Make it cost dilithium or some other in-game currency instead
I would make it cost in game currency or free.
The problem is that most ships have a spec that will fit the ship. If your spec does not fit the ship then you either pay to change the spec and pay for the ship and hope you like the new playstyle or you just pass on the ship. In the end what I have seen is most people don't want to pay to respec and so many ships that cryptic puts out will get very few sales and very few will fly them.
I suspect that part of the reason that most MMOs make respecs cheap or free is to tell other stuff since people are more willing to try things out.
I am not sure why people want to buy so many respecs?
Do you like how bridge officer powers work now, how you can change them and not lose the old skills?
Do you like how traits work now, how you can change the active traits for free and not lose the other ones?
Do you like being able to change the gear on your current ship without paying a fee or losing the old gear?
Many of us like to get new ships, or try a cannon or torpedo build instead of BFAW, or try a drain build instead of a particle gens build, or ....
Changing those does not cost $5, AND you do not lose your old skills. With captain skills it costs $5 to change, then another $5 to change back if you don't like the new skills. That's even if you want to stay with one ship and set of skills.
If you'd like to be able to change to different ships and skills for playing different content, you're out of luck. $5 per swap, forever.
Actually I've suggested partial respecs on a number of occasions, I've also suggeetsed options such as using the millions of expertise we have sitting around doing nothing to pay for them.
Expressing the cost in dilithium is pointless if it remains the same price as it is now which is over the top, that is the reason why most people refuse to respec now changing the system won't change that unless they drastically reduce the cost.
If you don't agree with the part apart people not experimenting I'm afraid you haven't been reading a lot of the comments on here that have been stating just that, that a lot of people will just wait for someone to come up with a generic tree and copy that then forget about it.
Actually I've suggested partial respecs on a number of occasions, I've also suggeetsed options such as using the millions of expertise we have sitting around doing nothing to pay for them.
Expressing the cost in dilithium is pointless if it remains the same price as it is now which is over the top, that is the reason why most people refuse to respec now changing the system won't change that unless they drastically reduce the cost.
If you don't agree with the part apart people not experimenting I'm afraid you haven't been reading a lot of the comments on here that have been stating just that, that a lot of people will just wait for someone to come up with a generic tree and copy that then forget about it.
indeed, as I just said in my earlier comment.
that's what I will be doing for sure and I have seen many other comments in other threads where many other players have said the same.
and as I said this is exactly what cryptic didn't want it to happen according to the live stream but as things stand thats what will happen.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Yes it does, to completely discourage people from using the system in any way shape or form
Look, if you want to completely ignore the rest of that reacion you quoted, that's fine to me. But I think I made it pretty clear why there's a certain cost for full respecs. And that's not to discourage anyone, but to keep it necessary to have different characters.
I doubt it's going to discouraging anyone anyway, as it won't be a very wise idea not to use the system
If this is the case, then why is it an industry standard for respecs to be available for in-game currency? STO is the ONLY game I know of that charges real money for respecs
Honestly, most people in the game would probably do what others advised them to do anyway. There's not much difference between skills and builds in general, with regard to people's willingness to experiment. From what I've seen of the playerbase, this willingness to experiment has been low, at least since Delta Rising. So blaming this limited willingness to experiment solely on the skill revamp is not fair imo.
As for other games: I have no idea. I don't play any other games, let alone other MMO's so I cannot tell why STO would do things different than those games. Nor am I particularly interested in such comparisons, as they don't really matter to what is happening in this game.
The fact that it may (or may not? Again I don't know this and I'm in no position to determine this) work in other games doesn't necessarily mean it would work in this game. Tactical is already dominating STO. Allowing tactical officers to change to a heavily Sci or Eng focussed build with zero or near-zero costs would only strengthen their position further and that's the last thing we need.
I'm all for free partial respecs so that swapping tactical skills for other tactical skills (for example) would be free, but killing the last diversity we have by removing any need to have dedicated characters for something? No thanks.
