformed Man of Steel at the box office.
Exactly... It's 'testing the water'/'setting the bar', but according to that review, it's certainly not setting it very high, and "Well, we did better than [insert steaming pile here]..." really isn't much of a goal to aspire to One review said that it needed to make at least $120M, so it'll be interesting to see how it does do in terms of tidket sales, but also in terms of the reviews
I believe this is going to be covered in much more intricate detail in Captain America: Civil War. General Ross is discussing those events in the most recent trailer.
That's fair enough I suppose - but that franchise is quite far into its 'continuity' prior to making these explanations. Does the DC Universe deserve as much leeway?
I think that says it all (unless Suicide Squad finds itself in the basement...) ;p
I don't believe the goal WB has for BvS is to make an Academy Award winning piece of art. I think WB/DC are hoping for it to be a blockbuster popcorn flick that makes enough box office to justify the other DCU films not already in production.
With that said, WB has to be nervous that Deadpool way outperformed Man of Steel at the box office.
I'm pretty sure their goal is not to make more than Deadpool, but to make a profit. As long as they do that I don't think they're really going to feel bad about the movie. Besides... Deadpool set a REALLY high mark... I don't think Fox has any idea how to beat that.
IMO, many reviews/ratings are directly based on expectations. If a movie has low expectations, like Deadpool, then exceeds those expectations, it tends to get rave reviews. If a movie has high expectations, then disappoints, it tends to get bashed. So while some critics try to be objective, many are based more on the level of expectation going in, rather than an objective analysis of the movie itself.
BTW, that's not a "defense" of BvS. I haven't seen it yet, although I have to admit that at this point I'm not expecting it to be very good.
I'm seeing it this weekend, but all these bad reviews don't give me much confidence. Hoping I can lower my expectations enough to enjoy it. If there's punching, then I guess I'm good. If there's word bubbles, that would be a different kind of good.
I'm seeing it this weekend, but all these bad reviews don't give me much confidence. Hoping I can lower my expectations enough to enjoy it. If there's punching, then I guess I'm good. If there's word bubbles, that would be a different kind of good.
Enh, I always filter reviews to separate the feeling of the reviewer from the comments they make. "I didn't like it." may be valid feedback, but it tells me nothing about the movie.
I actually just saw the film and...I'm both impressed and disappointed.
Ever since the movie started production, I felt the concept of the plot was simple enough: Batman vs. Superman. The idea is simple, yet intriguing to the fanbase. But as the film went into production and secrets started spilling and trailers started dropping, I became aware that the film was trying too hard to establish their cinematic universe. I have gone on record on Nerdist and Geek and Sundry's Facebook pages as saying that the film seems to be Zack Snyder's ego fluffing wager that he could make a universe in two films to Marvel's seven. The constant addition of secondary characters, the inclusion of three villains in addition to the BvS throwdown the endless stream of theories about the Kryptonian settlers and how they impacted the world. But despite all of that, I still clung to the hope that maybe the film would actually be good. Maybe they would be able to fit all these things into one film smoothly. Maybe it'll be a huge success and DC can show that the Nolan Batman series wasn't a fluke.
But I was so RIGHT the first time. And I HATE that I was. This film is a bloated mess of great scenes and moments that, individually, are amazing. Great direction of actors, great cinematography, great dialogue, AMAZING action. The scenes are wonderfully done.....individually. Together, in a single film, it is an utter hodge podge of half sequences and scenes going nowhere. The opening credits are a quick guide to Batman's origin (lol Dead Waynes again) that seem to lead to the possibility that Bruce is dealing with his parent's deaths. He even narrates his inspirational meeting of the bats in the soon to be bat cave like he's talking to a therapist. Okay, he's dealing with his loss.
That's a great step to begin on. He'll give us some insight on that day and how it affected his psyche in the prese-nope now it's the attack on Metropolois, Superman is fighting Zod and Bruce is in the city trying to find his dad (Yeah, Thomas Wayne survives the shooting. What the heck?) buildings are falling down, devastation everywhere. Bruce saves a kid from debris of the fight and he looks up and spies Superman and Zod in mid fight and there's this look of contempt on Bruce's face.