A tactical officer who wants to swap between a carrier and a non-carrier, or from energy weapons to projectile weapons should be able to do so without any costs, or at least without Zen being involved. But that tactical officer should not be able to change from, simply put, a FAW-build to a Control or Partigen build with no extra costs. It'd basically mean that you could excel in everything, whenever you want. Where's the need for alts or different careers in such a system?
I'm all for free partial respecs so that swapping tactical skills for other tactical skills (for example) would be free, but killing the last diversity we have by removing any need to have dedicated characters for something? No thanks.
A tactical officer who wants to swap between a carrier and a non-carrier, or from energy weapons to projectile weapons should be able to do so without any costs, or at least without Zen being involved. But that tactical officer should not be able to change from, simply put, a FAW-build to a Control or Partigen build with no extra costs. It'd basically mean that you could excel in everything, whenever you want. Where's the need for alts or different careers in such a system?
If the goal is to make career types more distinct, I'd say it makes more sense to follow other MMOs and lock out some skills by career. For example, only Science captains are allowed to take the final point in control and drain. With that, tacs can't be top of the charts in science builds any more.
Probably only eng and sci skill trees need these limits since tacs being the only ones with APB and FOMM means sci and eng captains can never out-DPS them using tactical skills.
There's nothing wrong with the respec tokens an sich. There's something wrong with having to 'buy' each and every single skill point individually, though, instead of having a single 'Commit' button. The latter inevitably means you'll need more of the former. And that is sad.
I'm all for free partial respecs so that swapping tactical skills for other tactical skills (for example) would be free, but killing the last diversity we have by removing any need to have dedicated characters for something? No thanks.
A tactical officer who wants to swap between a carrier and a non-carrier, or from energy weapons to projectile weapons should be able to do so without any costs, or at least without Zen being involved. But that tactical officer should not be able to change from, simply put, a FAW-build to a Control or Partigen build with no extra costs. It'd basically mean that you could excel in everything, whenever you want. Where's the need for alts or different careers in such a system?
If the goal is to make career types more distinct, I'd say it makes more sense to follow other MMOs and lock out some skills by career. For example, only Science captains are allowed to take the final point in control and drain. With that, tacs can't be top of the charts in science builds any more.
Probably only eng and sci skill trees need these limits since tacs being the only ones with APB and FOMM means sci and eng captains can never out-DPS them using tactical skills.
That sounds good, but in STO this is mostly done in the ground part of the game. And we're seeing the opposite thing happening here: more universal kit modules, certain skills like vascular regenerator or shield regenerator becoming available to all careers (and those will likely be more useful outside their 'standard' career now that things like Medic, Modification specialist etc. have been removed and replaced with 'kit effectiveness' or something like that) etc.
It seems to me that, sadly, we won't see more distinction between different careers, quite the opposite is happening in fact. That's why I would prefer to at least keep what little distinction we have now.
Make it cost dilithium or some other in-game currency instead
In case you haven't noticed yet, borticuscryptic voted for the second option, to reduce the cost of zen, with which I can live as well. I just hope he isn't just refering to the discount for when the new system hits holodeck.
Anyhow, I just hope that something is actually gonna happen, everyone would benefit from it, even cryptic.
Honestly, most people in the game would probably do what others advised them to do anyway. There's not much difference between skills and builds in general, with regard to people's willingness to experiment. From what I've seen of the playerbase, this willingness to experiment has been low, at least since Delta Rising. So blaming this limited willingness to experiment solely on the skill revamp is not fair imo.
As for other games: I have no idea. I don't play any other games, let alone other MMO's so I cannot tell why STO would do things different than those games. Nor am I particularly interested in such comparisons, as they don't really matter to what is happening in this game.
The fact that it may (or may not? Again I don't know this and I'm in no position to determine this) work in other games doesn't necessarily mean it would work in this game. Tactical is already dominating STO. Allowing tactical officers to change to a heavily Sci or Eng focussed build with zero or near-zero costs would only strengthen their position further and that's the last thing we need.
I'm all for free partial respecs so that swapping tactical skills for other tactical skills (for example) would be free, but killing the last diversity we have by removing any need to have dedicated characters for something? No thanks.
A tactical officer who wants to swap between a carrier and a non-carrier, or from energy weapons to projectile weapons should be able to do so without any costs, or at least without Zen being involved. But that tactical officer should not be able to change from, simply put, a FAW-build to a Control or Partigen build with no extra costs. It'd basically mean that you could excel in everything, whenever you want. Where's the need for alts or different careers in such a system?
The comparison to other games matters because they specifically stated in the livestream that they were trying to make the skill system more like the industry standard to aid new players who are already familiar with that standard, and the simple fact is STO is the ONLY game to charge cash for respecs.
As far as career diversity, this really requires a career revamp to resolve, which is beyond the scope of 11.5.
Make it cost dilithium or some other in-game currency instead
The experimentation with different playstyles and coming out from comfort zones that Bort so eagerly promotes and hopes new skilltree will help to promote won't happen (for majority of players, at least) as long as respec tokens cost ZEN.
Honestly, most people in the game would probably do what others advised them to do anyway. There's not much difference between skills and builds in general, with regard to people's willingness to experiment. From what I've seen of the playerbase, this willingness to experiment has been low, at least since Delta Rising. So blaming this limited willingness to experiment solely on the skill revamp is not fair imo.
At no point did I blame the lack of willingness to experiment on the skill revamp.
Players currently find a tree to copy and stick with it due to the large cost of respeccing. The revamp has been sold as an attempt to get people experimenting with builds but, this simply will not happen unless the cost is drastically reduced. All that will happen will people will do exactly as they are now, which is what I have already said.
Make it cost dilithium or some other in-game currency instead
Objectively speaking respecs are not really worth much, since the game is so easy you can do anything you want no matter what you have in skill tree set, but the game does need more dil/EC sinks so it could have some nominal cost anyway.
Decrease its zen cost (Optional: specify the amount your thinking it should be instead)
Maybe lower the Zen cost.
I would also like if there was some way to earn Respecs in game directly. Maybe Events or Tour of Duty Admiralty missions could also drop a Respec token. Something with a relatively low frequency to happen, but something that can be repeated.
If the Anniversary, Winter and Summer Event would also drop one respec token, there would also be a reason to replay the event on multiple characters, but not a pressing one.
If it was put in the Mirror Invasion, Crystalline Catastrophe and the Breach as part of the final event reward, it would be a reason to play this event specifically on alt so he could get a respec (and a ton of Dilithium, of course.)
If it was put as a reward for the 10th Tour of Duty Mission for Klingon, Federation or Romulan campaign, then it would be repeatable, but only very slowly (but faster than the special events, I think.)
If Cryptic wants to avoid repeatable missions:
If it was put on the final mission of an Admiralty campaign, it wouldn't be repeatable, but it would be away to get at least one respec per alt.
It could be part of the completion of a reputation. (Problem would be all the people that already finished some or all of the reputations, the would not gain anything from it, unless they find a way to give it back retroactively.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Decrease its zen cost (Optional: specify the amount your thinking it should be instead)
Respec Token: 50 Zen
Make it CHEAP so that you lower the bar to doing REPEATED respecs. At 500 Zen, that's like a whole month of subscription to respec ONCE. That's hardly an incentive to ... experiment ... with builds.
But at 50 Zen a respec? Even at an outrageous price of 500 Dilithium per Zen, that's still just 25,000 Dilithium ... which is ~3(ish) days worth of refining, and therefore completely doable "on a budget" while still earning PWE the $$$ they crave.
Heck, at 50 Zen per respec, they might even see more money flowing through respecs in the future than they have historically, even though the price per respec has been drastically reduced. How?
Honestly, most people in the game would probably do what others advised them to do anyway. There's not much difference between skills and builds in general, with regard to people's willingness to experiment. From what I've seen of the playerbase, this willingness to experiment has been low, at least since Delta Rising. So blaming this limited willingness to experiment solely on the skill revamp is not fair imo.
As for other games: I have no idea. I don't play any other games, let alone other MMO's so I cannot tell why STO would do things different than those games. Nor am I particularly interested in such comparisons, as they don't really matter to what is happening in this game.