Okay, he sees his superior. Now he'll obviously want to know where this super man came from. Why he's here, what's his reason to exist, how does he exi-nope now we're with Lois in Africa talking to a WARLORD who ends up finding out that her photographer is a CIA agent using Lois as a cover to track him. They kill the agent and the Warlord goes to interrogate Lois alone and his right hand man starts killing the Warlord's men. It's out of nowhere and then they just BAIL, don't even kill the warlord or anything and Superman just SHOWS UP and flat out takes the Warlord down in the blink of an eye (literally, the takedown is a second long and if you blink you miss it.) and we cut to Bruce clearing up the slums of Gotham looking for a bad guy named the White Portuguese who is smuggling a dirty bomb into Gotham but later we find out it's not a guy but a boat and there's no bomb but a contraband of Kryptonite and...
Yeah, it hops around like this for two thirds of the film. It makes zero sense. And there's a dream sequence half way through the film concerning Darkseid and without spoiling the following scene, let's just say the dream sequence is totally Snyder blowing his horn about his "genius" and how great he is at making a universe. It's awfully edited and the narrative keeps starting and stopping with no pay off.
But then we reach the third act. Specifically the first third of the third act: The actual fight with Batman and Superman. This is the best part of the film because it is hands down, the best fight EVER. Great acting from Caviel and Affleck, the sequences flow together, the story stays consistent for the fight and Batman gets some AMAZING shots in. He really shows his intellectual advantage with his traps and gadgets.
But as soon as things get juicy and amazing, cut to Doomsday. Yeah, Doomsday shows up as dub ya tee eff as it gets, then Wonder Woman shows up and they all band together too cleanly to fight Doomsday and it pretty much follows the storyline of every first Doomsday appearance without spoiling anything and it returns to the bunny hopping plotlines like the start.
This film is so wonderfully made by it's many threads, but as a single film, it falls flat. The ending especially feels too confusing as Lex Luthor talks about Darkseid with ZERO evidence of knowing Darkseid or reason to. He should not have any idea that Darkseid exists or that the dream happened but he just DOES! Just like "Ok, whatever, it's all connected, TRIBBLE it, DCCU!"
This film is not a Batman & Robin, but it's a far cry from Deadpool or The Dark Knight. I would definitely advise waiting for the Free on Demand option or a one dollar a day rental from Redbox/Netflix. Here's hoping Suicide Squad will be better.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Thanks for such a comprehensive review It sounds, as if this film is like the description used for the recent Fantastic Four, as being an 'hour and a half trailer for a movie which never happens'...
I just don't feel all excited on watching it yet. A new Batman with no story since they stopped the trilogy. Adding the others into the mix that should had their own starting movie. This is where I like the Marvels. They actually had their own movie to be in and intermix with the team ups. Doomsday looks like TRIBBLE. Nothing like the Comics. From the pics I saw. So I will watch it later at a cheaper price, or wait to rent it from Red Box.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Well, I just got home from seeing it. And, to my surprise, I actually really liked it. Maybe the fact that I was expecting it to be so bad helped, but honestly I enjoyed it enough that I'm ready to see it again. I liked the overall story, I was pleasantly surprised by Batfleck, and I actually really liked Wonder Woman. The one thing I didn't like was Jesse Eisenberg as Luthor. IMO, he felt more like the Joker than Lex Luthor. But all in all, I enjoyed it and look forward to seeing it again.
Well, I just got home from seeing it. And, to my surprise, I actually really liked it. Maybe the fact that I was expecting it to be so bad helped, but honestly I enjoyed it enough that I'm ready to see it again. I liked the overall story, I was pleasantly surprised by Batfleck, and I actually really liked Wonder Woman. The one thing I didn't like was Jesse Eisenberg as Luthor. IMO, he felt more like the Joker than Lex Luthor. But all in all, I enjoyed it and look forward to seeing it again.
Curious to see how people react to Batfleck. Because I recall back in the first Tim Burton Batman movie of the late 80's, when people found out Michael freakin' "Beetlejuice" Keaton was going to be Bruce Wayne, people were flying around in a fit. But he did a good turn and after he left, IMO, he was the best Batman actor until Christian "Raspy Voice" Bale took the role over a decade later. The funny part was that Keaton did not have the looks one imagined a suave Bruce Wayne would have, yet he did great.
But then again, those mid 90s Batman films were awful spectacles and Batman Forever was the final shot to the forehead to that era of the Batman movie franchise. To my horror, they did even worse with Batman & Robin
Yeah Batman doesn't go around trying to kill criminals, that's definitely a core part of his character. But he doesn't necessarily want to save them. The case of the Joker actually seems to be an exception because Batman feels responsible for turning him into the Joker.