The fact that it may (or may not? Again I don't know this and I'm in no position to determine this) work in other games doesn't necessarily mean it would work in this game. Tactical is already dominating STO. Allowing tactical officers to change to a heavily Sci or Eng focussed build with zero or near-zero costs would only strengthen their position further and that's the last thing we need.
I'm all for free partial respecs so that swapping tactical skills for other tactical skills (for example) would be free, but killing the last diversity we have by removing any need to have dedicated characters for something? No thanks.
A tactical officer who wants to swap between a carrier and a non-carrier, or from energy weapons to projectile weapons should be able to do so without any costs, or at least without Zen being involved. But that tactical officer should not be able to change from, simply put, a FAW-build to a Control or Partigen build with no extra costs. It'd basically mean that you could excel in everything, whenever you want. Where's the need for alts or different careers in such a system?
The comparison to other games matters because they specifically stated in the livestream that they were trying to make the skill system more like the industry standard to aid new players who are already familiar with that standard, and the simple fact is STO is the ONLY game to charge cash for respecs.
As far as career diversity, this really requires a career revamp to resolve, which is beyond the scope of 11.5.
Agree. Making industry standard skill system but with non-industry pricing. And again, I think overall, this is a great opportunity for Cryptic to snatch up other revenue lanes by making the pricing at least closer to industry standard. Lower zen cost would be my second choice.
I don't know how I feel about free mind you. I do agree with some poster there should be some degree of consequence for your choices. I'd be interesting to say the least if they were free.
Objectively speaking respecs are not really worth much, since the game is so easy you can do anything you want no matter what you have in skill tree set, but the game does need more dil/EC sinks so it could have some nominal cost anyway.
Currently, your probably right. The issue is moving forward that may not necessarily be the case with the new skill revamp.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Make it cost dilithium or some other in-game currency instead
A dil/ec cost would be fairer than the current and would create build diversity
Take for instance now - If I was a new player, with limited budget want to experiment to find a setup to suit my tastes when it costs a week or two of dil refining for the zen?
Heck no, I'd look up builds, find a cookie cutter dps setup and use that as I -know- it works as once set, it need not be redone again
Lets say, it costs 4000d or a million ec a respec (spitballing)- with such a price you could experiment - Sure, you might make a bad build, but you can save the dil/ec and redo it
Want to try a new weapon type, like torps? respec as needed
I've been in this position a long, long time - I've set up builds and have had to adhere to them (to a degree) as I cannot/don't want to afford a respec - this limits my enjoyment as I'd love to do something else with said character, but chucking two and a bits worth of key priced zen just to rearrange a few points is not worth the price
I would make the respec token equal the price of a master key, or 125 Zen.
I think it should also be sold by a vendor in the game for 5 million EC so that people do not necessarily have to spend real money to buy Zen or use refined Dil to exchange for Zen. It also acts like a EC sink in the game as a way to remove excess EC from the game's economy.
Last time I checked, a master key sells for about 4.7 million EC on the Exchange.
First off:
Poll is biased. There's no "raise the cost" option...
Secondly:
Those ranting about respecs not being available via in-game currency, please double-check if the Dilithium exchange still exists, please. With that, anything/everything available in the C-Store is available via in-game currency, the amount of said in-game currency, however, is at the whims of the playerbase, not the developers.
Thusly, if you want "dil-based respecs" to be cheaper, tell the players to sell their zen, cheaper (via not buying any at all...)
Thirdly:
With all this talk of "loadouts for skills" and "free changes like traits", all I'm hearing is "I want my cake and to eat it, as well". Roll one tac for each f(r)action, and enjoy everything the game has to offer... in space, at least...
And this is why I'm halfheartedly joking that respec costs need to go up. Each respec denies Cryptic the revenue (and metrics) from:
Extra character slot
Levelling of Alt, and any "incidental" purchases to make this... easier.
Upgrading of Alt(s) stuffs.