Honestly I like the look Gadot has as WW so I'd see it for that alone.
I was a little biased about a new look WW, but from the pics i think gadot nailed it she looks the warrior yet still femrnam...damnit she looked pretty.
Anyways since my town doesnt have a theatre wasnt able to se it.OR DEADPOOL!!! but i looked ok from the trailers
He was essentially handed a 'bowl of gold', the best two most recognizable superhero's (and arguably most loved) in history.
And he threw it all way for what? For 'superhuman' speed of advancing a franchise.
Trying to 'outdo' the (pretty well laid out films) that Marvel has put forth over a sensible period of time in order to make things make sense; Synder 'tried' to fit 3 or 4 films into one overly long film.
Let's see: Batman Vs Superman (would have been PERFECT). Had he left out: Wonderwoman - Lex Luthor, Doomsday, Darksied.
I now officially hate Snyder: Not for the film - (it was 'ok' overall) but I think he has pretty much 'ended' the DC Universe in cinema terms.
Comments
While I don't follow comics as much as I used to, watching Batman "evolve" has him definitely picking up the mantle of "only Human amongst Giants"...
I mean, name any other hero who's got a suit of anti-Superman level armor and decides to shelve it for 99% of the time? Or a suit of powered armor and shelves it, period. That's a large part of my belief that he's staying as "human" as he can amidst the "release" of super powers...
And then look at some of Batman's comic arcs - there's a Justice League one (actually represented in those older cartoons, if my Netfilx doesn't fail me) where he writes "anti-hero contingency plans" but watches them get stolen and subverted against the super heroes...
So, there's Batty's impetuous to fight...
Then look at Man of Steel. In this one, Supes is not insta-portrayed as the "shining beacon of humanity in a Kryptonian body", movie ends with him having shot down a drone and telling the Army General to "trust him some" as he flies off (presumably) to the Fortress of Solitude.
No shining beacon + general distrust by humanity some + general issues over involvement in trashing Metropolis + "Contingency Mode" Batman = fight.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
My character Tsin'xing
This was in one of the reviews:
I think that says it all (unless Suicide Squad finds itself in the basement...) ;p
Exactly... It's 'testing the water'/'setting the bar', but according to that review, it's certainly not setting it very high, and "Well, we did better than [insert steaming pile here]..." really isn't much of a goal to aspire to
That's fair enough I suppose - but that franchise is quite far into its 'continuity' prior to making these explanations. Does the DC Universe deserve as much leeway?
My character Tsin'xing
BTW, that's not a "defense" of BvS. I haven't seen it yet, although I have to admit that at this point I'm not expecting it to be very good.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I just put on Superman TAS "World's Finest", best Batman/Superman crossover ever done.
Ha, hopefully just the first two. I don't want to poison a new generation with the awful 3rd & 4th films
Also... he was apparently Christopher Reeve's idea. O-o'
My character Tsin'xing
Ever since the movie started production, I felt the concept of the plot was simple enough: Batman vs. Superman. The idea is simple, yet intriguing to the fanbase. But as the film went into production and secrets started spilling and trailers started dropping, I became aware that the film was trying too hard to establish their cinematic universe. I have gone on record on Nerdist and Geek and Sundry's Facebook pages as saying that the film seems to be Zack Snyder's ego fluffing wager that he could make a universe in two films to Marvel's seven. The constant addition of secondary characters, the inclusion of three villains in addition to the BvS throwdown the endless stream of theories about the Kryptonian settlers and how they impacted the world. But despite all of that, I still clung to the hope that maybe the film would actually be good. Maybe they would be able to fit all these things into one film smoothly. Maybe it'll be a huge success and DC can show that the Nolan Batman series wasn't a fluke.
But I was so RIGHT the first time. And I HATE that I was. This film is a bloated mess of great scenes and moments that, individually, are amazing. Great direction of actors, great cinematography, great dialogue, AMAZING action. The scenes are wonderfully done.....individually. Together, in a single film, it is an utter hodge podge of half sequences and scenes going nowhere. The opening credits are a quick guide to Batman's origin (lol Dead Waynes again) that seem to lead to the possibility that Bruce is dealing with his parent's deaths. He even narrates his inspirational meeting of the bats in the soon to be bat cave like he's talking to a therapist. Okay, he's dealing with his loss.