Alts needing to be in the "lesser played queues" because they're lacking in reputation and specilizations
Granted, this "might" reduce the amount(s) of experimentation - out of sheer work to try a new skill tree - and lead to either overgeneralization or the "one true specialists build" - but it also increases player difficulty (omg, you're not kitted out to fly that cruiser. Prepare to need more personal skills and foresight to get that ship levelled up) and/or desire to play (and give lots of metrics from) alts...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Leave them as they are. I'm a lifetime subscriber, have been for years.
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
Leave them as they are. I'm a lifetime subscriber, have been for years.
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
I'm a lifetime sub too, and honestly I don't see how charging in-game currency for respecs would impact our free respecs at all. We would still have them, they aren't going away, and EC or Dil won't be deducted from our characters for them. We don't lose anything.
Sure, free respecs might not be as valuable in terms of zen saved, but currently they are completely worthless anyway, so nothing would change there either. I mean I've been a lifetime sub since beta and I don't think I've ever used a single one of my free respecs.
Secondly:
Those ranting about respecs not being available via in-game currency, please double-check if the Dilithium exchange still exists, please. With that, anything/everything available in the C-Store is available via in-game currency, the amount of said in-game currency, however, is at the whims of the playerbase, not the developers.
Thusly, if you want "dil-based respecs" to be cheaper, tell the players to sell their zen, cheaper (via not buying any at all...)
The entire point of the dil exchange is to monetize everything, so dil exchange =/= respecs for ingame currency.
Leave them as they are. I'm a lifetime subscriber, have been for years.
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
I'm a lifetime sub too, and honestly I don't see how charging in-game currency for respecs would impact our free respecs at all. We would still have them, they aren't going away, and EC or Dil won't be deducted from our characters for them. We don't lose anything.
Sure, free respecs might not be as valuable in terms of zen saved, but currently they are completely worthless anyway, so nothing would change there either. I mean I've been a lifetime sub since beta and I don't think I've ever used a single one of my free respecs.
Secondly:
Those ranting about respecs not being available via in-game currency, please double-check if the Dilithium exchange still exists, please. With that, anything/everything available in the C-Store is available via in-game currency, the amount of said in-game currency, however, is at the whims of the playerbase, not the developers.
Thusly, if you want "dil-based respecs" to be cheaper, tell the players to sell their zen, cheaper (via not buying any at all...)
The entire point of the dil exchange is to monetize everything, so dil exchange =/= respecs for ingame currency.
i am a lifer also and have never used any respecs either, having this new skill system wont change that for me at all, I will wait for a good skill set up to be posted as there will inevitably very soon will, copy that and that will be the only interaction I will have with the skill system, I suspect many other players will do the same.
that may be expressly what cryptic don't want to see but with the current system that is what will undoubtedly happen.
when others talk about respecs being available via in game currency I think they are thinking along the lines of a set price say 10k dilithium.
sure you can exchange dilithium for zen but this is subject to player supply and demand so the price for respecs could fluctuate wildly and players would rather have them at a fixed dil price.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Leave them as they are. I'm a lifetime subscriber, have been for years.
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
blocking other from benefits, so your benefits stay exclusive to you, is one of the big problems in this world, whether its virtual or real goods.
Leave them as they are. I'm a lifetime subscriber, have been for years.
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
blocking other from benefits, so your benefits stay exclusive to you, is one of the big problems in this world, whether its virtual or real goods.
Nope. I worked, saved, stopped buying Zen, in order to afford a Lifetime sub. It's not wrong for me to want to preserve the benefits that come with it, else I might as well just as PWE for a refund. Heck, while we're giving away the respec tokens, let's give away the Vet ships...and sure, may as well give away the EC cap, the account bank, the additional dil refining cap, the inventory slots...
But my previous point stands. If you want to try out a build/skill setup, but don't want to shell for a respec, then there's always Tribble.
Leave them as they are. I'm a lifetime subscriber, have been for years.
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
blocking other from benefits, so your benefits stay exclusive to you, is one of the big problems in this world, whether its virtual or real goods.
Nope. I worked, saved, stopped buying Zen, in order to afford a Lifetime sub. It's not wrong for me to want to preserve the benefits that come with it, else I might as well just as PWE for a refund. Heck, while we're giving away the respec tokens, let's give away the Vet ships...and sure, may as well give away the EC cap, the account bank, the additional dil refining cap, the inventory slots...
But my previous point stands. If you want to try out a build/skill setup, but don't want to shell for a respec, then there's always Tribble.
If you really think the free respec is a huge part of the lifetime sub, then you seriously overvalue respecs. As I said above in my reply to your earlier message, I haven't used a single one of mine in the 6 years I've been a lifer, the only bonuses I care about are the ones that are actually worth a damn: playable borg, the stipend, and the vet ships.
Comments
The problem is that most ships have a spec that will fit the ship. If your spec does not fit the ship then you either pay to change the spec and pay for the ship and hope you like the new playstyle or you just pass on the ship. In the end what I have seen is most people don't want to pay to respec and so many ships that cryptic puts out will get very few sales and very few will fly them.
I suspect that part of the reason that most MMOs make respecs cheap or free is to tell other stuff since people are more willing to try things out.
Do you like how bridge officer powers work now, how you can change them and not lose the old skills?
Do you like how traits work now, how you can change the active traits for free and not lose the other ones?
Do you like being able to change the gear on your current ship without paying a fee or losing the old gear?
Many of us like to get new ships, or try a cannon or torpedo build instead of BFAW, or try a drain build instead of a particle gens build, or ....
Changing those does not cost $5, AND you do not lose your old skills. With captain skills it costs $5 to change, then another $5 to change back if you don't like the new skills. That's even if you want to stay with one ship and set of skills.
If you'd like to be able to change to different ships and skills for playing different content, you're out of luck. $5 per swap, forever.
Expressing the cost in dilithium is pointless if it remains the same price as it is now which is over the top, that is the reason why most people refuse to respec now changing the system won't change that unless they drastically reduce the cost.
If you don't agree with the part apart people not experimenting I'm afraid you haven't been reading a lot of the comments on here that have been stating just that, that a lot of people will just wait for someone to come up with a generic tree and copy that then forget about it.
indeed, as I just said in my earlier comment.
that's what I will be doing for sure and I have seen many other comments in other threads where many other players have said the same.
and as I said this is exactly what cryptic didn't want it to happen according to the live stream but as things stand thats what will happen.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
If this is the case, then why is it an industry standard for respecs to be available for in-game currency? STO is the ONLY game I know of that charges real money for respecs
As for other games: I have no idea. I don't play any other games, let alone other MMO's so I cannot tell why STO would do things different than those games. Nor am I particularly interested in such comparisons, as they don't really matter to what is happening in this game.
The fact that it may (or may not? Again I don't know this and I'm in no position to determine this) work in other games doesn't necessarily mean it would work in this game. Tactical is already dominating STO. Allowing tactical officers to change to a heavily Sci or Eng focussed build with zero or near-zero costs would only strengthen their position further and that's the last thing we need.
I'm all for free partial respecs so that swapping tactical skills for other tactical skills (for example) would be free, but killing the last diversity we have by removing any need to have dedicated characters for something? No thanks.
A tactical officer who wants to swap between a carrier and a non-carrier, or from energy weapons to projectile weapons should be able to do so without any costs, or at least without Zen being involved. But that tactical officer should not be able to change from, simply put, a FAW-build to a Control or Partigen build with no extra costs. It'd basically mean that you could excel in everything, whenever you want. Where's the need for alts or different careers in such a system?
If the goal is to make career types more distinct, I'd say it makes more sense to follow other MMOs and lock out some skills by career. For example, only Science captains are allowed to take the final point in control and drain. With that, tacs can't be top of the charts in science builds any more.
Probably only eng and sci skill trees need these limits since tacs being the only ones with APB and FOMM means sci and eng captains can never out-DPS them using tactical skills.