That's a great step to begin on. He'll give us some insight on that day and how it affected his psyche in the prese-nope now it's the attack on Metropolois, Superman is fighting Zod and Bruce is in the city trying to find his dad (Yeah, Thomas Wayne survives the shooting. What the heck?) buildings are falling down, devastation everywhere. Bruce saves a kid from debris of the fight and he looks up and spies Superman and Zod in mid fight and there's this look of contempt on Bruce's face.
Okay, he sees his superior. Now he'll obviously want to know where this super man came from. Why he's here, what's his reason to exist, how does he exi-nope now we're with Lois in Africa talking to a WARLORD who ends up finding out that her photographer is a CIA agent using Lois as a cover to track him. They kill the agent and the Warlord goes to interrogate Lois alone and his right hand man starts killing the Warlord's men. It's out of nowhere and then they just BAIL, don't even kill the warlord or anything and Superman just SHOWS UP and flat out takes the Warlord down in the blink of an eye (literally, the takedown is a second long and if you blink you miss it.) and we cut to Bruce clearing up the slums of Gotham looking for a bad guy named the White Portuguese who is smuggling a dirty bomb into Gotham but later we find out it's not a guy but a boat and there's no bomb but a contraband of Kryptonite and...
Yeah, it hops around like this for two thirds of the film. It makes zero sense. And there's a dream sequence half way through the film concerning Darkseid and without spoiling the following scene, let's just say the dream sequence is totally Snyder blowing his horn about his "genius" and how great he is at making a universe. It's awfully edited and the narrative keeps starting and stopping with no pay off.
But then we reach the third act. Specifically the first third of the third act: The actual fight with Batman and Superman. This is the best part of the film because it is hands down, the best fight EVER. Great acting from Caviel and Affleck, the sequences flow together, the story stays consistent for the fight and Batman gets some AMAZING shots in. He really shows his intellectual advantage with his traps and gadgets.
But as soon as things get juicy and amazing, cut to Doomsday. Yeah, Doomsday shows up as dub ya tee eff as it gets, then Wonder Woman shows up and they all band together too cleanly to fight Doomsday and it pretty much follows the storyline of every first Doomsday appearance without spoiling anything and it returns to the bunny hopping plotlines like the start.
This film is so wonderfully made by it's many threads, but as a single film, it falls flat. The ending especially feels too confusing as Lex Luthor talks about Darkseid with ZERO evidence of knowing Darkseid or reason to. He should not have any idea that Darkseid exists or that the dream happened but he just DOES! Just like "Ok, whatever, it's all connected, TRIBBLE it, DCCU!"
This film is not a Batman & Robin, but it's a far cry from Deadpool or The Dark Knight. I would definitely advise waiting for the Free on Demand option or a one dollar a day rental from Redbox/Netflix. Here's hoping Suicide Squad will be better.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Curious to see how people react to Batfleck. Because I recall back in the first Tim Burton Batman movie of the late 80's, when people found out Michael freakin' "Beetlejuice" Keaton was going to be Bruce Wayne, people were flying around in a fit. But he did a good turn and after he left, IMO, he was the best Batman actor until Christian "Raspy Voice" Bale took the role over a decade later. The funny part was that Keaton did not have the looks one imagined a suave Bruce Wayne would have, yet he did great.
But then again, those mid 90s Batman films were awful spectacles and Batman Forever was the final shot to the forehead to that era of the Batman movie franchise. To my horror, they did even worse with Batman & Robin
My character Tsin'xing
I was a little biased about a new look WW, but from the pics i think gadot nailed it she looks the warrior yet still femrnam...damnit she looked pretty.
Anyways since my town doesnt have a theatre wasnt able to se it.OR DEADPOOL!!! but i looked ok from the trailers
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My response: Zack Synder is an TRIBBLE.
He was essentially handed a 'bowl of gold', the best two most recognizable superhero's (and arguably most loved) in history.
And he threw it all way for what? For 'superhuman' speed of advancing a franchise.
Trying to 'outdo' the (pretty well laid out films) that Marvel has put forth over a sensible period of time in order to make things make sense; Synder 'tried' to fit 3 or 4 films into one overly long film.
Let's see: Batman Vs Superman (would have been PERFECT). Had he left out: Wonderwoman - Lex Luthor, Doomsday, Darksied.
I now officially hate Snyder: Not for the film - (it was 'ok' overall) but I think he has pretty much 'ended' the DC Universe in cinema terms.