That sounds good, but in STO this is mostly done in the ground part of the game. And we're seeing the opposite thing happening here: more universal kit modules, certain skills like vascular regenerator or shield regenerator becoming available to all careers (and those will likely be more useful outside their 'standard' career now that things like Medic, Modification specialist etc. have been removed and replaced with 'kit effectiveness' or something like that) etc.
It seems to me that, sadly, we won't see more distinction between different careers, quite the opposite is happening in fact. That's why I would prefer to at least keep what little distinction we have now.
Anyhow, I just hope that something is actually gonna happen, everyone would benefit from it, even cryptic.
The comparison to other games matters because they specifically stated in the livestream that they were trying to make the skill system more like the industry standard to aid new players who are already familiar with that standard, and the simple fact is STO is the ONLY game to charge cash for respecs.
As far as career diversity, this really requires a career revamp to resolve, which is beyond the scope of 11.5.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
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At no point did I blame the lack of willingness to experiment on the skill revamp.
Players currently find a tree to copy and stick with it due to the large cost of respeccing. The revamp has been sold as an attempt to get people experimenting with builds but, this simply will not happen unless the cost is drastically reduced. All that will happen will people will do exactly as they are now, which is what I have already said.
I would also like if there was some way to earn Respecs in game directly. Maybe Events or Tour of Duty Admiralty missions could also drop a Respec token. Something with a relatively low frequency to happen, but something that can be repeated.
If the Anniversary, Winter and Summer Event would also drop one respec token, there would also be a reason to replay the event on multiple characters, but not a pressing one.
If it was put in the Mirror Invasion, Crystalline Catastrophe and the Breach as part of the final event reward, it would be a reason to play this event specifically on alt so he could get a respec (and a ton of Dilithium, of course.)
If it was put as a reward for the 10th Tour of Duty Mission for Klingon, Federation or Romulan campaign, then it would be repeatable, but only very slowly (but faster than the special events, I think.)
If Cryptic wants to avoid repeatable missions:
If it was put on the final mission of an Admiralty campaign, it wouldn't be repeatable, but it would be away to get at least one respec per alt.
It could be part of the completion of a reputation. (Problem would be all the people that already finished some or all of the reputations, the would not gain anything from it, unless they find a way to give it back retroactively.)
Make it CHEAP so that you lower the bar to doing REPEATED respecs. At 500 Zen, that's like a whole month of subscription to respec ONCE. That's hardly an incentive to ... experiment ... with builds.
But at 50 Zen a respec? Even at an outrageous price of 500 Dilithium per Zen, that's still just 25,000 Dilithium ... which is ~3(ish) days worth of refining, and therefore completely doable "on a budget" while still earning PWE the $$$ they crave.
Heck, at 50 Zen per respec, they might even see more money flowing through respecs in the future than they have historically, even though the price per respec has been drastically reduced. How?
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Agree. Making industry standard skill system but with non-industry pricing. And again, I think overall, this is a great opportunity for Cryptic to snatch up other revenue lanes by making the pricing at least closer to industry standard. Lower zen cost would be my second choice.
I don't know how I feel about free mind you. I do agree with some poster there should be some degree of consequence for your choices. I'd be interesting to say the least if they were free.
Currently, your probably right. The issue is moving forward that may not necessarily be the case with the new skill revamp.
Take for instance now - If I was a new player, with limited budget want to experiment to find a setup to suit my tastes when it costs a week or two of dil refining for the zen?
Heck no, I'd look up builds, find a cookie cutter dps setup and use that as I -know- it works as once set, it need not be redone again
Lets say, it costs 4000d or a million ec a respec (spitballing)- with such a price you could experiment - Sure, you might make a bad build, but you can save the dil/ec and redo it
Want to try a new weapon type, like torps? respec as needed
I've been in this position a long, long time - I've set up builds and have had to adhere to them (to a degree) as I cannot/don't want to afford a respec - this limits my enjoyment as I'd love to do something else with said character, but chucking two and a bits worth of key priced zen just to rearrange a few points is not worth the price
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I think it should also be sold by a vendor in the game for 5 million EC so that people do not necessarily have to spend real money to buy Zen or use refined Dil to exchange for Zen. It also acts like a EC sink in the game as a way to remove excess EC from the game's economy.
Last time I checked, a master key sells for about 4.7 million EC on the Exchange.
Poll is biased. There's no "raise the cost" option...
Secondly:
Those ranting about respecs not being available via in-game currency, please double-check if the Dilithium exchange still exists, please. With that, anything/everything available in the C-Store is available via in-game currency, the amount of said in-game currency, however, is at the whims of the playerbase, not the developers.
Thusly, if you want "dil-based respecs" to be cheaper, tell the players to sell their zen, cheaper (via not buying any at all...)
Thirdly:
With all this talk of "loadouts for skills" and "free changes like traits", all I'm hearing is "I want my cake and to eat it, as well". Roll one tac for each f(r)action, and enjoy everything the game has to offer... in space, at least...
And this is why I'm halfheartedly joking that respec costs need to go up. Each respec denies Cryptic the revenue (and metrics) from:
Extra character slot
Levelling of Alt, and any "incidental" purchases to make this... easier.
Upgrading of Alt(s) stuffs.
Alts needing to be in the "lesser played queues" because they're lacking in reputation and specilizations
Granted, this "might" reduce the amount(s) of experimentation - out of sheer work to try a new skill tree - and lead to either overgeneralization or the "one true specialists build" - but it also increases player difficulty (omg, you're not kitted out to fly that cruiser. Prepare to need more personal skills and foresight to get that ship levelled up) and/or desire to play (and give lots of metrics from) alts...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
One of the perks I get for being a lifetime subscriber is that every time I level I get a free Skill respec token.
If this was to be removed as one of my perks, what would you replace it with?
If the issue is that you're having issues experimenting with a build, do what I do and what a lot of other players do: Copy your character to Tribble and mess with your skills there, find what works and then make the respec on Holodeck. Don't make a Vet/LTS benefit free to the general playerbase.
Proud Member of the Operational Support (Bug Hunter) Team
I'm a lifetime sub too, and honestly I don't see how charging in-game currency for respecs would impact our free respecs at all. We would still have them, they aren't going away, and EC or Dil won't be deducted from our characters for them. We don't lose anything.
Sure, free respecs might not be as valuable in terms of zen saved, but currently they are completely worthless anyway, so nothing would change there either. I mean I've been a lifetime sub since beta and I don't think I've ever used a single one of my free respecs.
The entire point of the dil exchange is to monetize everything, so dil exchange =/= respecs for ingame currency.
i am a lifer also and have never used any respecs either, having this new skill system wont change that for me at all, I will wait for a good skill set up to be posted as there will inevitably very soon will, copy that and that will be the only interaction I will have with the skill system, I suspect many other players will do the same.
that may be expressly what cryptic don't want to see but with the current system that is what will undoubtedly happen.
when others talk about respecs being available via in game currency I think they are thinking along the lines of a set price say 10k dilithium.
sure you can exchange dilithium for zen but this is subject to player supply and demand so the price for respecs could fluctuate wildly and players would rather have them at a fixed dil price.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
UNREFINED DILITHIUM
or far less Zen (like, 125zen)
blocking other from benefits, so your benefits stay exclusive to you, is one of the big problems in this world, whether its virtual or real goods.
Nope. I worked, saved, stopped buying Zen, in order to afford a Lifetime sub. It's not wrong for me to want to preserve the benefits that come with it, else I might as well just as PWE for a refund. Heck, while we're giving away the respec tokens, let's give away the Vet ships...and sure, may as well give away the EC cap, the account bank, the additional dil refining cap, the inventory slots...
But my previous point stands. If you want to try out a build/skill setup, but don't want to shell for a respec, then there's always Tribble.
Proud Member of the Operational Support (Bug Hunter) Team
If you really think the free respec is a huge part of the lifetime sub, then you seriously overvalue respecs. As I said above in my reply to your earlier message, I haven't used a single one of mine in the 6 years I've been a lifer, the only bonuses I care about are the ones that are actually worth a damn: playable borg, the stipend, and the vet ships.